quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

The WR talk in here has gotten downright lusty. Its like everybody all of a sudden walked into talkvikes wearing wr beer goggles.

If you step back, on paper, 5 out of 5 secondary players are question marks or past their prime, two out of three IOL are flat out sub-par, our DTs last year vastly underperformed … I confess I’m not even sure who our DEs are (Phillips?, Watts? Wonnum is OLB?) … TE is a question mark (I like Smith but he’s a question mark) … DT and TE are under-valued and underrated because they do so much dirty work … we are thin everywhere except RB but OT is dangeeously thin.

As far as what we have under contract for 2022-2023 - WR, RB, Edge/OLB, ILB are the only positions ready for battle. We have no idea how things will get reconfigured by this Sept. much less next year so saying WR is critical for whatever future reasons … its just horniness.

Best player availabe … for players rated the same, secondary then iol then dt then de then ot then maybe te (nobody with 1-2 rd ranking).

If you're referring to me, I've been in on WR from the start, and got killed in here for it from the start. WR is a need this year because of the move toward more 3+WR formations, Theilen's health/career arc, and KJ's shortcomings as a WR2 (as seen when Theilen was absent last year) in spite of his clear appropriateness for WR3. It's not a void or a hole, but as Murphy said above, 12 is not just for this year, it's foundational. There is no IOL that merits even the remotest consideration at 12. The top CBs and Hamilton would be appropriate at 12 and I've already said I'd take them at 12 without hesitation. I think (but don't know) that the 3-4 DEs are last year's DTs, so Tomlinson, Lynch, Watts, Twyman, etc., and maybe Phillips, though someone in there must be the NT unless that is something they're still looking for.

IMO, BPA has to be weighted for importance of position to overall success and then, as you say, with tiebreakers to positions of need. And the draft is mostly about the long view, so how things fit into a 2-4 year plan is paramount.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice.

With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems.

For one off season and very little resources for improvement ...

We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart.

We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary]

We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart.

We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders.

Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO]

Next, we addressed the secondary:

Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith.

Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better]

The draft will be Step Three.

I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake.

I disagree with some of this. Without cover guys, you could put the top talent in the league up front and it wouldn't make us a good defense. It is a different era. The quarterbacks aren't pocket passers any more. It's a two-step drop and the ball is gone. That or the QB takes off. If an offense that is running crisply, you could have the quickest guy off the line and it wouldn't make a difference. What is important in 2022 is to have athletic guys up front (for containment) and great cover guys.

One of the teams that spent more money than anyone in the past 8-10 years up front on defense was Houston. They had Watt, Wilfork and Clowney for about 3-4 years. Never won more than nine games with that combination. Why? They couldn't cover anybody. They were 7th, 8th and 11th in points against (in a division with Tennessee, Indy and JVille, none of which were any good). Not bad, but not what they thought they were getting when they spent a billion dollars on guys up front.

At the end of the day, you cannot win consistently with poor talent on the back end. That may have flown in 1975 or 1988, but not in 2022.

In 2021, Tampa Bay threw the ball 43.3 times-per-game. There were 14 teams that threw it more than 35 times-per-game (and that was a down year for passing). In 2008 the Saints threw it a league-high 39.8 times-per-game and there were six teams that threw it at least 35 times-per-game. It's a different game than it was 15 years ago.

With running quarterbacks being a thing, passing numbers have started to trend downwards. In 2016, three teams averaged over 40 passes-per-game and 21 teams averaged more than 35. That's why I say, you need athletes up front and guys that can cover on the back end.

At the end of the day, you have to be good everywhere on defense to be a great defense. I'm not asking for that. I just want to be competent at this point.

I really liked Peterson and Smith.............FIVE YEARS AGO!

At the end of the end of the day you have to be good on all levels of the defense to be good. Nobody disputes that.

CBs are critical. We’re hurting right now in that dept. (I am not sure how good Sullivan and Bynum will be … who we will draft, etc.). But … it doesnt matter how good your corners are if the QB has all day to throw or if the run game is effective .

Former passing game coordinator O’Connell has emphasized the front seven (so far) in FA … are you saying he’s an old zchool coach for not beefing up the secondary first? You think cutting edge Kwesi processes analytics similar to Zimmer-ball?

No. With only spare change in their pocket, I think they are trying to be efficient and thrifty, and approaching the D the right way.

We need competent CBs. No doubt.

DLine needs to be elite though. An elite DLine makes average corners above average. Giants upset undefeated Pats with an elite Dline. 85 Bears elite DLine, competent CBs who had to cover for 2 or 3 seconds.

Like Brad said, we have more running QBs now. All the more reason to have elite agile Edge Rushers who can catch them. Plus, you need monster DTs who take up 2 blockers so LBs have a free run.

Again, I wish you were right, but you aren't. An elite defensive lineman makes 15-22 sacks a year. An elite corner shuts down an elite wide receiver 35 times a game. You gotta have guys that can cover or your defense is doomed from the outset.

It would be nice to get a 15-22 sack guy but I'm talking about the DLine as a whole. We need 6-8 guys who can get us 40-45 sacks a year.

Of course we can't run guys like Alexander and Breeland out there and expect to be a competent pass defense. We need to draft 2 corners and probably grab another 2 UDFA CBs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

This team is very thin in the defensive secondary and their two best players are on the back side of career mountain. They gave up 426 points last season. Anything short of addressing secondary needs should be considered GM malpractice.

With no change in regime, I really believe the defense would have been worse in 2022 than 2021. It was that big a mess. IMO we should keep that in mind when evaluating our progress on defense this off season. Not only are we trying to improve on 2021 but we had to stop the bleeding first, stabilize the patient, AND THEN start fixing the problems.

For one off season and very little resources for improvement ...

We put our FA attention on the front 7. Smart.

We squarely focused on the pass rush (keeping Hunter, signing Smith). Smart. [that also helps the secondary]

We changed schemes which will highlight our three best defenders (Kendricks, Hunter, Smith). Smart.

We didn't do anything dumb on offense (like shooting our complete FA wad at Scherff or worse, trading for Deebo) or ST (we invested minimal) which gave us just enough to bring in some 2nd-3rd tier defenders.

Step one for rebuilding our defense ... CHECK. [it's relative, we are not significantly better but we are better and heading in the right direction IMO]

Next, we addressed the secondary:

Peterson, Breeland, Alexander, Woods, Smith -for- Peterson, Dantzler, Sullivan, Bynum, Smith.

Step two for rebuilding our defense ... QUESTION MARK. [again, as we stand now, with no resources to improve, we are at least not worse, maybe slightly better]

The draft will be Step Three.

I agree with you that if we don't put significant draft attention on the secondary, the GM will be making a mistake.

I disagree with some of this. Without cover guys, you could put the top talent in the league up front and it wouldn't make us a good defense. It is a different era. The quarterbacks aren't pocket passers any more. It's a two-step drop and the ball is gone. That or the QB takes off. If an offense that is running crisply, you could have the quickest guy off the line and it wouldn't make a difference. What is important in 2022 is to have athletic guys up front (for containment) and great cover guys.

One of the teams that spent more money than anyone in the past 8-10 years up front on defense was Houston. They had Watt, Wilfork and Clowney for about 3-4 years. Never won more than nine games with that combination. Why? They couldn't cover anybody. They were 7th, 8th and 11th in points against (in a division with Tennessee, Indy and JVille, none of which were any good). Not bad, but not what they thought they were getting when they spent a billion dollars on guys up front.

At the end of the day, you cannot win consistently with poor talent on the back end. That may have flown in 1975 or 1988, but not in 2022.

In 2021, Tampa Bay threw the ball 43.3 times-per-game. There were 14 teams that threw it more than 35 times-per-game (and that was a down year for passing). In 2008 the Saints threw it a league-high 39.8 times-per-game and there were six teams that threw it at least 35 times-per-game. It's a different game than it was 15 years ago.

With running quarterbacks being a thing, passing numbers have started to trend downwards. In 2016, three teams averaged over 40 passes-per-game and 21 teams averaged more than 35. That's why I say, you need athletes up front and guys that can cover on the back end.

At the end of the day, you have to be good everywhere on defense to be a great defense. I'm not asking for that. I just want to be competent at this point.

I really liked Peterson and Smith.............FIVE YEARS AGO!

At the end of the end of the day you have to be good on all levels of the defense to be good. Nobody disputes that.

CBs are critical. We’re hurting right now in that dept. (I am not sure how good Sullivan and Bynum will be … who we will draft, etc.). But … it doesnt matter how good your corners are if the QB has all day to throw or if the run game is effective .

Former passing game coordinator O’Connell has emphasized the front seven (so far) in FA … are you saying he’s an old zchool coach for not beefing up the secondary first? You think cutting edge Kwesi processes analytics similar to Zimmer-ball?

No. With only spare change in their pocket, I think they are trying to be efficient and thrifty, and approaching the D the right way.

We need competent CBs. No doubt.

DLine needs to be elite though. An elite DLine makes average corners above average. Giants upset undefeated Pats with an elite Dline. 85 Bears elite DLine, competent CBs who had to cover for 2 or 3 seconds.

Like Brad said, we have more running QBs now. All the more reason to have elite agile Edge Rushers who can catch them. Plus, you need monster DTs who take up 2 blockers so LBs have a free run.

Again, I wish you were right, but you aren't. An elite defensive lineman makes 15-22 sacks a year. An elite corner shuts down an elite wide receiver 35 times a game. You gotta have guys that can cover or your defense is doomed from the outset.

It would be nice to get a 15-22 sack guy but I'm talking about the DLine as a whole. We need 6-8 guys who can get us 40-45 sacks a year.

Of course we can't run guys like Alexander and Breeland out there and expect to be a competent pass defense. We need to draft 2 corners and probably grab another 2 UDFA CBs.

I'm sorry. I want that 15-22 sack/season guy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

The WR talk in here has gotten downright lusty. Its like everybody all of a sudden walked into talkvikes wearing wr beer goggles.

If you step back, on paper, 5 out of 5 secondary players are question marks or past their prime, two out of three IOL are flat out sub-par, our DTs last year vastly underperformed … I confess I’m not even sure who our DEs are (Phillips?, Watts? Wonnum is OLB?) … TE is a question mark (I like Smith but he’s a question mark) … DT and TE are under-valued and underrated because they do so much dirty work … we are thin everywhere except RB but OT is dangeeously thin.

As far as what we have under contract for 2022-2023 - WR, RB, Edge/OLB, ILB are the only positions ready for battle. We have no idea how things will get reconfigured by this Sept. much less next year so saying WR is critical for whatever future reasons … its just horniness.

Best player availabe … for players rated the same, secondary then iol then dt then de then ot then maybe te (nobody with 1-2 rd ranking).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

When I think of the Steelers and Patriots 3-4s, I thought that the 2 OLBs(in our case, Hunter and Z) were basically in a two point stance the majority of the time. With two 5 technique DEs and a NT. So they would rush 5 guys alot of the time but occasionally an OLB would drop back in coverage.

Maybe Donatell has a more 50-50 or 60-40 approach with 3-4 and 4-3.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

When I think of the Steelers and Patriots 3-4s, I thought that the 2 OLBs(in our case, Hunter and Z) were basically in a two point stance the majority of the time. With two 5 technique DEs and a NT. So they would rush 5 guys alot of the time but occasionally an OLB would drop back in coverage.

Maybe Donatell has a more 50-50 or 60-40 approach with 3-4 and 4-3.

donatell said that when the offense is in nickel, we'll be in 4-2 - and figure that's going to be 60-70% of the time....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

This comes from KOC saying during a presser or interview that teams are in nickel two-thirds or three-quarters of the time, so the base alignment is less important than how you line up on passing downs. Don't get me wrong, I value run defense and I'd love to have Davis on the team, but not where we'd have to pick him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

This comes from KOC saying during a presser or interview that teams are in nickel two-thirds or three-quarters of the time, so the base alignment is less important than how you line up on passing downs. Don't get me wrong, I value run defense and I'd love to have Davis on the team, but not where we'd have to pick him.

Yeah Rap already covered it. Donatell's remarks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

This comes from KOC saying during a presser or interview that teams are in nickel two-thirds or three-quarters of the time, so the base alignment is less important than how you line up on passing downs. Don't get me wrong, I value run defense and I'd love to have Davis on the team, but not where we'd have to pick him.

Yeah Rap already covered it. Donatell's remarks.

I think Davis can play on passing downs.

Yes, it will still be a rotation and he won't play 80-90% of the downs like a starting CB but the guy can be a monster with some fine tuning.

Plus, I picked him in the Draft Challenge.[8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

This comes from KOC saying during a presser or interview that teams are in nickel two-thirds or three-quarters of the time, so the base alignment is less important than how you line up on passing downs. Don't get me wrong, I value run defense and I'd love to have Davis on the team, but not where we'd have to pick him.

Yeah Rap already covered it. Donatell's remarks.

I think Davis can play on passing downs.

Yes, it will still be a rotation and he won't play 80-90% of the downs like a starting CB but the guy can be a monster with some fine tuning.

Plus, I picked him in the Draft Challenge.[8|]

Blasphemy! Surprised bohumm hasn't tried to short-circuit that thought. He replies to me in record time. Quite efficient he is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

This comes from KOC saying during a presser or interview that teams are in nickel two-thirds or three-quarters of the time, so the base alignment is less important than how you line up on passing downs. Don't get me wrong, I value run defense and I'd love to have Davis on the team, but not where we'd have to pick him.

Yeah Rap already covered it. Donatell's remarks.

I think Davis can play on passing downs.

Yes, it will still be a rotation and he won't play 80-90% of the downs like a starting CB but the guy can be a monster with some fine tuning.

Plus, I picked him in the Draft Challenge.[8|]

Blasphemy! Surprised bohumm hasn't tried to short-circuit that thought. He replies to me in record time. Quite efficient he is.

Now that he's off your board I've lost interest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

This comes from KOC saying during a presser or interview that teams are in nickel two-thirds or three-quarters of the time, so the base alignment is less important than how you line up on passing downs. Don't get me wrong, I value run defense and I'd love to have Davis on the team, but not where we'd have to pick him.

Yeah Rap already covered it. Donatell's remarks.

I think Davis can play on passing downs.

Yes, it will still be a rotation and he won't play 80-90% of the downs like a starting CB but the guy can be a monster with some fine tuning.

Plus, I picked him in the Draft Challenge.[8|]

Blasphemy! Surprised bohumm hasn't tried to short-circuit that thought. He replies to me in record time. Quite efficient he is.

Now that he's off your board I've lost interest.

Mark is my proxy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

But if that's how he was used in college, when they run more and pass less effectively, how much can he be used in the NFL? And I knew someone would come with the Moss thing; he wasn't off the field for two-thirds of the plays. Rest when you're on the sideline, and if you're supposed to be rotational anyway, ask to come out if you can't give effort. I would take him later, and I'd like to have him on my team, but picking a guy at 12 to play one-third of the snaps---and not the most critical snaps---seems dicey.

It worked for Georgia!

I knew you'd take the Moss plays off ratio literally. Which BTW is three-quarters, not two-thirds.

I was saying Davis was off the field for two-thirds of the plays, and then taking plays off beyond that when he's on the field. And Georgia was stacked, and not playing against NFL teams. In today's NFL, with Davis off the field in nickel, even if his approach to conditioning changes (a dangerous assumption), he's not impacting the pass defense to a degree that merits choosing him at 12. Mark's point about occupying blockers only applies on base downs, which KOC and Donnatel have both said will be the minority of snaps.

If they choose him, he's my guy. But it doesn't align with what would seem to be the best use of a resource like the 12th pick.

In today's NFL, the Vikings were bottom feeders against the run. And before that they were gashed up the middle in the playoffs by SF to the tune of 186 yards. The regime should have an options to fix that.

He's not my #1 choice, but Davis should do well in the 3-4.

I also think he'll do well in the 3-4, but that will be the alignment on the minority of snaps, seemingly considerably so. That's why I would be reluctant to take him at 12. I'd be very interested to know how Donatell views the role/importance of the nose tackle in his scheme, and what his prototype is. I'm also curious about what a 3-4 DE should look/play like.

You certainly know a lot about not only Georgia's scheme, but our upcoming 3-4. Nonetheless, once Davis makes it 2nd and 9 there is merit on the snap thing.

This comes from KOC saying during a presser or interview that teams are in nickel two-thirds or three-quarters of the time, so the base alignment is less important than how you line up on passing downs. Don't get me wrong, I value run defense and I'd love to have Davis on the team, but not where we'd have to pick him.

Yeah Rap already covered it. Donatell's remarks.

I think Davis can play on passing downs.

Yes, it will still be a rotation and he won't play 80-90% of the downs like a starting CB but the guy can be a monster with some fine tuning.

Plus, I picked him in the Draft Challenge.[8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I just can't imagine we pass on cb at 12, whether it is Stingley or McDuffie...both are legit at 12

I agree with Phil that we shouldn't go WR in such a rich WR draft...but not on board with Davis at 12

corner or bust imo