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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Brad H
Again, it's all about how much room a guy has on his frame. You seem to be missing that element. Buxton had room. Bradbury does not.

I'm not missing anything Brad. Room on his frame is irrelevant. For the 10th time in this discussion BRADBURY DOESN'T NEED TO ADD SIZE TO GET HIS MUSCLES STRONGER! I already said that the issue is not Bradury's size. It's his strength at that size. I'm not taking about packing an extra 20 lbs onto Bradbury's frame.

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm going to predict we don't find a trade partner and have to sit out 33 picks.

This was my concern when we traded back. It was a big move up for the Jets and they got the guy they really wanted. Give up some capital and get the Jets 2nd.

We'd be picking 2nd in the second round. Easier to move back from there if we want than up.

It's always easy to play armchair GM, but when you have 15 minutes and someone calls, there is a lot of things to think about. What it tells me is that our GM didn't see a discernable difference between the talent available at 14 or 23.

I'm not giving Spielman a pass. This is what he always does. He values multiple lower picks over higher picks.

Sometimes that a great strategy. Sometimes it's not. This draft, I want fewer bullets and higher quality.

quote:

Spielman generally doesn’t even try to trade into the top 10. The cost is often too high and the value is frequently poor. But this year, the Vikings considered such a move. There are fewer prospects available in this draft, and many have uncertain medical backgrounds since the Vikings were able to examine in person only around a quarter of them due to the pandemic. So if there was a time to move up, Spielman determined, it was this year.

“This was very,” Spielman said before pausing, “I guess the best term to use is piecemealed together.”

Plus, the board seemed to be falling just right for the Vikings to move up and draft a player like Slater, who was falling.

The Vikings called multiple teams inside the top 13. But they were turned aside by each one of them, at one point because the other team had no interest in moving back and at another because the other team didn’t think Minnesota’s offer was strong enough. Spielman wanted to trade up but wasn’t going to give up an unreasonable haul to do so.

“I won’t speak on who we were (interested in) trading up for. I’ll just say we were very active making calls up and down all night,” Spielman said. “In fact, after the third pick, we were working the phones.”

So after being rebuked by teams, the Vikings were on the clock at No. 14. At the top of their board were offensive linemen Darrisaw and Alijah Vera-Tucker and defensive linemen Kwity Paye and Jaelan Phillips. They’d have been happy with any of those four players, so they sought to trade back, initially thinking a quarterback-needy team would want their pick, which was one spot before the Patriots. Instead, the New York Jets made the best offer, sending the Vikings two picks in the third round in exchange for moving back nine spots and a late fourth-rounder. Draft charts showed the Vikings won the trade.

But the team’s brass had some doubts shortly after. The Jets took Vera-Tucker, seen as the top guard, at No. 14. Phillips went four picks later. Paye went three picks after that. Suddenly, the list of players the Vikings wanted had dwindled.

At that point, Spielman tried to trade up, hoping he’d find a spot where he could ensure the team would get Darrisaw. But again, he couldn’t find a suitor. The draft room grew anxious. Head coach Mike Zimmer, who often pushes for defensive players, wanted to add size to the offensive line and worried that the team would miss out on Darrisaw because of Spielman’s frequent insistence on moving back. The team nervously awaited the final few picks until they were on the clock, hoping Darrisaw wouldn’t get taken. If he had, Oklahoma State’s Teven Jenkins was their Plan B. When the Vikings were finally on the clock, they didn’t take long before making their selection.

“I told him don’t answer the phones anymore,” Zimmer quipped of Spielman.

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

“We’re excited to get Christian here,’’ Zimmer said. “He’s a big, athletic left tackle. He moves really well in the zone-blocking scheme, he has good power. We felt we needed to not just get athletic but we needed some more size on the offensive line. He does a nice job with protection.’’

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H
Again, it's all about how much room a guy has on his frame. You seem to be missing that element. Buxton had room. Bradbury does not.

I'm not missing anything Brad. Room on his frame is irrelevant. For the 10th time in this discussion BRADBURY DOESN'T NEED TO ADD SIZE TO GET HIS MUSCLES STRONGER! I already said that the issue is not Bradury's size. It's his strength at that size. I'm not taking about packing an extra 20 lbs onto Bradbury's frame.

Again, if there is a secret sauce the NFL player has it available to him. I say it has more to do with the clowns he has had playing on either side of him that has been keeping him down. When you've got turnstiles on both sides of you, you can have all the strength you want and it won't make any difference.

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Overall, I thought the move that Minnesota made to get two thirds and Darrisaw was a solid play. They needed an OT and they got a decent one. They needed added depth in the draft as a result of not much action in free agency, and got two third-round picks. I would have rather seen a second round pick, but they only had so much leverage and the #66 is fairly close to a late second. Now they need to get at least one solid interior guy in the third, and they've got a handful of picks to make it happen.

Actually, they need a Day 1 starter at OG, so they'd better know how they're getting that. Maybe there's a guy they've ID'd, maybe there's a move with a current pro (trade or street FA) that they know they can make to find a starter.

But one thing is 100% clear: Dozier ain't it.

It's encouraging to hear Spielman say that they're looking for bigger, stronger offensive linemen. It's about time. Ben Cleveland sounds like he'd be a nice addition in the 3rd round.

Landon Dickerson is a supposed stud at C. I want him cuz he can play G now and then move over to C after Bradbury busts.

Cleveland would also be a good get. Not sure if he's starting material but he'd be great in the dumbo package .

So was both Elflein and Bradbury.

I'm okay with Bradbury for another year. It's make or break with him this season. I'd like to see him with some talent around him to see what he really has. It's pretty tough with turnstiles on either side of you.

The difference is that Elflein and Bradbury were both known to be light in the shorts and in need of a lot quality time in the weight room. Dickerson is big, strong and mean. He is a punisher at the point of attack. He is also versatile, so I would happily put him at RG and slide Cleveland over to the left. We'll see if 3rd year is the charm for Bradbury adding enough strength.

From what I understand, Dickerson is both currently injured and has an extensive injury history. He probably won't be available/reliable for the first chunk of the season, so you'd have to be fine going into the season with what we have and comfortable with his history to select him.

quote:

ORIGINAL:
So after being rebuked by teams, the Vikings were on the clock at No. 14. At the top of their board were offensive linemen Darrisaw and Alijah Vera-Tucker and defensive linemen Kwity Paye and Jaelan Phillips. They’d have been happy with any of those four players, so they sought to trade back, initially thinking a quarterback-needy team would want their pick, which was one spot before the Patriots. Instead, the New York Jets made the best offer, sending the Vikings two picks in the third round in exchange for moving back nine spots and a late fourth-rounder. Draft charts showed the Vikings won the trade.

But the team’s brass had some doubts shortly after. The Jets took Vera-Tucker, seen as the top guard, at No. 14. Phillips went four picks later. Paye went three picks after that. Suddenly, the list of players the Vikings wanted had dwindled.

At that point, Spielman tried to trade up, hoping he’d find a spot where he could ensure the team would get Darrisaw. But again, he couldn’t find a suitor. The draft room grew anxious. Head coach Mike Zimmer, who often pushes for defensive players, wanted to add size to the offensive line and worried that the team would miss out on Darrisaw because of Spielman’s frequent insistence on moving back. The team nervously awaited the final few picks until they were on the clock, hoping Darrisaw wouldn’t get taken. If he had, Oklahoma State’s Teven Jenkins was their Plan B. When the Vikings were finally on the clock, they didn’t take long before making their selection.

“I told him don’t answer the phones anymore,” Zimmer quipped of Spielman.

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Overall, I thought the move that Minnesota made to get two thirds and Darrisaw was a solid play. They needed an OT and they got a decent one. They needed added depth in the draft as a result of not much action in free agency, and got two third-round picks. I would have rather seen a second round pick, but they only had so much leverage and the #66 is fairly close to a late second. Now they need to get at least one solid interior guy in the third, and they've got a handful of picks to make it happen.

Actually, they need a Day 1 starter at OG, so they'd better know how they're getting that. Maybe there's a guy they've ID'd, maybe there's a move with a current pro (trade or street FA) that they know they can make to find a starter.

But one thing is 100% clear: Dozier ain't it.

It's encouraging to hear Spielman say that they're looking for bigger, stronger offensive linemen. It's about time. Ben Cleveland sounds like he'd be a nice addition in the 3rd round.

Landon Dickerson is a supposed stud at C. I want him cuz he can play G now and then move over to C after Bradbury busts.

Cleveland would also be a good get. Not sure if he's starting material but he'd be great in the dumbo package .

So was both Elflein and Bradbury.

I'm okay with Bradbury for another year. It's make or break with him this season. I'd like to see him with some talent around him to see what he really has. It's pretty tough with turnstiles on either side of you.

The difference is that Elflein and Bradbury were both known to be light in the shorts and in need of a lot quality time in the weight room. Dickerson is big, strong and mean. He is a punisher at the point of attack. He is also versatile, so I would happily put him at RG and slide Cleveland over to the left. We'll see if 3rd year is the charm for Bradbury adding enough strength.

From what I understand, Dickerson is both currently injured and has an extensive injury history. He probably won't be available/reliable for the first chunk of the season, so you'd have to be fine going into the season with what we have and comfortable with his history to select him.

Dickerson is rehabbing an ACL and is a PUP candidate to start training camp. That said, a healthy Dickerson is everything the Vikings lack on the inside. He's a big, powerful, nasty mauler at the line of scrimmage. The kind who bludgeons opposing DT's into submission. Dude was an easy first rounder before the injury. Some mocks still considered him early 2nd round even with the injury. IMO, it's worth the capital and risk if you can get him mid to late second round.

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL:
So after being rebuked by teams, the Vikings were on the clock at No. 14. At the top of their board were offensive linemen Darrisaw and Alijah Vera-Tucker and defensive linemen Kwity Paye and Jaelan Phillips. They’d have been happy with any of those four players, so they sought to trade back, initially thinking a quarterback-needy team would want their pick, which was one spot before the Patriots. Instead, the New York Jets made the best offer, sending the Vikings two picks in the third round in exchange for moving back nine spots and a late fourth-rounder. Draft charts showed the Vikings won the trade.

But the team’s brass had some doubts shortly after. The Jets took Vera-Tucker, seen as the top guard, at No. 14. Phillips went four picks later. Paye went three picks after that. Suddenly, the list of players the Vikings wanted had dwindled.

At that point, Spielman tried to trade up, hoping he’d find a spot where he could ensure the team would get Darrisaw. But again, he couldn’t find a suitor. The draft room grew anxious. Head coach Mike Zimmer, who often pushes for defensive players, wanted to add size to the offensive line and worried that the team would miss out on Darrisaw because of Spielman’s frequent insistence on moving back. The team nervously awaited the final few picks until they were on the clock, hoping Darrisaw wouldn’t get taken. If he had, Oklahoma State’s Teven Jenkins was their Plan B. When the Vikings were finally on the clock, they didn’t take long before making their selection.

“I told him don’t answer the phones anymore,” Zimmer quipped of Spielman.

Pretty well confirms that Spielman got lucky. The scenario, that Todd posted, of Spielman trading down just far enough for everyone he was interested in drafting getting sniped almost happened.

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ORIGINAL: Funkytown

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm going to predict we don't find a trade partner and have to sit out 33 picks.

This was my concern when we traded back. It was a big move up for the Jets and they got the guy they really wanted. Give up some capital and get the Jets 2nd.

We'd be picking 2nd in the second round. Easier to move back from there if we want than up.

It's always easy to play armchair GM, but when you have 15 minutes and someone calls, there is a lot of things to think about. What it tells me is that our GM didn't see a discernable difference between the talent available at 14 or 23.

I'm not giving Spielman a pass. This is what he always does. He values multiple lower picks over higher picks.

Sometimes that a great strategy. Sometimes it's not. This draft, I want fewer bullets and higher quality.

Not sure if this was shared here yet, but I just saw this a bit ago.

How the Vikings’ decided to draft Christian Darrisaw — and the trade they almost made instead by Chad Graff

quote:

Spielman generally doesn’t even try to trade into the top 10. The cost is often too high and the value is frequently poor. But this year, the Vikings considered such a move. There are fewer prospects available in this draft, and many have uncertain medical backgrounds since the Vikings were able to examine in person only around a quarter of them due to the pandemic. So if there was a time to move up, Spielman determined, it was this year.

“This was very,” Spielman said before pausing, “I guess the best term to use is piecemealed together.”

Plus, the board seemed to be falling just right for the Vikings to move up and draft a player like Slater, who was falling.

The Vikings called multiple teams inside the top 13. But they were turned aside by each one of them, at one point because the other team had no interest in moving back and at another because the other team didn’t think Minnesota’s offer was strong enough. Spielman wanted to trade up but wasn’t going to give up an unreasonable haul to do so.

“I won’t speak on who we were (interested in) trading up for. I’ll just say we were very active making calls up and down all night,” Spielman said. “In fact, after the third pick, we were working the phones.”

So after being rebuked by teams, the Vikings were on the clock at No. 14. At the top of their board were offensive linemen Darrisaw and Alijah Vera-Tucker and defensive linemen Kwity Paye and Jaelan Phillips. They’d have been happy with any of those four players, so they sought to trade back, initially thinking a quarterback-needy team would want their pick, which was one spot before the Patriots. Instead, the New York Jets made the best offer, sending the Vikings two picks in the third round in exchange for moving back nine spots and a late fourth-rounder. Draft charts showed the Vikings won the trade.

But the team’s brass had some doubts shortly after. The Jets took Vera-Tucker, seen as the top guard, at No. 14. Phillips went four picks later. Paye went three picks after that. Suddenly, the list of players the Vikings wanted had dwindled.

At that point, Spielman tried to trade up, hoping he’d find a spot where he could ensure the team would get Darrisaw. But again, he couldn’t find a suitor. The draft room grew anxious. Head coach Mike Zimmer, who often pushes for defensive players, wanted to add size to the offensive line and worried that the team would miss out on Darrisaw because of Spielman’s frequent insistence on moving back. The team nervously awaited the final few picks until they were on the clock, hoping Darrisaw wouldn’t get taken. If he had, Oklahoma State’s Teven Jenkins was their Plan B. When the Vikings were finally on the clock, they didn’t take long before making their selection.

“I told him don’t answer the phones anymore,” Zimmer quipped of Spielman.

Link:

https://theathletic.com/2555011/2021/04/30/how-the-vikings-decided-to-draft-christian-darrisaw-and-the-trade-they-almost-made-instead/

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Overall, I thought the move that Minnesota made to get two thirds and Darrisaw was a solid play. They needed an OT and they got a decent one. They needed added depth in the draft as a result of not much action in free agency, and got two third-round picks. I would have rather seen a second round pick, but they only had so much leverage and the #66 is fairly close to a late second. Now they need to get at least one solid interior guy in the third, and they've got a handful of picks to make it happen.

Actually, they need a Day 1 starter at OG, so they'd better know how they're getting that. Maybe there's a guy they've ID'd, maybe there's a move with a current pro (trade or street FA) that they know they can make to find a starter.

But one thing is 100% clear: Dozier ain't it.

It's encouraging to hear Spielman say that they're looking for bigger, stronger offensive linemen. It's about time. Ben Cleveland sounds like he'd be a nice addition in the 3rd round.

Landon Dickerson is a supposed stud at C. I want him cuz he can play G now and then move over to C after Bradbury busts.

Cleveland would also be a good get. Not sure if he's starting material but he'd be great in the dumbo package .

So was both Elflein and Bradbury.

I'm okay with Bradbury for another year. It's make or break with him this season. I'd like to see him with some talent around him to see what he really has. It's pretty tough with turnstiles on either side of you.

The difference is that Elflein and Bradbury were both known to be light in the shorts and in need of a lot quality time in the weight room. Dickerson is big, strong and mean. He is a punisher at the point of attack. He is also versatile, so I would happily put him at RG and slide Cleveland over to the left. We'll see if 3rd year is the charm for Bradbury adding enough strength.

From what I understand, Dickerson is both currently injured and has an extensive injury history. He probably won't be available/reliable for the first chunk of the season, so you'd have to be fine going into the season with what we have and comfortable with his history to select him.

Dickerson is rehabbing an ACL and is a PUP candidate to start training camp. That said, a healthy Dickerson is everything the Vikings lack on the inside. He's a big, powerful, nasty mauler at the line of scrimmage. The kind who bludgeons opposing DT's into submission. Dude was an easy first rounder before the injury. Some mocks still considered him early 2nd round even with the injury. IMO, it's worth the capital and risk if you can get him mid to late second round.

I don't think Dickerson is too worried about his knees at this point.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31166660

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Overall, I thought the move that Minnesota made to get two thirds and Darrisaw was a solid play. They needed an OT and they got a decent one. They needed added depth in the draft as a result of not much action in free agency, and got two third-round picks. I would have rather seen a second round pick, but they only had so much leverage and the #66 is fairly close to a late second. Now they need to get at least one solid interior guy in the third, and they've got a handful of picks to make it happen.

Actually, they need a Day 1 starter at OG, so they'd better know how they're getting that. Maybe there's a guy they've ID'd, maybe there's a move with a current pro (trade or street FA) that they know they can make to find a starter.

But one thing is 100% clear: Dozier ain't it.

It's encouraging to hear Spielman say that they're looking for bigger, stronger offensive linemen. It's about time. Ben Cleveland sounds like he'd be a nice addition in the 3rd round.

Landon Dickerson is a supposed stud at C. I want him cuz he can play G now and then move over to C after Bradbury busts.

Cleveland would also be a good get. Not sure if he's starting material but he'd be great in the dumbo package .

So was both Elflein and Bradbury.

I'm okay with Bradbury for another year. It's make or break with him this season. I'd like to see him with some talent around him to see what he really has. It's pretty tough with turnstiles on either side of you.

The difference is that Elflein and Bradbury were both known to be light in the shorts and in need of a lot quality time in the weight room. Dickerson is big, strong and mean. He is a punisher at the point of attack. He is also versatile, so I would happily put him at RG and slide Cleveland over to the left. We'll see if 3rd year is the charm for Bradbury adding enough strength.

From what I understand, Dickerson is both currently injured and has an extensive injury history. He probably won't be available/reliable for the first chunk of the season, so you'd have to be fine going into the season with what we have and comfortable with his history to select him.

Dickerson is rehabbing an ACL and is a PUP candidate to start training camp. That said, a healthy Dickerson is everything the Vikings lack on the inside. He's a big, powerful, nasty mauler at the line of scrimmage. The kind who bludgeons opposing DT's into submission. Dude was an easy first rounder before the injury. Some mocks still considered him early 2nd round even with the injury. IMO, it's worth the capital and risk if you can get him mid to late second round.

I don't think Dickerson is too worried about his knees at this point.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31166660

Not bad for a guy 4 months out from knee surgery.

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

Overall, I thought the move that Minnesota made to get two thirds and Darrisaw was a solid play. They needed an OT and they got a decent one. They needed added depth in the draft as a result of not much action in free agency, and got two third-round picks. I would have rather seen a second round pick, but they only had so much leverage and the #66 is fairly close to a late second. Now they need to get at least one solid interior guy in the third, and they've got a handful of picks to make it happen.

Actually, they need a Day 1 starter at OG, so they'd better know how they're getting that. Maybe there's a guy they've ID'd, maybe there's a move with a current pro (trade or street FA) that they know they can make to find a starter.

But one thing is 100% clear: Dozier ain't it.

It's encouraging to hear Spielman say that they're looking for bigger, stronger offensive linemen. It's about time. Ben Cleveland sounds like he'd be a nice addition in the 3rd round.

Landon Dickerson is a supposed stud at C. I want him cuz he can play G now and then move over to C after Bradbury busts.

Cleveland would also be a good get. Not sure if he's starting material but he'd be great in the dumbo package .

So was both Elflein and Bradbury.

I'm okay with Bradbury for another year. It's make or break with him this season. I'd like to see him with some talent around him to see what he really has. It's pretty tough with turnstiles on either side of you.

The difference is that Elflein and Bradbury were both known to be light in the shorts and in need of a lot quality time in the weight room. Dickerson is big, strong and mean. He is a punisher at the point of attack. He is also versatile, so I would happily put him at RG and slide Cleveland over to the left. We'll see if 3rd year is the charm for Bradbury adding enough strength.

From what I understand, Dickerson is both currently injured and has an extensive injury history. He probably won't be available/reliable for the first chunk of the season, so you'd have to be fine going into the season with what we have and comfortable with his history to select him.

Dickerson is rehabbing an ACL and is a PUP candidate to start training camp. That said, a healthy Dickerson is everything the Vikings lack on the inside. He's a big, powerful, nasty mauler at the line of scrimmage. The kind who bludgeons opposing DT's into submission. Dude was an easy first rounder before the injury. Some mocks still considered him early 2nd round even with the injury. IMO, it's worth the capital and risk if you can get him mid to late second round.

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ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Humphrey would be a nice addition, too. But, he seems like a center first type of guy. I don't think the brain trust would move away from Bradbury right now.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Humphrey would be a nice addition, too. But, he seems like a center first type of guy. I don't think the brain trust would move away from Bradbury right now.

I agree too early to move on Bradbury. However, not too early to draft somebody thats played every position on the line like Dickerson ... including C.

I'm playing devil's advocate. I have a lot of concern for the knee as well.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Humphrey would be a nice addition, too. But, he seems like a center first type of guy. I don't think the brain trust would move away from Bradbury right now.

I agree too early to move on Bradbury. However, not too early to draft somebody thats played every position on the line like Dickerson ... including C.

I'm playing devil's advocate. I have a lot of concern for the knee as well.

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ORIGINAL: Pager

Some teams that might still be interested in QB: Houston, Washington, Det, NO, Pit, maybe the Raiders (don't seem to love Carr), Carolina. Am I missing anyone?

There's 3 guys I think would be great developmental guys.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Pager

Some teams that might still be interested in QB: Houston, Washington, Det, NO, Pit, maybe the Raiders (don't seem to love Carr), Carolina. Am I missing anyone?

There's 3 guys I think would be great developmental guys.

With the grace of God, the Packers.

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ORIGINAL: joejitsu

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Humphrey would be a nice addition, too. But, he seems like a center first type of guy. I don't think the brain trust would move away from Bradbury right now.

I agree too early to move on Bradbury. However, not too early to draft somebody thats played every position on the line like Dickerson ... including C.

I'm playing devil's advocate. I have a lot of concern for the knee as well.

There's a lot of hype surrounding the Meinerz kid from Wisc Whitewater. I only saw him during the Senior Bowl. He was impressive, but his conditioning looked less than adequate. Has anyone actually seen him play?