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Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 9:24:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer Still trying to understand going for it on 4th twice on the last drive only to totally play for a fg. Mind boggling. 1st and 10 at the 12 yard line with a chance to ice the game. Mattison for nothing, Chandler for nothing, a weak short inc pass that stops the clock. After being super aggressive to get there. If you play action roll out on 1st down, Dobbs can probably run to the 5(with his speed). Then we have all kinds of options. If it was under 2 minutes and Denver has 1 or no timeouts, then do the vanilla runs.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 9:28:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer Still trying to understand going for it on 4th twice on the last drive only to totally play for a fg. Mind boggling. 1st and 10 at the 12 yard line with a chance to ice the game. Mattison for nothing, Chandler for nothing, a weak short inc pass that stops the clock. After being super aggressive to get there. If you play action roll out on 1st down, Dobbs can probably run to the 5(with his speed). Then we have all kinds of options. If it was under 2 minutes and Denver has 1 or no timeouts, then do the vanilla runs. Some pass run out of the shot gun would of been my call. Something safe or run it. Worse case, same as two up the gut for nothing.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 9:43:01 AM)
This team can beat any team, and it can lose to any team. It wouldn't surprise if they have a tough time getting up for the Bears next week, and end up losing that game.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 9:44:38 AM)
It doesn't seem like the Vikings are used to playing with leads late in the 3rd quarter, or in the 4th quarter. They need to get better at keeping the lead, and closing the door on teams.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 9:46:40 AM)
It was interesting that KOC stated at halftime he was expecting the game to go down to the wire, and made no mention of, unless we can put the game away sooner. It's what you call out to the universe. Did the Vikings turn the ball over on their first possession?

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 10:03:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty It was interesting that KOC stated at halftime he was expecting the game to go down to the wire, and made no mention of, unless we can put the game away sooner. It's what you call out to the universe. Did the Vikings turn the ball over on their first possession? Give him credit. He knows who he is. A guy that has no clue how to put a team away. Ever.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 10:05:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M This team is fools gold. I don't know. JJ will make things easier on everybody if he ever plays again. Like Todd said. 98%! Might as well shut him down till after the bye. Did they say he was 98%? Maybe he will be after the bye. Any criticism will be met with "Hamstrings are tricky" Right. No one is changing their mind, and that's all right, it's not like we get points for it. Ive had a bad one and a real bad one, where I heard the pop, I know I ain't changing my mind.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 10:40:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Speaking of Pace, he had a defensive holding late to go along with with the offensive penalties. All told, six penalties which isn't terrible but they were mostly tough to overcome. On the Denver TD drive, Flores was abused as they repeatedly went to the RB for good gains. It looked as if they were saving those plays, and led to 'I've seen this script before and the ending is bad'. Flores may have some master plan to intentionally adjust the scheme in-season, but more likely it's going to be more of the same high percentage 3-man rush + high-percentage blitzing. Addison is good but Surtain added perspective as to where Addison is. Would have liked to see JJ in so that Addison could have been more of a factor. Pass blocking was bad. If Dobbs was a statue he would have been sacked at least five times. Solid. Payton talked in the media about studying Flores the week before the game and sounded smug. I was elated to see his offrnse settle for FGs again and again and again. But the last sequence was too easy, schematically. I was not impressed with Denver at all but they obviously had something in their backup that they didn’t pull out until their endgame. Maybe Addison will beef up as he goes along in an nfl training program but he is simply too easy to out muscle right now … his movement skills are so elite its jarring to see him ragdolled on plays. Cousins’ accuracy / ball placement are so much better than Dobbs on an average play … which is why I think Addison was popping. Dobbs sloppier up for grabs throws Addison is seeing right now isnt taking advantage of the space he creates. JJ on the hand … is going to be an absolute lunatic with extended plays, backfoot floaters, ball wrestling catches, etc.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 10:47:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Speaking of Pace, he had a defensive holding late to go along with with the offensive penalties. All told, six penalties which isn't terrible but they were mostly tough to overcome. On the Denver TD drive, Flores was abused as they repeatedly went to the RB for good gains. It looked as if they were saving those plays, and led to 'I've seen this script before and the ending is bad'. Flores may have some master plan to intentionally adjust the scheme in-season, but more likely it's going to be more of the same high percentage 3-man rush + high-percentage blitzing. Addison is good but Surtain added perspective as to where Addison is. Would have liked to see JJ in so that Addison could have been more of a factor. Pass blocking was bad. If Dobbs was a statue he would have been sacked at least five times. Solid. Payton talked in the media about studying Flores the week before the game and sounded smug. I was elated to see his offrnse settle for FGs again and again and again. But the last sequence was too easy, schematically. I was not impressed with Denver at all but they obviously had something in their backup that they didn’t pull out until their endgame. Maybe Addison will beef up as he goes along in an nfl training program but he is simply too easy to out muscle right now … his movement skills are so elite its jarring to see him ragdolled on plays. Cousins’ accuracy / ball placement are so much better than Dobbs on an average play … which is why I think Addison was popping. Dobbs sloppier up for grabs throws Addison is seeing right now isnt taking advantage of the space he creates. JJ on the hand … is going to be an absolute lunatic with extended plays, backfoot floaters, ball wrestling catches, etc. JJ will make everyone's job easier. KOC seems self aware enough to know that he needs to be more Dan Campbell, less Mike Zimmer. Press needs to remind him if he doesn't.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 11:15:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Speaking of Pace, he had a defensive holding late to go along with with the offensive penalties. All told, six penalties which isn't terrible but they were mostly tough to overcome. On the Denver TD drive, Flores was abused as they repeatedly went to the RB for good gains. It looked as if they were saving those plays, and led to 'I've seen this script before and the ending is bad'. Flores may have some master plan to intentionally adjust the scheme in-season, but more likely it's going to be more of the same high percentage 3-man rush + high-percentage blitzing. Addison is good but Surtain added perspective as to where Addison is. Would have liked to see JJ in so that Addison could have been more of a factor. Pass blocking was bad. If Dobbs was a statue he would have been sacked at least five times. Solid. Payton talked in the media about studying Flores the week before the game and sounded smug. I was elated to see his offrnse settle for FGs again and again and again. But the last sequence was too easy, schematically. I was not impressed with Denver at all but they obviously had something in their backup that they didn’t pull out until their endgame. Maybe Addison will beef up as he goes along in an nfl training program but he is simply too easy to out muscle right now … his movement skills are so elite its jarring to see him ragdolled on plays. Cousins’ accuracy / ball placement are so much better than Dobbs on an average play … which is why I think Addison was popping. Dobbs sloppier up for grabs throws Addison is seeing right now isnt taking advantage of the space he creates. JJ on the hand … is going to be an absolute lunatic with extended plays, backfoot floaters, ball wrestling catches, etc. JJ will make everyone's job easier. KOC seems self aware enough to know that he needs to be more Dan Campbell, less Mike Zimmer. Press needs to remind him if he doesn't. Yes JJ ofcourse … but right now we have Add and KJ who are not going to outbattle anybody. Tough for Doobs as he gets acclimated. (hence the connection with Hock) KOC seems more like an element of surprise guy, picks and chooses his ‘all-in’ plays … he’s no Jimmy Johnson go for throat and kick em when they’re down guy.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 11:33:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Speaking of Pace, he had a defensive holding late to go along with with the offensive penalties. All told, six penalties which isn't terrible but they were mostly tough to overcome. On the Denver TD drive, Flores was abused as they repeatedly went to the RB for good gains. It looked as if they were saving those plays, and led to 'I've seen this script before and the ending is bad'. Flores may have some master plan to intentionally adjust the scheme in-season, but more likely it's going to be more of the same high percentage 3-man rush + high-percentage blitzing. Addison is good but Surtain added perspective as to where Addison is. Would have liked to see JJ in so that Addison could have been more of a factor. Pass blocking was bad. If Dobbs was a statue he would have been sacked at least five times. Solid. Payton talked in the media about studying Flores the week before the game and sounded smug. I was elated to see his offrnse settle for FGs again and again and again. But the last sequence was too easy, schematically. I was not impressed with Denver at all but they obviously had something in their backup that they didn’t pull out until their endgame. Maybe Addison will beef up as he goes along in an nfl training program but he is simply too easy to out muscle right now … his movement skills are so elite its jarring to see him ragdolled on plays. Cousins’ accuracy / ball placement are so much better than Dobbs on an average play … which is why I think Addison was popping. Dobbs sloppier up for grabs throws Addison is seeing right now isnt taking advantage of the space he creates. JJ on the hand … is going to be an absolute lunatic with extended plays, backfoot floaters, ball wrestling catches, etc. JJ will make everyone's job easier. KOC seems self aware enough to know that he needs to be more Dan Campbell, less Mike Zimmer. Press needs to remind him if he doesn't. The press, lol. They are lightweights still mortified by Jerry Burns' outburst: https://youtu.be/Y7dDDRSigfs That rant is sooo underrated. Certainly top 5 all-time, all-sports. If he had thrown something, then hands down #1 overall. Hilariously, he departs the podium with a random "F******".

Nate -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 1:15:26 PM)
Well, I had the unfortunate pleasure of watching all that fun from the south stands in Denver last night. I basically had much the same opinions, bad playcalling, pathetic turnovers, soft D at the end of half and game, turtle mode for FGs, garbage penaties, or lackthereof. I must say, the refs were atrocious, some home cooking going on there for sure. From the endzone view, we did have downfield WRs that were open. Dobbs had some pressure on a few of those plays but in general he was pretty happy to check down to TEs and RBs rather than attempt to make an accurate throw downfield. I really like his mobility and how it changes games and play calls, but he'll have to start going downfield more or we'll see that same defensive gameplan each week. Had to sit in traffic for 2.5 hours, mulling over that crapfest of a game. Hard to be positive after that one, I need a couple days to adjust my attitude. >_<

Nate -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 1:17:18 PM)
on the plus side, there were so many vikings fans there, all in various levels of garb. It was fun to do the skol chant in the opposing stadium. Lots of purple people out there, we represent!

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 1:38:59 PM)
Frustrating loss last night, for sure. Guess just years of being a jaded Viking, fan but pretty much played out as i expected the longer the game went on. Some random thoughts - I know Flores defense got beat late, but still crazy what he's been able to do with this unit. It has to be incredibly difficult for these guy to be in the right places after all their switches at the line, etc., but they continue to do it. - The run defense continues to be pretty darn good. I was pretty harsh on this D line early in the season, but they are getting done. Jevonte Williams in no joke. - Russel Wilson is so washed. Little annoying losing to him at this point in his career. Denver is going nowhere, and I"m sure at this point, they are trying to figure out the best way to get out of his awful contract. He killed them dinking an dunking, he has no deep ball. Bad DB play all night vs soft balls iMO. - Our DBs just looked bad across the board. Not sure what Blackmon was doing on that Sutton TD, like he just watched the play happen in front of him. We have a thing with our CBs constantly getting Mossed. Mettelus drop was big. One thing I will say, is I don't know if I remember any PI calls on our secondary this year. Pretty crazy really. We have to be amongst the least penalized team in the league, in that area. - IOL seemed awful last night, particularly in pass protection. Bradbury has no more ceiling, and we need to upgrade C badly. For all the hype on Risner, he showing maybe why he was sitting on his couch. He's not all that. - Dobbs has been fun, but against a good D on the road, he showed his limitations. We have virtually no vertical passing game, but running Powell, Addison, KJ, you aint' gonna win me deep balls IMO. Those heaves are just diving me nuts. Needless to say he will pay big time for those eventually. - Needless to say, was not a fan of running it twice late in the game at the 10 yard line. - I guess at the end of the day, the game wasn't too costly. They ain't catching the Lions and that roster, but really just a matter of holding onto that 3rd playoff spot. The Bengals in Cincy without Burrow, will be no cake walk. That's still a very good roster. - For me this is a bonus year anyway. I thought the team was highly overrated last year. this team may be better in a weird sort of way. You can see some corner stones of the future. The team will be in very good cap shape going into next year. Still need to get QB figured out. 23 draft looking better than 22. Let's just hope 22 is the anomaly and not 23

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 1:44:40 PM)
re: bad play calling, specifically 2 runs from Den 12 on 1st and 2nd, 4th q I thought, think, bs myself But i can't forget this piece of wisdom: you're a genius when it works, an idiot when it don't

Arlowe84 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 1:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J re: bad play calling, specifically 2 runs from Den 12 on 1st and 2nd, 4th q I thought, think, bs myself But i can't forget this piece of wisdom: you're a genius when it works, an idiot when it don't I guess the argument for was we were gashing them all night. But think I like my odds passing from the 12 yard line in that condensed area. You're paying Hockensen big money to go up and make a play in the end zone.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 2:03:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 Not sure what Blackmon was doing on that Sutton TD, like he just watched the play happen in front of him. I am sure he just got outjumped and Sutton won the contested ball battle because Blackmon did get his hands on the ball and tried to rip it away. Like their DBs did to Hockenson twice on our last drive... Blackmon just failed to rip it away.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 2:05:52 PM)
We turned the ball over. we go no turnovers. We coughed it up like 4 times. Just like we started the season, we had this game in the bag, we just kept giving the ball back to Denver and they capitalized just enough to beat us. We need to clean up the turnovers. We probably only have 1 or 2 losses if we don't turn the ball over so much.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 2:24:56 PM)
Dobbs accuracy definitely needs work. He's often a bit too high or a bit too behind his target. Maybe more reps with his teammates will help that some. Or maybe its a ceiling on his ability. I still think he's a very good candidate to be a "bridge QB" with us drafting a rookie, but Dobbs himself is likely not the long-term answer. That said, I don't want to judge Dobbs too harshly on last night. His fumble on the first drive was the result of a blatant dirty hit that went uncalled. And his INT was directly caused by Chandler completely missing his block. But even with that, Denver had made top QBs look like crap the previous 2 weeks. MIN: Dobbs: 221 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. BUF: Allen: 177 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. KC: Mahomes: 240 Passing Yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. 0 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 2:45:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J re: bad play calling, specifically 2 runs from Den 12 on 1st and 2nd, 4th q I thought, think, bs myself But i can't forget this piece of wisdom: you're a genius when it works, an idiot when it don't I guess the argument for was we were gashing them all night. But think I like my odds passing from the 12 yard line in that condensed area. You're paying Hockensen big money to go up and make a play in the end zone. So do I

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 2:48:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Dobbs accuracy definitely needs work. He's often a bit too high or a bit too behind his target. Maybe more reps with his teammates will help that some. Or maybe its a ceiling on his ability. I still think he's a very good candidate to be a "bridge QB" with us drafting a rookie, but Dobbs himself is likely not the long-term answer. That said, I don't want to judge Dobbs too harshly on last night. His fumble on the first drive was the result of a blatant dirty hit that went uncalled. And his INT was directly caused by Chandler completely missing his block. But even with that, Denver had made top QBs look like crap the previous 2 weeks. MIN: Dobbs: 221 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. BUF: Allen: 177 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. KC: Mahomes: 240 Passing Yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. 0 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. That's all reasonable. Rough around the edges for sure ... another three games min. to see if its familiarity with the system+players or ceiling. Hard to know if the play calling or his decision-making ended up keeping the field short to medium. Needed to go downfield more. Its nice that he's not panicky in the pocket - if anything, he's almost too comfortable with the quick flip at the last milli-second while in the grasp. Maybe his decisiveness will improve with more familiarity also. It should.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 2:58:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Dobbs accuracy definitely needs work. He's often a bit too high or a bit too behind his target. Maybe more reps with his teammates will help that some. Or maybe its a ceiling on his ability. I still think he's a very good candidate to be a "bridge QB" with us drafting a rookie, but Dobbs himself is likely not the long-term answer. That said, I don't want to judge Dobbs too harshly on last night. His fumble on the first drive was the result of a blatant dirty hit that went uncalled. And his INT was directly caused by Chandler completely missing his block. But even with that, Denver had made top QBs look like crap the previous 2 weeks. MIN: Dobbs: 221 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. BUF: Allen: 177 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. KC: Mahomes: 240 Passing Yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. 0 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. Yep

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 3:01:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arlowe84 quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J re: bad play calling, specifically 2 runs from Den 12 on 1st and 2nd, 4th q I thought, think, bs myself But i can't forget this piece of wisdom: you're a genius when it works, an idiot when it don't I guess the argument for was we were gashing them all night. But think I like my odds passing from the 12 yard line in that condensed area. You're paying Hockensen big money to go up and make a play in the end zone. Where have we had success in goal to goal situations? When Dobbs rolls out with run pass option or just his scrambling. We just ran 2 basic running plays into a stacked box.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 3:08:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Dobbs accuracy definitely needs work. He's often a bit too high or a bit too behind his target. Maybe more reps with his teammates will help that some. Or maybe its a ceiling on his ability. I still think he's a very good candidate to be a "bridge QB" with us drafting a rookie, but Dobbs himself is likely not the long-term answer. That said, I don't want to judge Dobbs too harshly on last night. His fumble on the first drive was the result of a blatant dirty hit that went uncalled. And his INT was directly caused by Chandler completely missing his block. But even with that, Denver had made top QBs look like crap the previous 2 weeks. MIN: Dobbs: 221 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. BUF: Allen: 177 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. KC: Mahomes: 240 Passing Yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. 0 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. That's all reasonable. Rough around the edges for sure ... another three games min. to see if its familiarity with the system+players or ceiling. Hard to know if the play calling or his decision-making ended up keeping the field short to medium. Needed to go downfield more. Its nice that he's not panicky in the pocket - if anything, he's almost too comfortable with the quick flip at the last milli-second while in the grasp. Maybe his decisiveness will improve with more familiarity also. It should. Its easy to forget that yesterday was his 12th career start. And he has only attempted more than 5 passes in a game 2 other times (once was 2 weeks ago).

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/20/2023 3:11:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine Dobbs accuracy definitely needs work. He's often a bit too high or a bit too behind his target. Maybe more reps with his teammates will help that some. Or maybe its a ceiling on his ability. I still think he's a very good candidate to be a "bridge QB" with us drafting a rookie, but Dobbs himself is likely not the long-term answer. That said, I don't want to judge Dobbs too harshly on last night. His fumble on the first drive was the result of a blatant dirty hit that went uncalled. And his INT was directly caused by Chandler completely missing his block. But even with that, Denver had made top QBs look like crap the previous 2 weeks. MIN: Dobbs: 221 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. BUF: Allen: 177 Passing Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT. 1 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. KC: Mahomes: 240 Passing Yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. 0 Rushing TD, 1 Lost Fumble. How bad would it look for the game officials if Jackson gets suspended again as a repeat offender?

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