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JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 1:28:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: beo KOC outcoached today. Flores outcoached today. Mullins... not good. womp wahhhhhhhhhhhhh Well it was just a matter of time before we played someone that figured out how to attack our defense … maybe it was just we couldn’t match up with their WRs … or our CBs didn’t hold up, however you want to say it. I actually didn’t mind the playcalling for a lot of the first half. Maybe Chandler having some room to run made it seem better than it was. The calamitous never seen before sack-grounding-int by the sacker put a smell on the first half that lingered well after. Put me down for wanting to see Hall next. It should be a no brainer. Big red flag on Flores in the Denver game. Denver did nothing but throw the ball to their 3rd best running back, over and over, and marched down the field on their game winning drive. Perine had like 5 catches for 50 yards and we did nothing to stop that. Saturday, after the immaculate interception, Mullens learned nothing. He threw even more ill-advised passes. Fortunately, Addison bailed him out. Mullens has the potential to throw 8 interceptions in a game. Probably 2 pick sixes, with that weak, slow floater ball he throws to the outside. I would imagine the Lions DB's are already licking their chops to jump those outside routes. What does it say about our ability to evaluate our own talent when Chandler is the first Viking RB to rush for 100 yards in over a year? It takes an injury for this staff to make a change. Mullens won't be in the NFL in three years, unless of course if we keep him, which wouldn't surprise me. Play Hall. Coach better. Maybe Hall shows signs that his celing is that of a mediocre back up QB. That would be an improvement from where we are now.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 1:40:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: beo KOC outcoached today. Flores outcoached today. Mullins... not good. womp wahhhhhhhhhhhhh Well it was just a matter of time before we played someone that figured out how to attack our defense … maybe it was just we couldn’t match up with their WRs … or our CBs didn’t hold up, however you want to say it. I actually didn’t mind the playcalling for a lot of the first half. Maybe Chandler having some room to run made it seem better than it was. The calamitous never seen before sack-grounding-int by the sacker put a smell on the first half that lingered well after. Put me down for wanting to see Hall next. It should be a no brainer. Big red flag on Flores in the Denver game. Denver did nothing but throw the ball to their 3rd best running back, over and over, and marched down the field on their game winning drive. Perine had like 5 catches for 50 yards and we did nothing to stop that. Saturday, after the immaculate interception, Mullens learned nothing. He threw even more ill-advised passes. Fortunately, Addison bailed him out. Mullens has the potential to throw 8 interceptions in a game. Probably 2 pick sixes, with that weak, slow floater ball he throws to the outside. I would imagine the Lions DB's are already licking their chops to jump those outside routes. What does it say about our ability to evaluate our own talent when Chandler is the first Viking RB to rush for 100 yards in over a year? It takes an injury for this staff to make a change. Mullens won't be in the NFL in three years, unless of course if we keep him, which wouldn't surprise me. Play Hall. Coach better. Maybe Hall shows signs that his celing is that of a mediocre back up QB. That would be an improvement from where we are now. o'connell continues to call that pass even though it looks so dangerous - he must throw it to the wide side because it always seems to take too long to get there...cousins, dobbs, and mullen - it looked very dangerous no matter who threw it...i assumed that o'connell would give up on that pass because you have to think the defense is just waiting for it....

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 3:53:16 AM)
What does it say about our ability to evaluate our own talent when Chandler is the first Viking RB to rush for 100 yards in over a year? It takes an injury for this staff to make a change. ******* Infuriating. On 1st down Chandler had like one -1 yard run and one for no gain but he ripped off some 8 and 9 yard ones, a 24 yard one and a 30 yard one. Available all year but we went with no vision Mattison over and over up to the line and stuffed. There’s no excuse for that.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 3:57:16 AM)
Mullens is such a turd. Like in the movie Twins if Cousins and Dobbs had twins the Danny Devito character that got all the useless crap would be Mullens.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 4:13:25 AM)
I know Kevin would never go with Hall over Mullens when we’re sitting in a playoff spot but for real, wtf are you seeing to give him the automatic nod? Vision? Nope. Accuracy? Nope. Pocket awareness and elusiveness? Nope. Solid decision making? Hell no. We got such a small sample size but he didn’t look like a turd. And we ain’t doing shit in the playoffs if we did make it anyway. And with Mullens we’re likely to lose all 3 and not get in anyway.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 4:19:21 AM)
I know Dobbs has his warts but we had a great story brewing until Kevin forced Dobbs to try and be like Cousins or Mullens. I think we could have sandlotted our way to the Division title if Kevin had played to his strengths. Even if there was no future there it would be a million times better than going out in a whimper like we’re facing. **** Kevin.

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 6:05:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: beo KOC outcoached today. Flores outcoached today. Mullins... not good. womp wahhhhhhhhhhhhh Well it was just a matter of time before we played someone that figured out how to attack our defense … maybe it was just we couldn’t match up with their WRs … or our CBs didn’t hold up, however you want to say it. I actually didn’t mind the playcalling for a lot of the first half. Maybe Chandler having some room to run made it seem better than it was. The calamitous never seen before sack-grounding-int by the sacker put a smell on the first half that lingered well after. Put me down for wanting to see Hall next. It should be a no brainer. Big red flag on Flores in the Denver game. Denver did nothing but throw the ball to their 3rd best running back, over and over, and marched down the field on their game winning drive. Perine had like 5 catches for 50 yards and we did nothing to stop that. Saturday, after the immaculate interception, Mullens learned nothing. He threw even more ill-advised passes. Fortunately, Addison bailed him out. Mullens has the potential to throw 8 interceptions in a game. Probably 2 pick sixes, with that weak, slow floater ball he throws to the outside. I would imagine the Lions DB's are already licking their chops to jump those outside routes. What does it say about our ability to evaluate our own talent when Chandler is the first Viking RB to rush for 100 yards in over a year? It takes an injury for this staff to make a change. Mullens won't be in the NFL in three years, unless of course if we keep him, which wouldn't surprise me. Play Hall. Coach better. Maybe Hall shows signs that his celing is that of a mediocre back up QB. That would be an improvement from where we are now. The smart thing to do would be to play Hall and see if the guy can even be a capable backup. Give him the last 3 games. Mullens isn't going on a 3 game winning streak so who cares. I'm sure what we actually do is flounder around with Mullens throwing some of the craziest passes you'll ever see. I guess he keeps it interesting.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 7:10:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: beo KOC outcoached today. Flores outcoached today. Mullins... not good. womp wahhhhhhhhhhhhh Well it was just a matter of time before we played someone that figured out how to attack our defense … maybe it was just we couldn’t match up with their WRs … or our CBs didn’t hold up, however you want to say it. I actually didn’t mind the playcalling for a lot of the first half. Maybe Chandler having some room to run made it seem better than it was. The calamitous never seen before sack-grounding-int by the sacker put a smell on the first half that lingered well after. Put me down for wanting to see Hall next. It should be a no brainer. Big red flag on Flores in the Denver game. Denver did nothing but throw the ball to their 3rd best running back, over and over, and marched down the field on their game winning drive. Perine had like 5 catches for 50 yards and we did nothing to stop that. Saturday, after the immaculate interception, Mullens learned nothing. He threw even more ill-advised passes. Fortunately, Addison bailed him out. Mullens has the potential to throw 8 interceptions in a game. Probably 2 pick sixes, with that weak, slow floater ball he throws to the outside. I would imagine the Lions DB's are already licking their chops to jump those outside routes. What does it say about our ability to evaluate our own talent when Chandler is the first Viking RB to rush for 100 yards in over a year? It takes an injury for this staff to make a change. Mullens won't be in the NFL in three years, unless of course if we keep him, which wouldn't surprise me. Play Hall. Coach better. Maybe Hall shows signs that his celing is that of a mediocre back up QB. That would be an improvement from where we are now. ‘Play Hall. Coach better.’ That’s as clear as it can be said. Unfortunately, it would be like describing 3 dimensional shapes to a bunch of flat earthers.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 7:52:02 AM)
. . imo: we should start dobbs until we're out of playoff contention - then give the ball to hall to see what he's got.... chandler has never looked less than 'very good' when he's handled the ball...o'connell's knock on him was "he has to show more at practice"....

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 9:57:10 AM)
In case anyone gives a shit, the running tally of points per game and record with Kirk vs. what I will now call Ye' Ole' Pile O' Crap (YOPOC) backups is as follows: Kirk as starter - 20.13 points per game, 4-4 YOPOC as starter - 19.17 points per game, 3-3 I have full confidence that Detroit will jump to an early lead this weekend and that will allow us plenty of opportunity for garbage yards and points and the YOPOC will get us over that magical 20 points per game. Unfortunately we'll drop to 3-4 but then we'll clobber the Packers for 4-4. With luck the Lions won't play any starters in the finale and we can sneak into the playoffs at 9-8 and go one-and-done. It will be like we never lost our starter after all!

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:12:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 Big red flag on Flores in the Denver game. Denver did nothing but throw the ball to their 3rd best running back, over and over, and marched down the field on their game winning drive. Perine had like 5 catches for 50 yards and we did nothing to stop that. Felt like Payton had that in his backpocket in case he needed a single score. And we had no counter. And we've seen it a few more times since then. Not the exact same plays, but an ability to drive on us when needed at the end of games. That said, I think the defense has far overachieved based on their talent level.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:15:25 AM)
It's too bad that league-wide mediocrity and playoff spots for 44% of the teams keep damn near everyone 'in the hunt' (sounds manly). Of course, the league loves it. Couple that with coaches who basically hurt player development in their quest for short term gain at the expense of longer term strategy. KOC is no different. He's going to go with the so-called veteran who knows his magic system as opposed to seeing if Hall deserves a roster spot. Ah WTH, it's just backup QBs... who needs 'em! Flores has done wonders with essentially a gimmicky scheme (highest blitz rate & highest 3 man rush). However DCs have sniffed out not only the scheme but also the fundamental flaws from a lack of talent. Scheme all you want, but eventually the game will ride on CBs making plays rather than being crash test dummies. KOC calling a deep pass on 1st down late in the game is, sadly, a sign of progress. Mullens is fun to watch. Just pretend it's 1950s football being played on the road with wooden bleachers in rainy weather on a muddy field.

drviking -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:20:06 AM)
There is a "minimum talent necessary" for QBs to be effective Kirk has over the minimum, but his brain (and contract) lowers his effectiveness (IMO) Mullens, not above minimum talent, and brain is not helping Dobbs, not above minimum talent level (due to accuracy, IMO), and football brain is not helping Hall, no idea on talent level, nor on brain hence, might as well play someone that MIGHT hit the minimum talent level, and MIGHT have a football brain, instead of players the we KNOW do not JMO

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:28:39 AM)
And bemoaning we coulda, woulda, shoulda been a contender if not for those pesky turnovers is nothing but a bad-news-bears excuse. Turnovers happen because runners fail to hold onto the ball. Turnovers happen because QBs throw interceptions due to bad throws, receivers not catching the ball or playing paddy-cake with it, and because blockers let defensive players bat the ball in the air. All of that comes down to bad execution and poor coaching. The league has known for eons how vital it is to not turn the ball over. Turning the ball over shows you didn't get the memo that's been circulating for 75 years, or you disregarded it.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:30:55 AM)
Two Hot Takes on Monday!: O'Connell is afraid of losing his job to Flores. He's seen what Flores does with minimal talent. He sees Flores having a better overall grasp of the game (ex. - Flores telling him to call time out). Meanwhile O'Connell puts up roughly 20 points per game with an offense that has a great O-line and substantial weapons. I honestly believe O'Connell is playing and staying with Mullens because he's afraid. Nevermind the fact that Mullens made a collection of the worst throws I've seen outside of a high school game - he had 300 yards!!! Did you all hear he had 300 yards? OMG!!!! Kirk Cousins just isn't that into football. I saw a clip of him playing Legos with his kids over the weekend. Nice! I effing LOVE playing Legos with my kids. It's a great family activity. Kirk looked like he was really enjoying it. Then I thought more about the series Quarterback. Kirk never looks like he's having fun playing football. He DOES however, look like he's having fun doing bonfires and reminiscing about the "extreme tenors" in high school choir. I freaking LOVED high school choir! Long story short - I think he's just doing football because he has the talent. I think he'd leave football in a heartbeat if he was presented with a different way to make a living. Does this make him bad person? No. Does it make him the guy you want for your franchise QB? Also no. Also worth mentioning - dude is a great singer!

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:33:12 AM)
Backup QB, in this case the 4th stringer, is always the most popular player on the team. But Hall went 5-6 for 78 yards in his short debut. Play the man.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:50:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Two Hot Takes on Monday!: O'Connell is afraid of losing his job to Flores. He's seen what Flores does with minimal talent. He sees Flores having a better overall grasp of the game (ex. - Flores telling him to call time out). Meanwhile O'Connell puts up roughly 20 points per game with an offense that has a great O-line and substantial weapons. I honestly believe O'Connell is playing and staying with Mullens because he's afraid. Nevermind the fact that Mullens made a collection of the worst throws I've seen outside of a high school game - he had 300 yards!!! Did you all hear he had 300 yards? OMG!!!! Kirk Cousins just isn't that into football. I saw a clip of him playing Legos with his kids over the weekend. Nice! I effing LOVE playing Legos with my kids. It's a great family activity. Kirk looked like he was really enjoying it. Then I thought more about the series Quarterback. Kirk never looks like he's having fun playing football. He DOES however, look like he's having fun doing bonfires and reminiscing about the "extreme tenors" in high school choir. I freaking LOVED high school choir! Long story short - I think he's just doing football because he has the talent. I think he'd leave football in a heartbeat if he was presented with a different way to make a living. Does this make him bad person? No. Does it make him the guy you want for your franchise QB? Also no. Also worth mentioning - dude is a great singer! Cousins spent a lot of time in the Netflix series moaning about being hit. That may have been what was scripted, but he could have said no I'm not going there. Defenders probably couldn't wait to hit him. I don't know about Legos or choir clips but in general stay the hell away from the camera.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 11:55:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Two Hot Takes on Monday!: O'Connell is afraid of losing his job to Flores. He's seen what Flores does with minimal talent. He sees Flores having a better overall grasp of the game (ex. - Flores telling him to call time out). Meanwhile O'Connell puts up roughly 20 points per game with an offense that has a great O-line and substantial weapons. I honestly believe O'Connell is playing and staying with Mullens because he's afraid. Nevermind the fact that Mullens made a collection of the worst throws I've seen outside of a high school game - he had 300 yards!!! Did you all hear he had 300 yards? OMG!!!! Kirk Cousins just isn't that into football. I saw a clip of him playing Legos with his kids over the weekend. Nice! I effing LOVE playing Legos with my kids. It's a great family activity. Kirk looked like he was really enjoying it. Then I thought more about the series Quarterback. Kirk never looks like he's having fun playing football. He DOES however, look like he's having fun doing bonfires and reminiscing about the "extreme tenors" in high school choir. I freaking LOVED high school choir! Long story short - I think he's just doing football because he has the talent. I think he'd leave football in a heartbeat if he was presented with a different way to make a living. Does this make him bad person? No. Does it make him the guy you want for your franchise QB? Also no. Also worth mentioning - dude is a great singer! Cousins spent a lot of time in the Netflix series moaning about being hit. That may have been what was scripted, but he could have said no I'm not going there. Defenders probably couldn't wait to hit him. I don't know about Legos or choir clips but in general stay the hell away from the camera. His team is out there fighting for their playoff life and he doesn't have a care in the world. In a strange way I actually respect that - just don't want that to be our coveted and cherished QB.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 12:26:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 Big red flag on Flores in the Denver game. Denver did nothing but throw the ball to their 3rd best running back, over and over, and marched down the field on their game winning drive. Perine had like 5 catches for 50 yards and we did nothing to stop that. Felt like Payton had that in his backpocket in case he needed a single score. And we had no counter. And we've seen it a few more times since then. Not the exact same plays, but an ability to drive on us when needed at the end of games. That said, I think the defense has far overachieved based on their talent level. The Defense has been pretty good, but it is not perfect. The Offense has been a real problem this year. especially since Cousins injury, but it was an issue before then too. When we NEED a drive. Some clock killing first downs, etc. we almost without fail go three and out. Saturday was a perfect example. this team was killing the Bengals first half and into the third quarter. But mistakes mostly by Mullens redzone INTs. cost us this game in the longrun. Flores didn't adapt to what the Bengals didn't to adapt and let JAKE ****ING BROWNING run three straight scoring drives in regulation to tie the game. Mullens looked like a Backup. He played well moving the ball then made boneheaded plays to cough it up. That took points off the board. and probably cost us the game. Even on his last touchdown he threw across his body, which also was nearly picked. Mulles is NOT the answer the rest of the way. I'm not sure there is one. Clearly Dobbs and Mullens are NOT the answer. So I am on the PLAY HALL bandwagon just to see what the kid's got. I could be more disasterous, but if he's ever going to be any good this experience the last three games would be invaluable for both his developement and for evaluating whether he's an NFL QB after all.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 12:39:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 Big red flag on Flores in the Denver game. Denver did nothing but throw the ball to their 3rd best running back, over and over, and marched down the field on their game winning drive. Perine had like 5 catches for 50 yards and we did nothing to stop that. Felt like Payton had that in his backpocket in case he needed a single score. And we had no counter. And we've seen it a few more times since then. Not the exact same plays, but an ability to drive on us when needed at the end of games. That said, I think the defense has far overachieved based on their talent level. Thought the same. Cincy certainly put on a 4th quarter show. Seems counterintuitive but maybe that's a game within the game kind of thing.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 12:44:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Two Hot Takes on Monday!: O'Connell is afraid of losing his job to Flores. He's seen what Flores does with minimal talent. He sees Flores having a better overall grasp of the game (ex. - Flores telling him to call time out). Meanwhile O'Connell puts up roughly 20 points per game with an offense that has a great O-line and substantial weapons. I honestly believe O'Connell is playing and staying with Mullens because he's afraid. Nevermind the fact that Mullens made a collection of the worst throws I've seen outside of a high school game - he had 300 yards!!! Did you all hear he had 300 yards? OMG!!!! Kirk Cousins just isn't that into football. I saw a clip of him playing Legos with his kids over the weekend. Nice! I effing LOVE playing Legos with my kids. It's a great family activity. Kirk looked like he was really enjoying it. Then I thought more about the series Quarterback. Kirk never looks like he's having fun playing football. He DOES however, look like he's having fun doing bonfires and reminiscing about the "extreme tenors" in high school choir. I freaking LOVED high school choir! Long story short - I think he's just doing football because he has the talent. I think he'd leave football in a heartbeat if he was presented with a different way to make a living. Does this make him bad person? No. Does it make him the guy you want for your franchise QB? Also no. Also worth mentioning - dude is a great singer! Cousins spent a lot of time in the Netflix series moaning about being hit. That may have been what was scripted, but he could have said no I'm not going there. Defenders probably couldn't wait to hit him. I don't know about Legos or choir clips but in general stay the hell away from the camera. His team is out there fighting for their playoff life and he doesn't have a care in the world. In a strange way I actually respect that - just don't want that to be our coveted and cherished QB. Hope like heck the Cousins era is over but focusing on just the two things you bring up I don't see a problem with him enjoying life. It's not like he can do much outside of being involved in meetings or whatever. And he seems to be wound tightly enough as it is. Or perhaps it's a show. His regimen for that day: 12:45-1:00. Watch videos of dads having fun playing Legos with their kids. 1:00-1:15. Emulate a dad having fun playing Legos with the kids. 1:15-1:30. Wind down after the craziness. 1:30-1:45. Call agent to see if there are any 'first ever' things for next contract.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 12:50:24 PM)
Mullens is a riot to watch. Part of the time he looks like he doesn't give a damn, almost cocky. Other times he is an utter clown show, basically a human train wreck at QB. But he keeps winging the ball. Short memory or no self-awareness, I don't know. He's like Josh Freeman w/o the athleticism.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 12:58:49 PM)
“He's like Josh Freeman w/o the athleticism.” Just what I want in a starting QB.. And KFC is an “on the spectrum”, Mullins, with zero awareness and zero mobility.. Yep, standard 20 years of Vikings QB choices and Coaching choices.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 2:42:15 PM)
. . phil mackey commented on this like it was a fact.... Jeremy Fowler@JFowlerESPN Quarterback Nick Mullens is expected to make another start for the #Vikings on Sunday vs. the #Lions, per sources. Mullens passed for 303 yards last week vs. Cincinnati

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/18/2023 2:51:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . . phil mackey commented on this like it was a fact.... Jeremy Fowler@JFowlerESPN Quarterback Nick Mullens is expected to make another start for the #Vikings on Sunday vs. the #Lions, per sources. Mullens passed for 303 yards last week vs. Cincinnati I'll be shocked if Mullens doesn't start. Its likely the worst choice among the 3 options, but it feels like the mnost KOC choice.

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