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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/11/2021 7:54:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm
As an addendum, how does Mr Cornerback Coach lose his whole CB room at once? How is that, at least in large part, on him?


Prob part of the reason he got another year.....Salary cap issue. (Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander)....but I would still trade Dantzler, Gladney, and whomever is the third going into next year---I think we will be better.

He made choices that limited the salary cap (Barr) and had no one developed behind them, including the first rounder (Hughes) he insisted on even though we had a full slate of starters at the time.


Pretty sure they knew in advance about the CBs and the cap, after all we did. So they drafted Hughes. That's good planning, even though Hughes has not panned out.




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/11/2021 8:25:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/11/2021 8:34:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.


Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!




bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/11/2021 9:21:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm
As an addendum, how does Mr Cornerback Coach lose his whole CB room at once? How is that, at least in large part, on him?


Prob part of the reason he got another year.....Salary cap issue. (Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander)....but I would still trade Dantzler, Gladney, and whomever is the third going into next year---I think we will be better.

He made choices that limited the salary cap (Barr) and had no one developed behind them, including the first rounder (Hughes) he insisted on even though we had a full slate of starters at the time.


Pretty sure they knew in advance about the CBs and the cap, after all we did. So they drafted Hughes. That's good planning, even though Hughes has not panned out.

I get it, but maybe draft a guy later and develop him, or get a second-level free agent and coach him up. Or, don't alienate Alexander so he stays. Four first rounders, a second, and a third, and right now all you have is a very promising guy (Dantzler), a developmental to very promising guy (Gladney), and a guy that you can't rely on who may not be that good anyway, from what we've seen (Hughes).




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 6:28:10 AM)

Longtime NFL coach Dom Capers will have to go somewhere else if he wants to keep his coaching career going.

Capers, who had been the Vikings’ senior defensive assistant, will not be back in 2021, the team announced today.


Wait I thought some posters said we might be switching to a 3-4 due to Capers being hired....[&:]




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 6:35:08 AM)

The Vikings linebackers were depleted. They had trouble putting out 3, much less 4 starting quality linebackers.




Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 9:38:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Longtime NFL coach Dom Capers will have to go somewhere else if he wants to keep his coaching career going.

Capers, who had been the Vikings’ senior defensive assistant, will not be back in 2021, the team announced today.


Wait I thought some posters said we might be switching to a 3-4 due to Capers being hired....[&:]

He probably won't add this past year to his Resume.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 10:28:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.


Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 12:48:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.


Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.


So you also believe draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get, jackass?




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 12:49:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.


Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.


So you also believe draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get, jackass?


I think there is a big difference between early-mid round picks and 7th round picks.

You really are a child.




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 12:56:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.

Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.


So you also believe draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get, jackass?


I think there is a big difference between early-mid round picks and 7th round picks.

You really are a child.

The Vikings draft history pretty well undermines his whole argument. We took Jefferson and Moss at 20 & 21 respectively. We took Williamson at #7. There are great players available in the early rounds regardless of where you are you are in the draft order. The key is to scout and make good choices.




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 2:06:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.

Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.


So you also believe draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get, jackass?


I think there is a big difference between early-mid round picks and 7th round picks.

You really are a child.

The Vikings draft history pretty well undermines his whole argument. We took Jefferson and Moss at 20 & 21 respectively. We took Williamson at #7. There are great players available in the early rounds regardless of where you are you are in the draft order. The key is to scout and make good choices.

Scout and make good choices yes ... the key is to get really lucky.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 5:13:32 PM)

Things will change, but as of now #Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins has the ninth-highest cap hit among NFL QB’s in 2021 ($31M).

He’s nestled between Russell Wilson ($32M) and Ryan Tannehill ($29.5M)

Sean Borman on Twitter

I say he is getting commensurate pay.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 5:43:30 PM)

Too much to copy here from my phone. Here's the link. Personnel suggestions for upcoming season.

https://twitter.com/asiddiqui15/status/1349118064634310660?s=19




Steve Lentz -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 5:57:47 PM)

Justin Jefferson
Chase Young
Michael Onwenu
Jonathan Taylor
Tristan Wirfs

PFF's highest-graded rookies in 2020




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 9:11:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.


Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.


So you also believe draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get, jackass?


I think there is a big difference between early-mid round picks and 7th round picks.

You really are a child.


And you a piss-ant. Maybe work on recognizing obvious silly hyperbole will help.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/12/2021 10:04:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.

Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.


So you also believe draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get, jackass?


I think there is a big difference between early-mid round picks and 7th round picks.

You really are a child.

The Vikings draft history pretty well undermines his whole argument. We took Jefferson and Moss at 20 & 21 respectively. We took Williamson at #7. There are great players available in the early rounds regardless of where you are you are in the draft order. The key is to scout and make good choices.


It doesn't undermine anything, and you know it. Good picks, bad picks happen all the time. The odds of the 20th pick in a draft resulting in a better career than the 10th pick in that same draft are not good. Does it happen? Sure, and not that infrequently. For any number of reasons. But cherry picking a couple scenarios doesn't change the simple and obvious fact that it is better to pick earlier than later. Witness the late season "lose the rest of the games" campaign (about half the posters in here) desperate to gain a pick or 2 in the draft order.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 7:30:44 AM)

Vikings,
2nd Half of Game,
Points Allowed & NFL Ranking,
since 2014:

2014 = 165 (10th)
2015 = 146 (5th)
2016 = 109 (1st)
2017 = 134 (2nd)
2018 = 150 (5th)
2019 = 137 (3rd)
2020 = 264 (32nd)

Dustin Baker on Twitter

He also said the Vikings scored the most points in the 2nd half this year. What the H happened?




Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 10:36:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Vikings,
2nd Half of Game,
Points Allowed & NFL Ranking,
since 2014:

2014 = 165 (10th)
2015 = 146 (5th)
2016 = 109 (1st)
2017 = 134 (2nd)
2018 = 150 (5th)
2019 = 137 (3rd)
2020 = 264 (32nd)

Dustin Baker on Twitter

He also said the Vikings scored the most points in the 2nd half this year. What the H happened?


They gave up a crapload of points forcing Zim to use a more agressive pass offense.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 10:49:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Vikings,
2nd Half of Game,
Points Allowed & NFL Ranking,
since 2014:

2014 = 165 (10th)
2015 = 146 (5th)
2016 = 109 (1st)
2017 = 134 (2nd)
2018 = 150 (5th)
2019 = 137 (3rd)
2020 = 264 (32nd)

Dustin Baker on Twitter

He also said the Vikings scored the most points in the 2nd half this year. What the H happened?


They gave up a crapload of points forcing Zim to use a more agressive pass offense.


First to worst in four years. Let's hope that this season is an outlier with all the Covid stuff going on.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 12:54:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Justin Jefferson
Chase Young
Michael Onwenu
Jonathan Taylor
Tristan Wirfs

PFF's highest-graded rookies in 2020

quote:

Onwenu


2 first rounders
2 second rounders
1 sixth rounder - a guard named onwenu




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 12:55:59 PM)

Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter
Broncos finalizing six-year deal with Vikings’ personnel man George Paton to become Denver’s GM, per source.




Hats4Bats -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 12:57:47 PM)

Denver Broncos reach deal with Minnesota Vikings' George Paton to be GM
12:27 PM CT



ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- John Elway and the Denver Broncos wanted George Paton to be the team's new general manager so much, Paton was given a longer deal than Elway ever had in the same job.

Paton, who has spent the last 13 years with the Minnesota Vikings, has agreed to a six-year deal to be the Broncos' general manager, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter. The Broncos announced Paton's hiring but did not disclose terms.

Paton had spent most of Tuesday in Denver for what was a second interview for him with team officials, and had returned to Minnesota Tuesday night.

Elway had promised to find the "best candidate, the best person'' for the job. The Broncos also interviewed New Orleans Saints assistant general manager Terry Fotenot, Chicago Bears assistant director of player personnel Champ Kelly, the New England Patriots' Dave Ziegler and the Broncos' director of college scouting Brian Stark.
Editor's Picks

A Broncos' GM to-do list for John Elway's replacement

"Early in this process, it became clear why George has been such a coveted GM candidate for so many years. He is a proven evaluator who knows every detail of leading football operations. With his experience in all aspects of the job -- the college and pro sides, salary cap, trades, working with the head coach and bringing the staff together -- George is more than ready to succeed in this role," Elway said in a statement. "George has waited and worked for the right opportunity, which shows that he is smart and serious about winning. We're thrilled to name George Paton as general manager of the Denver Broncos."

Paton and Fotenot, who did his interview virtually because the Saints are still in the playoffs, were each interviewed a second time Tuesday.

Elway, who has been the Broncos' top football decision maker since 2011, announced last week he was stepping away from the day-to-day personal operations, but would remain as president of football operations at least through the final year of his current contract.

Elway also said last week he didn't think the team's current ownership battle between Pat Bowlen's children would impact the Broncos' ability to secure what he believed would be a top candidate. Paton's six-year deal would likely bridge any potential change in the team's ownership in the coming years.

Paton has control over the team's roster, free agency and the draft. The Broncos have missed the playoffs in five consecutive seasons since the Super Bowl 50 win and finished this past season 5-11.

The team faces contract option decisions on linebacker Von Miller and Kareem Jackson and Pro Bowl safety Justin Simmons is scheduled to be among the team's unrestricted free agents. A decision about the plan at quarterback also is among the front-burner issues for the Broncos.

The team has one of the youngest rosters in the league, enough salary cap room to participate in the open market and Elway and team president and CEO Joe Ellis each promised in recent days the new general manager would have "the resources'' to make improvements.

"In many ways, I feel like this team is a sleeping giant. For me, it is the right place and the right time for this opportunity," Paton said in a statement. "... While it is difficult to leave the Vikings, the relationships I enjoyed in Minnesota are for life.

Paton added: "... Drafting and developing players is the No. 1 priority. We will be aggressive -- but not reckless -- in adding talent to our roster."

Paton has been particularly selective with general manager openings over the years. Last year following Kevin Stefanski's departure for Cleveland, Paton was a finalist for the Cleveland Browns' general manager position but pulled his name from contention on Jan. 24, 2020, two days after he visited for an in-person interview.

Paton was also sought after for openings with Detroit -- this cycle and previously when the Detroit Lions hired former GM Bob Quinn -- Green Bay, San Francisco, the Los Angeles Rams and the New York Jets.

Paton is widely considered among the top talent evaluators on the Vikings' personnel staff and his exit leaves Minnesota with a big void in the front office. Ryan Monnens, the current director of pro scouting, could be in line to replace Paton this offseason.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 7:34:06 PM)

If Patton is only among the top talent evaluators on the Vikings team we ought to be able to replace him




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2021 8:30:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo
Considering that we typically draft 15-25 it would follow that we actually have less talent than most other teams. Contrary to popular belief, there are other teams in the NFL attempting to "amass" talent.

Total cop out. There are all kinds of good players taken later than that every year. Maybe the problem is that we turning earlier picks into multiple 7th round picks.

Oh, c'mon, you basically just said draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get. Hey I guess Spiels is right, there should be "all kinds of good players" available in the 7th round, the later the better!


This is weak spin even for you.


So you also believe draft position makes no difference in the quality of player you have a shot to get, jackass?


I think there is a big difference between early-mid round picks and 7th round picks.

You really are a child.

The Vikings draft history pretty well undermines his whole argument. We took Jefferson and Moss at 20 & 21 respectively. We took Williamson at #7. There are great players available in the early rounds regardless of where you are you are in the draft order. The key is to scout and make good choices.


It doesn't undermine anything, and you know it. Good picks, bad picks happen all the time. The odds of the 20th pick in a draft resulting in a better career than the 10th pick in that same draft are not good. Does it happen? Sure, and not that infrequently. For any number of reasons. But cherry picking a couple scenarios doesn't change the simple and obvious fact that it is better to pick earlier than later. Witness the late season "lose the rest of the games" campaign (about half the posters in here) desperate to gain a pick or 2 in the draft order.


Expected your obligatory swarmy one-liner.




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