RE: Players and prospects III (Full Version)

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twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:28:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MDK

You give Plouffe a 9 and Wilson a 7

Plouffe: 1746 at bats, 223 runs, 100 2b, 5 3b, 62 HR, 224 rbis, 3.91 at bats / run, .245 .309 .415 .724

Wilson: 1179 at bats, 125 runs, 52 2b, 1 3b, 46 HR, 173 rbi, 3.96 at bats/run, .269 .317 .432 .749


??????

Plus defensive position.

I see progression w/ Plouffe, plus more playing time. See the cumulative numbers.

How about if I give them both 8's and keep the overall score the same?


I'm ok with that........but when all is said and done, Wilson Ramos (as long as he stays somewhat healthy) will put up better numbers than Plouffe. His career Wins Above Keanu Reeves will be higher.[;)]

I changed my mind. Plouffe stays a 9 and Ramos a 7 for now. Still time for Ramos to move up all the way to a 10. Also time for Plouffe to move up to a 10.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:31:09 PM)

twinsfan's Rating System

Brilliant or Boneheaded?



MDK -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:35:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Black 47

And I won't blame Billy one bit for the return he got for Hardy. He was forced to trade him at his lowest value.

Billy wasn't forced to trade him at all. He was too much of a whimp to stand up to Gardy. That was where he needed to sit Gardenweasel down and explain "Here's the thing Ron, you work for me and we're not trading him."

The Delmon trade sucked, but once again, he was in a tough position. He needed to replace Hunter. Gardy and Anderson hated Garza. Delmon had unlimited potential. The trade made sense. It just didn't work. I applaud Billy for taking a risk. Ryan's too scared to take risks.

This was a stupid risk. Delmon was not a replacement for Hunter. Trading his #1 pitching prospect when he knew he was going to trade his ace pitcher over the winter was just plain mind numbingly stupid.




But Tim, where were the baseball advisors? Sure he should have stood up to Gardy. He should have stood up to Gardy when he gave him a contract extension and the Twins first act was to give Punto a 2 year contract that was for a starting shortstop rather than a utility infielder.

Smith actually tried to take the sharp scissors out of Gardy's hand (otherwise known as Punto) in his first offseason by getting Everett and Mike Lamb at short and third......it didn't work and ultimately, short became Punto's position and Harris wound up at third after doing very well at short. Punto produced a 726 ops. The team finished second and Gardy got a contract extension. Then, while every other organization was taking a wait and see attitude with FA signings, because of the Oct. crash of the markets, etc., the Twins sign Punto to the new contract. I have no doubt that Gardy went in and told BS that he wanted Punto.

Again, where were other baseball people for BS to listen to.....

He ended up letting Gardy walk over him. Gardy didn't like Garza and he didn't find Bartlett all that great when they were traded to Tampa in the offseason before 2008.

Bill Smith was not an evaluator of baseball talent. He needed one, just one good baseball mind independent of the manager, coaches, the Pohlads to help him in this area. He trusted people around him to help him out....that was his major problem.



TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:38:08 PM)

Tough shit. He wanted the job. He should have pulled on his big boy pants and done it.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:42:39 PM)

Sweeney must be skimming my posts again. He didn't say a word about Blackburn's 5 rating and Slowey's 6.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:46:06 PM)

That's the whole damn reason I started the project.



TJSweens -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:46:21 PM)

I saw it and recognized what it was. [sm=fishhook.gif]

FWIW, I never skim your posts. Way too entertaining.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 3:47:39 PM)

I saw you lurking in there and knew it was killing you to not post what you wanted to post. Good willpower, man.



CPAMAN -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 4:25:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

I'm gonna assign a major league success value (0-10) for each player that has appeared on a Top 10 list from 2006-2011
Gibson 4
Wimmers 0
Hicks 3
Sano 0
Hendriks 2
Revere 7
Arcia 4
Bullock 0
Salcedo 0
Kepler 0

Ramos 7
Valencia 4
Gutierrez 0
A. Morales 0
Bromberg 0
Hunt 0
Mijares 8
Mulvey 1
Delaney 1
Parmelee 3
Blackburn 5
Benson 1
Robertson 1
Swarzak 5
Pridie 1
Duensing 6
Manship 1
Plouffe 9
Slowey 6
Garza 10
Perkins 8
Waldrop 1
Neshek 8
DeVries 2
O. Sosa 0
Liriano 10
Kubel 9
Moses 0
Span 10
Rainville 0



Mijares, Neshek and PAB get an 8 and Liriano, Garza and Span a 10? I think a 10 should be reserved for potentially a future HOF type player. And Plouffe and Kubel a 9? Except for the 0-3 players, drop every player on your list by a score of 2-3 and it would be more appropriate. For example, Plouffe should be absolutely no higher than a 6-7. 6.5 would be about right. Liriano a 7-at best.

I stand by my rating system because you can't expect any prospect to be a HOFer. That's unreasonable. If a prospect pans out to be a definite above-average long-term answer on a major league roster(s) and is basically healthy, he's a 10 in my prospect rearview mirror rating system.

I've kinda capped out relievers at an 8. If they were any good, they would have been starters. They don't pitch enough innings and are easily replaceable. If a reliever was top-notch for an extended career, I may be able to be talked into giving him a 9.

If a guy does not make the majors, he of course gets a 0.

Cup-of-coffee type guys get a 1.

DeVries types get a 2.


So you are saying Joe Mauer would get at 10 under your system. Hmmm, that makes the #10 category very extreme. You could be a legitimate ML player all the way to a 1st ballot HOF like Joe. [;)]



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 4:48:34 PM)

Remember I did once pose the question Is Joe Mauer a Bust? So not so fast on the automatic 10.



wethrock -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 11:02:49 PM)

At AA level, Twins in NB used to have almost all younger players (25 or under). And, the non-prospects were very seldom bad players. That's unlike some organizations at AA who either have a lot of old guys or very marginal players. But, somewhere along the way, the Twins started looking like those other teams. I'd have to look back to see when I first noticed that and then try to relate it to when there was a change in GMs.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/2/2014 11:05:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wethrock

At AA level, Twins in NB used to have almost all younger players (25 or under). And, the non-prospects were very seldom bad players. That's unlike some organizations at AA who either have a lot of old guys or very marginal players. But, somewhere along the way, the Twins started looking like those other teams. I'd have to look back to see when I first noticed that and then try to relate it to when there was a change in GMs.

But does it really matter if the non-prospects are good or bad players? Maybe for the fans in attendance. But beyond that, I'm not sure it really matters much.



Stacey King -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/3/2014 9:50:21 AM)

MW Lg top prospects

6. Kohl Stewart, rhp, Cedar Rapids (Twins)

Age: 19. B-T: R-R. Ht.: 6-3. Wt.: 195. Drafted: HS—Houston, 2013 (1).

Scouts were more enamored of Stewart than managers. Maybe that was because his strengths were a little different than expected. The righthander showed athleticism and an ability to use four pitches. He didn’t always show the dominant fastball expected from the first prep righthander selected in his draft class, and he didn’t miss many bats, though he did generate ample weak contact.

“I’m not seeing blow-you-away stuff,” one opposing manager said.

Stewart’s relatively straight fastball sits 92-96 mph, and he locates it well. He has a chance to have four average or better pitches. His slider could end up being plus, but he also throws a downer curveball that shows a chance to be average and an average changeup.

Stewart’s health is another question. He missed much of July and August with shoulder problems. He exited his final start of the year because his velocity had dipped into the high 80s.



djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/4/2014 11:50:27 AM)

I'd disagree with a lot of the ratings, Matt. But the overall rating system is fine. Really hits on why we're bad now; there were some LEAN years there under Bill Smith. Now when we have the best system in Twins' history it makes it look even worse by comparison.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/6/2014 2:12:00 PM)

Hunter Dozier came through with the top score in the Arizona Fall League's Bowman Hitting Challenge Friday night, and he had a namesake who helped make it a sweep. Hunter Renfroe, one of San Diego's top prospects, logged the top score for any National League player in Friday's event.
Dozier, ranked as Kansas City's No. 4 prospect by MLB.com, delivered a monster round in the hitting challenge at Salt River Fields. He drilled two homers and hit one of the obstacles -- a large inflatabale ball with someone inside it -- three times, including once with a bonus ball on his final swing.
Dozier, a third baseman, scored 3,150 points, narrowly edging Max Kepler of the Twins (3,050)

Kepler is a guy I wish would jump forward, or be force-fed to jump forward.



SoMnFan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/6/2014 2:15:20 PM)

Another Dozier ripping it up. [:D]



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/6/2014 3:42:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Hunter Dozier came through with the top score in the Arizona Fall League's Bowman Hitting Challenge Friday night, and he had a namesake who helped make it a sweep. Hunter Renfroe, one of San Diego's top prospects, logged the top score for any National League player in Friday's event.
Dozier, ranked as Kansas City's No. 4 prospect by MLB.com, delivered a monster round in the hitting challenge at Salt River Fields. He drilled two homers and hit one of the obstacles -- a large inflatabale ball with someone inside it -- three times, including once with a bonus ball on his final swing.
Dozier, a third baseman, scored 3,150 points, narrowly edging Max Kepler of the Twins (3,050)

Kepler is a guy I wish would jump forward, or be force-fed to jump forward.

He had a pretty nondescript year.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/8/2014 11:42:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

I'm gonna assign a major league success value (0-10) for each player that has appeared on a Top 10 list from 2006-2011

Gibson 4
Wimmers 0
Hicks 3
Sano 0
Hendriks 2
Revere 7
Arcia 4
Bullock 0
Salcedo 0
Kepler 0
Ramos 7
Valencia 4
Gutierrez 0
A. Morales 0
Bromberg 0
Hunt 0
Mijares 8
Mulvey 1
Delaney 1
Parmelee 3
Blackburn 5
Benson 1
Robertson 1
Swarzak 5
Pridie 1
Duensing 6
Manship 1
Plouffe 9
Slowey 6
Garza 10
Perkins 8
Waldrop 1
Neshek 8
DeVries 2
O. Sosa 0
Liriano 10
Kubel 9
Moses 0
Span 10
Rainville 0

Dustin, you noted that you would argue with many of the ratings I've assigned. I forgot to ask you which ones you would change. I'm curious to know.



twinsfan -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/8/2014 11:51:02 AM)

Salt River lost 7-4 in the opener.

Buxton with a bad day. 0-4, BB, and a throwing error.

Rosario 2-4, RBI

Jason Adam shelled in 1 inning. 3 ER, 3 H, 1 BB



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/8/2014 1:04:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Salt River lost 7-4 in the opener.

Buxton with a bad day. 0-4, BB, and a throwing error.

Rosario 2-4, RBI

Jason Adam shelled in 1 inning. 3 ER, 3 H, 1 BB


Buston and Rosario also had a stolen base. Rosairio played LF. No surprise there.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/9/2014 10:48:30 AM)

As noted elsewhere 6-3 win for Salt River

Buxton 2-5/R, Kepler 1-4/SB, played RF

Buxton had another scarlet letter, er Error

Reed 2IP 4K

And they left him in MW league. Joke.



MDK -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/9/2014 10:50:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

As noted elsewhere 6-3 win for Salt River

Buxton 2-5/R, Kepler 1-4/SB, played RF

Buxton had another scarlet letter, er Error

Reed 2IP 4K

And they left him in MW league. Joke.


Any chance we can try him out at shortstop??????

[sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif][sm=banghead.gif]



djskillz -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/9/2014 11:00:44 AM)

No doubts at all that Buxton will be back with a vengeance. Kid is a stud and his future starts THIS year in Minnesota. Can't wait.

Reed really has the potential to rise very fast this year. Another potential bullpen arm late in the season if not 2016.

Hoping Kepler can hold his own in AFL this year too. Big year for him. Gotta think he starts this year in Chattanooga. Doesn't turn 22 until February. I'm still high on his future.

Going to see them in AZ in a couple weeks. Will send a report.



Mr. Ed -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/10/2014 5:56:09 AM)

Salt River 7-3 win

Rosario is a LF at this point, batted 2nd 2-5/R/RBI/SB(2), Kepler 1-5/R/Assist@3rd

Rogers 2.2IP 3H/R/2BB/3K
ZJones 2IP H/BB/3K



MDK -> RE: Players and prospects III (10/10/2014 8:19:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Salt River 7-3 win

Rosario is a LF at this point, batted 2nd 2-5/R/RBI/SB(2), Kepler 1-5/R/Assist@3rd

Rogers 2.2IP 3H/R/2BB/3K
ZJones 2IP H/BB/3K



Of course....we have a second baseman. No need in adding value to Rosario for a trade or a trade of Dozier.

Pretty soon, Sano will be in the outfield, Rosario, and we will move Buxton to shortstop.

Maybe they have Pinto schedule to pitch and trade him to the NL........he can be a pitcher and bat cleanup.



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