RE: General Vikes Talk

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Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:19:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty Sorry, Bradford doesn't compare to Brady. I can't recall, has Bradford ever won a playoff game ? What would the Vikings' 2nd half rushing yards look like if Kurt played well in the 1st half of games, and had some leads against quality opposition, and some large leads against the bottom feeders ? Also, the Vikings' 2nd half defense would be playing with leads, instead of opponents that are milking the clock, and doing as they please. I'm all for drafting a QBTF and even trading for a QB upgrade (and giving up picks and having 2021 be a cap gut clear out). But some of this non-sense is just non-sense. All the Cousin stats are from 2020 that I see being posted, not career or even the full three years Cousins has been with the Vikings. Cousins also [and the team] was terrible the first five weeks. Finally Cousins can only execute what's called. I was monstrously disappointed in Kubiak. Thought Stephanski did a way better job. If possible we got even MORE conservative in the first half of game in 2020. But let's put it all on Cousins [&o] Also Brady is in conversation for GOAT. But the Bucs version, is vastly overrated by this crowd. He's not at the Brees point yet, but his accuracy has gone way down hill and deep passing is also deteriorating. Bucs oline is VASTLY superiors to ours, Their receiving weapons are better. And no reason to compare run games, because Arians only ran enough to keep em honest. Bucs defense had a Giants-like defense in the playoffs. The Bucs lifted up Brady, not the other way around. Did everyone forget that Brady tried to GIFT wrap the NFCG in a way I've never seen Cousins do? Brady played like S*** in that game, was average in a couple of the other playoff games. Brady is nothing more than a compliment piece. To say Cousins couldn't do that? No way to prove it either way, but some of the takes here are pretty laughable.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:30:31 PM)
How does the vikes poor defense explain cousin’s terrible first half stats? He had two of the best WRs in the game and the 2nd best RB. Shitty defense = more opportunities to score. Oh and did I mention that out of whipping total of 10 TD passes thrown in first halves five of them were against the Lions?

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:33:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. How does the vikes poor defense explain cousin’s terrible first half stats? He had two of the best WRs in the game and the 2nd best RB. Shitty defense = more opportunities to score. Oh and did I mention that out of whipping total of 10 TD passes thrown in first halves five of them were against the Lions? Shitty defense = shitty TOP = equals fewer opportunities in the first half. Complimentary football, 3 and outs by the offense contribute. But my point is all of it is being put on Cousins.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:36:58 PM)
The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:37:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020. Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind? I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won). The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:42:09 PM)
Vikings were 9th best in third down conversion rate allowed.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:43:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020. Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind? I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won). The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins. Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:44:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Vikings were 9th best in third down conversion rate allowed. At something like 43%, correct? Which was a lot higher than previous years. What about 4th down? And first downs by defensive penalty. And again broken out in games we lost, first half/second half. A better stat might be average yardage by down. If the defense is giving up a lot of first downs by second down, 3rd down conversion rate is a lot less meaningful.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:44:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020. Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind? I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won). The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins. Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds. Not in the first half.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 9:46:40 PM)
David F, as always I appreciate your data driven approach! I've got an early morning and want to get to the mountains before traffic makes I70 unbearable. So I'm gonna check out. Cheers.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/25/2021 10:54:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager David F, as always I appreciate your data driven approach! I've got an early morning and want to get to the mountains before traffic makes I70 unbearable. So I'm gonna check out. Cheers. Thanks. Sometimes if I don't crunch numbers and rewatch things I have a tendency to have my memories tainted with emotion. Safe travels.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/26/2021 4:29:33 PM)
https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/tyler-conklin-was-better-than-you-thought-last-year/

JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/26/2021 10:55:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020. Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind? I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won). The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins. Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds. Now you're projecting. Unfortunately, not every team shares our antiquated football philosophy. I wish they did. Then coaching would matter less, and we could lock up Zimmer for life. Time of possession, in a vacuum, is less than meaningless. Chiefs and Buccaneers will certainly make time of possession more of a priority next season.....so they can get really good.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 8:35:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: David F. The vikes averaged 30.02 minutes of TOP in 2020. Break down in first half vs second half? And games when we fell behind? I mean we don't care about the games we won, right? We only care about the games we lost, so we'd have to break out those stats (I don't care if Cousins throws for zero TDs if we won). The stats might not bear out what I'm arguing and it would be a real lawyer moment (don't ask what you don't know the answer to). But regardless if I'm wrong on this point, IMO it's just inaccurate to put it all on Cousins. Games we fall behind in will favor the opponent for TOP as they start to run more and stay in bounds. Now you're projecting. Unfortunately, not every team shares our antiquated football philosophy. I wish they did. Then coaching would matter less, and we could lock up Zimmer for life. Time of possession, in a vacuum, is less than meaningless. Chiefs and Buccaneers will certainly make time of possession more of a priority next season.....so they can get really good. No matter what the philosophy we need to shore up the OLine. Brady virtually untouched in SB and they roll. Mahomes running for his life every other play and he looked human and the team looked average. Horrible judgement by Speilman to not have an above average line with a $30M+ QB who can be above average if he is well protected.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 9:11:38 AM)
https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/ Really good article

Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 11:52:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/ Really good article Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found. Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 1:00:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/ Really good article Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found. Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part. Seems we need to do 2 things. A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro. B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 1:33:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/ Really good article Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found. Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part. Seems we need to do 2 things. A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro. B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block. I would add bring in someone to help access and identify talent.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 2:41:48 PM)
Assess not access. Ugh.

Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 2:54:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/ Really good article Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found. Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part. Seems we need to do 2 things. A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro. B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block. Boy I don’t know Bill, look at both Elflein, and Bradbury- Their calling card is/ was the ability to move around, get to the second and third levels in the run game. Unfortunately both collapse in the pocket.. Hell I’d settle for a freakin road grater or two that hold up the pocket at this point Call me crazy. Obviously the ability to do both is what we can’t seem to find.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/27/2021 7:16:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro https://zonecoverage.com/2021/minnesota-vikings-news/rick-spielmans-offensive-line-philosophy-needs-to-change/ Really good article Yep, or someone who can develop them which unfortunately we haven’t found. Even bringing in the descendants of the vaunted Denver zone blocking scheme hasn’t worked for the more part. Seems we need to do 2 things. A. Bring in an oline coach that can focus on teaching the IOL to anchor in the pass pro. B. Start drafting G's that have the athletic ability in this wide zone scheme that can also pass block. Boy I don’t know Bill, look at both Elflein, and Bradbury- Their calling card is/ was the ability to move around, get to the second and third levels in the run game. Unfortunately both collapse in the pocket.. Hell I’d settle for a freakin road grater or two that hold up the pocket at this point Call me crazy. Obviously the ability to do both is what we can’t seem to find. Once again the team contradicts itself with its philosophy. Resign the second-best RB in the league and then also try to cater the line to the running game. Why do both? A luxury of having such a talented RB would be that he can make up for less good run blocking. In the meantime put a QB back there that positively NEEDS good pass protection. Fire spielman.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/28/2021 10:45:28 PM)
If we have to improve our OL for Watson to be an improvement, then why get him? Watson is an immediate improvement over Kirk, he can make every throw Kirk makes, his mobility is what makes Watson an improvement. Kirk had the Vikings not even making the playoffs last year. Replace him with Watson, and the Vikes make the playoffs, but probably one and done. After adding Watson, you change the OL coach, improve the guards, and a couple of defensive positions, and you have a team that can contend for a Super Bowl. Make those same changes for Kirk, I am still not sure you have a SB contender. Maybe a team that wins 1 playoff game, or gets to the NFC Championship, and loses by a wide margin.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/28/2021 10:49:24 PM)
Did everyone forget that Brady tried to GIFT wrap the NFCG in a way I've never seen Cousins do? Brady played like S*** in that game, was average in a couple of the other playoff games. Brady is nothing more than a compliment piece. To say Cousins couldn't do that? No way to prove it either way, but some of the takes here are pretty laughable As soon as Cousins leads the Vikings to a 28-10 3rd quarter lead in the NFC Championship, and 21-6 halftime SB lead, or a 31-9 3rd quarter SB lead, then you will have a point. Until then, your nonsense is laughable.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/28/2021 10:57:26 PM)
Brady could afford to play worse than Cousins for part of the NFC Championship, because he built a nice halftime lead against a quality opponent on the road, in a playoff game. That is NOT something you're likely to see with Kirk. Brady must have made some good throws to get those leads. He certainly didn't throw INTs or poor throws in the 1st half, nor did he cough the ball up after getting hit in the 1st half. Do you think Brady's throws that led to the Bucs getting early leads on GB and KC, helped the Bucs defense get turnovers against 2 of the best QBs in the league in Rodgers and Mahomes ?

twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/1/2021 6:55:44 AM)
RIP Irv Cross. He was a big deal on TV back in the 80s.

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