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Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 9:45:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I would have damn near everybody on the trading block The thing that scares me is KOM being the one that has to put it all back together again. This is the single biggest "oh S***" thing for me. We are trusting a guy who's never done it before, isn't a "football" guy and went in to a year with 13 wins with 1 year contracts on, arguably, the 3 most important positions in the game today. Not a recipe for future success by a long stretch. We will go in to the offseason, barring some major changes, with no edge rushers or QB. I'm sorry but WTF is he doing?

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:02:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I would have damn near everybody on the trading block The thing that scares me is KOM being the one that has to put it all back together again. This is the single biggest "oh S***" thing for me. We are trusting a guy who's never done it before, isn't a "football" guy and went in to a year with 13 wins with 1 year contracts on, arguably, the 3 most important positions in the game today. Not a recipe for future success by a long stretch. We will go in to the offseason, barring some major changes, with no edge rushers or QB. I'm sorry but WTF is he doing? Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE. Cut Ham. IMO pass rusher for next year is an offseason worry.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:06:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I would have damn near everybody on the trading block The thing that scares me is KOM being the one that has to put it all back together again. This is the single biggest "oh S***" thing for me. We are trusting a guy who's never done it before, isn't a "football" guy and went in to a year with 13 wins with 1 year contracts on, arguably, the 3 most important positions in the game today. Not a recipe for future success by a long stretch. We will go in to the offseason, barring some major changes, with no edge rushers or QB. I'm sorry but WTF is he doing? But, but Kwesi made it clear it's a collaborative effort, and everyone was on board with Cine. A born BS artist. As for not having a QB and edge rushers signed, I don't think they will fit into the future cap. But don't worry, they will live on spiritually in the dead cap world: Cousins 28.5 million Hunter 15 million Davenport 7 million Total 50.5 million dead cap for those three.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:06:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Future decisions remain in the hands of a pair of shady and criminal real estate investors/property managers and a former commodities trader. This is a real thing and it scares me too. Not so much the inexperienced GM because A. He might end up being good. B. He might be terrible and still get lucky. What scares me are the Wilfs. They don't give two craps about the success of the team and they don't even give a half-a-crap about the fans. They had a chance to build a world-class stadium in Arden Hills that would have had tailgating parking, easier accessibility, and the stadium itself would have had a larger footprint so that the inside could have actually had proper concourses and adequate restrooms. Instead, we got US Bank Stadium - a beautiful piece of eye-candy with terrible amenities, shoulder-to-shoulder concourses, about half the restrooms required, and slow mediocre concessions. There is terrible traffic in and out, virtually no tailgating, expensive parking and the biggest choke-point in the history of NFL stadiums - the big doors. The Wilfs are fine with this though because we all line up to shovel our money at their fat pig faces as fast and furiously as we can. The gameday experience is nearly completely lost on me. I look forward to visiting opposing team stadiums and sell more than half of my home tickets. The Wilfs stadium experence strategy is simple: Get those fools and their money packed into our tiny little stadium as early as possible. Eliminate any kind of fun they might be having outside so they have no choice but to come in and drink our $11 beers and eat our school-cafeteria quality food for $28. Let them stand in line for 20 minutes to use a restroom even during the middle of the third quarter. F 'EM!!! The dumb fools just keep lining up to shovel us their money ha ha ha ha.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:10:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: fmaltes One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year. On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB. For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump. I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers That's not necessarily true. In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years. In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015 In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019 In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021. You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother. You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories. And I'd take the Giants history. Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then. LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking. Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:16:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Future decisions remain in the hands of a pair of shady and criminal real estate investors/property managers and a former commodities trader. This is a real thing and it scares me too. Not so much the inexperienced GM because A. He might end up being good. B. He might be terrible and still get lucky. What scares me are the Wilfs. They don't give two craps about the success of the team and they don't even give a half-a-crap about the fans. They had a chance to build a world-class stadium in Arden Hills that would have had tailgating parking, easier accessibility, and the stadium itself would have had a larger footprint so that the inside could have actually had proper concourses and adequate restrooms. Instead, we got US Bank Stadium - a beautiful piece of eye-candy with terrible amenities, shoulder-to-shoulder concourses, about half the restrooms required, and slow mediocre concessions. There is terrible traffic in and out, virtually no tailgating, expensive parking and the biggest choke-point in the history of NFL stadiums - the big doors. The Wilfs are fine with this though because we all line up to shovel our money at their fat pig faces as fast and furiously as we can. The gameday experience is nearly completely lost on me. I look forward to visiting opposing team stadiums and sell more than half of my home tickets. The Wilfs stadium experence strategy is simple: Get those fools and their money packed into our tiny little stadium as early as possible. Eliminate any kind of fun they might be having outside so they have no choice but to come in and drink our $11 beers and eat our school-cafeteria quality food for $28. Let them stand in line for 20 minutes to use a restroom even during the middle of the third quarter. F 'EM!!! The dumb fools just keep lining up to shovel us their money ha ha ha ha. Not to mention the hundreds of millions in public funding to build that stadium. As an aside, I don't think the stadium is aging well in terms of 'eye candy'. Saw something saying it is one of the ugliest buildings in the nation.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:26:57 AM)
I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:33:50 AM)
Krammer: Through Week 5, Vikings have NFL's fewest first-quarter points w/ three Kirk Cousins has run 11 plays w/ a first-half lead “We need to start faster,” Cousins said. “First quarters need to be better. We need to protect the football. We need to make plays when they’re there.”

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:46:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: fmaltes One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year. On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB. For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump. I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers That's not necessarily true. In 2000 the Patriots went 5-11. In the 2001 draft they got Richard Seymour and Matt Light. They won the Super Bowl in 2001 and obviously many more years. In 2010 the Denver Broncos went 4-12. In 2011 they drafted Von Miller. They won the Super Bowl in 2015 In 2012 the Chiefs went 2-14. In 2013 they got Andy Reid as a new coach and drafted Eric Fisher and Travis Kelce. They won the Super Bowl in 2019 In 2016 the Rams went 4-12. In 2017 they drafted Cooper Kupp. They won the Super Bowl in 2021. You picked 4 teams that have a great history.....how many coaches did the Lions, Texans, Jets, Bears, Bills, Giants, and Jaguars go thru? Agreeing to be a coach or gm on a forced rebuild or tank job is like being a pawn for eviction night on Big Brother. You picked several teams with lousy histories to argue your point that he picked several teams with great histories. And I'd take the Giants history. Of course you would; you want to tank. Hire back Les Steckel and a shit GM then. LMAO, 5 days ago Phil was on his high horse criticizing tanking. Now he says: Start by trading the assets away that we probably can't keep and have value....Davenport, Smith, Hicks, Cleveland, and our 2nd TE. You know there is a difference now that Jjeff is hurt and we may be 1-6, 2-7 versus 1-3...but then again maybe you don't.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 10:53:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:01:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. Can he learn from this. Let's hope so. We have no reason to believe he can or can't.

timz -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:06:23 AM)
When Kwesi was hired I put a post on this board questioning the hiring of someone out of the Cleveland organization, one of the few franchises with less success over the years than MN. I was mocked and run off the board. Fans are sure singing a different tune now.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:08:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:19:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft Kfan broke it down one afternoon. I seem to recall a lot of guys have started a ton of games. Vikings could have used some starters.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:22:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft Kfan broke it down one afternoon. I seem to recall a lot of guys have started a ton of games. Vikings could have used some starters. OJ McDuffie looked good against us but any draft with minimal pro bowlers in the first two rounds; looks thin.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:28:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: timz When Kwesi was hired I put a post on this board questioning the hiring of someone out of the Cleveland organization, one of the few franchises with less success over the years than MN. I was mocked and run off the board. Fans are sure singing a different tune now. If you were mocked, it was because he spent 6 years with SF and then 1 with CLE. Not being Spielman outweighed any other factor.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:31:38 AM)
This is one person's regrading of 2022 first round of the draft.. https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/10k59gn/regrading_the_2022_nfl_draft/

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:39:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft It was a tremendous draft if you use your own copyrighted draft criteria: anyone with starts, even horrible starters = great draft pick. Sadly, even by that standard, we get a fail. Can you please amend your standard to include ‘showing improvement on special teams’? Maybe give Kwesi a shot …

timz -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:40:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: timz When Kwesi was hired I put a post on this board questioning the hiring of someone out of the Cleveland organization, one of the few franchises with less success over the years than MN. I was mocked and run off the board. Fans are sure singing a different tune now. If you were mocked, it was because he spent 6 years with SF and then 1 with CLE. Not being Spielman outweighed any other factor. So the next GM hire I suppose not being Kwesi will outweigh any other factor. Hell of a way to hire.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:42:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft Kfan broke it down one afternoon. I seem to recall a lot of guys have started a ton of games. Vikings could have used some starters. Pro Bowls are meaningless. Quality players taken between #12 (our original spot) and #42 (our eventual last spot) are numerous to say the least: 13 Jordan Davis DT - game changer 14 Kyle Hamiltion S - quality safety 17 Zion Johnson OG - starter 20 Kenny Pickett QB - starter 21 Trent McDuffie CB - starter 22 Quay Walker LB - starter 24 Tyler Smith OT - starter 25 Tyler Linderbaum C - starter 27 Devin LLoyd LB - starter 31 Daxton HIll S - starter 34 Christian Watson WR - starter 35 Roger McCreary CB - starter 36 Breece Hall RB - starter 37 Jalen Pitre S - starter 41 Kenneth Walker III RB - starter

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 11:58:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft It was a tremendous draft if you use your own copyrighted draft criteria: anyone with starts, even horrible starters = great draft pick. Sadly, even by that standard, we get a fail. Can you please amend your standard to include ‘showing improvement on special teams’? Maybe give Kwesi a shot … Ingram is a horrible starter? Evans is a horrible starter? Usually 1st and 2nd round have pro bowlers and there is but one so far. When you look at that draft it isn't only underwelming for our team.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 12:08:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: timz quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: timz When Kwesi was hired I put a post on this board questioning the hiring of someone out of the Cleveland organization, one of the few franchises with less success over the years than MN. I was mocked and run off the board. Fans are sure singing a different tune now. If you were mocked, it was because he spent 6 years with SF and then 1 with CLE. Not being Spielman outweighed any other factor. So the next GM hire I suppose not being Kwesi will outweigh any other factor. Hell of a way to hire. No dumbass. I refuted your original post ... which you ignored ... There are a ton of variables ... which fans have no control over. The only certainty at the time was that Spielman had to go. I can spell this out for you again differently if that one also flies over your head.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 12:18:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft It was a tremendous draft if you use your own copyrighted draft criteria: anyone with starts, even horrible starters = great draft pick. Sadly, even by that standard, we get a fail. Can you please amend your standard to include ‘showing improvement on special teams’? Maybe give Kwesi a shot … Ingram is a horrible starter? Evans is a horrible starter? Usually 1st and 2nd round have pro bowlers and there is but one so far. When you look at that draft it isn't only underwelming for our team. Bill's original post was for the first two rounds. My post was mostly about Cine ... but hanging your hat on Ingram - out of Cine-Booth-Ingram - is still a fail. (Evans is also a fail until, 1) he stops deflecting passes to WRs in the endzone or, 2) he shows he can stay on the field).

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 12:30:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen I feel strongly the 2022 offseason, Kwesi's first, set this franchise back years. There were two types of failures: - A strategic failure by supposedly trying to competitively rebuild. - Operational failures like totally f****** up the draft's 1st round pick and pair of 2nd round picks, paying more to Cousins, etc. I hate trading back, take the best person available. Kwesi seemed to go out of the way to show everybody he was the smartest person in the room, looking at all the studs he passed over for his duds made him look like a complete idiot. The 2022 draft hasn't really been that great outside of the Ravens safety. Sauce Gardner is the only pro bowler so far from the first two rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_NFL_Draft It was a tremendous draft if you use your own copyrighted draft criteria: anyone with starts, even horrible starters = great draft pick. Sadly, even by that standard, we get a fail. Can you please amend your standard to include ‘showing improvement on special teams’? Maybe give Kwesi a shot … Ingram is a horrible starter? Evans is a horrible starter? Usually 1st and 2nd round have pro bowlers and there is but one so far. When you look at that draft it isn't only underwelming for our team. Bill's original post was for the first two rounds. My post was mostly about Cine ... but hanging your hat on Ingram - out of Cine-Booth-Ingram - is still a fail. (Evans is also a fail until, 1) he stops deflecting passes to WRs in the endzone or, 2) he shows he can stay on the field). Absolutely agree. If it's left to questioning whether Ingram is horrible as the only defense for the Cine-Booth-Ingram failures, then yeah those picks pretty much suck. It takes a special poster to conjure that up! Years of defending Spielman and now posts like these that as a minimum indirectly defend Kwesi make it clear his thought process is based on living vicariously through management.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/10/2023 12:31:24 PM)
JMO but the most head exploding thing about that draft is that he passed on the #1 (consensus rated) S to drop back, give a division rival a homerun hitter, to take a SAFETY that can't find his way on the field. It's just [:-][sm=scratch.gif][sm=paperbag.gif][X(]

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