RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts?

RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

How many games before Kellen Mond starts?

0% (0)

10% (1)

0% (0)

Next Season (2022)

80% (8)

NEVER

10% (1)

Total Votes : 10

(last vote on : 6/10/2021 8:47:15 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

kgdabom -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 12:20:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Gotta have a great QB to win. Plain and simple. Packers had a chance because they had a great QB. No you don't. Since 2000, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles won Superbowls. I wouldn't call any of those guys great, but they have 4 SB MVP combined. In 2008 Pittsburg won the Superbowl with Roethlisberger throwing 17 TD and 15 Int. Hell, even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won Superbowls in the modern era. For that matter Jimmy Garopalo, Jared Goff, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins quarterbacked teams to the Superbowl during that time. You win with great teams. Brady is the GOAT. But even Brady did not do it alone. He has played on great teams over his career. He didn't carry a bottom 5 defense and special teams on his back to the promised land. [:D][sm=dillydilly.jpg][sm=ditto.gif]

bohumm -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 12:58:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Gotta have a great QB to win. Plain and simple. Packers had a chance because they had a great QB. No you don't. Since 2000, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles won Superbowls. I wouldn't call any of those guys great, but they have 4 SB MVP combined. In 2008 Pittsburg won the Superbowl with Roethlisberger throwing 17 TD and 15 Int. Hell, even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won Superbowls in the modern era. For that matter Jimmy Garopalo, Jared Goff, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins quarterbacked teams to the Superbowl during that time. You win with great teams. Brady is the GOAT. But even Brady did not do it alone. He has played on great teams over his career. He didn't carry a bottom 5 defense and special teams on his back to the promised land. Denver won with a severely depleted Peyton Manning.

TJSweens -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 1:00:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Gotta have a great QB to win. Plain and simple. Packers had a chance because they had a great QB. No you don't. Since 2000, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles won Superbowls. I wouldn't call any of those guys great, but they have 4 SB MVP combined. In 2008 Pittsburg won the Superbowl with Roethlisberger throwing 17 TD and 15 Int. Hell, even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won Superbowls in the modern era. For that matter Jimmy Garopalo, Jared Goff, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins quarterbacked teams to the Superbowl during that time. You win with great teams. Brady is the GOAT. But even Brady did not do it alone. He has played on great teams over his career. He didn't carry a bottom 5 defense and special teams on his back to the promised land. Denver won with a severely depleted Peyton Manning. And twice with John Elway, who despite being in the HOF was the very definition of average.

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 1:35:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Gotta have a great QB to win. Plain and simple. Packers had a chance because they had a great QB. No you don't. Since 2000, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles won Superbowls. I wouldn't call any of those guys great, but they have 4 SB MVP combined. In 2008 Pittsburg won the Superbowl with Roethlisberger throwing 17 TD and 15 Int. Hell, even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won Superbowls in the modern era. For that matter Jimmy Garopalo, Jared Goff, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins quarterbacked teams to the Superbowl during that time. You win with great teams. Brady is the GOAT. But even Brady did not do it alone. He has played on great teams over his career. He didn't carry a bottom 5 defense and special teams on his back to the promised land. Denver won with a severely depleted Peyton Manning. And twice with John Elway, who despite being in the HOF was the very definition of average. Oh come on now. You can't be serious on that one. [&:]

kgdabom -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 1:38:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Gotta have a great QB to win. Plain and simple. Packers had a chance because they had a great QB. No you don't. Since 2000, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles won Superbowls. I wouldn't call any of those guys great, but they have 4 SB MVP combined. In 2008 Pittsburg won the Superbowl with Roethlisberger throwing 17 TD and 15 Int. Hell, even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won Superbowls in the modern era. For that matter Jimmy Garopalo, Jared Goff, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins quarterbacked teams to the Superbowl during that time. You win with great teams. Brady is the GOAT. But even Brady did not do it alone. He has played on great teams over his career. He didn't carry a bottom 5 defense and special teams on his back to the promised land. Denver won with a severely depleted Peyton Manning. And twice with John Elway, who despite being in the HOF was the very definition of average. Above average IMO, but definitely overrated. You all know about the Elway Cross?[:D]

TJSweens -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 1:45:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Gotta have a great QB to win. Plain and simple. Packers had a chance because they had a great QB. No you don't. Since 2000, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles won Superbowls. I wouldn't call any of those guys great, but they have 4 SB MVP combined. In 2008 Pittsburg won the Superbowl with Roethlisberger throwing 17 TD and 15 Int. Hell, even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won Superbowls in the modern era. For that matter Jimmy Garopalo, Jared Goff, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins quarterbacked teams to the Superbowl during that time. You win with great teams. Brady is the GOAT. But even Brady did not do it alone. He has played on great teams over his career. He didn't carry a bottom 5 defense and special teams on his back to the promised land. Denver won with a severely depleted Peyton Manning. And twice with John Elway, who despite being in the HOF was the very definition of average. Oh come on now. You can't be serious on that one. [&:] 56.9% completion percentage, 300 TD, 226 Int, Rating 79.9. I'm sure that there is some nuanced Brad eye test, where those numbers translate into superstardom.

David Levine -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 1:51:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Gotta have a great QB to win. Plain and simple. Packers had a chance because they had a great QB. No you don't. Since 2000, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Nick Foles won Superbowls. I wouldn't call any of those guys great, but they have 4 SB MVP combined. In 2008 Pittsburg won the Superbowl with Roethlisberger throwing 17 TD and 15 Int. Hell, even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won Superbowls in the modern era. For that matter Jimmy Garopalo, Jared Goff, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme and Kerry Collins quarterbacked teams to the Superbowl during that time. You win with great teams. Brady is the GOAT. But even Brady did not do it alone. He has played on great teams over his career. He didn't carry a bottom 5 defense and special teams on his back to the promised land. Denver won with a severely depleted Peyton Manning. And twice with John Elway, who despite being in the HOF was the very definition of average. Oh come on now. You can't be serious on that one. [&:] He was 37 and 38 when he won his Super Bowls - and was a shell of his former self. 1997: 4 Games: 180 yards/game, 58%, 3 TDs, 2 INTs. 1 rushing TD, 4 Fumbles, 3 Lost. 1998: 3 Games: 230 yards/game, 52%, 3 TDs, 1 INT. 1 rushing TD, 1 Fumble, 0 Lost. Terrell Davis and their defense won those games. (Although I wouldn't exactly call them the same era as what we're in now)

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:20:54 PM)
Most two-minute, game-winning drives in NFL history. #7 John Elway (40) Above him: Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Benn Roethlisberger, Brett Favre (all of which will be in the Hall of Fame)

TJSweens -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:23:57 PM)
I forgot. In Brad world, that two minutes is the only stat that matters. And as David pointed out, he was a shell of his former self in those Superbowl years.

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:32:13 PM)
Most of Elway's career his top wide receiver was Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel. He didn't get Shannon Sharpe until 1990, who was really the only great player around him until 1995 when they got Davis and Ed McCaffrey. The guy was a phenomenal talent. And he did it with a mostly poor offensive line. Dude was sacked 516 times. He had 10 seasons where he was sacked more than 30 times.

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:35:38 PM)
Lets also not forget he rushed for 3,407 yards and 33 TD's before running quarterbacks were even cool.

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:39:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens I forgot. In Brad world, that two minutes is the only stat that matters. And as David pointed out, he was a shell of his former self in those Superbowl years. It isn't the only stat that matters, but it's a big one. It defines crunch time player.

TJSweens -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:41:40 PM)
Let's also not forget that your underlying point that you can't win without a great QB has been disproven by numerous run of the mill Superbowl QB's over that last 20 or so years.

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens Let's also not forget that your underlying point that you can't win without a great QB has been disproven by numerous run of the mill Superbowl QB's over that last 20 or so years. The game has changed radically in the past 5-7 years. Half the league is putting up video game numbers. You seem to be missing that point. Cousins can't do those things, because he has little mobility and can't think on his feet. He's just a guy.

David Levine -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:51:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most two-minute, game-winning drives in NFL history. #7 John Elway (40) Above him: Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Benn Roethlisberger, Brett Favre (all of which will be in the Hall of Fame) I have no problem with people saying Elway was great. But he absolutely wasn't still great when he won his Super Bowls. He was barely a caretaker in most of those playoff games.

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:53:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most two-minute, game-winning drives in NFL history. #7 John Elway (40) Above him: Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Benn Roethlisberger, Brett Favre (all of which will be in the Hall of Fame) I have no problem with people saying Elway was great. But he absolutely wasn't still great when he won his Super Bowls. He was barely a caretaker in most of those playoff games. It takes talent to be a caretaker and know your role. Our guy doesn't take care of the ball when he is young, let alone old.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:54:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most two-minute, game-winning drives in NFL history. #7 John Elway (40) Above him: Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Benn Roethlisberger, Brett Favre (all of which will be in the Hall of Fame) I have no problem with people saying Elway was great. But he absolutely wasn't still great when he won his Super Bowls. He was barely a caretaker in most of those playoff games. Well... He got helicopter tackled in the first win. I would classify that as a bit more than just caretaker...

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:57:00 PM)
I knew John Elway was a man the day the Colts drafted him and he said he wouldn't play for them. That took some stones.

TJSweens -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:57:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens Let's also not forget that your underlying point that you can't win without a great QB has been disproven by numerous run of the mill Superbowl QB's over that last 20 or so years. The game has changed radically in the past 5-7 years. Half the league is putting up video game numbers. You seem to be missing that point. The game has changed, but not in the way you are implying. Rule changes have made things more favorable for all quarterbacks, not just the elite. Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes can put a great team over the top, but they will not drag the 2020 Vikings kicking and screaming into the playoffs.

Phil Riewer -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 2:59:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most of Elway's career his top wide receiver was Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel. He didn't get Shannon Sharpe until 1990, who was really the only great player around him until 1995 when they got Davis and Ed McCaffrey. The guy was a phenomenal talent. And he did it with a mostly poor offensive line. Dude was sacked 516 times. He had 10 seasons where he was sacked more than 30 times. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Rod Smith, Anthony Miller, McCaffery, Sharpe....not chop liver. The Broncos utilized Winder and other RBs in the passing game....They were on every Sunday 2nd game.

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 3:02:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most of Elway's career his top wide receiver was Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel. He didn't get Shannon Sharpe until 1990, who was really the only great player around him until 1995 when they got Davis and Ed McCaffrey. The guy was a phenomenal talent. And he did it with a mostly poor offensive line. Dude was sacked 516 times. He had 10 seasons where he was sacked more than 30 times. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Rod Smith, Anthony Miller, McCaffery, Sharpe....not chop liver. Rod Smith was another that came in for the 1995 season. Elway was already an old man by then. Steve Watson? Anthony Miller played for three seasons in Denver from 94-96. Again, he was an old man by then. Vance Johnson had 415 catches in 11 seasons in the league. He was just a guy.

Phil Riewer -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 3:05:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most of Elway's career his top wide receiver was Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel. He didn't get Shannon Sharpe until 1990, who was really the only great player around him until 1995 when they got Davis and Ed McCaffrey. The guy was a phenomenal talent. And he did it with a mostly poor offensive line. Dude was sacked 516 times. He had 10 seasons where he was sacked more than 30 times. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Rod Smith, Anthony Miller, McCaffery, Sharpe....not chop liver. Rod Smith was another that came in for the 1995 season. Elway was already an old man by then. Steve Watson? Anthony Miller player for three seasons in Denver 94-96. Again, he was an old man by then. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson?.....You know the 3 amigos? LOL...cmon Brad. Do better. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatsSt00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackMa00.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnVa00.htm

Brad H -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 3:07:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most of Elway's career his top wide receiver was Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel. He didn't get Shannon Sharpe until 1990, who was really the only great player around him until 1995 when they got Davis and Ed McCaffrey. The guy was a phenomenal talent. And he did it with a mostly poor offensive line. Dude was sacked 516 times. He had 10 seasons where he was sacked more than 30 times. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Rod Smith, Anthony Miller, McCaffery, Sharpe....not chop liver. Rod Smith was another that came in for the 1995 season. Elway was already an old man by then. Steve Watson? Anthony Miller player for three seasons in Denver 94-96. Again, he was an old man by then. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson?.....You know the 3 amigos? LOL...cmon Brad. Do better. I understand the three amigos. What I'm saying is, they weren't that good without el Chapo delivering the goods. They were just guys.

Phil Riewer -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 3:40:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most of Elway's career his top wide receiver was Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel. He didn't get Shannon Sharpe until 1990, who was really the only great player around him until 1995 when they got Davis and Ed McCaffrey. The guy was a phenomenal talent. And he did it with a mostly poor offensive line. Dude was sacked 516 times. He had 10 seasons where he was sacked more than 30 times. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Rod Smith, Anthony Miller, McCaffery, Sharpe....not chop liver. Rod Smith was another that came in for the 1995 season. Elway was already an old man by then. Steve Watson? Anthony Miller player for three seasons in Denver 94-96. Again, he was an old man by then. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson?.....You know the 3 amigos? LOL...cmon Brad. Do better. I understand the three amigos. What I'm saying is, they weren't that good without el Chapo delivering the goods. They were just guys. If you want to look at your posts at the top of the thread (that isn't what you said)..... There was talent at WR....Watson was there b4 Elway. Best year 1981; Elway started 1983....really not just a guy. Johnson and Jackson also not just guys; Rod Smith not just a guy; Anthony Miller not just a guy; McCaffery not just a guy....is it the 4th and 5th WR you referring to as "just guys". Do you want to edit what you said? Also be aware of this: So you think Jefferson is just that good or Cousins was part of the reason for a breakout rookie season (who started his Training Camp late due to COVID)? You can't just pick QB's you like.

kgdabom -> RE: How many games before Kellen Mond starts? (6/9/2021 4:23:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Most of Elway's career his top wide receiver was Mark Jackson or Ricky Nattiel. He didn't get Shannon Sharpe until 1990, who was really the only great player around him until 1995 when they got Davis and Ed McCaffrey. The guy was a phenomenal talent. And he did it with a mostly poor offensive line. Dude was sacked 516 times. He had 10 seasons where he was sacked more than 30 times. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Rod Smith, Anthony Miller, McCaffery, Sharpe....not chop liver. Rod Smith was another that came in for the 1995 season. Elway was already an old man by then. Steve Watson? Anthony Miller player for three seasons in Denver 94-96. Again, he was an old man by then. Steve Watson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson?.....You know the 3 amigos? LOL...cmon Brad. Do better. I understand the three amigos. What I'm saying is, they weren't that good without el Chapo delivering the goods. They were just guys. If you want to look at your posts at the top of the thread (that isn't what you said)..... There was talent at WR....Watson was there b4 Elway. Best year 1981; Elway started 1983....really not just a guy. Johnson and Jackson also not just guys; Rod Smith not just a guy; Anthony Miller not just a guy; McCaffery not just a guy....is it the 4th and 5th WR you referring to as "just guys". Do you want to edit what you said? Also be aware of this: So you think Jefferson is just that good or Cousins was part of the reason for a breakout rookie season (who started his Training Camp late due to COVID)? You can't just pick QB's you like. Cousins and his ultra accurate downfield throws played a huge role in Jefferson's success.

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