RE: 2022 NFL draft

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ratoppenheimer -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 11:46:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice. Replacing Breeland and Alexander alone will improve that number. i feel like we need one more seasoned d-tackle type for depth...i wonder if we could get one of these for $2m/yr?...of if they're even worth it.... still available: linval joseph sheldon richardson gerald mccoy ndamukong suh

bohumm -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 11:49:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice. With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems. For one off season and very little resources for improvement ... We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart. We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary] We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart. We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders. Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO] Next, we addressed the secondary: Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith. Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better] The draft will be Step Three. I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake. This is a really good post, IMO. They've positioned the defense to probably not be horrible no matter what (barring a spate of serious injury to several key players, which no unit could withstand), and with no improvement from here on other than replacement level depth, they should be OK. This makes them competitive for a playoff spot (the Wilfs' criterion, not yours or mine). Next, address the future with an eye on the present by taking a gamechanger at 12 (including WR, S, DT/3-4 DE, QB in this draft) that may not fill a crying present need, but is the kind of thing usually only available in the upper portion of the first round. If that's not available, fill a need with a very good player appropriate to the 12th pick (CB, which would also fit the previous category but fits most squarely here) or WR (this offense needs another high-end WR if possible for depth to knock everyone past Theilen down a rung and possibly upgrade over Theilen in the very near future, maybe even this year) or Edge (high-quality depth for Hunter and Smith as well as high-quality situational pass rusher, which is premium). If none of that is available when the 12th pick is up, that is where moving back could become very attractive. Though everyone loves it, I don't see the Vikings gaining a 2023 1st unless desperation creates a bidding war. But moving back allows shots at deeper critical positions (Edge and WR), more shots at CB if the premium guys are gone, and a more appropriate spots to pick IOL, S, and DT/3-4 DE. I think of all of this as a 3-4 year project hobbled by the Wilfs' obsession with being a fringe playoff team throughout the process. The lack of an alternative to Bradbury, which is hard for me to see looking through prospects in the draft, is depressing, but I get what is driving it. If there had been an appropriate alternative in FA at our price point, we'd be bemoaning the lack of a nickel CB or DT/3-4 DE. But that one stings more because of Kirk's profound issues with pressure up the middle.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 1:30:26 PM)
As surmised before, the two need areas they haven't really addressed beyond a low bar are DB and IOL. CB. Please don't pull on that loose thread. Safety. They may need to take risk at S and hope Bynum progresses while Smith doesn't fall below 1/4 tank. Guard. The late stages of a Yahtzee game come to mind. Center. Incredibly, they may have to roll with Badbury. Let's hope KOC really does have 'a few schematic things to help him'. TE. They can point to Irv returning if they need an excuse. Front Seven. Lots of new personnel and new scheme, but how about a true 3-4 NT. WR. This could be the top need next year.

Tom Sykes -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 2:22:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen As surmised before, the two need areas they haven't really addressed beyond a low bar are DB and IOL. CB. Please don't pull on that loose thread. Safety. They may need to take risk at S and hope Bynum progresses while Smith doesn't fall below 1/4 tank. Guard. The late stages of a Yahtzee game come to mind. Center. Incredibly, they may have to roll with Badbury. Let's hope KOC really does have 'a few schematic things to help him'. TE. They can point to Irv returning if they need an excuse. Front Seven. Lots of new personnel and new scheme, but how about a true 3-4 NT. WR. This could be the top need next year. Its kinda weird, after all the KC banter early on, how QB has been completely removed from the table in here. No longer a whisper. A very underwhelming draft class, I guess; curiosity about Mond; 2-year Cousins resignation (or euphoria in a few cases). I would add OT to your list with no Hill, unless he's re-signed. Outside of Linderleprechaun ... I don't see any reason to draft a C ... they all look so week. There are OGs lower first and on but with virgin Wyatt and other additions, not sure why. TE is only slightly better than C but there has to be a depth potential in there somewhere.

Murph -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 5:09:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice. With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems. For one off season and very little resources for improvement ... We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart. We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary] We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart. We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders. Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO] Next, we addressed the secondary: Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith. Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better] The draft will be Step Three. I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake. This is a really good post, IMO. They've positioned the defense to probably not be horrible no matter what (barring a spate of serious injury to several key players, which no unit could withstand), and with no improvement from here on other than replacement level depth, they should be OK. This makes them competitive for a playoff spot (the Wilfs' criterion, not yours or mine). Next, address the future with an eye on the present by taking a gamechanger at 12 (including WR, S, DT/3-4 DE, QB in this draft) that may not fill a crying present need, but is the kind of thing usually only available in the upper portion of the first round. If that's not available, fill a need with a very good player appropriate to the 12th pick (CB, which would also fit the previous category but fits most squarely here) or WR (this offense needs another high-end WR if possible for depth to knock everyone past Theilen down a rung and possibly upgrade over Theilen in the very near future, maybe even this year) or Edge (high-quality depth for Hunter and Smith as well as high-quality situational pass rusher, which is premium). If none of that is available when the 12th pick is up, that is where moving back could become very attractive. Though everyone loves it, I don't see the Vikings gaining a 2023 1st unless desperation creates a bidding war. But moving back allows shots at deeper critical positions (Edge and WR), more shots at CB if the premium guys are gone, and a more appropriate spots to pick IOL, S, and DT/3-4 DE. I think of all of this as a 3-4 year project hobbled by the Wilfs' obsession with being a fringe playoff team throughout the process. The lack of an alternative to Bradbury, which is hard for me to see looking through prospects in the draft, is depressing, but I get what is driving it. If there had been an appropriate alternative in FA at our price point, we'd be bemoaning the lack of a nickel CB or DT/3-4 DE. But that one stings more because of Kirk's profound issues with pressure up the middle. Hard to argue with anything in anyone said here. Really solid thoughts fellas!

Mark Anderson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 6:12:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice. With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems. For one off season and very little resources for improvement ... We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart. We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary] We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart. We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders. Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO] Next, we addressed the secondary: Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith. Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better] The draft will be Step Three. I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake. This is a really good post, IMO. They've positioned the defense to probably not be horrible no matter what (barring a spate of serious injury to several key players, which no unit could withstand), and with no improvement from here on other than replacement level depth, they should be OK. This makes them competitive for a playoff spot (the Wilfs' criterion, not yours or mine). Next, address the future with an eye on the present by taking a gamechanger at 12 (including WR, S, DT/3-4 DE, QB in this draft) that may not fill a crying present need, but is the kind of thing usually only available in the upper portion of the first round. If that's not available, fill a need with a very good player appropriate to the 12th pick (CB, which would also fit the previous category but fits most squarely here) or WR (this offense needs another high-end WR if possible for depth to knock everyone past Theilen down a rung and possibly upgrade over Theilen in the very near future, maybe even this year) or Edge (high-quality depth for Hunter and Smith as well as high-quality situational pass rusher, which is premium). If none of that is available when the 12th pick is up, that is where moving back could become very attractive. Though everyone loves it, I don't see the Vikings gaining a 2023 1st unless desperation creates a bidding war. But moving back allows shots at deeper critical positions (Edge and WR), more shots at CB if the premium guys are gone, and a more appropriate spots to pick IOL, S, and DT/3-4 DE. I think of all of this as a 3-4 year project hobbled by the Wilfs' obsession with being a fringe playoff team throughout the process. The lack of an alternative to Bradbury, which is hard for me to see looking through prospects in the draft, is depressing, but I get what is driving it. If there had been an appropriate alternative in FA at our price point, we'd be bemoaning the lack of a nickel CB or DT/3-4 DE. But that one stings more because of Kirk's profound issues with pressure up the middle. I would say stay at #12 for Stingley, maybe Davis. Trading back would be ideal if those 2 are gone. Pittsburgh(need QB) and the Chargers(need RT) would ones to talk to. If we could pick up another 2 or 3, that gives you a bonus pick to go get Jurgens or Strange with that extra pick. Still get CB and DLine or Edge guy with picks 1 and 2.

Todd M -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 6:56:54 PM)
Vikes trade up to 4 giving up their 2nd/3rd grab Hamilton. Take a break until an hour in on Sat.

Todd M -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/22/2022 7:39:30 PM)
Jets don't need more draft stock. Carolina does. Maybe Hamilton @6 saving our 3rd round pick.

marty -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 12:11:41 AM)
Very strong points Tom, I agree with everything you're saying, except your absolutely WRONG on Deebo. I would trade Thielen and a 3rd rounder for Deebo. Or a 2nd this year, and a 2nd next year for him. The money: you just put Brez to work and make it happen. You get KC to restructure next year again.

marty -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 12:13:40 AM)
Trading for Deebo depends on your view of the team. I see them as a Wildcard team that could make some noise this year, and a division winner next year that is a SB contender. If you merely see them as a .500 team this year, and a Wildcard team the following season, then I can understand your not wanting to trade for Deebo.

Tom Sykes -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 12:58:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty Very strong points Tom, I agree with everything you're saying, except your absolutely WRONG on Deebo. I would trade Thielen and a 3rd rounder for Deebo. Or a 2nd this year, and a 2nd next year for him. The money: you just put Brez to work and make it happen. You get KC to restructure next year again. I would love to have Deebo on our team. He's a unique player. But ... we already made the decision to not hook up with Deebo when we decided to restructure and keep our veterans. We simply don't have the resources to pull it off. By far our biggest FA splurge of the offseason is Zad Smith. By far. Remarkably, he signed a team friendly deal at 3 yrs 42m with only 6.45m guaranteed. His cap number is less than 3.1m this year (less than CJ Ham). We can easily move on from Zad after this year if we need to. Deebo has posted on social media that he is looking for 25m a year (#3-#4 Wr money, right there with Diggs). A full commitment from a franchise. We are already checking under sofas for change to help contribute to our JJ fund in 1-2 yrs. Deebo just doesn't work for us in the real world.

marty -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 1:05:27 AM)
Ok Tom, makes sense. I should have kept Deebo in the FA section. I find it interesting so many mocks have the Vikes taking Stingley at 12, even with numerous ways of things shaking out. I just saw a mock that has the Vikings taking Jermaine Johnson at 12, and trading up into the back end of round 1 for Elam, which I liked.

marty -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 1:06:31 AM)
I would probably go WR or edge with the pick at 12, then draft CBs in both rounds 2 and 3.

Phil Riewer -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 6:22:58 AM)
This is the Diggs year of WR. We found him in the fifth. Grab one of the 4-5 other needs. Then draft one in the third or fifth

Brad H -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 6:38:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice. With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems. For one off season and very little resources for improvement ... We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart. We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary] We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart. We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders. Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO] Next, we addressed the secondary: Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith. Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better] The draft will be Step Three. I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake. I disagree with some of this. Without cover guys, you could put the top talent in the league up front and it wouldn't make us a good defense. It is a different era. The quarterbacks aren't pocket passers any more. It's a two-step drop and the ball is gone. That or the QB takes off. If an offense that is running crisply, you could have the quickest guy off the line and it wouldn't make a difference. What is important in 2022 is to have athletic guys up front (for containment) and great cover guys. One of the teams that spent more money than anyone in the past 8-10 years up front on defense was Houston. They had Watt, Wilfork and Clowney for about 3-4 years. Never won more than nine games with that combination. Why? They couldn't cover anybody. They were 7th, 8th and 11th in points against (in a division with Tennessee, Indy and JVille, none of which were any good). Not bad, but not what they thought they were getting when they spent a billion dollars on guys up front. At the end of the day, you cannot win consistently with poor talent on the back end. That may have flown in 1975 or 1988, but not in 2022. In 2021, Tampa Bay threw the ball 43.3 times-per-game. There were 14 teams that threw it more than 35 times-per-game (and that was a down year for passing). In 2008 the Saints threw it a league-high 39.8 times-per-game and there were six teams that threw it at least 35 times-per-game. It's a different game than it was 15 years ago. With running quarterbacks being a thing, passing numbers have started to trend downwards. In 2016, three teams averaged over 40 passes-per-game and 21 teams averaged more than 35. That's why I say, you need athletes up front and guys that can cover on the back end. At the end of the day, you have to be good everywhere on defense to be a great defense. I'm not asking for that. I just want to be competent at this point. I really liked Peterson and Smith.............FIVE YEARS AGO!

Tom Sykes -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 8:44:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice. With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems. For one off season and very little resources for improvement ... We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart. We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary] We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart. We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders. Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO] Next, we addressed the secondary: Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith. Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better] The draft will be Step Three. I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake. I disagree with some of this. Without cover guys, you could put the top talent in the league up front and it wouldn't make us a good defense. It is a different era. The quarterbacks aren't pocket passers any more. It's a two-step drop and the ball is gone. That or the QB takes off. If an offense that is running crisply, you could have the quickest guy off the line and it wouldn't make a difference. What is important in 2022 is to have athletic guys up front (for containment) and great cover guys. One of the teams that spent more money than anyone in the past 8-10 years up front on defense was Houston. They had Watt, Wilfork and Clowney for about 3-4 years. Never won more than nine games with that combination. Why? They couldn't cover anybody. They were 7th, 8th and 11th in points against (in a division with Tennessee, Indy and JVille, none of which were any good). Not bad, but not what they thought they were getting when they spent a billion dollars on guys up front. At the end of the day, you cannot win consistently with poor talent on the back end. That may have flown in 1975 or 1988, but not in 2022. In 2021, Tampa Bay threw the ball 43.3 times-per-game. There were 14 teams that threw it more than 35 times-per-game (and that was a down year for passing). In 2008 the Saints threw it a league-high 39.8 times-per-game and there were six teams that threw it at least 35 times-per-game. It's a different game than it was 15 years ago. With running quarterbacks being a thing, passing numbers have started to trend downwards. In 2016, three teams averaged over 40 passes-per-game and 21 teams averaged more than 35. That's why I say, you need athletes up front and guys that can cover on the back end. At the end of the day, you have to be good everywhere on defense to be a great defense. I'm not asking for that. I just want to be competent at this point. I really liked Peterson and Smith.............FIVE YEARS AGO! At the end of the end of the day you have to be good on all levels of the defense to be good. Nobody disputes that. CBs are critical. We’re hurting right now in that dept. (I am not sure how good Sullivan and Bynum will be … who we will draft, etc.). But … it doesnt matter how good your corners are if the QB has all day to throw or if the run game is effective . Former passing game coordinator O’Connell has emphasized the front seven (so far) in FA … are you saying he’s an old zchool coach for not beefing up the secondary first? You think cutting edge Kwesi processes analytics similar to Zimmer-ball? No. With only spare change in their pocket, I think they are trying to be efficient and thrifty, and approaching the D the right way.

Mark Anderson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 8:59:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice. With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems. For one off season and very little resources for improvement ... We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart. We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary] We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart. We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders. Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO] Next, we addressed the secondary: Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith. Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better] The draft will be Step Three. I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake. I disagree with some of this. Without cover guys, you could put the top talent in the league up front and it wouldn't make us a good defense. It is a different era. The quarterbacks aren't pocket passers any more. It's a two-step drop and the ball is gone. That or the QB takes off. If an offense that is running crisply, you could have the quickest guy off the line and it wouldn't make a difference. What is important in 2022 is to have athletic guys up front (for containment) and great cover guys. One of the teams that spent more money than anyone in the past 8-10 years up front on defense was Houston. They had Watt, Wilfork and Clowney for about 3-4 years. Never won more than nine games with that combination. Why? They couldn't cover anybody. They were 7th, 8th and 11th in points against (in a division with Tennessee, Indy and JVille, none of which were any good). Not bad, but not what they thought they were getting when they spent a billion dollars on guys up front. At the end of the day, you cannot win consistently with poor talent on the back end. That may have flown in 1975 or 1988, but not in 2022. In 2021, Tampa Bay threw the ball 43.3 times-per-game. There were 14 teams that threw it more than 35 times-per-game (and that was a down year for passing). In 2008 the Saints threw it a league-high 39.8 times-per-game and there were six teams that threw it at least 35 times-per-game. It's a different game than it was 15 years ago. With running quarterbacks being a thing, passing numbers have started to trend downwards. In 2016, three teams averaged over 40 passes-per-game and 21 teams averaged more than 35. That's why I say, you need athletes up front and guys that can cover on the back end. At the end of the day, you have to be good everywhere on defense to be a great defense. I'm not asking for that. I just want to be competent at this point. I really liked Peterson and Smith.............FIVE YEARS AGO! At the end of the end of the day you have to be good on all levels of the defense to be good. Nobody disputes that. CBs are critical. We’re hurting right now in that dept. (I am not sure how good Sullivan and Bynum will be … who we will draft, etc.). But … it doesnt matter how good your corners are if the QB has all day to throw or if the run game is effective . Former passing game coordinator O’Connell has emphasized the front seven (so far) in FA … are you saying he’s an old zchool coach for not beefing up the secondary first? You think cutting edge Kwesi processes analytics similar to Zimmer-ball? No. With only spare change in their pocket, I think they are trying to be efficient and thrifty, and approaching the D the right way. We need competent CBs. No doubt. DLine needs to be elite though. An elite DLine makes average corners above average. Giants upset undefeated Pats with an elite Dline. 85 Bears elite DLine, competent CBs who had to cover for 2 or 3 seconds. Like Brad said, we have more running QBs now. All the more reason to have elite agile Edge Rushers who can catch them. Plus, you need monster DTs who take up 2 blockers so LBs have a free run.

Mark Anderson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 9:06:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer This is the Diggs year of WR. We found him in the fifth. Grab one of the 4-5 other needs. Then draft one in the third or fifth There is no reason to draft a WR high this year with so many other needs. Just read where some GM said WRs(along with Edge Rushers) will probably always be a deep position in the draft going forward. That's where the best athletes are playing in HS and college. That's where the non QB money is.

marty -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 10:21:46 AM)
But it is smart to draft a WR this year, so you're still strong at WR the next couple of years, should you let go of Thielen next off season.

bohumm -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 11:06:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer This is the Diggs year of WR. We found him in the fifth. Grab one of the 4-5 other needs. Then draft one in the third or fifth There is no reason to draft a WR high this year with so many other needs. Just read where some GM said WRs(along with Edge Rushers) will probably always be a deep position in the draft going forward. That's where the best athletes are playing in HS and college. That's where the non QB money is. Completely disagree on WR, though there are other areas that need attention up high as well. A second elite receiver is a difference maker in an offense that counts on multi-receiver sets. The Rams hit another level when Odell was signed and started playing close to elite level. You need other guys as well, so it's not to say that 3, 4, and 5 don't matter, but again with the Rams they were forced to play that one horrible WR who dropped TDs left and right. If he's your last line, OK, but if he's 3 or 4, you've got trouble. And as I said on the other thread, rookie contract economics are becoming as prominent for elite WRs as they are for QBs. Theilen is on the wane, so getting an elite WR on a rookie deal to pair with JJ as he comes into a new deal is essential.

Mark Anderson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 11:14:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer This is the Diggs year of WR. We found him in the fifth. Grab one of the 4-5 other needs. Then draft one in the third or fifth There is no reason to draft a WR high this year with so many other needs. Just read where some GM said WRs(along with Edge Rushers) will probably always be a deep position in the draft going forward. That's where the best athletes are playing in HS and college. That's where the non QB money is. Completely disagree on WR, though there are other areas that need attention up high as well. A second elite receiver is a difference maker in an offense that counts on multi-receiver sets. The Rams hit another level when Odell was signed and started playing close to elite level. You need other guys as well, so it's not to say that 3, 4, and 5 don't matter, but again with the Rams they were forced to play that one horrible WR who dropped TDs left and right. If he's your last line, OK, but if he's 3 or 4, you've got trouble. And as I said on the other thread, rookie contract economics are becoming as prominent for elite WRs as they are for QBs. Theilen is on the wane, so getting an elite WR on a rookie deal to pair with JJ as he comes into a new deal is essential. Kupp: 3rd Round Adams: 2nd Round Hill and Diggs: 5th Round Keenan Allen: 3rd Round Renfroe: 5th Round McClaurin: 3rd Round It is probably the deepest position in this draft. Shore up defense and IOL and then find a sleeper WR later in draft.

Mark Anderson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 11:22:19 AM)
If we draft London, Williams or Wilson, I'll be on board. I just think we can find a starter quality guy later in draft. Jameson Williams would be the perfect compliment to what we have right now. Speedster in the DeSean Jackson mold.

jbusse -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 11:23:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer This is the Diggs year of WR. We found him in the fifth. Grab one of the 4-5 other needs. Then draft one in the third or fifth There is no reason to draft a WR high this year with so many other needs. Just read where some GM said WRs(along with Edge Rushers) will probably always be a deep position in the draft going forward. That's where the best athletes are playing in HS and college. That's where the non QB money is. Completely disagree on WR, though there are other areas that need attention up high as well. A second elite receiver is a difference maker in an offense that counts on multi-receiver sets. The Rams hit another level when Odell was signed and started playing close to elite level. You need other guys as well, so it's not to say that 3, 4, and 5 don't matter, but again with the Rams they were forced to play that one horrible WR who dropped TDs left and right. If he's your last line, OK, but if he's 3 or 4, you've got trouble. And as I said on the other thread, rookie contract economics are becoming as prominent for elite WRs as they are for QBs. Theilen is on the wane, so getting an elite WR on a rookie deal to pair with JJ as he comes into a new deal is essential. Kupp: 3rd Round Adams: 2nd Round Hill and Diggs: 5th Round Keenan Allen: 3rd Round Renfroe: 5th Round McClaurin: 3rd Round It is probably the deepest position in this draft. Shore up defense and IOL and then find a sleeper WR later in draft. Those are nice examples, but there's a huge group of WRs taken after the first round that never amount to anything (and I understand that there's no guarantee with 1st round picks (like Treadwell) either). This is precisely the type of question that Kwesi's analytics-based approach can help steer the Vikings in the right direction.

Mark Anderson -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 11:30:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer This is the Diggs year of WR. We found him in the fifth. Grab one of the 4-5 other needs. Then draft one in the third or fifth There is no reason to draft a WR high this year with so many other needs. Just read where some GM said WRs(along with Edge Rushers) will probably always be a deep position in the draft going forward. That's where the best athletes are playing in HS and college. That's where the non QB money is. Completely disagree on WR, though there are other areas that need attention up high as well. A second elite receiver is a difference maker in an offense that counts on multi-receiver sets. The Rams hit another level when Odell was signed and started playing close to elite level. You need other guys as well, so it's not to say that 3, 4, and 5 don't matter, but again with the Rams they were forced to play that one horrible WR who dropped TDs left and right. If he's your last line, OK, but if he's 3 or 4, you've got trouble. And as I said on the other thread, rookie contract economics are becoming as prominent for elite WRs as they are for QBs. Theilen is on the wane, so getting an elite WR on a rookie deal to pair with JJ as he comes into a new deal is essential. Kupp: 3rd Round Adams: 2nd Round Hill and Diggs: 5th Round Keenan Allen: 3rd Round Renfroe: 5th Round McClaurin: 3rd Round It is probably the deepest position in this draft. Shore up defense and IOL and then find a sleeper WR later in draft. Those are nice examples, but there's a huge group of WRs taken after the first round that never amount to anything (and I understand that there's no guarantee with 1st round picks (like Treadwell) either). This is precisely the type of question that Kwesi's analytics-based approach can help steer the Vikings in the right direction. To me it always comes down to 'what' when we get beaten soundly(SF Playoff game, Cleveland game, plenty of other games). In the trenches. That's why I am on the Jordan Davis bandwagon. He probably won't put up the eye popping stats. But, he will make the edge guys and 3/4 DEs better because they will have one on ones. ILBs will have free runs instead of dealing with OLineman getting to second level.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: 2022 NFL draft (4/23/2022 12:09:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson If we draft London, Williams or Wilson, I'll be on board. I just think we can find a starter quality guy later in draft. Jameson Williams would be the perfect compliment to what we have right now. Speedster in the DeSean Jackson mold. You beat me to it. Don’t be shocked if he’s called at 12. Makes us immediately better and makes negotiations with JJ easier.

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