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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 8:36:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: David F. A quick chime-in to point out that neither the Wilfs nor any other owner “spends their own money” on a damn thing. From the salary for the GM, the starting qb, down to the hourly pay for the person filling up popcorn boxes not one nickel comes from the owner. From the big drum and huge horn down to the newest shipment of towels and toilet paper the owners aren’t paying for any of it. The fans pay for all of it. Season tickets, concessions, TV, corporate sponsors (who get the money from their customers), merch, and favorable tax treatment (aka public money), and the exponential growth of the value of their franchise (aka capital gains) fuel this enterprise. You could make the argument that some owners are slightly better than others in that they don’t pocket the entire 2000 truckloads of money each year. Sure, some “generously” reinvest four or five of the 2000 truckloads back into a nice practice facility in Eagan. Truly the salt of the earth, those types. What set of fans? Season tickets. Considering many Vikings fans sell their tickets when GB shows up in order to (by some accounts) recoup a significant cost of their season tickets, Green Bay Packers fans pay for a percentage of seats Concessions. Yes, that's mostly Vikings fans eating and drinking. TV. League-wide. Corporate sponsors (who get the money from their customers). Vikings fans for local stuff, but it's difficult to say where the fans are and/or whether they are Vikings fans. Ex. U.S. Bank is nationwide. Merch. Vikings fans, or allegiance to a particular player which may be quite a thing. Favorable tax treatment (aka public money). The public. The exponential growth of the value of their franchise (aka capital gains). League-wide. So what do Vikings fans in particular fund? Some % of ticket sales, hot dogs, beer, ma & pa sponsors, jerseys. If I sell my packer tickets the Vikings still get my money. They also have about $15,000 of my money from SBLs. And then I flipped the script and bought packer tickets this year and traveled there for our game. Did I fund the packer organization? The fans, directly and indirectly, pay for everything. Always have. A simple pass through. You pay Wilf, the packer fans pay you. Ergo, packer fans pay the Wilfs. You probably got tickets @ GB cheap lol. Fans do not pay for everything, even indirectly. You yourself listed stadiums and favorable tax treatment (public money). And corporate sponsors. There are untold thousands (millions) of people who pay into a product or service (like US Bank) who are not NFL fans. Oh I get where we’re not on the same page. I was incorrect when I said the fans pay it all. I should have said the owners don’t pay anything but fans and others pay it all. Yes they've got their gold-injected oversized golden goose. Get into their private club and watch the money roll in. Pete Rozelle created a monster.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 8:49:27 AM)
The Cowboys cap situation makes the Vikings look frugal: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys They have some guy named Micah Parsons getting close to the end of his rookie contract. Same with some WR named Lamb.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 8:53:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Penix and a capable backup would at least hold promise to change that equation.

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 9:08:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Might finish in the bottom 5, netting us a real high pick a d getting KAM fired. 🤔

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 9:46:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen The Cowboys cap situation makes the Vikings look frugal: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys They have some guy named Micah Parsons getting close to the end of his rookie contract. Same with some WR named Lamb. So, to be clear - if you don't mind: Dak has a cap number of $59,455,00. If they cut him pre 6/1 the cap hit for Dal would be $2,460,000 higher than if he played? Cut Dak post 6/1 the cap hit (dead) would be $25,455,000? Does that sound right?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 9:50:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen The Cowboys cap situation makes the Vikings look frugal: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/dallas-cowboys They have some guy named Micah Parsons getting close to the end of his rookie contract. Same with some WR named Lamb. So, to be clear - if you don't mind: Dak has a cap number of $59,455,00. If they cut him pre 6/1 the cap hit for Dal would be $2,460,000 higher than if he played? Cut Dak post 6/1 the cap hit (dead) would be $25,455,000? Does that sound right? Looks like it. There is also the rest of a post June 1 cap hit, $34 million, to apply the following year.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 9:50:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: timz Packers pounding the Cowpukes Any time the Packers play the Cowboys I think what a perfect moment and place for an asteroid strike. No, that wish is saved for the RNC.. How about the Cowboys playing the Packers with the RNC iand the Nebraska Judiciary in attendance? I’m afraid that I’d have to spend a small fortune on anonymous gift tickets to include the people on my list to experience that cataclysmic moment.. It not just the judiciary, there’s a few others that I’d have to include…[8\|]

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 9:56:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Penix and a capable backup would at least hold promise to change that equation. New qb or not, it just feels like we are going to get much worse before we get much better. With year three starting to feel like a real bottoming out. We have Addison to show for two drafts. And Pace who doesnt count as good drafting. Meanwhile, the Packers sneeze and a decent wr prospect pops out. We are up against it now. Just the fact that Kwesi is giving Cousins lip service at this point, regardless of what happens, shows that his head is still stuck in trying to not flop - not trying to get much better.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:05:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Penix and a capable backup would at least hold promise to change that equation. New qb or not, it just feels like we are going to get much worse before we get much better. With year three starting to feel like a real bottoming out. We have Addison to show for two drafts. And Pace who doesnt count as good drafting. Meanwhile, the Packers sneeze and a decent wr prospect pops out. We are up against it now. Just the fact that Kwesi is giving Cousins lip service at this point, regardless of what happens, shows that his head is still stuck in trying to not flop - not trying to get much better. We definitely have the murkiest path to relevancy of the 4 Division teams. At this point, going with Cousins feels like a bandaid to try to score a WC spot next year - while also pushing our timeline back another year or two. Its bite the bullet time.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:08:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Penix and a capable backup would at least hold promise to change that equation. New qb or not, it just feels like we are going to get much worse before we get much better. With year three starting to feel like a real bottoming out. We have Addison to show for two drafts. And Pace who doesnt count as good drafting. Meanwhile, the Packers sneeze and a decent wr prospect pops out. We are up against it now. Just the fact that Kwesi is giving Cousins lip service at this point, regardless of what happens, shows that his head is still stuck in trying to not flop - not trying to get much better. It sure feels like that. Sorry but if after 2 years of a competitive rebuild you’re trending towards bottoming out you have failed. Now we get a year, maybe 2 of decisions that likely lead to a prolonged dig out if and when Kwesi is dropped. It’s a really shitty place to be.

Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:10:37 AM)
My $0.02: Don't enjoy seeing GB win, but I did like seeing DAL get pounded!! DAL seemed way to lax on defense. Love throwing while falling back to guys wide open! Love played well, but I think it was much more that DAL shit the bed. Dak has a $60M cap number?! Ouch. The Lions should have lost that game. Their pass defense is trash. Officiating was terrible and a big missed PI on LAR last 3rd down. Then McVay made some bad choices.... I don't buy the Penix hype. I don't want KFC for another year. Stroud has played outstanding.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:14:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Penix and a capable backup would at least hold promise to change that equation. New qb or not, it just feels like we are going to get much worse before we get much better. With year three starting to feel like a real bottoming out. We have Addison to show for two drafts. And Pace who doesnt count as good drafting. Meanwhile, the Packers sneeze and a decent wr prospect pops out. We are up against it now. Just the fact that Kwesi is giving Cousins lip service at this point, regardless of what happens, shows that his head is still stuck in trying to not flop - not trying to get much better. Yes, assuming a QB like Penix pans out the D is still problematic. Flores' smoke & mirrors have been exposed. After taking a QB, Kwesi has to nail the 2nd round and two 4th round picks then nail the picks the following year. And there isn't much cap to sign players this offseason. Bombing on the #12 pick wasted a lot of draft capital. Blackmon is still in the mix and he had 8 passes defensed, which by Minnesota standards is HoF material. Hoping Andre Carter steps up after stashing him for a year. Pace. Bynum/Metellus. But yeah, the cupboard is relatively bare and the cavalry is not coming to the rescue.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:34:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Kirk Cousins is 35-years old and recovering from an Achilles. Anything short of a 70% cut in pay would be management malpractice.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:53:01 AM)
Even if green lit I don’t trust Kwesi to rebuild the roster. I don’t believe Kwesi can take what we have and move us up to the next level. I don’t believe he’ll be successful maintaining the status quo to try and stay playoff competitive. Beyond a 50-50 chance we get in and are one and done. Difficult time to be a fan.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:55:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lars My $0.02: Don't enjoy seeing GB win, but I did like seeing DAL get pounded!! DAL seemed way to lax on defense. Love throwing while falling back to guys wide open! Love played well, but I think it was much more that DAL shit the bed. Dak has a $60M cap number?! Ouch. The Lions should have lost that game. Their pass defense is trash. Officiating was terrible and a big missed PI on LAR last 3rd down. Then McVay made some bad choices.... I don't buy the Penix hype. I don't want KFC for another year. Stroud has played outstanding. I thought the no call on Stafford getting pounded after he got rid of the ball by two people was bad. Where's the consistency?

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 10:56:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Even if green lit I don’t trust Kwesi to rebuild the roster. I don’t believe Kwesi can take what we have and move us up to the next level. I don’t believe he’ll be successful maintaining the status quo to try and stay playoff competitive. Beyond a 50-50 chance we get in and are one and done. Difficult time to be a fan. Here's the reality. The Vikings don't really have a culture of winning. You can hear it in the sentiment of the fans. They expect management to fail. They expect quarterbacks to fail. They predict heartbreak. Green Bay, for all of their warts, has a winning culture and the fans always believe they have a chance. Winning begets winning. If you walk through the halls of the Green Bay front offices you see trophies, awards and winning history. It is expected.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:03:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Lars My $0.02: Don't enjoy seeing GB win, but I did like seeing DAL get pounded!! DAL seemed way to lax on defense. Love throwing while falling back to guys wide open! Love played well, but I think it was much more that DAL shit the bed. Dak has a $60M cap number?! Ouch. The Lions should have lost that game. Their pass defense is trash. Officiating was terrible and a big missed PI on LAR last 3rd down. Then McVay made some bad choices.... I don't buy the Penix hype. I don't want KFC for another year. Stroud has played outstanding. I thought the no call on Stafford getting pounded after he got rid of the ball by two people was bad. Where's the consistency? You could make a claim that there was three late hits on that one play. Just awful. The two jersey grabs on receivers? And the NFL wonders why some fans think the game is rigged. After the first no-call for PI to open the second half, I texted my buddy and said the Rams are about to get hosed. Could see it coming a mile away.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:06:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Murph quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H The story of the playoffs so far on opening weekend..............Jordan Love and CJ Stroud. Young quarterbacks with talent. At some point you'd think the Vikings brass would figure it out. If we bring back Cousins and not draft a QB high in the 1st; we'll have the worst QB room in the division and will finish last in the north. Penix and a capable backup would at least hold promise to change that equation. New qb or not, it just feels like we are going to get much worse before we get much better. With year three starting to feel like a real bottoming out. We have Addison to show for two drafts. And Pace who doesnt count as good drafting. Meanwhile, the Packers sneeze and a decent wr prospect pops out. We are up against it now. Just the fact that Kwesi is giving Cousins lip service at this point, regardless of what happens, shows that his head is still stuck in trying to not flop - not trying to get much better. It sure feels like that. Sorry but if after 2 years of a competitive rebuild you’re trending towards bottoming out you have failed. Now we get a year, maybe 2 of decisions that likely lead to a prolonged dig out if and when Kwesi is dropped. It’s a really shitty place to be. I assume they don't take into account QB1 being lost for the season as part of the competitive rebuild. At the very least it would have been MN playing Dallas, but probably a lower seed. And as I said, anyone can beat anyone in the NFC this year - see GB (7 seed)/Dallas (2 seed) - why I feed the negativity is beyond me ... can't help it, I guess

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:08:31 AM)
I'll tell you this right now. If San Francisco gets Detroit in the NFC title game they are going to beat them by 30.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:15:31 AM)
There probably wasn't consistency because the refs and the league may have preferred the Lions get their 1st playoff win in a gazillion years.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:27:26 AM)
Here’s what would keep me interested. Trade JJ. Use that ammo to move up for your STARTING franchise QB. Give Flores the keys to turn the Defense around. Top draft picks and top FA acquisitions on Defense. Gut it out next year and take our lumps

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:30:49 AM)
New qb or not, it just feels like we are going to get much worse before we get much better. With year three starting to feel like a real bottoming out. I remember Chicago won the division one year with a really young team, it may have been the year Chicago went to the Super Bowl and lost. There was talk from Bear fans of a dynasty, they had all kinds of money and a very young team. Some thought the Bears would win the division for the next 4 years. Chicago did not win the division the next year, it may have been the Vikings. My next post will explain my optimism.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:41:05 AM)
I think the Vikings can be successful with or without Kirk. IF the Vikings keep Kirk, it will be another year for Kirk in the same system, and he was playing his best ball before he got hurt. Assuming BFlo doesn't get a head coaching job, I think his defense will play as well or better if all the guys stay healthy. They can add another gem like Pace in the draft, or even undrafted. The defense could add a better DT, even with a cheap free agent. Teams may adjust to BFlo, but he may also make counters. Their slippage at the end of the year, probably had more to do with injuries. They can do better in free agency than Davenport.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:46:35 AM)
It sucks seeing how GB and Detroit have so many 1st and 2nd year guys playing so well. Right now Kwesi is looking like the distant 4th best GM in the Division. He better improve fast.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/15/2024 11:47:31 AM)
As much flack as Campbell gets, that decision to throw the ball to put the game away was an absolute dagger that I don't think KOC has in his sheath.

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