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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2023 4:03:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I didnt mean to imply before that we cpuld find a franchise qb with third rd picks. you use whatever means you have at your disposal.

But you dont ignore taking chances … just because you cant load up this year and get inside the first 5-10 picks.


How high could a Hunter, Cleveland and own first get you? I have my doubts that we could get higher than 8-10. Maybe throw in next years 2nd?



The IOL sucks. Cleveland plays IOL.

#23, a low-ceiling run of the mill G coming upon FA, and a quagmire? You won't sniff the top 15.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2023 4:16:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I didnt mean to imply before that we cpuld find a franchise qb with third rd picks. you use whatever means you have at your disposal.

But you dont ignore taking chances … just because you cant load up this year and get inside the first 5-10 picks.


How high could a Hunter, Cleveland and own first get you? I have my doubts that we could get higher than 8-10. Maybe throw in next years 2nd?



The IOL sucks. Cleveland plays IOL.

#23, a low-ceiling run of the mill G coming upon FA, and a quagmire? You won't sniff the top 15.


Throw in next years 2nd, this years first, and Hunter. What would it take to get to the top 10?



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2023 4:39:26 PM)

Move Ingram to LG, draft a right guard.

Get the best FA CB out there, or trade for one, one that is still pretty young.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2023 5:18:28 PM)

I think this offseason its addition by subtraction. Not sure we can package anything for a more valuable pick or player. Its about chopping and streamlining as much as possible. Think yakuza and finger shortening. Atone for cap situation then move on.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2023 5:43:48 PM)

I propose one of Kirk’s non-throwing fingers. Bring some balance to the business side of that partnership, for however long it lasts.



Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2023 5:48:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.

Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???


[sm=yeahthat.gif]



bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2023 9:26:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.

Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 7:38:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen
Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.
Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.


I don't know if that is the ownership or GM....I think the defense should be torn down to the studs not the offense and they could still be competitive.



beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 8:34:58 AM)

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?



Pauldiercks1 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 9:08:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen
Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.
Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.


I don't know if that is the ownership or GM....I think the defense should be torn down to the studs not the offense and they could still be competitive.

It's absolutely ownership, that was made apparent when they made their coaching and GM hires last offseason. If anyone mentioned rebuild they moved on to the next guy.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 9:09:30 AM)

We are on the wrong side of the ledger. No assets. It's absurd to think we can get very high in the draft... and for what?

Pay no attention to the great Wilf behind the curtain, there won't be a competitive rebuild.

Let the pain begin (it should have started last year)!



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 9:13:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?

[:-]



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 9:30:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

I didnt mean to imply before that we cpuld find a franchise qb with third rd picks. you use whatever means you have at your disposal.

But you dont ignore taking chances … just because you cant load up this year and get inside the first 5-10 picks.


How high could a Hunter, Cleveland and own first get you? I have my doubts that we could get higher than 8-10. Maybe throw in next years 2nd?



The IOL sucks. Cleveland plays IOL.

#23, a low-ceiling run of the mill G coming upon FA, and a quagmire? You won't sniff the top 15.


Throw in next years 2nd, this years first, and Hunter. What would it take to get to the top 10?



GMs at the top of the draft are salivating.



beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 10:38:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?

[:-]


Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 11:08:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?

[:-]


Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.

Are there any other franchises besides us and the soccer team that the Wilfs could donate to help us get AZs pick?



Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 11:36:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen
Vikings need to blow up this team. Trade everyone they can for picks. The window is closed.
Keep Jefferson, Hockenson, Darrisaw, O'Neal, and a few young defensive players. Get rid of everyone else who is either old or overpaid including Cousins. If they can deal him, deal him. I'd love Trey Lance here. If he's bad we finish 5-12 and draft a QB next year. When was the last time the Vikings were in rebuild mode???

I agree with this path, and I did last year. It's the best chance to become SB worthy. However, ownership has consistently demonstrated that they won't allow this. They want to maintain competitiveness even if it prevents us from attaining greatness.


I don't know if that is the ownership or GM....I think the defense should be torn down to the studs not the offense and they could still be competitive.

It's absolutely ownership, that was made apparent when they made their coaching and GM hires last offseason. If anyone mentioned rebuild they moved on to the next guy.


Actually the fans want a team that competes and spends up to the cap....Keeping older vets at expensive contracts is a lack of communication between the FO and Ownership. Keeping Barr was Zimmer/Spielman not ownership same as Smith, Kendricks, etc.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 12:25:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?

[:-]


Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.


And somehow we will beat out teams right below #3 for that coveted pick? The hall monitor says no lunch for you and you get an F-.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 12:30:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?

[:-]


Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.

Are there any other franchises besides us and the soccer team that the Wilfs could donate to help us get AZs pick?


First it was moving up to the 8-10 range. Now trade for #3?

Meanwhile we need to shed $30 million in cap just to function.

Astounding.



beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 12:48:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

Too many QB needy teams... I don't think getting in the top 10 necessarily bags you the guy you want.
Do you really want to mortgage everything for the 3rd or 4th choice at qb in this draft... I don't think I would.

Houston 2
Indy 4
Seattle 5
Raiders 7
Atlanta 8
Carolina 9

(heck, even detroit at 6 could pick a qb if it's a guy they like)

Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?


THAT was your edit?

[:-]


Yes, I added the one spot that has any chance of getting a specific QB a team might have identified as "the guy"...

Didn't realize I needed to have it reviewed by the forum hall monitor first.


And somehow we will beat out teams right below #3 for that coveted pick? The hall monitor says no lunch for you and you get an F-.


Nailed it!

Yes, the jist is that moving up for a coveted QB this year would be astoundingly expensive...



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 1:06:31 PM)

Yes, astoundingly expensive is. Which is why your question "Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?" sounds so absurd.



beo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 2:11:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Yes, astoundingly expensive is. Which is why your question "Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?" sounds so absurd.


The general discussion was trading up in the top 10 to get a qb.

I expanded on it... saying basically you need to get higher than just top ten.
Then narrowed it down to the pick I thought you'd have to target.
And then asked the question... do you do it?

During the offseason... when not much is happening... some people like debating hypotheticals.
ymmv

Off season is from dreamers... I can't doom and gloom 24x7.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 2:38:37 PM)

In 2017, the Chiefs traded their #27, their 3rd rounder - 91st overall, and their 2018 first round pick to move to #10 and drafted Patrick Mahomes. KC did this even though they had a decent starting QB in Alex Smith who had thrown for 76 TDs and 28 INTs over the prior four seasons with KC. KC went 43-21 during those four years. In 2017, Alex Smith threw for 4042 yards, 26 TDs and 5 INTs. The team went 10-6 but lost in the first round of the playoffs. Alex Smith finished 1-4 in the playoffs for KC. KC had no problem trading Smith to Washington and going with Mahomes.

This is how you go from good to great. Yes for every Mahomes at #10 you'll get a few Blaine Gabberts and Matt Leinerts. But you have to try and you have to be willing to part ways with an Alex Smith. Sure we might not land a Mahomes but we are positively guaranteed to have our Alex Smith otherwise.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 2:38:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Yes, astoundingly expensive is. Which is why your question "Do you trade with Arizona for spot #3?" sounds so absurd.


The general discussion was trading up in the top 10 to get a qb.

I expanded on it... saying basically you need to get higher than just top ten.
Then narrowed it down to the pick I thought you'd have to target.
And then asked the question... do you do it?

During the offseason... when not much is happening... some people like debating hypotheticals.
ymmv

Off season is from dreamers... I can't doom and gloom 24x7.


OK, dream on!



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 3:54:29 PM)

I fully expect Cousins to be here for at least the next 2 years. He likes it here. Started a family here. Wants to retire a Viking. He's respected by the team and probably a good portion of coaches and the Wilfs.

If we find a guy at some point that is to supplant Cousins I wouldn't be surprised to see Kirk simply retire.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/23/2023 3:58:13 PM)

Kirk Cousins and the Vikings: Is there a contract extension that works for both?

https://www.startribune.com/kirk-cousins-minnesota-vikings-contract-extension-randball/600253834/



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