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RE: Twins Game Day 2017

 
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RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 11:19:03 AM   
McMurfy


Posts: 10177
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Good to see Molly hold an impromptu meeting in-game yesterday in game one
These guys need THAT Molitor
It looked awesome



Word on the street was that you had soured on Molitor

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RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 11:30:16 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 24320
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
Yes, but he hadn't soured on THAT Molitor.

_____________________________

When you have good players that aren’t particularly good leaders, their coaches or managers will say that they “lead by example.” It’s a polite way of saying they don’t lead. - Tom Powers
Post #: 4052
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 11:33:06 AM   
twinsfan


Posts: 34616
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Yes, but he hadn't soured on THAT Molitor.



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So I just dream and keep on bein' the way I am.
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RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 11:33:33 AM   
twinsfan


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Brilliant Sweens. Freakin' brilliant!

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So I just dream and keep on bein' the way I am.
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RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 11:36:41 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 24320
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online
BTW, I loved this nugget from LaTroy Hawkins on his tenure in Colorado. Marnie told him that he commanded a lot of respect in the Rockies clubhouse and he was surprised they didn't bring up his fight with Tommy Kahnle

To which Dick chimed in “Well, it was just good natured, right?”

“No. One of the worst teammates I’ve ever had in my life, by far. And I’ve had a lot of teammates.”

LaTroy has always been pretty unfiltered. Another reason I always liked him.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/05/17/latroy-hawkins-got-into-a-fight-with-a-teammate-in-2014-he-talked-about-it-on-fsn/

_____________________________

When you have good players that aren’t particularly good leaders, their coaches or managers will say that they “lead by example.” It’s a polite way of saying they don’t lead. - Tom Powers
Post #: 4055
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 11:37:23 AM   
twinsfan


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Status: offline
Anyone hear the Twins radio broadcasts yesterday? Provus is on with Judd and Long right now, and they are talking about all the arguing Provus and Gladden did in the booth yesterday. Crap. That woulda been fun to hear.

_____________________________

So I just dream and keep on bein' the way I am.
Post #: 4056
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 12:02:01 PM   
McMurfy


Posts: 10177
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Yes, but he hadn't soured on THAT Molitor.





I don't get it?

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In Paul We Trust
Post #: 4057
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 12:05:33 PM   
twinsfan


Posts: 34616
Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Yes, but he hadn't soured on THAT Molitor.





I don't get it?

Well there's the Molitor that SMF soured on (I pointed this out the other day) and there's THAT Molitor, the one he loves.

_____________________________

So I just dream and keep on bein' the way I am.
Post #: 4058
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 12:23:41 PM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 26620
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

There's two strands of thought here:

-Do you go with the guy who could be a generational, multi-Cy Young talent ... but if he busts (and he could, as the history of HS pitchers shows), you lose the $8M on him and miss out on talent later because you're strapped for cash?

or

-Do you go with the guy who looks like a relatively safe No. 2 or 3 who you'll pay $5M and spend the extra $3M on talent in the next few picks?

Really interesting stuff. The Astros played it pretty well in the Correa draft when they got him and Lance McCullers because they went under slot at No. 1.


I thought they had limits on how much money #1 draft picks receive. Since when does it cost $8 million to sign a high school lonnnnnngggggg-term prospect? I thought the CBA said no team could influence draft picks by throwing extra money their way.


Anyone know about this stuff? Nobody responded yet.

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Minnesota professional sports can't be awful forever, can they?
Post #: 4059
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 12:25:15 PM   
twinsfan


Posts: 34616
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

There's two strands of thought here:

-Do you go with the guy who could be a generational, multi-Cy Young talent ... but if he busts (and he could, as the history of HS pitchers shows), you lose the $8M on him and miss out on talent later because you're strapped for cash?

or

-Do you go with the guy who looks like a relatively safe No. 2 or 3 who you'll pay $5M and spend the extra $3M on talent in the next few picks?

Really interesting stuff. The Astros played it pretty well in the Correa draft when they got him and Lance McCullers because they went under slot at No. 1.


I thought they had limits on how much money #1 draft picks receive. Since when does it cost $8 million to sign a high school lonnnnnngggggg-term prospect? I thought the CBA said no team could influence draft picks by throwing extra money their way.


Anyone know about this stuff? Nobody responded yet.

Dustin is your guy.

_____________________________

So I just dream and keep on bein' the way I am.
Post #: 4060
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 12:30:07 PM   
ronhextall


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Seems to me you figure out who the best player available is and draft him. #1 overall is not the time to count pennies.
Post #: 4061
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 12:48:52 PM   
sixthwi


Posts: 15353
Joined: 12/17/2007
From: Packerland
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Seems to me you figure out who the best player available is and draft him. #1 overall is not the time to count pennies.


It's not a matter of saving money. It's whether they want to get the best player and the 35th and 37th best player or maybe the 2nd or 3rd best player, save some money and then maybe end up with the 20th and 25th best guys also.

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RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 1:02:03 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 56444
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: sixthwi

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Seems to me you figure out who the best player available is and draft him. #1 overall is not the time to count pennies.


It's not a matter of saving money. It's whether they want to get the best player and the 35th and 37th best player or maybe the 2nd or 3rd best player, save some money and then maybe end up with the 20th and 25th best guys also.


I take option #1 if there is a clear difference between the top guys. Especially with how nebulous scouting can be between picks 20 and 37.

If #1 has superstar potential that should be the deciding factor. Give me one legit star and 2 busts over 3 good-very good players.
Post #: 4063
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 1:09:38 PM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 67668
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
Status: online
Drought

Ended

Jose Berrios is the first @Twins SP since Francisco Liriano in 2010 to strike out 11+ hitters w/o allowing a run

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Minnesota Sports: Home of Under-Achieving and Disappointment.
Post #: 4064
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 1:10:50 PM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 67668
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

There's two strands of thought here:

-Do you go with the guy who could be a generational, multi-Cy Young talent ... but if he busts (and he could, as the history of HS pitchers shows), you lose the $8M on him and miss out on talent later because you're strapped for cash?

or

-Do you go with the guy who looks like a relatively safe No. 2 or 3 who you'll pay $5M and spend the extra $3M on talent in the next few picks?

Really interesting stuff. The Astros played it pretty well in the Correa draft when they got him and Lance McCullers because they went under slot at No. 1.


I thought they had limits on how much money #1 draft picks receive. Since when does it cost $8 million to sign a high school lonnnnnngggggg-term prospect? I thought the CBA said no team could influence draft picks by throwing extra money their way.


Anyone know about this stuff? Nobody responded yet.

Dustin is your guy.



http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-mlb-draft-slots-bonus-pools/#rRwEthogaWODetYF.97



The Twins will have the first pick in the 2017 draft and the largest bonus pool, giving them a financial advantage over every other team. But that advantage is significantly less than it has been in past years.

After Major League Baseball decided to compress the difference between slots at the top of the draft in the latest Collective Bargaining Agreement, the Twins’ top draft slot is set at $7,770,700, according to the final official slots that were recently sent to all 30 major league teams.

The Twins’ allotment is roughly $1.25 million less than what the Phillies were slotted for the top pick in last year’s draft. The Reds’ second pick ($7,193,200) is a $569,700 reduction from last year. But at the Padres’ third pick, the slot allotment is actually $157,000 higher than last year’s. Every pick from third to 60th is actually a higher allotment than last year before it switches over again, with lower slots throughout the rest of the top 10 rounds.

This adjustment will change the incentives and the bargaining power at the top of the draft. The Astros worked a deal with Carlos Correa at the top of the 2012 draft (the first under the new slotting rules) and used the savings on his deal to land Lance McCullers and Rio Ruiz to slot-busting deals later on in the draft. In the five drafts held under the current rules, only once has the top pick in the draft received the largest bonus (Dansby Swanson in 2015).

And no player has come close to receiving the full value of the first pick in those five years. The signing bonus record under the current system is the $6,708,400 Kris Bryant received as the second pick in the 2013 draft. Carlos Rodon (third pick, 2014) is the only other player to receive more than $6.5 million under the current rules, even though the slot for the top spot has been at $7.2 million or more in each of the past five drafts.

Teams are assuredly delving deep into game theory to figure out what is the best approach to using the new slots, but there are some obvious adjustments to come. For one, the teams picking at the top have much less leverage than they had under the slots of previous years. Last year, the team picking at the top had a nearly $2 million advantage over the team picking second in last year’s draft and a massive $4.3 million advantage over the team picking fourth.

That massive difference meant a player who was in the mix to go 1-1 in recent years knew that if he turned down the offer at No. 1 and fell just a few spots to fourth or fifth, he was assured of getting significantly less money, even if the team picking No. 1 offered him a deal well below slot. Since these rules began in 2012, no player taken after the third pick has landed a deal of $5 million or more–Riley Pint’s $4.8 million bonus as the fourth pick in 2016 and Kohl Stewart’s $4.544 million as the fourth pick in 2013 are the only players taken fourth or later to land a bonus larger than $4.5 million.

But in the top three picks, 12 of the 14 players who have signed from 2012 to 2016 have landed bonuses of $4.8 million or more. So under the slots until this year, there was a massive incentive to work out a deal in the top three picks.

This year, there’s much less danger financially for a player who slides from the top pick to even sixth or seventh. Last year, the Brewers had only $4,382,200 slotted for the fifth pick. This year, the Diamondbacks could offer $5 million to a player they pick at pick seven without going above their slot.

The Twins have the largest total allotment with $14,156,800 but the Reds aren’t far behind at $13,658,400. The Cardinals have the smallest allotment ($2,176,000) after they forfeited their first pick to sign free agent Dexter Fowler and then were ordered to send their second-round pick (pick 56) and their supplemental second round pick (pick 75) to the Astros as penalty for former scouting director Chris Correa’s hacking into the Astros’ database. St. Louis’ first pick is not until pick 94.


Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-mlb-draft-slots-bonus-pools/#rJefuZMrLEzskuSW.99


_____________________________

Minnesota Sports: Home of Under-Achieving and Disappointment.
Post #: 4065
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 2:26:24 PM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 26620
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete M.

There's two strands of thought here:

-Do you go with the guy who could be a generational, multi-Cy Young talent ... but if he busts (and he could, as the history of HS pitchers shows), you lose the $8M on him and miss out on talent later because you're strapped for cash?

or

-Do you go with the guy who looks like a relatively safe No. 2 or 3 who you'll pay $5M and spend the extra $3M on talent in the next few picks?

Really interesting stuff. The Astros played it pretty well in the Correa draft when they got him and Lance McCullers because they went under slot at No. 1.


I thought they had limits on how much money #1 draft picks receive. Since when does it cost $8 million to sign a high school lonnnnnngggggg-term prospect? I thought the CBA said no team could influence draft picks by throwing extra money their way.


Anyone know about this stuff? Nobody responded yet.

Dustin is your guy.



http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-mlb-draft-slots-bonus-pools/#rRwEthogaWODetYF.97



The Twins will have the first pick in the 2017 draft and the largest bonus pool, giving them a financial advantage over every other team. But that advantage is significantly less than it has been in past years.

After Major League Baseball decided to compress the difference between slots at the top of the draft in the latest Collective Bargaining Agreement, the Twins’ top draft slot is set at $7,770,700, according to the final official slots that were recently sent to all 30 major league teams.

The Twins’ allotment is roughly $1.25 million less than what the Phillies were slotted for the top pick in last year’s draft. The Reds’ second pick ($7,193,200) is a $569,700 reduction from last year. But at the Padres’ third pick, the slot allotment is actually $157,000 higher than last year’s. Every pick from third to 60th is actually a higher allotment than last year before it switches over again, with lower slots throughout the rest of the top 10 rounds.

This adjustment will change the incentives and the bargaining power at the top of the draft. The Astros worked a deal with Carlos Correa at the top of the 2012 draft (the first under the new slotting rules) and used the savings on his deal to land Lance McCullers and Rio Ruiz to slot-busting deals later on in the draft. In the five drafts held under the current rules, only once has the top pick in the draft received the largest bonus (Dansby Swanson in 2015).

And no player has come close to receiving the full value of the first pick in those five years. The signing bonus record under the current system is the $6,708,400 Kris Bryant received as the second pick in the 2013 draft. Carlos Rodon (third pick, 2014) is the only other player to receive more than $6.5 million under the current rules, even though the slot for the top spot has been at $7.2 million or more in each of the past five drafts.

Teams are assuredly delving deep into game theory to figure out what is the best approach to using the new slots, but there are some obvious adjustments to come. For one, the teams picking at the top have much less leverage than they had under the slots of previous years. Last year, the team picking at the top had a nearly $2 million advantage over the team picking second in last year’s draft and a massive $4.3 million advantage over the team picking fourth.

That massive difference meant a player who was in the mix to go 1-1 in recent years knew that if he turned down the offer at No. 1 and fell just a few spots to fourth or fifth, he was assured of getting significantly less money, even if the team picking No. 1 offered him a deal well below slot. Since these rules began in 2012, no player taken after the third pick has landed a deal of $5 million or more–Riley Pint’s $4.8 million bonus as the fourth pick in 2016 and Kohl Stewart’s $4.544 million as the fourth pick in 2013 are the only players taken fourth or later to land a bonus larger than $4.5 million.

But in the top three picks, 12 of the 14 players who have signed from 2012 to 2016 have landed bonuses of $4.8 million or more. So under the slots until this year, there was a massive incentive to work out a deal in the top three picks.

This year, there’s much less danger financially for a player who slides from the top pick to even sixth or seventh. Last year, the Brewers had only $4,382,200 slotted for the fifth pick. This year, the Diamondbacks could offer $5 million to a player they pick at pick seven without going above their slot.

The Twins have the largest total allotment with $14,156,800 but the Reds aren’t far behind at $13,658,400. The Cardinals have the smallest allotment ($2,176,000) after they forfeited their first pick to sign free agent Dexter Fowler and then were ordered to send their second-round pick (pick 56) and their supplemental second round pick (pick 75) to the Astros as penalty for former scouting director Chris Correa’s hacking into the Astros’ database. St. Louis’ first pick is not until pick 94.


Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-mlb-draft-slots-bonus-pools/#rJefuZMrLEzskuSW.99



That is an insane amount of money to spend on a prospect. No team has proved more than the Twins how #1 draft choices most assuredly do not pan out to become ML players.

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Minnesota professional sports can't be awful forever, can they?
Post #: 4066
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 2:34:35 PM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 67668
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
Status: online
It's what is in the CBA

Given how poorly minor leaguers are paid in season, they should get as large a bonus as possible.

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Minnesota Sports: Home of Under-Achieving and Disappointment.
Post #: 4067
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 2:53:49 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 56444
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
Number of starts this year where the starter threw a pitch in the 8th inning:

Santana – 1 start
Berrios – 2 starts
everyone else – 0 starts
Post #: 4068
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 5:27:10 PM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 26620
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Number of starts this year where the starter threw a pitch in the 8th inning:

Santana – 1 start
Berrios – 2 starts
everyone else – 0 starts



Does everyone else include Gibby?

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Minnesota professional sports can't be awful forever, can they?
Post #: 4069
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 6:46:33 PM   
djskillz


Posts: 57132
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

It's what is in the CBA

Given how poorly minor leaguers are paid in season, they should get as large a bonus as possible.


This. Draft picks are insanely cheap in MLB compared to any other sport. You WIN by getting these guys young and cheap. And American players actually get screwed in the draft. Ohtani or others can go and get massive FA contracts to start their MLB careers with no limits. The draft forces these guys into pittances in comparison. You'll win a lot more long term investing (cheaper) money in drafting and international players than you will in the FA market. You also are getting these guys under well below-market, cheap control for 6 years. No different than how the new model for the NFL is to get a young, cheap QB (Wilson, Teddy, Mariota, etc.) so you can put your money in the defense. I've done this exercise before, but just for example:

Joe Mauer's first 6 years he was paid $21.5M. He was worth $151.7M by his value to the team based on WAR.
Mike Trout is the greatest baseball player any of us have ever seen. His first 6 years he was worth $356.5M by his value to the team. He was THAT good. He was paid about $64M. And right now he's still maybe the biggest bargain in the sport at $20M this year.

People can bitch all they want about vets contracts and defend billionaire owners all they want, but it works both ways. Maybe some guys end up overpaid later on, but they are WAY underpaid for their first 6 years in the sport. And that doesn't take into account their time in the minors when they're REALLY not making much.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 5/19/2017 6:54:16 PM >


_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 4070
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 6:50:44 PM   
djskillz


Posts: 57132
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
Berrios. So awesome to see. He will have his ups and downs, but kid is fun to watch. The movement on his pitches last night was insane; like he was throwing a wiffle ball. THIS is the guy I saw at each level in the minors. Just needs confidence. He's 22; it comes. It's tough to have patience sometimes, but you have to give these guys time. Look at all these guys blossoming before our eyes. I know I get a rap on here for being "overly optimistic" but THIS is why I've been so excited these last few years; watching all this unreal talent develop. The time is coming, soon, for Buxton to fully blossom. And it's going to take this team to another level.

Law just had a great piece the other day on the top 25 players under 25. It's clear he still is a believer as well and says he's already the best CF in the game defensively. He's not wrong. Also had him well above Sano on the list, which I also agree with. That added value out there is just huge; kind of the Trout/Miggy argument all over again. Always take the premium position/defensive player if he can hit also, and Buxton will. We're seeing glimpses of what his minors was like now, where he dominated.

Buck, Berrios, Sano, Kepler, Polanco, maybe Vargas if you squint...The future is very bright my friends. Get Mejia going, and get Romero up, maybe a FA piece or two, have a good draft, pen arms in Melotakis/Burdi/Jay, assets from a deal of Dozier or Gordon, and we will be ROLLING. Can't wait.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 5/19/2017 7:05:25 PM >


_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 4071
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 7:20:01 PM   
SoMnFan


Posts: 76140
Status: offline
Cmon boys
Need this one
Post #: 4072
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 7:22:28 PM   
djskillz


Posts: 57132
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
Yup. Bigly.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 4073
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 7:24:48 PM   
SoMnFan


Posts: 76140
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

Brilliant Sweens. Freakin' brilliant!

You're kinda cute.
Post #: 4074
RE: Twins Game Day 2017 - 5/19/2017 7:25:30 PM   
SoMnFan


Posts: 76140
Status: offline
Good to see Pete and Dustin contributions today.
Post #: 4075
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