RE: General Vikes Talk

RE: General Vikes Talk (Full Version)

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk

Message

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 10:29:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser Came across this little nugget that makes you want to vomit knowing they want him back. Thank God we can't afford him. With the Minnesota Vikings from 2018-22, Kirk Cousins was 10-24 (.294) against winning teams as the starting quarterback. That's pretty incredible when you think about it. It's not like he was a rookie picked up by a bottom feeder. That would make sense. He took over a very talented team that was in the NFCCG. What's worse, he was paid the big bucks to lead the team in those games. He just didn't get the memo. He's around .250 for his career. But... going into his 13th year, just think what could be! I was living in the DC area when the "you like that" first happened. It was covered to death by the local media. I assumed he was a really competitive guy so I was excited when we signed him. What I've come to learn (IMO, at least) is that he's really not. He's a very smart guy who realizes he's very gifted at throwing a football and it will make him, and his family, generational wealth. The winning part is ancillary. He probably likes to win but won't at all costs like a Mahomes/Allen/Jackson kinda QB. It was time to move on the last time they resigned him. It's well past that now. I will be just fine should he sign elsewhere. If you don't know after 12 seasons that you need to spike the ball when you have no timeouts in the waning moments of the game in the two minute drill....Well, there is no saving you. the Mahomes, Allen, etc kind of QBs get better when the game is on the line. Their play elevates, they become more focused. Cousins doesn't. He needs a coach to tell him to spike the ball. He doesn't know when to call a timeout when they have them. Precious time runs off the clock and he just meanders up to the line etc. He's a stat gatherer. His personal numbers look good, but in the end, and the Mahomes of the world understand this, the only stat that matters is the Wins and losses. If you lost it doesn't matter if you threw for 400+ yards and three TDs. You lost. Cousins doesn't get this. He never will. Time to move on.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 10:31:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes but it gives me a big ol' chafing that our due diligence - at least up until this point - is probably researching prospects you can develop behind Cousins versus a critical and imminent decision for your franchise moving forward now. Its the difference between selling out to make something happen versus sitting at #11 and making the smartest choice of the options in front of you. I believe our due diligence so far includes includes meeting with most if not all of the projected top 6 QBs in the draft. I also know of meetings with most of the top defensive prospects. Do you want us to sell out to make something happen? I'm pretty sure we've explored that. Absolutely. We'd be fools not to. Let me rephrase that ... we ARE fools, we'd be bigger fools if we just sit and go along with what happens. Then we have to trade up to 1 with the Bears. It's the only way to assure getting the best possible pick. I'm thinking the cost is this years 11 and our next 3 first round picks. Maybe Jefferson and 11 will get it done is another way to sell out. The Bears keep Fields and possibly take a QB at 9 as well. I don't know what the options are. But the Bears would be absolute idiots to trade with us no matter what we offered. 'Sell out ...' is very subjective ... there simply might not be a trade into the top three ... If we don't at least offer a blockbuster deal, we are settling for a distant second tier player. Outside of the top picks and before round 4, are 2nd tier McCarthy Nix Penix any better than what's available any year? 2023 Levis Hooker 2022 Pickett Willis Ridder Corrall 2021 Fields Jones Trask Mond Mills Maybe a little, not sure. It's not a very glamourous list but I really believe the situation has as much to do with it as talent. If you shuffled those picks around, it wouldn't surprise me to see Fields or Levis or Pickett show more in a different situation. If that's all we can get our hands on ... ok then ... but at least tell me you went above and beyond, you scratched and clawed ... If we are going to draft a QB somewhere between the #10 pick and the end of the third round ... I would be picking one of those guys every year until one starts killing off the others and takes over like the penned up velociraptor in Jurassic Park. Not sure why we are waiting for year three to start sorting through this. Because the Wilfs only care about getting fanboys to dump money into seats and merch and concessions.. It certainly feels like a business venture, on their part. I wonder if they would own the team differently if we were the Giants ... be more hands on, frantic to win ... as true fans of the team ... I agree 100% on 100% of both Dan and Tom's comments. If that was true why fire Zimmer and Spielman? Fans getting restless. You make a change to reenergize them. Buys you more good will.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 10:38:34 AM)
"Time to move on." We HAVE moved on, the official dates and announcements just haven't happened yet! They are close though... it's less than a week from the opening of the legal tampering period.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 11:14:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser Came across this little nugget that makes you want to vomit knowing they want him back. Thank God we can't afford him. With the Minnesota Vikings from 2018-22, Kirk Cousins was 10-24 (.294) against winning teams as the starting quarterback. That's pretty incredible when you think about it. It's not like he was a rookie picked up by a bottom feeder. That would make sense. He took over a very talented team that was in the NFCCG. It was very disappointing when he first got here. He was going to put us over the top. If we would have had 2022 Cousins in 2018, we might have been on to something. But, it is what it is and it is time to move on.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 11:20:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer 1 of @richeisen 's 5 Rumors from the NFL Combine: Trey Lance might be the Minnesota Vikings next QB Would you be satisfied with Lance, #11 Dallas Turner and #42 Rattler?

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 11:29:55 AM)
KOC angling for some draft compensation. Hints other teams tampering with Cousins before legal period.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 11:33:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes but it gives me a big ol' chafing that our due diligence - at least up until this point - is probably researching prospects you can develop behind Cousins versus a critical and imminent decision for your franchise moving forward now. Its the difference between selling out to make something happen versus sitting at #11 and making the smartest choice of the options in front of you. I believe our due diligence so far includes includes meeting with most if not all of the projected top 6 QBs in the draft. I also know of meetings with most of the top defensive prospects. Do you want us to sell out to make something happen? I'm pretty sure we've explored that. Absolutely. We'd be fools not to. Let me rephrase that ... we ARE fools, we'd be bigger fools if we just sit and go along with what happens. Then we have to trade up to 1 with the Bears. It's the only way to assure getting the best possible pick. I'm thinking the cost is this years 11 and our next 3 first round picks. Maybe Jefferson and 11 will get it done is another way to sell out. The Bears keep Fields and possibly take a QB at 9 as well. I don't know what the options are. But the Bears would be absolute idiots to trade with us no matter what we offered. 'Sell out ...' is very subjective ... there simply might not be a trade into the top three ... If we don't at least offer a blockbuster deal, we are settling for a distant second tier player. Outside of the top picks and before round 4, are 2nd tier McCarthy Nix Penix any better than what's available any year? 2023 Levis Hooker 2022 Pickett Willis Ridder Corrall 2021 Fields Jones Trask Mond Mills Maybe a little, not sure. It's not a very glamourous list but I really believe the situation has as much to do with it as talent. If you shuffled those picks around, it wouldn't surprise me to see Fields or Levis or Pickett show more in a different situation. If that's all we can get our hands on ... ok then ... but at least tell me you went above and beyond, you scratched and clawed ... If we are going to draft a QB somewhere between the #10 pick and the end of the third round ... I would be picking one of those guys every year until one starts killing off the others and takes over like the penned up velociraptor in Jurassic Park. Not sure why we are waiting for year three to start sorting through this. Because the Wilfs only care about getting fanboys to dump money into seats and merch and concessions.. It certainly feels like a business venture, on their part. I wonder if they would own the team differently if we were the Giants ... be more hands on, frantic to win ... as true fans of the team ... I agree 100% on 100% of both Dan and Tom's comments. If that was true why fire Zimmer and Spielman? nm

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 11:44:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer 1 of @richeisen 's 5 Rumors from the NFL Combine: Trey Lance might be the Minnesota Vikings next QB Would you be satisfied with Lance, #11 Dallas Turner and #42 Rattler? I would prefer Fields over Lance but it gives you a young QB either way....Lance is younger then Nix and Penix. Fields is less than a year older.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 12:17:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer 1 of @richeisen 's 5 Rumors from the NFL Combine: Trey Lance might be the Minnesota Vikings next QB Would you be satisfied with Lance, #11 Dallas Turner and #42 Rattler? I would prefer Fields over Lance but it gives you a young QB either way....Lance is younger then Nix and Penix. Fields is less than a year older. Agree but I think it would be more prudent to start from scratch and have a 4-5 year rookie window. We have good pieces on O but need so much help on D. It would be different if, per se, we had a SF type roster. We need to be cheap on QB for a few years while get our D more filled out. Especially depth.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 12:52:41 PM)
“Trey Lance is a possible solve for the Vikings,” Eisen said. “Now the Cowboys picked up — kept him on the roster long enough to get a bonus, so they’re paying him money to keep him, and they, as you know, got him for a (fourth-round pick). I’m just wondering if the Vikings flip him a (third-round pick), a Friday night pick. Do they go ahead and do that?” Yeah Eisen, we'll get right on that... except we don't have a third-round pick.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:00:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer 1 of @richeisen 's 5 Rumors from the NFL Combine: Trey Lance might be the Minnesota Vikings next QB Would you be satisfied with Lance, #11 Dallas Turner and #42 Rattler? I would prefer Fields over Lance but it gives you a young QB either way....Lance is younger then Nix and Penix. Fields is less than a year older. Agree but I think it would be more prudent to start from scratch and have a 4-5 year rookie window. We have good pieces on O but need so much help on D. It would be different if, per se, we had a SF type roster. We need to be cheap on QB for a few years while get our D more filled out. Especially depth. Trey Lance is a non-starter. - He is a year away from a guaranteed $22.4 million 5th year option. - If that is not exercised, he's a one-year rental that even Kwesi isn't going to use draft picks on.

Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:09:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser Came across this little nugget that makes you want to vomit knowing they want him back. Thank God we can't afford him. With the Minnesota Vikings from 2018-22, Kirk Cousins was 10-24 (.294) against winning teams as the starting quarterback. That's pretty incredible when you think about it. It's not like he was a rookie picked up by a bottom feeder. That would make sense. He took over a very talented team that was in the NFCCG. What's worse, he was paid the big bucks to lead the team in those games. He just didn't get the memo. He's around .250 for his career. But... going into his 13th year, just think what could be! I was living in the DC area when the "you like that" first happened. It was covered to death by the local media. I assumed he was a really competitive guy so I was excited when we signed him. What I've come to learn (IMO, at least) is that he's really not. He's a very smart guy who realizes he's very gifted at throwing a football and it will make him, and his family, generational wealth. The winning part is ancillary. He probably likes to win but won't at all costs like a Mahomes/Allen/Jackson kinda QB. It was time to move on the last time they resigned him. It's well past that now. BINGO!!!!

Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:11:45 PM)
No thanks on Lance or Rattler. Let's go get our real QBOTF. My vote is McCarthy. I think Kwesi is gonna feel the need to overcompensate this draft and might try to swing for the fences. Here's hoping he succeeds, because he has been DOGSHIT so far...

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:15:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer 1 of @richeisen 's 5 Rumors from the NFL Combine: Trey Lance might be the Minnesota Vikings next QB Would you be satisfied with Lance, #11 Dallas Turner and #42 Rattler? I would prefer Fields over Lance but it gives you a young QB either way....Lance is younger then Nix and Penix. Fields is less than a year older. Agree but I think it would be more prudent to start from scratch and have a 4-5 year rookie window. We have good pieces on O but need so much help on D. It would be different if, per se, we had a SF type roster. We need to be cheap on QB for a few years while get our D more filled out. Especially depth. Trey Lance is a non-starter. - He is a year away from a guaranteed $22.4 million 5th year option. - If that is not exercised, he's a one-year rental that even Kwesi isn't going to use draft picks on. Yeap. I wouldn't touch Lance. My post wasn't very clear. What I meant was: 1. Go young draft pick 2. Give Fields a year or 2 to work with KOC 3. Lance In that order IF they were the only choices. In reality Lance would be about #48 for me.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:17:17 PM)
If Kwesi had any sense he would have spent the past couple of seasons preserving cap and amassing extra draft picks to move up in a given draft to select a top-rated QB. Instead, he chooses to create $50 million in dead cap, watches us land too far away to get a top QB, and shows he is a fool at drafting talent. Welcome to Mediocrityville, MN. Does Kwesi possess just ONE redeeming quality as a GM? Right now, he's an oh-fer.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:18:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lars No thanks on Lance or Rattler. Let's go get our real QBOTF. My vote is McCarthy. I think Kwesi is gonna feel the need to overcompensate this draft and might try to swing for the fences. Here's hoping he succeeds, because he has been DOGSHIT so far... If we somehow pick up a 3rd this year I wouldn't be pissed if they took a flyer on Rattler. Granted, I haven't seen a whole lot of his game but I read he has a howitzer but was super immature coming out of HS. Same read he cleaned that up and his WR's since have been as talented as me [:-]

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:23:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer 1 of @richeisen 's 5 Rumors from the NFL Combine: Trey Lance might be the Minnesota Vikings next QB Would you be satisfied with Lance, #11 Dallas Turner and #42 Rattler? I would prefer Fields over Lance but it gives you a young QB either way....Lance is younger then Nix and Penix. Fields is less than a year older. So what? Fields is also a non-starter. Fields is entering into the fourth and final year of his rookie contract but as a former first round pick, he's deal will also includes a fifth-year option that can be picked up for the 2025 season. Fields fifth-year option is expected to come in at $21.9 million in 2025. But what the hell. We can extend him and hide, err backload, his salary. Same as JJ. And likely Darrisaw. And apparently everyone. Or perhaps forking over picks to the Bears for a one-year rental is the way to go.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:26:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer 1 of @richeisen 's 5 Rumors from the NFL Combine: Trey Lance might be the Minnesota Vikings next QB Would you be satisfied with Lance, #11 Dallas Turner and #42 Rattler? I would prefer Fields over Lance but it gives you a young QB either way....Lance is younger then Nix and Penix. Fields is less than a year older. Agree but I think it would be more prudent to start from scratch and have a 4-5 year rookie window. We have good pieces on O but need so much help on D. It would be different if, per se, we had a SF type roster. We need to be cheap on QB for a few years while get our D more filled out. Especially depth. Trey Lance is a non-starter. - He is a year away from a guaranteed $22.4 million 5th year option. - If that is not exercised, he's a one-year rental that even Kwesi isn't going to use draft picks on. Yeap. I wouldn't touch Lance. My post wasn't very clear. What I meant was: 1. Go young draft pick 2. Give Fields a year or 2 to work with KOC 3. Lance In that order IF they were the only choices. In reality Lance would be about #48 for me. Fields give you one of the same problems as Lance. Same 5th year option time frame, only 500K cheaper than Trey.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:32:49 PM)
If there was an Elway or Manning in the draft, consider trading 3+ first rounders. This draft? Nope. Besides, Chi, Wash, and NE are going QB. Chi certainly isn't trading with us. We're in the running for McCarthy, Penix, or Nix.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:42:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen If there was an Elway or Manning in the draft, consider trading 3+ first rounders. This draft? Nope. Besides, Chi, Wash, and NE are going QB. Chi certainly isn't trading with us. We're in the running for McCarthy, Penix, or Nix. If we stay at 11, there is a solid chance that Penix and Nix are our only options.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:43:14 PM)
Mike Florio: “We can’t get into the specifics, for now. But we’re getting very credible indications that Cousins is seriously considering moving his family to Atlanta. Which would mean, obviously, that he’d be signing with the Falcons.”

Lars -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:51:56 PM)
Hard pass on Fields, too. I think we have seen his ceiling, IMHO. We have tried this re-tread route wayyyyy too many times. Let's go get a rookie QBOTF. And maybe another one until it works..... Rattler is a wasted draft pick IMHO.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:54:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen If there was an Elway or Manning in the draft, consider trading 3+ first rounders. This draft? Nope. Besides, Chi, Wash, and NE are going QB. Chi certainly isn't trading with us. We're in the running for McCarthy, Penix, or Nix. If we stay at 11, there is a solid chance that Penix and Nix are our only options. After a few games of musical chairs, it's back to Penix. We have our $25 million/year right tackle to supposedly protect his blind side. Trading down a bit for Penix might be an option but, as you've previously said, don't get cute (at QB, when you need a QB).

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 1:55:46 PM)
You know a top 10 pick will make more than Fields in 2024. Lance is 7 then 22; Fields is 4 then 25. If you go top 3 they make 41 million over 4 years with around a 24 million dollar signing bonus. 11th pick would be about half that $$$. So if you really are worried about money why trade up to top 3? Not sure when you have to pick up their option but I would prefer either over Wilson.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (3/5/2024 2:01:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer You know a top 10 pick will make more than Fields in 2024. Lance is 7 then 22; Fields is 4 then 25. If you go top 3 they make 41 million over 4 years with a around a 24 million dollar signing bonus. 11th pick would be about half that $$$. So if you really are worried about money why trade up to top 3? Who is advocating trading up to top 3? I specifically stated do it if there was an Elway or Manning but there isn't.

Page: << < prev 331 332 [333] 334 335 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5.5 Unicode