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Murph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 9:55:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Trade JJ and move up in the draft for the guy they want. Start him.


If you are going to go with a rookie QB... give him a chance with a strong receiving corp.

If that is the plan (and I'd love to see it), I'd keep JJ.

JJ at the dominant #1, Addision playing the #2 or slot and you make it much easier for the QB to grow.


While the value is difficult to know, people don't address what you could get in return for trading JJ. Picks and players seems reasonable. No guarantees, but a young QB could benefit from:

- Shoring up the IOL with a proven player.
- A 1st round WR to pair with Let's Get Paid.
- $30-35 million in annual cap to use on another IOL player and elsewhere.
- A versatile RB.


I don't know if Kwesi and Brez can pull this off but this would be my plan if feasible:

Let Cousins walk

Trade O'Neill

Sign: Jefferson, Darrisaw and Hunter, all without no trade clauses. I know he's more expensive but I'd prefer Hunter to Cousins and O'Neill

Trade up in the first for QB



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 10:04:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Trade JJ and move up in the draft for the guy they want. Start him.


If you are going to go with a rookie QB... give him a chance with a strong receiving corp.

If that is the plan (and I'd love to see it), I'd keep JJ.

JJ at the dominant #1, Addision playing the #2 or slot and you make it much easier for the QB to grow.


While the value is difficult to know, people don't address what you could get in return for trading JJ. Picks and players seems reasonable. No guarantees, but a young QB could benefit from:

- Shoring up the IOL with a proven player.
- A 1st round WR to pair with Let's Get Paid.
- $30-35 million in annual cap to use on another IOL player and elsewhere.
- A versatile RB.


I don't know if Kwesi and Brez can pull this off but this would be my plan if feasible:

Let Cousins walk

Trade O'Neill

Sign: Jefferson, Darrisaw and Hunter, all without no trade clauses. I know he's more expensive but I'd prefer Hunter to Cousins and O'Neill

Trade up in the first for QB


Yeah, O'Neill is going to cost $24 million in each of the next three years. Part of that is due to I think a couple of renegotiations to allow the team to get more cap, but it's basically a later-year Spielman contract.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 10:16:58 AM)

O'Neill basically gets 10% of the cap the next three years.

He's certainly valuable but has regressed in penalties and sacks allowed since his best season in 2021.



jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 10:36:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

O'Neill basically gets 10% of the cap the next three years.

He's certainly valuable but has regressed in penalties and sacks allowed since his best season in 2021.

Seems reasonable. For, say, 25 starter types (22 plus another CB, WR, etc.), average would get 4% of cap. Got to have some good drafts to balance off those expensive players with solid, low-price, first contract players plus a bunch of cheap replacement level types. I assume Kwesi's analytics team has run the numbers.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 10:41:51 AM)

It fn sucks that management and “ Marty” thinks chasing the shiny Wr or DE or RB or DB or IOL is the key to getting out of the 63 and counting rut…

Dan, I have no idea why you're misrepresenting my position. I have stated several times that QB is the most important position, and that I would trade JJ or Hunter, and a future 1st round pick to move up in the draft to get a QB.

I was excited about Caleb Williams, until he lost several games, but his defense doesn't help him much. It sounds like there are several good prospects this year.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 12:51:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Hmmm
Opinion
Now
Did I pass?




Nope. You're a Vikings fan so you ran it up the gut for no gain [:D]



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 1:22:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Hmmm
Opinion
Now
Did I pass?


Nope. You're a Vikings fan so you ran it up the gut for no gain [:D]

ha ha. Good one!

If Mattison only would of popped one of those for 6 yards it'd of been a quiet week



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/2/2023 2:56:01 PM)

Great line, Jesser. [8|]



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/3/2023 8:48:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Trade JJ and move up in the draft for the guy they want. Start him.


If you are going to go with a rookie QB... give him a chance with a strong receiving corp.

If that is the plan (and I'd love to see it), I'd keep JJ.

JJ at the dominant #1, Addision playing the #2 or slot and you make it much easier for the QB to grow.


While the value is difficult to know, people don't address what you could get in return for trading JJ. Picks and players seems reasonable. No guarantees, but a young QB could benefit from:

- Shoring up the IOL with a proven player.
- A 1st round WR to pair with Let's Get Paid.
- $30-35 million in annual cap to use on another IOL player and elsewhere.
- A versatile RB.


I don't know if Kwesi and Brez can pull this off but this would be my plan if feasible:

Let Cousins walk

Trade O'Neill

Sign: Jefferson, Darrisaw and Hunter, all without no trade clauses. I know he's more expensive but I'd prefer Hunter to Cousins and O'Neill

Trade up in the first for QB

This could end up being one of the great quarterback classes of all times. No need to move up that far.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/3/2023 10:20:02 AM)

No need to move up that far.

Agree. Not "my list" but the general consensus is that these are the guys that can go in the first:

Williams
May
Nix
Penix
McCarthy
Ewers
Daniels


I don't think Sanders is coming out so left him off. Haven't seen much of Daniels to comment but he has great stats. Everyone else, I've watched a good bit of. I would say hell no to Nix, Ewers and McCarthy for various reasons. Penix is my favorite guy but the injury history scares me a bit.



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/3/2023 3:34:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

No need to move up that far.

Agree. Not "my list" but the general consensus is that these are the guys that can go in the first:

Williams
May
Nix
Penix
McCarthy
Ewers
Daniels


I don't think Sanders is coming out so left him off. Haven't seen much of Daniels to comment but he has great stats. Everyone else, I've watched a good bit of. I would say hell no to Nix, Ewers and McCarthy for various reasons. Penix is my favorite guy but the injury history scares me a bit.

Williams
Maye
Daniels
McCarthy
Nix
Penix
Ewers

That's my order right now. I've see Penix a few times lately. Not sure about the side arm delivery.

McCarthy has a cannon. Underrated because Michigan doesn't pass much.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/3/2023 10:33:57 PM)

Hard to find a worse no call than the non-called PI on GB on the play at the :50 mark.

Crazy they let that stuff go.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/3/2023 10:41:04 PM)

Is that the Lambeau advantage, or was it a makeup no call because the Chiefs shouldn't have gotten the earlier PI on the drive, nor the hit in bounds on Mahomes ?



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/3/2023 11:02:19 PM)

The hit on 15 isn't in the same league as the PI on 11



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 1:49:41 AM)

Agreed Ricky.

Had each team had 1 challenge for no calls, or judgement calls, they likely would have overturned the hit in bounds on Mahomes. But had KC gotten off a similar pass (and interference) to what they got later in the drive, then KC would have gotten a 1st down in the red zone.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 1:53:17 AM)

Now if the Vikings had that 1 challenge for no calls or judgement calls when they played the Chiefs, they could have challenged on the Vikings last offensive play, where there was arguably a foul on the hit on the QB, pass Interference, and the defender could have been flagged for taking off his helmet.

Any one of those give the Vikings a 1st down in the red zone, with plenty of time left on the clock.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 8:58:54 AM)

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 9:11:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 9:32:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.


Real close either way. But every player and coach in the league knows the NFL goes out of its way to protect QBs. It's the most important position in team sports. So go ahead and deliver the big hit on the sideline... at your peril.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 10:03:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.

No reason at all unless you just want to inflict some hurt on the guy. He was a half a step from his foot touching out of bounds. The more you slow it down the more it looks like, He wasn't even out of bounds!



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 10:39:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.

No reason at all unless you just want to inflict some hurt on the guy. He was a half a step from his foot touching out of bounds. The more you slow it down the more it looks like, He wasn't even out of bounds!

I think stopping him from getting a first down is plenty of reason. Might as well play flag football.



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 10:41:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.


Real close either way. But every player and coach in the league knows the NFL goes out of its way to protect QBs. It's the most important position in team sports. So go ahead and deliver the big hit on the sideline... at your peril.

And the qb can also tip toe the sidelines trying to squeeze as much yardage out of it at his own peril.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 11:04:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.


Real close either way. But every player and coach in the league knows the NFL goes out of its way to protect QBs. It's the most important position in team sports. So go ahead and deliver the big hit on the sideline... at your peril.

And the qb can also tip toe the sidelines trying to squeeze as much yardage out of it at his own peril.


By peril I meant at the risk of getting a 15 yard penalty.

And in this case the QB was not tip toeing the sidelines. But I see your point because on that play the first down marker was key. Could the defender get there is time? And with the angle of the run, the defender was going to have to deliver a hit (as opposed to just a push or whatever).

So I agree with you, but also not surprised it was flagged.



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 11:07:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Just as many people would be angry as not if the Unsportsman like on Mahomes is called or nor called.

I liked the call bc there was no reason to hit him ... and of course I had a few bucks on the Chiefs

Doesn't look to me like GB sucks any more. Tough thing to say

No reason to hit him? He was in bounds and going for a first down. I guess there's no reason to hit anyone.


Real close either way. But every player and coach in the league knows the NFL goes out of its way to protect QBs. It's the most important position in team sports. So go ahead and deliver the big hit on the sideline... at your peril.

And the qb can also tip toe the sidelines trying to squeeze as much yardage out of it at his own peril.


By peril I meant at the risk of getting a 15 yard penalty.

And in this case the QB was not tip toeing the sidelines. But I see your point because on that play the first down marker was key. Could the defender get there is time? And with the angle of the run, the defender was going to have to deliver a hit (as opposed to just a push or whatever).

So I agree with you, but also not surprised it was flagged.

Agreed. You can't help it if the refs call silly stuff. But also let's not pretend the Chiefs got all the calls. That last play looked like a bad push in the back even by hail Mary standards.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/4/2023 11:11:47 AM)

Then there are the PI rules whereby as long as the defender just turns his head back towards the QB he can pretty much do whatever he wants to the receiver. Another judgement type rule they've created.



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