RE: General Vikes Talk (Full Version)

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Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 7:31:38 PM)

I have seen several videos showing Thielen being impossible to cover.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155553647658512384

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155631354744332288




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 7:33:31 PM)

Have you seen this? It made me laugh out loud.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155438077898317824




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 8:05:49 PM)

https://thevikingage.com/2019/07/28/minnesota-vikings-camp-2019-takeaways-day-3/




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 8:20:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Mata'afa can not be on the field for running plays.

The #Vikings did one goal line situational period and Dalvin Cook effortlessly ran into the end zone. Kline had a great block against Mata'afa to open a lane. (Vikings Corner on Twitter)


Certainly not in a goal line situation. IMO a 275 lb 3 technique can hold up in the running game, as long as he is kept fresh.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 8:53:32 PM)

I disagree. He's going to be pushed around with a power running attack.




kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 9:20:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Mata'afa can not be on the field for running plays.

The #Vikings did one goal line situational period and Dalvin Cook effortlessly ran into the end zone. Kline had a great block against Mata'afa to open a lane. (Vikings Corner on Twitter)

I think many people have a misconception about Cook being some kind of scat back with all speed and no power. He was an exceptional short yardage runner in college and given blocking will be the same in the pros. It's fine if Mattison spells him a bit, but Cook should not be forgotten in short yardage. I already know there will be a come back on this that it saves him from injury. I get that.




Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 9:37:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I disagree. He's going to be pushed around with a power running attack.

Hercules will have Tom Johnson's role. Designated pass rusher.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 9:50:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I disagree. He's going to be pushed around with a power running attack.


That's different than saying he can't be on the field for running plays. Not all teams feature a power running attack.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 9:59:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I disagree. He's going to be pushed around with a power running attack.

Hercules will have Tom Johnson's role. Designated pass rusher.


Johnson also started 15 games in 2017 in a top 2 rushing defense.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 10:08:44 PM)

I am an advocate for more rotations along the defensive line. I see Mata'afa as a pass rushing specialist. If the scouts saw him as a 3 down lineman he would have been drafted. That's what I believe, but the Packers drafted perhaps a similar player in the first round. We will see how they get used. If I'm wrong, I will admit it and be happy for Mata'afa and the Vikings.

Edit: When I read and compare Rashan Gary with Hercules Mata'afa, at least when I look at their combine profiles, I see Gary as bigger and faster. His standing broad jump was a full foot farther than Mata'afa despite being 2" taller and nearly 20 lbs heavier. That's why one was a first rounder and the other a ufa. Still, let's see who is a better Pro.

Tom Johnson was 6'3" and 288 lbs. He was a closer to being the standard size for a 3 tech. Still, I think the Vikings used him more as a pass rusher too.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 10:28:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I am an advocate for more rotations along the defensive line. I see Mata'afa as a pass rushing specialist. If the scouts saw him as a 3 down lineman he would have been drafted. That's what I believe, but the Packers drafted perhaps a similar player in the first round. We will see how they get used. If I'm wrong, I will admit it and be happy for Mata'afa and the Vikings.

Edit: When I read and compare Rashan Gary with Hercules Mata'afa, at least when I look at their combine profiles, I see Gary as bigger and faster. His standing broad jump was a full foot farther than Mata'afa despite being 2" taller and nearly 20 lbs heavier. That's why one was a first rounder and the other a ufa. Still, let's see who is a better Pro.

Tom Johnson was 6'3" and 288 lbs. He was a closer to being the standard size for a 3 tech. Still, I think the Vikings used him more as a pass rusher too.


Aaron Donald 6'1" 280 lbs. And yes that does mean I think Mata'afa is the next Aaron Donald.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 10:47:14 PM)

Interesting that you bring him up. I read this about Aaron Donald when he was coming out of college.

WEAKNESSES Marginal height and frame is nearly maxed out. Hands are more active than strong -- could play with more pop and power. Overpowered in the run game and ground up by double teams. Gets snared and controlled by bigger, longer blockers. Not a two-gap player. Has some tweener traits -- lacks ideal length and bend to play outside.

Donald is even shorter than Mata'afa (6'1") but plays at 280 lbs. That's pretty close to where Mata'afa has moved up to. Again, Donald also had better speed and jumping scores in the combine even though he was much heavier at the time. Everyone likes the players who are fast for their size like Anthony Barr. Mata'afa seems to have the short area quickness though. I bet he's elite in the 10 yard dash. I was saying the same for Alexander Mattison too.

I checked the numbers for Aaron Donald and he did not make many tackles outside of his sacks. (close to one tackle per game) Of course, sacks don't say everything about a player because the offensive blocking scheme has to game plan for him and I'm sure he forced some early or rushed passes. Nevertheless, Donald is not really great at tackling running backs. Linebackers make most of the tackles on running backs, so in fairness, you can't judge a DT by that one number. I know in college Mata'afa did make tackles behind the line of scrimmage a lot and sometimes it was a running back.

I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about Mata'afa in the next few weeks. If he becomes a player who plays on any down I will be happy to eat crow, but I will have to stand in line behind all of those NFL scouts who must have come to the same conclusion.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 10:58:53 PM)

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/7/28/8934180/minnesota-vikings-training-camp-july-28-day-3-recap




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 11:04:15 PM)

I probably am remiss for not mentioning that Aaron Donald had 20.5 sacks last year and so obviously if he might be a bit deficient in defending the run that can be overlooked. It may not even be fair to compare Mata'afa with Donald. He might be the best defensive player in the NFL.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 11:11:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I probably am remiss for not mentioning that Aaron Donald had 20.5 sacks last year and so obviously if he might be a bit deficient in defending the run that can be overlooked. It may not even be fair to compare Mata'afa with Donald. He might be the best defensive player in the NFL.


But if he can't defend the run, why would he be on the field for running plays?




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/28/2019 11:33:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Interesting that you bring him up. I read this about Aaron Donald when he was coming out of college.

WEAKNESSES Marginal height and frame is nearly maxed out. Hands are more active than strong -- could play with more pop and power. Overpowered in the run game and ground up by double teams. Gets snared and controlled by bigger, longer blockers. Not a two-gap player. Has some tweener traits -- lacks ideal length and bend to play outside.

Donald is even shorter than Mata'afa (6'1") but plays at 280 lbs. That's pretty close to where Mata'afa has moved up to. Again, Donald also had better speed and jumping scores in the combine even though he was much heavier at the time. Everyone likes the players who are fast for their size like Anthony Barr. Mata'afa seems to have the short area quickness though. I bet he's elite in the 10 yard dash. I was saying the same for Alexander Mattison too.

I checked the numbers for Aaron Donald and he did not make many tackles outside of his sacks. (close to one tackle per game) Of course, sacks don't say everything about a player because the offensive blocking scheme has to game plan for him and I'm sure he forced some early or rushed passes. Nevertheless, Donald is not really great at tackling running backs. Linebackers make most of the tackles on running backs, so in fairness, you can't judge a DT by that one number. I know in college Mata'afa did make tackles behind the line of scrimmage a lot and sometimes it was a running back.

I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about Mata'afa in the next few weeks. If he becomes a player who plays on any down I will be happy to eat crow, but I will have to stand in line behind all of those NFL scouts who must have come to the same conclusion.


It appears that all of those NFL scouts have already been proven wrong even if Mata'afa is never anything more than a pass rush specialist.

And I'm not saying that he will be a full time 3 down player. I'm really not expecting him to be. But slightly undersized 3 techs can play the run effectively if they have fresh legs.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 8:58:11 AM)

I bet we are all interested in this. I heard that Davis had a couple of drops, too.

Bisi Johnson, Stefon Diggs and Davion Davis all consistently won their battles in the 1-on-1 session

(Sean Norman on Twitter)




kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 11:26:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I probably am remiss for not mentioning that Aaron Donald had 20.5 sacks last year and so obviously if he might be a bit deficient in defending the run that can be overlooked. It may not even be fair to compare Mata'afa with Donald. He might be the best defensive player in the NFL.

Donald is the best D Player in the NFL and possibly the best player overall.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 2:20:20 PM)

Brandon Zylstra and Jalyn Holmes are back for practice this afternoon. Jeff Badet is still out, along with all of the other players on PUP and NFI. #Vikings (Vikings Corner on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 2:29:40 PM)

Nothing earth shattering here.

https://www.skornorth.com/vikings-2/2019/07/everything-we-learned-in-week-1-of-vikings-camp/




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 4:42:46 PM)

Practice No. 4 just ended. A few players who stood out: Duke Thomas, Ade Aruna, Dakota Dozier, Danny Isidora and Reshard Cliett. Stay tuned for my notebook. #Vikings (Daniel House)




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 5:19:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I probably am remiss for not mentioning that Aaron Donald had 20.5 sacks last year and so obviously if he might be a bit deficient in defending the run that can be overlooked. It may not even be fair to compare Mata'afa with Donald. He might be the best defensive player in the NFL.


Not fair to who? The MVP who is on course for the Hall of Fame or the undrafted FA who has yet to play an NFL down?

Or not fair to the implied standards of the board?




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 5:28:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I bet we are all interested in this. I heard that Davis had a couple of drops, too.

Bisi Johnson, Stefon Diggs and Davion Davis all consistently won their battles in the 1-on-1 session

(Sean Norman on Twitter)



Go Bisi!

Seeing how Bisi is within an inch and a pound of DeAndre Hopkins begs the inevitable comparison.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 8:19:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Practice No. 4 just ended. A few players who stood out: Duke Thomas, Ade Aruna, Dakota Dozier, Danny Isidora and Reshard Cliett. Stay tuned for my notebook. #Vikings (Daniel House)


Maybe the new blocking scheme is a better fit for Isidora? Could be the next Randall McDaniel.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/29/2019 10:44:59 PM)

http://www.mnvikingscorner.com/2019/07/day-4-training-camp-notebook-vikings.html




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