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Ben Goessling@GoesslingStrib
Say the Vikings gave Kyle Rudolph a league-minimum $930K base salary in 2019, converted the remaining $6.345M of his salary to a signing bonus and kept his bonuses ($250K roster, $100K workout) intact. Same amount of cash for Rudolph, with ~$5M in cap saving for Vikings.

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Any interest in McCoy?

Should the Vikings figure out a way to sign Gerald McCoy? https://thevikingage.com/2019/05/22/should-minnesota-vikings-sign-mccoy/

Sure, just cut Rudolph and sign McCoy.

That oughta touch off another 26 pages of Rudolph arguments.

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Once the end of the 2020 season rolls around, I hope we can look back on a SB win. If it's as ugly cap/roster wise as it appears, that would be the saving grace. Also hope they blow things up rapidly rather than try to hold on while living through 5-11 seasons. Getting 4-5 eventual solid starters out of this past draft will go a long ways to jump-starting a rebuild.

First things first, we have a very good roster for 2019 and ideally a 'time to prove it' mentality.

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Any interest in McCoy?

Should the Vikings figure out a way to sign Gerald McCoy? https://thevikingage.com/2019/05/22/should-minnesota-vikings-sign-mccoy/

Sure, just cut Rudolph and sign McCoy.

That oughta touch off another 26 pages of Rudolph arguments.

Obviously, the key McCoy issue is how many projectile vomit first downs barf he prevented. Nevermind schemes, opponents, down/distances, his 10 teammates, tendencies, etc.

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ORIGINAL: Last Word Troll

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: bohumm



Community college elite logic = I'll never admit I'm wrong and/or I'll never let go of this bone

I've committed one crime vs I've committed ten crimes without context: ten crimes is worse. If the one crime is murder and the ten crimes are shoplifting: one crime is worse. Injecting detail when there's none = nonsense.

Original point: "To me 63-625 is more impressive than 50-600". That is all. There is no underlying detail. 599 of the 600 yards were not on one catch. The 63 did not yield more first downs than the 50 because THERE WERE NO ACTUAL CATCHES IN THIS COMPARISON.

This is about one poster getting his needs met (?) by manifesting online; it is not even about the relative merits of Kyle Rudolph at his current salary cap figure.

Thanks for the sanity check. I thought when I posted some actual numbers from TEs that it would show the variability in first downs.

I should have known better.

You should have.

He's the guy who tries to be right while seeking strokes and ends up the laughingstock, but at least he is our franchise laughingstock.

Still, I'd trade him for a different laughingstock plus a laughingstock to be named later.

Whatever. I had to read the post again to figure out what the hell you were talking about. I noticed the same 12 yard average on 50 for 600, but it's obvious he just threw out 50 receptions as a minimum expectation. Talk about twisting things and being DISHONEST DF. A lie is the intent to decieve and it certainly looks like your intent was to deceive. Your post makes me angry. I expect better from you.

Whatever. The OP was not lacking in either research or honesty. YOU WERE TRYING TO TWIST THINGS. The OP never said anything about 12 YPR. he just threw out some numbers for this year. should have said 60-600 so people like you wouldn't twist his meaning.


I could be wrong but I don't think you are this clueless. Were any of the stats or contract numbers posted wrong? You in letting your anti-Rudy bias cloud your judgment took a simple 50-600 hypothetical numbers for this season and Twisted it into making a false and ridiculous clain against the OP who did some very good research and was not dishonest in any way whatsoever. Now you are trying very unsuccessfully to save face. Cut your losses DF.

Show me one stat the OP posted that was wrong. The 50-600 was just a hypothetical. DF tried to twist the OP's words to discredit him in an attempt to win the RUDY war. I'm calling him out for it. CV Boot doesn't even post here and DF's attack on his character is completely wrong and uncalled for. Nobody at Daily Norseman had a problem with either his research or integrity.

Pager you make a good point but DF didn't. In defense of the OP on the 7 million thing is IIRC his base salary this year is 7.25 million and that would be somewhat reasonable to round down to 7, but better if he didn't. You found a flaw DF fabricated one.
EDIT: LMAO. I just looked it up and you and I were both wrong Pager. Rudy's base salary is $7.275 not 7.25 and total compensation for this season is $7.625 not 7.65. Close enough an honest mistake.

The value is to show how Rudy is fairly compensated according to the market and possibly a bargain. It seems that on Talk Vikes familiarity is breeding contempt as we don't appreciate him IMO like we should.

The $7.625 just shows that you were wrong like 7.275 shows I was wrong. I'm sure both of us had
good intentions. In general we should give people the benefit of the doubt. I feel DF's post was in bad faith using a cheap trick to try to win rather than honest discussion.


Good summary as well. To me 63-625 is more impressive than 50-600. I prefer the 13 additional catches at 9.9 YPR compared to less at 12.
I still believe DF acted in bad faith.


DF didn't even say anything about 50-600 which were not looked up. They were just hypothetical numbers presented that actually diminished what Rudy has been doing. The OP never said anything about Rudy getting 12 YPR. DF fabricated that. You have been fair. I don't get you supporting DF's BS but you like him better than me so I think that explains it.

Absolutely I attacked his character. He deserves it in this case. Absolutely DF attacked the OP's character either by calling him sloppy or dishonest. Neither was true based on the 12 YPR that the OP never stated. Pager pointed out how the OP did fudge his numbers rounding down on Rudy's contract. It wasn't needed as his arguments stand up just fine using the real numbers of 7.625.

Because the OP never said those were numbers that Rudy ever put up. DF FABRICATED that the OP CLAIMED Rudy got 12 YPR. DF was creating a straw man.

13 more catches at 10 rounded per catch is going to create about 7 more first downs. 63-625 is superior to 50-600.

OP never said that Rudy ever put up those numbers.

OK done discussing DF's trickery, cheap shotting or totally valid criticism. I felt he acted in very bad faith.

that's the average per catch. 10 yard receptions produce or lead to first downs most of the time. Some will be 15 some will be 5. reasonable guess 7 additional first downs. I think you are projecting those 12 additional catches adding up to the 25 yards. That isn't the way it works.

You're clearly not getting this. we aren't talking total yards we are talking yards per reception. 10*63 =630 not 730 you are correct. however it's 13 more plays at ten yards per play. about 7 more first downs.

63-625 averages 10 YPR. It only accumulates 25 additional yards but it's 13 more receptions at 10 YPR. Maybe this will help. Lets take average out. 50 catches of 12 YPC 600 YARDS. We fully agree on that right. 63 receptions at 10 YPR 630 YARDS right. 63-50 = 13 right? That makes 13 more plays of 10 yards, but only accumulating 30 additional total yards.

never said it did. IT'S 13 ADDITIONAL PLAYS of 10 yards each but you subtract the additional 2*50 from the total yards. I haven't been talking total yards here. I've been talking additional ten yard catches.


You are correct. That is not the argument. The argument is more plays at 10 ypc is better than less plays at 12 ypc. The 13 extra good plays more than makes up for less plays at a better average. You've heard of possession receivers right. Keep the chains moving. That's what I'm talking about. Yes REGIS, FINAL ANSWER.

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I've always wondered what pathological looks like. Ladies and gentlemen, I present Mr. Pathological (this is just one chapter of individual posts in an incessant series where he argues anything for negative strokes):

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I have read a couple things about Elflein. First that he has been "working out in the weight room- not the training room" and how he has "gotten bigger". That sounds positive, to me, like he will be playing at guard and specifically left guard.

I'm not sure how left and right guard are different other than being on different sides. Certainly many backups practice at both positions. My sense is that you look for more power out of the RG and more agility out of the LG, but I might be wrong because doesn't the LG usually go against the nose tackle and the RG blocks the 3- technique? There are different defensive fronts, though, with 3/4 and 4/3 formations and in passing downs the tackles on the defense are more mobile. That must be one of the challenges of being a guard- that you have some diversity week to week and even within the game as to whom you are going up against. Obviously, this year the demands for the guards will be to move well laterally along the line in the outside zone scheme requiring some athleticism and good footwork.

Some of you who played on the line could perhaps elaborate more. I would appreciate it if you would and of course you could correct me if I am not seeing it correctly.

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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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the vikings should just ask rudolph to adjust his 2019 pay to create some cap space at no consequence to him and/or throw him a bone of $100k to do it - i believe that kendricks did it for free a couple of weeks ago...is there another player whose existing deal works well for a cap adjustment?....

we shouldn't deal with rudy's contract until next year...let him play it out and we'll see where we are next season, but definitely keep him on the team this season...i don't want to owe rudy anything after this year - we're going to need that cap space next year, too...sometimes you just have to stop dealing, and take a breath...there is just no good 'new deal' for us with rudy right now....

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

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the vikings should just ask rudolph to adjust his 2019 pay to create some cap space at no consequence to him and/or throw him a bone of $100k to do it - i believe that kendricks did it for free a couple of weeks ago...is there another player whose existing deal works well for a cap adjustment?....

we shouldn't deal with rudy's contract until next year...let him play it out and we'll see where we are next season, but definitely keep him on the team this season...i don't want to owe rudy anything after this year - we're going to need that cap space next year, too...sometimes you just have to stop dealing, and take a breath...there is just no good 'new deal' for us with rudy right now....

All Kendricks did was agree to have base salary converted to a signing bonus. He gets the same money, just gets it in a different way. Rudolph is in a completely different boat. He has no guaranteed money coming to him. That's why a multi year deal is needed. He agrees to lower his cap hit this year and in return gets some guaranteed money in future years.

One problem with the whole thing is that the NFL seems to have very little in terms of enforceable tampering policies. Multiple teams have contacted Rudolph's agent. That's why he knows other teams are interested.