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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/13/2018 4:53:56 PM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Is there a more irrelevant player than Wiggins? Like if he played the entire season and in an alternate universe he was injured in the preseason and out for the year, how much different would the final season records be?


Teague at #58 is a complete and utter joke.

I know everybody here hates Teague. I remember loving him when he played for Atlanta. I didn't personally hate him last year, but he did seem to take a step backward. Teague has been rated in this ballpark for the last several years I believe.
Maybe Towns should be ranked in the top 10 to make up for overrating Teague. Either way IMO we have a quite nice roster capable of winning a lot of games. I'm excited about our team. I will leave the gloom and doom sky is falling to others.


I'm with you. I remember thinking he was an important part of that Atlana resurgence a few years ago. So while I hated losing Rubio, I was initially OK with Teague replacing him.

But the was an extended stretch, maybe two months or more last year where Teague was just plain bad. There's simply no other way to spin it. It seems like at times he just didn't know what his role was. He just looked confused. Then I thought by the end of the year he was finally playing fairly well.

Still #58 is WAY too high on any rating like that.

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Post #: 576
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/13/2018 5:34:03 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20231
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Is there a more irrelevant player than Wiggins? Like if he played the entire season and in an alternate universe he was injured in the preseason and out for the year, how much different would the final season records be?


Teague at #58 is a complete and utter joke.

I know everybody here hates Teague. I remember loving him when he played for Atlanta. I didn't personally hate him last year, but he did seem to take a step backward. Teague has been rated in this ballpark for the last several years I believe.
Maybe Towns should be ranked in the top 10 to make up for overrating Teague. Either way IMO we have a quite nice roster capable of winning a lot of games. I'm excited about our team. I will leave the gloom and doom sky is falling to others.


I'm with you. I remember thinking he was an important part of that Atlana resurgence a few years ago. So while I hated losing Rubio, I was initially OK with Teague replacing him.

But the was an extended stretch, maybe two months or more last year where Teague was just plain bad. There's simply no other way to spin it. It seems like at times he just didn't know what his role was. He just looked confused. Then I thought by the end of the year he was finally playing fairly well.

Still #58 is WAY too high on any rating like that.

Well if he was playing well at the end of the season that's the one we can expect

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Post #: 577
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 8:44:07 AM   
Karl Juhnke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Well if he was playing well at the end of the season that's the one we can expect


Not necessarily. Whatever conditions that existed to cause his funk could still exist. I'm going to need to see it more consistently. Not just a month of decent play. Because before that, Tyus was the better point guard, and it wasn't even close.

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RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 9:51:13 AM   
twinsfan


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While Wiggins (17.7 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 2.0 APG) has been guilty of playing some of the NBA’s emptiest minutes, he sure does play a lot of them. Indeed, the 2014 No. 1 overall pick has logged a league-leading 11,841 minutes and missed just one game over the last four years. Instead of using that tremendous developmental opportunity as a ramp to superstardom, the 23-year-old wing has sputtered. The major advanced stats agree that his max rookie extension and his reputation as a high-flying scorer both far exceed his on-court value, as he ranked outside the top 200 in PER and Win Shares, outside the top 300 in Real Plus-Minus, and outside the top 500 in WARP.

------------------------------------------

So why are YOU ranking him #73? You may want to ask yourself that question if you want your list to have any merit at all.

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Post #: 579
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 9:54:31 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 64157
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

While Wiggins (17.7 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 2.0 APG) has been guilty of playing some of the NBA’s emptiest minutes, he sure does play a lot of them. Indeed, the 2014 No. 1 overall pick has logged a league-leading 11,841 minutes and missed just one game over the last four years. Instead of using that tremendous developmental opportunity as a ramp to superstardom, the 23-year-old wing has sputtered. The major advanced stats agree that his max rookie extension and his reputation as a high-flying scorer both far exceed his on-court value, as he ranked outside the top 200 in PER and Win Shares, outside the top 300 in Real Plus-Minus, and outside the top 500 in WARP.

------------------------------------------

So why are YOU ranking him #73? You may want to ask yourself that question if you want your list to have any merit at all.


That is an excellent point.
Post #: 580
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 10:00:07 AM   
twinsfan


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Oh sorry...#74. I exaggerated.

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Post #: 581
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 10:01:23 AM   
David Levine


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You point stands!
Post #: 582
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 10:03:50 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 64157
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From: Las Vegas
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It cracks me up that they rank Wiggins at #74 and the only positive thing they can say is that he’s durable…
Post #: 583
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 10:05:37 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20231
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

While Wiggins (17.7 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 2.0 APG) has been guilty of playing some of the NBA’s emptiest minutes, he sure does play a lot of them. Indeed, the 2014 No. 1 overall pick has logged a league-leading 11,841 minutes and missed just one game over the last four years. Instead of using that tremendous developmental opportunity as a ramp to superstardom, the 23-year-old wing has sputtered. The major advanced stats agree that his max rookie extension and his reputation as a high-flying scorer both far exceed his on-court value, as he ranked outside the top 200 in PER and Win Shares, outside the top 300 in Real Plus-Minus, and outside the top 500 in WARP.

------------------------------------------

So why are YOU ranking him #73? You may want to ask yourself that question if you want your list to have any merit at all.

That isn't my ranking. It is the unbiased ranking of a national sports writer. We can all think these rankings are too high or too low, but I took them from an unbiased source.

_____________________________

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Post #: 584
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 10:18:40 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 64157
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From: Las Vegas
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Moore & Perez: What the Hell Is Going on in Minnesota?

There is a lot of really good stuff here. Some excerpts:


Matt Moore, Senior NBA Writer for The Action Network: There’s this theory in social psychology called terror management. Effectively, whenever someone’s aware of their own mortality, they express their core values more strongly. That’s what we’re seeing with Tom Thibodeau.

In two seasons under Thibs, the Wolves have ranked 26th and 22nd respectively in defensive rating. There is talk of internal discord within the front office and locker room, and Karl-Anthony Towns still hasn’t signed his extension. I talked about a lot of this stuff with Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic this summer and none of it sounded good. So with that much internal strife and the team’s wildly disappointing slide last season, there’s a lot of tension in the building.

Thibs is turning to his security blanket: Past success. The 2010-11 Bulls were the most successful team of Thibs’ career, and like a lot of coaches in that position, he’s opted to cling to that security blanket — even if that era was seven to eight years ago.

It’s hard to see how he doesn’t realize this is a bad idea. That Derrick Rose, despite a good playoff series against the Rockets, is a shell of himself. That Deng can barely play. That Joakim Noah, should he join the crew, also can’t get on the floor. This is a roster built around guys who just aren’t the players they used to be. For all the talk of wanting to bring in leadership and change the locker-room dynamic, you’re also bringing in a crew of guys who will remember their past success in the current context rather than as an anachronism.

-----------------

We’ll get to the jokes later, but, there is only one explanation here for me, and it’s Thibs’ attempt to squash any locker room trust issues.

The Andrew Wiggins vs. Towns vs. Jimmy Butler vs. Thibodeau vs. Old Bulls regime of players Royal Rumble is the worst-kept secret in the league right now. Thibs is bringing in guys he has been in the trenches with, and what appears to be the only guys he wants to be in the trenches with moving forward. Like, what is going to happen after either this fails or all these old dudes retire? Thibodeau going to The Big 3 with them, too?

-----------------

What does this mean for Towns’ extension?

MM: It continues to be weird that this isn’t done. The money is clear; the Wolves are never going to let him just walk as a free agent. So if Towns is hesitating, it seems that there’s some uncertainty on his part to give the Wolves the leverage of him on a five-year deal if trade talks were to develop.

-----------------

What do you think this locker room is going to be like?

MM: It will smell of money and Bengay, and will operate with a very clear dichotomy of the young dudes and the old guys. Like Chicago in 2016-17 and other teams before it, creating this kind of separation between the old guys and the young dudes rarely works well. It increases division and entrenchment. Not great.

www.actionnetwork.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves-luol-deng-signing-tom-thibodeau-rob-perez-matt-moore
Post #: 585
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 11:09:25 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20231
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Moore & Perez: What the Hell Is Going on in Minnesota?

There is a lot of really good stuff here. Some excerpts:


Matt Moore, Senior NBA Writer for The Action Network: There’s this theory in social psychology called terror management. Effectively, whenever someone’s aware of their own mortality, they express their core values more strongly. That’s what we’re seeing with Tom Thibodeau.

In two seasons under Thibs, the Wolves have ranked 26th and 22nd respectively in defensive rating. There is talk of internal discord within the front office and locker room, and Karl-Anthony Towns still hasn’t signed his extension. I talked about a lot of this stuff with Jon Krawczynski of The Athletic this summer and none of it sounded good. So with that much internal strife and the team’s wildly disappointing slide last season, there’s a lot of tension in the building.

Thibs is turning to his security blanket: Past success. The 2010-11 Bulls were the most successful team of Thibs’ career, and like a lot of coaches in that position, he’s opted to cling to that security blanket — even if that era was seven to eight years ago.

It’s hard to see how he doesn’t realize this is a bad idea. That Derrick Rose, despite a good playoff series against the Rockets, is a shell of himself. That Deng can barely play. That Joakim Noah, should he join the crew, also can’t get on the floor. This is a roster built around guys who just aren’t the players they used to be. For all the talk of wanting to bring in leadership and change the locker-room dynamic, you’re also bringing in a crew of guys who will remember their past success in the current context rather than as an anachronism.

-----------------

We’ll get to the jokes later, but, there is only one explanation here for me, and it’s Thibs’ attempt to squash any locker room trust issues.

The Andrew Wiggins vs. Towns vs. Jimmy Butler vs. Thibodeau vs. Old Bulls regime of players Royal Rumble is the worst-kept secret in the league right now. Thibs is bringing in guys he has been in the trenches with, and what appears to be the only guys he wants to be in the trenches with moving forward. Like, what is going to happen after either this fails or all these old dudes retire? Thibodeau going to The Big 3 with them, too?

-----------------

What does this mean for Towns’ extension?

MM: It continues to be weird that this isn’t done. The money is clear; the Wolves are never going to let him just walk as a free agent. So if Towns is hesitating, it seems that there’s some uncertainty on his part to give the Wolves the leverage of him on a five-year deal if trade talks were to develop.

-----------------

What do you think this locker room is going to be like?

MM: It will smell of money and Bengay, and will operate with a very clear dichotomy of the young dudes and the old guys. Like Chicago in 2016-17 and other teams before it, creating this kind of separation between the old guys and the young dudes rarely works well. It increases division and entrenchment. Not great.

www.actionnetwork.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves-luol-deng-signing-tom-thibodeau-rob-perez-matt-moore

To me that all sounds like the teachers in a Peanuts comic strip. Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah.
Deng and Rose are both solid vet minimum signings.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 9/14/2018 1:44:39 PM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 586
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 1:26:28 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 64157
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
Shams Charania✔@ShamsCharania
Sources: The Knicks and center Joakim Noah are expected to part ways before training camp; team has continued to work trade calls, although waiving and stretching Noah's contract looms as a route.

10:12 AM - Sep 14, 2018
Post #: 587
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 1:48:20 PM   
TJSweens


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Status: offline
You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability...

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Post #: 588
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 1:51:35 PM   
SoMnFan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability...

tick tick tick

The countdown begins.
Post #: 589
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 1:54:57 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability...

tick tick tick

The countdown begins.


Or combining The Matrix with The Blues Brothers ...

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability... We're putting the band back together ...

It's hard to transition from Hugo Weaving to John Belushi, but by God I did it!

_____________________________

Baseball must be a wonderful game to survive the fools who run it. - Harold Kaese
Post #: 590
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 1:58:14 PM   
SoMnFan


Posts: 83843
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability...

tick tick tick

The countdown begins.


Or combining The Matrix with The Blues Brothers ...

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability... We're putting the band back together ...

It's hard to transition from Hugo Weaving to John Belushi, but by God I did it!

add a splash of Backdraft..... mr thibs ...You see that glow flashing in the corner of your eye? That's your career dissipation light. It just went into high gear.
Post #: 591
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 2:02:35 PM   
TJSweens


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Nobody likes a buttinsky

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Post #: 592
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 2:59:29 PM   
twinsfan


Posts: 41677
Joined: 12/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability...

tick tick tick

The countdown begins.


Or combining The Matrix with The Blues Brothers ...

You hear that Mr. Anderson?... That is the sound of inevitability... We're putting the band back together ...

It's hard to transition from Hugo Weaving to John Belushi, but by God I did it!

add a splash of Backdraft..... mr thibs ...You see that glow flashing in the corner of your eye? That's your career dissipation light. It just went into high gear.

Or like Napoleon Dynamite throwing that Vote for Summer pin down the hallway.

_____________________________

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Post #: 593
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 3:17:21 PM   
SoMnFan


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is that from a movie of some sort?
Post #: 594
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 9:54:08 PM   
JT2

 

Posts: 12680
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

While Wiggins (17.7 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 2.0 APG) has been guilty of playing some of the NBA’s emptiest minutes, he sure does play a lot of them. Indeed, the 2014 No. 1 overall pick has logged a league-leading 11,841 minutes and missed just one game over the last four years. Instead of using that tremendous developmental opportunity as a ramp to superstardom, the 23-year-old wing has sputtered. The major advanced stats agree that his max rookie extension and his reputation as a high-flying scorer both far exceed his on-court value, as he ranked outside the top 200 in PER and Win Shares, outside the top 300 in Real Plus-Minus, and outside the top 500 in WARP.

------------------------------------------

So why are YOU ranking him #73? You may want to ask yourself that question if you want your list to have any merit at all.


That is an excellent point.


This is the free pass Wiggins gets from most of the media, and certainly from most Wolves fans.

Seriously, he's not great at anything in terms of playing basketball on a team, and the numbers show that. And, he's even worse than the numbers. Hell, he's not even average at most things.

Salary factored in, he's closer to the bottom 73 than the top.
Post #: 595
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 11:27:06 PM   
JT2

 

Posts: 12680
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Lang

Is there a more irrelevant player than Wiggins? Like if he played the entire season and in an alternate universe he was injured in the preseason and out for the year, how much different would the final season records be?


Teague at #58 is a complete and utter joke.

I know everybody here hates Teague. I remember loving him when he played for Atlanta. I didn't personally hate him last year, but he did seem to take a step backward. Teague has been rated in this ballpark for the last several years I believe.
Maybe Towns should be ranked in the top 10 to make up for overrating Teague. Either way IMO we have a quite nice roster capable of winning a lot of games. I'm excited about our team. I will leave the gloom and doom sky is falling to others.


I'm with you. I remember thinking he was an important part of that Atlana resurgence a few years ago. So while I hated losing Rubio, I was initially OK with Teague replacing him.

But the was an extended stretch, maybe two months or more last year where Teague was just plain bad. There's simply no other way to spin it. It seems like at times he just didn't know what his role was. He just looked confused. Then I thought by the end of the year he was finally playing fairly well.

Still #58 is WAY too high on any rating like that.


Defensively?
Post #: 596
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/14/2018 11:54:57 PM   
kgdabom

 

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Very nice international game for Gorgui.

Gorgui Dieng made 11-of-14 from the field for 28 points, adding seven rebounds, four assists, two steals, and four 3-pointers in 34 minutes against Rwanda on Friday.
That's good for a tidy 94.1 TS%, and more impressively those four 3-pointers double his NBA career-high two makes in a game (five times). Because of most of his PF minutes going away last season, the Wolves severely cut Dieng's minutes from 32.4 per game in 2016-17 to just 16.9 in 2017-18. Now, he could potentially find himself in a battle for backup center minutes with coach Tom Thibodeau's former BFF Joakim Noah likely to hit the market. Despite his fantasy-friendly style in standard leagues, Dieng isn't a strong fantasy target.

_____________________________

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So let it be done."
Post #: 597
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/15/2018 5:33:35 AM   
Matt Lang


Posts: 5212
Joined: 7/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

While Wiggins (17.7 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 2.0 APG) has been guilty of playing some of the NBA’s emptiest minutes, he sure does play a lot of them. Indeed, the 2014 No. 1 overall pick has logged a league-leading 11,841 minutes and missed just one game over the last four years. Instead of using that tremendous developmental opportunity as a ramp to superstardom, the 23-year-old wing has sputtered. The major advanced stats agree that his max rookie extension and his reputation as a high-flying scorer both far exceed his on-court value, as he ranked outside the top 200 in PER and Win Shares, outside the top 300 in Real Plus-Minus, and outside the top 500 in WARP.

------------------------------------------

So why are YOU ranking him #73? You may want to ask yourself that question if you want your list to have any merit at all.


That is an excellent point.


This is the free pass Wiggins gets from most of the media, and certainly from most Wolves fans.

Seriously, he's not great at anything in terms of playing basketball on a team, and the numbers show that. And, he's even worse than the numbers. Hell, he's not even average at most things.

Salary factored in, he's closer to the bottom 73 than the top.


That’s what I mean. We probably win 50 games this season with him and alternate universe we win 48 games without him
Post #: 598
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/15/2018 6:04:24 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 20231
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
Source: Timberwolves center Justin Patton suffers break in right foot
Patton probably done.

More bad luck for the Wolves' 2017 1st round pick
https://www.
twincities.com/2018/09/15/sou
rce-timberwolves-center-justin-patton-suffers-break-in-right-foot/
… via @pioneerpress
12:52 PM - Sep 15, 2018

Source: Timberwolves center Justin Patton suffers break in right foot
Justin Patton suffered another setback this week. The Minnesota Timberwolves center suffered a break in his right foot, a source told the Pioneer Press. Patton, the Timberwolves’ first-round …
twincities.com

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 599
RE: Wolves 2018 offseason - 9/15/2018 9:09:08 PM   
King Torii

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 4/21/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Source: Timberwolves center Justin Patton suffers break in right foot
Patton probably done.

More bad luck for the Wolves' 2017 1st round pick
https://www.
twincities.com/2018/09/15/sou
rce-timberwolves-center-justin-patton-suffers-break-in-right-foot/
… via @pioneerpress
12:52 PM - Sep 15, 2018

Source: Timberwolves center Justin Patton suffers break in right foot
Justin Patton suffered another setback this week. The Minnesota Timberwolves center suffered a break in his right foot, a source told the Pioneer Press. Patton, the Timberwolves’ first-round …
twincities.com


Just when you think they have turned the corner. Something always goes wrong
with this franchise.
Post #: 600
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