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Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 9:10:44 AM)

Too much talent to be wasted with has-been players and coaches.

I would fire Zimmer after the game Thursday, fire Spielman now, and let the new coach and GM clean house.

That was an embarrassment. Dude is a defensive guru?!?! No. What a ****ing joke.

The PIT game is gonna be SF 2.0. They will run for 200+ yards on MN.



ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 9:20:59 AM)

I would prefer Speilman not draft the next QB.

“Ponder is the most NFL ready QB in draft”



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 9:22:50 AM)

If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 9:50:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.


One day things will change.
When? When will they change?
- Probably when you least expect it.



Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 9:57:27 AM)

Wouldn’t be surprised if Spielman starts quietly lobbying behind the scenes to dump Zimmer in order to protect his own job. “It’s a talented bunch of guys Ziggy they’re just being mishandled and held back from achieving all they can.”

Then it’s just a matter of whether the Wilfs believe him or not. I’d say it’s 90% Zimmer is gone at end of season and possibly as soon as Friday. Maybe 50/50 that Spielman is gone with him.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 10:19:19 AM)

Judging NFL Week 13 overreactions: Another MVP for Tom Brady? Could Mike Zimmer be fired soon?

Mike Zimmer is in his final weeks as Vikings coach
Minnesota's up-and-down season hit a new low Sunday, as Zimmer's Vikings became the first team this season to lose to the Lions. The game was loaded with questionable decisions. Zimmer's defense was way too lenient with the Lions even before allowing a 14-play, game-winning drive in the final 1:50.

The 5-7 Vikings are only a couple of weeks removed from an impressive victory over the Packers, and they've had some painful near misses this season, but there's no excusing this latest loss, and questions about whether Zimmer is on the hot seat as his eighth season in Minnesota enters its final stretch are certainly warranted.

The verdict: NOT AN OVERREACTION. To be clear: I am not saying Zimmer is going to be fired, either now or after the season. The NFC playoff race is a jumble, and the Vikings could potentially be a couple of good weeks away from being right back in the picture. It's too soon to know for sure what the team will do once the season ends.

But it's certainly realistic to think they would make a change. With quarterback Kirk Cousins entering the final year of his contract, it's possible there could be a lot of changes in Minnesota. Sunday's loss to the Lions was a microcosm of a season that tilts toward disappointing, and if the Vikings don't finish with a flourish, it's entirely possible the Zimmer era could end.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/32798158/judging-nfl-week-13-overreactions-another-mvp-tom-brady-mike-zimmer-fired-soon



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 10:50:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.


One day things will change.
When? When will they change?
- Probably when you least expect it.

So .. this year huh?



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 11:31:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If I can take one thing from this year it's feelings, hope, faith...don't mean shit.

I can't quit this team but I can stop believing anything means anything and that we're finally destined to win. I'll believe it when the confetti flies and we're handed the trophy.


One day things will change.
When? When will they change?
- Probably when you least expect it.

So .. this year huh?


Just need to find that last golden ticket.



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 1:03:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Wouldn’t be surprised if Spielman starts quietly lobbying behind the scenes to dump Zimmer in order to protect his own job. “It’s a talented bunch of guys Ziggy they’re just being mishandled and held back from achieving all they can.”

Then it’s just a matter of whether the Wilfs believe him or not. I’d say it’s 90% Zimmer is gone at end of season and possibly as soon as Friday. Maybe 50/50 that Spielman is gone with him.

I think Speilman is a pretty stand up guy. Doubt he would go this route.

Time for Wilfs to cut the cord. Speilman will easily find another job(scout or whatever) and Zimmer should probably start doing the Capers or Guenther thing(or just retire).



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 1:21:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

Wouldn’t be surprised if Spielman starts quietly lobbying behind the scenes to dump Zimmer in order to protect his own job. “It’s a talented bunch of guys Ziggy they’re just being mishandled and held back from achieving all they can.”

Then it’s just a matter of whether the Wilfs believe him or not. I’d say it’s 90% Zimmer is gone at end of season and possibly as soon as Friday. Maybe 50/50 that Spielman is gone with him.

I think Speilman is a pretty stand up guy. Doubt he would go this route.

Time for Wilfs to cut the cord. Speilman will easily find another job(scout or whatever) and Zimmer should probably start doing the Capers or Guenther thing(or just retire).


If the Lions start over, he might be first in line for that job. From last December:

Saying "it's really good to be home," former Detroit Lions All-Pro linebacker Chris Spielman left the broadcast booth Tuesday and joined the franchise as a special assistant to owner Sheila Ford Hamp and team president Rod Wood in a move that gives the team a familiar face atop the organization.

Spielman, who had been working for FOX as a color analyst, will report to Wood and will serve as an adviser to both him and Hamp while working with both the business and football sides of the franchise.

He will be involved in every interview for the team's vacant general manager and head coaching positions, although Wood said those hired ultimately will not report to Spielman.



ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 1:29:41 PM)

.
.
why would he change(?), at least not until he breaks his own record....


Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
The Vikings 2 minute defense is closing in on historic lows w/ an NFL worst in points allowed in final 2 mins of any half w/ 101.

The most points allowed in the final 2 minutes of a half in the last 20 seasons is 107 – a record set by Minnesota in 2020.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 2:10:34 PM)

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 2:40:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 2:42:22 PM)

Here is the graphic from yesterday's game:

[image]https://i.ibb.co/4mDXpBH/FF3v8-GIVIAU410-E.jpg[/image]



Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 3:59:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 4:10:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.


Or, you know, lead the team to more than 6 points in the first half.

Maybe lead the team to a TD before the 6 minute mark of the 3rd?



bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 4:24:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.

So you would need to know the league-wide data for QBs of middling teams with horrible offensive lines that can't hold up against an all-out rush when they're behind, and you'd also have to come up with a better way of accounting for games like yesterday, and AZ, and Cin, and Dallas, where he did what he was supposed to do in the fourth quarter to win and the defense blew it.

Kirk isn't amazing, or even good, at bringing teams back to win. But this kind of bullshit is a typical cherry-picking of a narrowly defined measure to make someone look really good or really bad when it suits the media's purposes.



Karl Juhnke -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 4:32:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.


Or, you know, lead the team to more than 6 points in the first half.

Maybe lead the team to a TD before the 6 minute mark of the 3rd?


True but this specific post was about 4th quarter comebacks. Cousins led a dandy one and the defense pissed it away.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 4:43:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.

Even Jared Goff runs a better two-minute offense. With an underwhelming roster, Goff led the hapless Lions right down the field. Running a two-minute offense is a must in 2021 and Cousins is terrible at it.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 4:47:11 PM)

That wasn’t Goff being good. That was Zimmer being senile.



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 4:49:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


It's probably accurate as they had it up during yesterday's game and they commented on it.

So you would need to know the league-wide data for QBs of middling teams with horrible offensive lines that can't hold up against an all-out rush when they're behind, and you'd also have to come up with a better way of accounting for games like yesterday, and AZ, and Cin, and Dallas, where he did what he was supposed to do in the fourth quarter to win and the defense blew it.

Kirk isn't amazing, or even good, at bringing teams back to win. But this kind of bullshit is a typical cherry-picking of a narrowly defined measure to make someone look really good or really bad when it suits the media's purposes.

I would say this is what keeps Kirk from being an upper echelon QB. He doesn't change plays when it seems like he should. Just goes with what is called.

Should we have had more points in the 1st half? I say yes. The fake pitch, roll out was just a gimme play(a layup) every time we ran it. Easy pickings. Did we ever run it in the red zone? I don't think so. Brady would have kept calling it until they stopped it.



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 4:52:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

That wasn’t Goff being good. That was Zimmer being senile.

Agreed. I would have blitzed one of the worst quarterbacks in the league at avoiding the rush on every play. He played right into Goff's hand. Really bad coaching.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 5:11:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I've seen this stat thrown around a bunch lately. Not sure if it's accurate.

Kirk Cousins while a MN Viking record when entering the 4th quarter:

Leading: 27-1

Tied: 1-1

Trailing: 2-25-1


If this is true, this is why he isn't regarded as elite.


Yeah Cousins should have played better defense on that last Lions drive.


Or, you know, lead the team to more than 6 points in the first half.

Maybe lead the team to a TD before the 6 minute mark of the 3rd?


True but this specific post was about 4th quarter comebacks. Cousins led a dandy one and the defense pissed it away.

Its the same excuse as using Cook's fumble and Joseph's miss ... as if the only points that matter in a game come from the final or next to final drives.

He didn't get it done. Against the worst team in football. End of story.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 5:29:04 PM)

Even when he’s not directly responsible for losses, he’s not completely blameless. The Vikings didn’t lose Sunday’s game because of the offense. But against one of the worst defenses in the league, the Vikings didn’t score a touchdown for the first 39 minutes of the game. They didn’t have a single drive last longer than five minutes, consistently forcing the Minnesota defense back onto the field.

https://theathletic.com/3001264/2021/12/06/kirk-cousins-needs-to-turn-around-vikings-ship-or-his-future-with-the-team-could-become-hazy/



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/6/2021 5:31:52 PM)

That meant the Vikings just needed to stop Goff and the Lions from going 75 yards in 1 minute and 50 seconds with no timeouts in front of a half-empty stadium for a fan base whose optimism has been drained by years of the Lions finding ways to crumble in these moments. They’d already failed on a fourth down at their own 28, which basically gifted the Vikings a late lead, and hadn’t converted on a single third down all afternoon.

Yet the Vikings sat back in prevent defense, rarely blitzing a quarterback who’s terrible against the blitz, content to give up passes in 7- and 8-yard chunks until the 14th play of the drive ended the game.

“They were just playing off and soft, and we have a play that we’ve been running probably since training camp for that exact (scenario),” Goff said of his throw that beat the Vikings. “It’s for that exact situation.”

https://theathletic.com/2999497/2021/12/05/vikings-loss-to-the-lions-is-the-kind-that-can-lead-to-significant-changes/



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