quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Leber liked

Nick Olson

@NicholasJOlson

Pat Shurmur's first TD in 2017: Hurry up offense, trips right, play action boot, RG pulls, flood concept, Diggs wide open for the TD
Kevin Stefanski's first TD in 2018: Hurry up offense, trips right, play action boot, RG pulls, flood concept, Diggs wide open for the TD

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

I agree, Waynes relies on speed to recover and is not as good at locating the ball. None the less, one way or another Waynes is there when the ball arrives. Rhodes is also much better at jamming the receiver off the line. Waynes has a lot of work to do in that area. The covering the other team's #1 has been a bit overblown IMO. That has been more of a situational thing in games and has been employed less often as Waynes has improved. In all, I agree Rhodes is a legit #1 and in the top grouping of corners. I also think Waynes is a lot better than he is generally given credit for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

Every game I see Holton Hill play, I'm thinking that we won't be re-signing Waynes.

Waynes is OK but do we really need Rhodes, Hughes, Waynes, Alexander, and Hill? Nope. We sure don't. Waynes can go and we can draft another CB just NOT in rounds one or two.

Rhodes
Hughes
Hill
Alexander
Rookie/low-tier FA

That's plenty good.

Right.

I just don't think its smart value to pay Waynes what he's going to get when we have cheaper options.

What do you anticipate Waynes will cost?

He makes 9M this year.

That number *might* be a bit inflated as its his 4th year option, but there are 20 CBs averaging at least 9M/year and that number will likely rise next year.

So, he'll probably be in the 8-10M/year range would be my guess.

And PFF has always been down on Rhodes. There must be something he does that breaks their system. They had him ranked the #15 CB coming into this year - and that's coming off a year that he was named 1st team All-Pro.

Waynes is much improved, but Rhodes is WAY better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

Every game I see Holton Hill play, I'm thinking that we won't be re-signing Waynes.

Waynes is OK but do we really need Rhodes, Hughes, Waynes, Alexander, and Hill? Nope. We sure don't. Waynes can go and we can draft another CB just NOT in rounds one or two.

Rhodes
Hughes
Hill
Alexander
Rookie/low-tier FA

That's plenty good.

Right.

I just don't think its smart value to pay Waynes what he's going to get when we have cheaper options.

What do you anticipate Waynes will cost?

He makes 9M this year.

That number *might* be a bit inflated as its his 4th year option, but there are 20 CBs averaging at least 9M/year and that number will likely rise next year.

So, he'll probably be in the 8-10M/year range would be my guess.

And PFF has always been down on Rhodes. There must be something he does that breaks their system. They had him ranked the #15 CB coming into this year - and that's coming off a year that he was named 1st team All-Pro.

Waynes is much improved, but Rhodes is WAY better.

waynes is has a salary of about $2m this season and a cap hit of about $4m...next season is his 5th year option and he'll make $9m then....

now, we are not completely obligated to pick up that option for next season, but we do have to decide sometime early in 2019 - we could trade him....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Chris Tomasson
@christomasson
With Carolina losing, the #Vikings will clinch a wild-card playoff berth next weekend if Washington loses on Saturday at Tennessee, the Vikings win at Detroit at noon Sunday and Philadelphia loses at home against Houston at noon Sunday.

On the other hand, if Washington and Philly both win this week, Chicago becomes a must win for us because they play each other in week 17, one of them would finish 9-7.

I believe if we win out we are in.

If we don't we will need help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

I agree, Waynes relies on speed to recover and is not as good at locating the ball. None the less, one way or another Waynes is there when the ball arrives. Rhodes is also much better at jamming the receiver off the line. Waynes has a lot of work to do in that area. The covering the other team's #1 has been a bit overblown IMO. That has been more of a situational thing in games and has been employed less often as Waynes has improved. In all, I agree Rhodes is a legit #1 and in the top grouping of corners. I also think Waynes is a lot better than he is generally given credit for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

My question is ... could Waynes fetch a legit starting OL in the off-season?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

My question is ... could Waynes fetch a legit starting OL in the off-season?

i think he could...he's a solid #2 and could be a #1 - he's 6'-0" and ran a 4.23/40...plus, he's been developed by one of the best defensive minds in the game and the cb whisperer....

if waynes was made available i bet he'd be the most sought-after cb this offseason....

what about gruden and the raiders? - they've got gabe jackson and kelechi osemele locked up long-term for $9-$10m/yr each....

any interest?

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

My question is ... could Waynes fetch a legit starting OL in the off-season?

i think he could...he's a solid #2 and could be a #1 - he's 6'-0" and ran a 4.23/40...plus, he's been developed by one of the best defensive minds in the game and the cb whisperer....

if waynes was made available i bet he'd be the most sought-after cb this offseason....

what about gruden and the raiders? - they've got gabe jackson and kelechi osemele locked up long-term for $9-$10m/yr each....

any interest?

The problem is he doesn't have an attractive contract to other teams. Are teams going to give you full value for a guy that could leave?

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

Every game I see Holton Hill play, I'm thinking that we won't be re-signing Waynes.

Waynes is OK but do we really need Rhodes, Hughes, Waynes, Alexander, and Hill? Nope. We sure don't. Waynes can go and we can draft another CB just NOT in rounds one or two.

Rhodes
Hughes
Hill
Alexander
Rookie/low-tier FA

That's plenty good.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

My question is ... could Waynes fetch a legit starting OL in the off-season?

i think he could...he's a solid #2 and could be a #1 - he's 6'-0" and ran a 4.23/40...plus, he's been developed by one of the best defensive minds in the game and the cb whisperer....

if waynes was made available i bet he'd be the most sought-after cb this offseason....

what about gruden and the raiders? - they've got gabe jackson and kelechi osemele locked up long-term for $9-$10m/yr each....

any interest?

The problem is he doesn't have an attractive contract to other teams. Are teams going to give you full value for a guy that could leave?

that is true, but they could control him via 5th yr and franchise/transition tag and that might make waynes amenable to signing a new long-term deal - perhaps via sign and trade....

i think that it's doable...and we throw in treadwell....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

Of course he's an asset. He's a good player.

But where are you getting the money to sign him from?

Is having two really expensive CBs PLUS starting quality depth behind them more important than having a serviceable O-Line?

How about more important than a modern TE? Or a viable 3rd WR?

How about more important than having only Kendricks as a proven LBer (almost no way we can resign Waynes and Barr)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

Of course he's an asset. He's a good player.

But where are you getting the money to sign him from?

Is having two really expensive CBs PLUS starting quality depth behind them more important than having a serviceable O-Line?

How about more important than a modern TE? Or a viable 3rd WR?

How about more important than having only Kendricks as a proven LBer (almost no way we can resign Waynes and Barr)?

Because you need three quality corner starters and it's not unusual for one of them to be down, so quality depth is a must in a passers league.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

I would keep Richardson and launch Waynes, if it was up to me. Hill and Hughes would fill his spot without any letdown. Focus on the offensive and defensive lines and everything will get better.