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Lynn G. -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 10:08:13 AM)

Who are you talking about. Me? I'm the one that posted that I had to turn the game off because it was so pitiful.

We're talking about the stadium, right?



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 10:12:04 AM)

We're talkign about the program they are putting out in the shiny new stadium.
Unacceptable.
Short term or long term.
It will be at least another 4-year cycle to get out from under this rock AGAIN.
That's what hurts most ... seeing all those gold-clad kids ... fresh intot he school, wanting to belong to something... wanting some success .... and they have to be embarassed like that.
The fan support for that game was trmemndous. Those kids gave their all, the whole game, and its disheartening as hell.
What's left for them?



Lynn G. -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 10:14:36 AM)

My only point was that the program NEEDED a new stadium. They've been playing off campus for (30?) years for pete's sake. In a sterile dome, with no atmosphere, with a negative recruiting factor...

The program needed the stadium for the long term health. The ugly product that played last week has nothing to do with that fact.



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 10:17:32 AM)

Yep, they DID
They GOT one
And they have filled it with a crappy program that no one will want to go watch.
NOT disagreeing with YOU



Lynn G. -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 10:19:36 AM)

I guarantee you it would be much harder to turn it around from here if they were still playing in the dome.



TJSweens -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 12:04:58 PM)

Brewster is really more of a symptom of the problem than the problem. The problem is that the Gophers pay little more than lip service to the idea of building a competitive football program. The heart of the issue is that they are too f***ing cheap to have a competitive process. Brewster was a cheap hire. Consider that Ted Roof quit his DC job here to take the same position at Alabama for about 2 to 3 times what Brewster gets as a HC. Quit pinching pennies in your new stadium. Man up and pay for a legitmate division 1 coach and staff. Winning brings in money. Money pays the bills for the athletic department.



djskillz -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 12:08:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Brewster is really more of a symptom of the problem than the problem. The problem is that the Gophers pay little more than lip service to the idea of building a competitive football program. The heart of the issue is that they are too f***ing cheap to have a competitive process. Brewster was a cheap hire. Consider that Ted Roof quit his DC job here to take the same position at Alabama for about 2 to 3 times what Brewster gets as a HC. Quit pinching pennies in your new stadium. Man up and pay for a legitmate division 1 coach and staff. Winning brings in money. Money pays the bills for the athletic department.


Couldn't agree more.

You need to anty up for a coach at the college level. You get the right coach, the recruits come. The recruits come, you win games.

Pretty simple line of logic.



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 12:08:28 PM)

Yep.
And the two should have went hand-in-hand, starting years ago (building a solid program to play in the shiny new venue), was my point.
Instead, they went on the cheap, and now they have a lemon of a jalopy sitting inside a brand-new state-of-the-art garage.
EMPTY new stadiums suck more than full crappy old ones. (yeah, I know, it was never that full for Goph games)



TJSweens -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 12:28:09 PM)

For all of the crap Maturi spews about coaching changes not being the answer lets review the coaches they have hired since Murry Warmath.

Call Stoll: Nice cheap hire after compiling a head coaching record of 15-17 in 3 years at Wake Forest.
Smokey Joe Salem: 9 year coaching record of 51-39-2 for South Dakota, the school that just delivered us the mother of all embarrassments.
Lou Holtz: 60-21-2 record and 6 Bowl appearances at Arkansas, which was on the heals of a 33-12-3 with 4 bowls at NC State.
John Gutikenst: An easy inexpensive hire since he has never been anything more than a defensive coordinator in house for Holtz.
Jeezo Beezo Jim Wacker: Like Joe Salem, a career DII coach. Never did better than an 8th place tie.
Glen Mason: Track record of turning around Kent State and Kansas.
Tim Brewster: A career assistant coach at the college and NFL level.

Notice the 2 times they went out and hired coaches with division 1 pedigree those coaches left the program better off than when they inherited it. Blow the dust off the check book. Open it up and write one of the few checks that moths haven't eaten to a legit head coach. Hell, go ahead and sell alcohol at the stadium to pay for it.



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 12:58:46 PM)

Stole my next thought, Tim ... if nothing else ... let the kids drink at these horrific games.
At least you can keep them all in one place, and they'll enjoy the nice place to have a party.



Jim Frenette -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 1:49:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Brewster is really more of a symptom of the problem than the problem. The problem is that the Gophers pay little more than lip service to the idea of building a competitive football program. The heart of the issue is that they are too f***ing cheap to have a competitive process. Brewster was a cheap hire. Consider that Ted Roof quit his DC job here to take the same position at Alabama for about 2 to 3 times what Brewster gets as a HC. Quit pinching pennies in your new stadium. Man up and pay for a legitmate division 1 coach and staff. Winning brings in money. Money pays the bills for the athletic department.


You hit the nail on the head. In order to get a competitive coaching staff and keep them together you have to pay them or they will jump at a moments notice



TJSweens -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 2:29:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Stole my next thought, Tim ... if nothing else ... let the kids drink at these horrific games.
At least you can keep them all in one place, and they'll enjoy the nice place to have a party.


That's another myth. This whole thing about not selling alcohol at games to curtail underage drinking. These kids aren't going to pay $6 for a beer at the game. They are each going to pay $6 for a 12 pack and get shitfaced before the game.



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 2:30:23 PM)

Winning brings in money. Money pays the bills for the athletic department.

Phi Slamma Jamma
or
Bingo!
We've tried sucking ... and that has had drastic results.
Lets give the other way a try, huh? Please?



TJSweens -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 2:53:56 PM)

According to El Sid, the Gophers' football budget is dead last in the Big Ten.



Jeff Jesser -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 2:57:34 PM)

According to the general laws of the living.  El Sid is dead [:-]


That isn't surprising though. 



Guest -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 3:17:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

According to El Sid, the Gophers' football budget is dead last in the Big Ten.


I know I had suggested a head coach from a premier DII or DI FCS school rather than some assistant hack at a DI FBS but your list of previous head coaches was very interesting.

I know that both Salem and Wacker were awful.  But Salem did not have the established program at USD like the NDSU program.  Wacker, he was living off the dynasty that Ron Erhardt built at NDSU and though he compiled a great record, he didn't build the program.  Erhardt is the one coach from NSDU who should have been snatched up by the Gophers.  He built the NDSU dynasty of the 60's.  He later went into the pros and did become head coach of the New England Patriots for two years and compiled a good yet not spectacular record.  He should have remained a college coach.

But the failure to spend money....is this the fault of administration or is it the fault of the athletic department to fund raise?  Or is it a problem that the University won't use its foundation to fund raise for athletics? 

If that's the case, then the AD and his people have to pound the pavement and do the fundraising necessary to get at least the money to get a competitive coach.

I still say that the lack of competition of DI programs within the state makes the athletic program at the U soft.  They expect it to happen cause they are the only game in the state, they are located in the largest metro area of all the Big Ten schools with the exception of Northwestern and they expect it to just happen.  It doesn't. 



Lynn G. -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 3:27:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Brewster is really more of a symptom of the problem than the problem. The problem is that the Gophers pay little more than lip service to the idea of building a competitive football program. The heart of the issue is that they are too f***ing cheap to have a competitive process. Brewster was a cheap hire. Consider that Ted Roof quit his DC job here to take the same position at Alabama for about 2 to 3 times what Brewster gets as a HC. Quit pinching pennies in your new stadium. Man up and pay for a legitmate division 1 coach and staff. Winning brings in money. Money pays the bills for the athletic department.


I agree with the others who say this is a good post.

How did Wisconsin turn it around? According to my husband - Wisconsin born and bred - the Badger football program was really stuttering until Barry Alvarez came on board. Previous to that the teams were pretty lousy and Camp Randall was practically empty on gameday. Was Alvarez's recruiting and coaching just so good that they turned things around? I'm thinking it just might come down to that. And of course once you start winning, recruiting becomes easier and the stands start to fill up.



Karl H -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 4:23:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.
Was Alvarez's recruiting and coaching just so good that they turned things around? I'm thinking it just might come down to that. And of course once you start winning, recruiting becomes easier and the stands start to fill up.


I'm not sure on the recruiting part.  Wisconsin's recruiting classes are typically dominated with 3 star players.  They normally end up with more 2 star recruits than 4 & 5's put together in a given year.  Actually, their classes look much more similar to Brewsters classes than an Ohio State or Michigan. 

Of course it's always possible that the Wisconsin staff are smarter than Rivals & Scout, but I think they are just good at signing the right players for their kind of system. 



SoMnFan -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 5:07:55 PM)

(gulp!) Wisconsin's the model. It is. Follow it. Was pathetic, now a power. And will stay that way.
Iowa as well. Found THE GUY, and just extended him (lucratively) until 2020.



TJSweens -> RE: Gopher Football (9/13/2010 8:09:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.
Was Alvarez's recruiting and coaching just so good that they turned things around? I'm thinking it just might come down to that. And of course once you start winning, recruiting becomes easier and the stands start to fill up.


I'm not sure on the recruiting part.  Wisconsin's recruiting classes are typically dominated with 3 star players.  They normally end up with more 2 star recruits than 4 & 5's put together in a given year.  Actually, their classes look much more similar to Brewsters classes than an Ohio State or Michigan. 

Of course it's always possible that the Wisconsin staff are smarter than Rivals & Scout, but I think they are just good at signing the right players for their kind of system. 


Yah, my recollection is that Alverez never pulled in elite recruiting classes. Pretty much middle of the pack, but they fit the system and were well coached in that system.



Guest -> RE: Gopher Football (9/14/2010 9:19:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

(gulp!) Wisconsin's the model. It is. Follow it. Was pathetic, now a power. And will stay that way.
Iowa as well. Found THE GUY, and just extended him (lucratively) until 2020.


Iowa has a little more tradition in Football.  In the 50's, they were coached by Forest Evashevski (sp) and there were pretty good......some great stories about Forest by Alex Karras who absolutely hated his coach.

Then a drought that Hayden Fry corrected....and he rebuilt the program.  They were very good in the 80's but Fry lost his edge and they weren't as good in the 90's.  Hiring Kirk Ferentz was a very good decision. 

If you can win in Iowa City, why not the Twin Cities.......we have two vs. their one.[;)]



Jim Frenette -> RE: Gopher Football (9/14/2010 11:52:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynn G.
Was Alvarez's recruiting and coaching just so good that they turned things around? I'm thinking it just might come down to that. And of course once you start winning, recruiting becomes easier and the stands start to fill up.


I'm not sure on the recruiting part.  Wisconsin's recruiting classes are typically dominated with 3 star players.  They normally end up with more 2 star recruits than 4 & 5's put together in a given year.  Actually, their classes look much more similar to Brewsters classes than an Ohio State or Michigan. 

Of course it's always possible that the Wisconsin staff are smarter than Rivals & Scout, but I think they are just good at signing the right players for their kind of system. 


Yah, my recollection is that Alverez never pulled in elite recruiting classes. Pretty much middle of the pack, but they fit the system and were well coached in that system.


And they had a much bigger football budget and able to keep good coaches around. I think we would have to see what the budget was before Alvarez. I do know the President that hired him who is now at Miami made it a point to make the team better. I can't think of her name but she was in Clintons administration



TJSweens -> RE: Gopher Football (9/14/2010 11:59:15 AM)

Very true Jim. As I said earlier, Ted Roof left the Gophers to coach at a place where he makes 2 to 3 times what Brewster makes to be a defensive coordinator. The fact that he was more qualified to be a head coach than the guy he was working for probably wasn't lost on him either. The timing of the Mason firing is no longer a surprise to me. I thought it odd to fire him when he was on the verge of recruiting and coaching in the new stadium. I think they looked at the numbers and decided now that Mason had elevated them from laughing stock status to mediocrity they could bring in a cheaper coach to sustain that level.



Karl H -> RE: Gopher Football (9/14/2010 8:48:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Brewster is really more of a symptom of the problem than the problem. The problem is that the Gophers pay little more than lip service to the idea of building a competitive football program. The heart of the issue is that they are too f***ing cheap to have a competitive process. Brewster was a cheap hire. Consider that Ted Roof quit his DC job here to take the same position at Alabama for about 2 to 3 times what Brewster gets as a HC. Quit pinching pennies in your new stadium. Man up and pay for a legitmate division 1 coach and staff. Winning brings in money. Money pays the bills for the athletic department.


I agree in large part regarding the money issues with the Gopher football program.  But just curious where you found those salary figures for Ted Roof.  Not doubting you, just seeing different stuff.



As for the next coach, I don't care much where he comes from...just so it's the right guy.  A guy from a small college is fine, if he can coach!  Look no further than Jim Tressell & Kirk Ferentz.  I'm putting together a list of possible coaches candidates.  I'll post it if it ever gets finished.  Getting pretty long though!  But right now I'll throw out one name:  Jeff Jagodzinski.  Anyone remember him?




Lynn G. -> RE: Gopher Football (9/14/2010 8:56:05 PM)

I remember when he coached for Green Bay. It didn't seem like he had very good results there.



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