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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 10:45:39 AM

Bruce Johnson

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A fresh article here, but very skinny with new information.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/29/18644251/hercules-mataafa-serious-labor-minnesota-vikings-defensive-tackle

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4801

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 10:47:26 AM

Bruce Johnson

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That said, 275 pounds is still very light for DT, and the Geno Atkins comp doesn't mean much before the pads go on.
But it's exciting to see the Vikings try something different. If it pans out, Herc's first step, motor, leverage & slipperiness has the marks of a starting 3T.

Asked pre-draft about where he thought he'd play, Herc said "The most I’m hearing is outside linebacker. A couple of other teams have mentioned defensive end or MIKE linebacker."
But leave it to Coach Patterson to break the mold & unlock that potential at 3-technique.

He was crazy productive in college as this tiny little Jerry bursting around & slipping by 300-pound Toms. But no way can you play DT at 250 lbs in the NFL. He didn't have the bend for edge, so folks thought he might be a LB or something. All that potential gone bc he's a tweener

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 5/29/2019 10:50:26 AM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4802

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 10:52:40 AM

Bruce Johnson

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That Zimmer quote is giving me "He's less raw than we thought" vibes idk idk

(Luke Braun on Twitter)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4803

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 10:56:16 AM

Bruce Johnson

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But like Holton Hill, he was one of the most coveted UDFAs available. He had a 4th-round grade on Arif's Consensus Board, but he dropped as this unique flyweight DT.

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4804

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 10:59:20 AM

kgdabom

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Zimmer is being interviewed. He said that the "surprise of the camp" is Hercules Mata'afa. I guess he's up to 275 pounds and very active. He added that "we'll have to see what happens when they put on pads, of course."

Hercules is an easy guy to root for. Maybe he can be an NFL level player.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4805

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 12:12:23 PM

Bruce Johnson

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New kicking coach.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/29/18644343/nate-kaeding-minnesota-vikings-new-kicking-coach

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4806

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 12:32:30 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76697
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

That said, 275 pounds is still very light for DT, and the Geno Atkins comp doesn't mean much before the pads go on.
But it's exciting to see the Vikings try something different. If it pans out, Herc's first step, motor, leverage & slipperiness has the marks of a starting 3T.

Asked pre-draft about where he thought he'd play, Herc said "The most I’m hearing is outside linebacker. A couple of other teams have mentioned defensive end or MIKE linebacker."
But leave it to Coach Patterson to break the mold & unlock that potential at 3-technique.

He was crazy productive in college as this tiny little Jerry bursting around & slipping by 300-pound Toms. But no way can you play DT at 250 lbs in the NFL. He didn't have the bend for edge, so folks thought he might be a LB or something. All that potential gone bc he's a tweener

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

If he cracks the rotation, my wife will 100% buy his jersey.

Post #: 4807

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 1:46:04 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

That said, 275 pounds is still very light for DT, and the Geno Atkins comp doesn't mean much before the pads go on.
But it's exciting to see the Vikings try something different. If it pans out, Herc's first step, motor, leverage & slipperiness has the marks of a starting 3T.

Asked pre-draft about where he thought he'd play, Herc said "The most I’m hearing is outside linebacker. A couple of other teams have mentioned defensive end or MIKE linebacker."
But leave it to Coach Patterson to break the mold & unlock that potential at 3-technique.

He was crazy productive in college as this tiny little Jerry bursting around & slipping by 300-pound Toms. But no way can you play DT at 250 lbs in the NFL. He didn't have the bend for edge, so folks thought he might be a LB or something. All that potential gone bc he's a tweener

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

If he cracks the rotation, my wife will 100% buy his jersey.

Let me know where you get the best one, my wife being half Samoan will be all over it as well.

Post #: 4808

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 1:53:51 PM

Guest

My buddies kid played for the WSU cougars BBall team so I called him after we drafted Hercules last year.

Hercules was a man amongst boys in college as a 254 pound DT.. at 275 and with the same quickness? He’s getting pretty close to a decent sized gap DT...Remember another guy who came in from Texas A & I that was like 245 when he came in. Be a perfect storm for our defense if this kid hit it big.

Post #: 4809

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 1:57:01 PM

kgdabom

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wrong thread.

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"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 4810

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 4:07:41 PM

Bruce Johnson

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It's one of many mysteries as we approach the new season. How will these shiny new toys do? Football is mysterious!

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4811

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 5:15:20 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

My buddies kid played for the WSU cougars BBall team so I called him after we drafted Hercules last year.

Hercules was a man amongst boys in college as a 254 pound DT.. at 275 and with the same quickness? He’s getting pretty close to a decent sized gap DT...Remember another guy who came in from Texas A & I that was like 245 when he came in. Be a perfect storm for our defense if this kid hit it big.

I played intramural BBall with Niko Noga at UH. Vikings had Al, but Niko was the most successful pro IMO. He was, ummm, effective on the court in his own way lol.

But your post hits it. If Hercules can be that slashing DT - which could be the present/future 3-technique - our own Ed Oliver/Aaron Donald Light, we could wreck havoc.

Post #: 4812

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 5:22:00 PM

Bruce Johnson

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The 3 technique may in it's evolution getting smaller, but quicker. Hercules could be the kind of player that other teams seek to imitate- or he may only be a backup. Part of the mystery of the new season.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4813

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 5:31:19 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The 3 technique may in it's evolution getting smaller, but quicker. Hercules could be the kind of player that other teams seek to imitate- or he may only be a backup. Part of the mystery of the new season.

Bruce, I know you wanted Ed Oliver which I initially said no way but after reading some things his type may be the future. Yeah, you always need the big guys, but DTs have the shortest path to the QB. Pass rushing DTs may be the ticket.

Makes one appreciate Kevin "He's done" Williams. And of course the HoF player Kurt indirectly mentioned. Plus Millard, Page, et al.

Post #: 4814

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 5:36:43 PM

David Levine

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Kid is strong and fast. If he can play with some extra weight, I wouldn't bet against him.

NFL Combine:
40: 4.76
10-Yard Split: 1.64
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.37
3-Cone: 7.24
Vertical: 31.5"
Broad Jump: 108"
Bench: 26 Times

For comparison, Aaron Donald:
40: 4.68
10-Yard Split: 1.59
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone: 7.11
Vertical: 32"
Broad Jump: 116"
Bench: 35 Times

Post #: 4815

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 6:10:46 PM

Bruce Johnson

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I did a little diving here when I saw this Denver Broncos rookie (Lindsay) had the best average yardage before contact in the league. (3.05 yards) Interestingly, he was an undrafted player in his rookie season. He tested fast in the 40 for a running back. (4.39) That is really fast and it seems he did really well with his yards per carry last season, but if you took away his 10+ yardage carries, his average was very low according to this article.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/5/28/18527264/phillip-lindsay-third-most-valuable-bronco

I thought I would compare Alexander Mattison with his combine numbers and I was surprised to see that the numbers were almost exactly the same outside of the 40 times. We know that Mattison can jump and they had the same scores and also, to my surprise, Mattison had nearly the same scores in the 20 yard shuttle and 3 cone drills even though he is a bigger player. Mattison will get more yards after getting hit. That I am sure of. Lindsay weighs in at 190 lbs. to Mattison's 221 lbs.

Then out of curiosity I checked out Dalvin Cook's combine results. Actually, Cook reportedly didn't do so great in the combine and his coach (Jimbo Fisher) advocated for him saying to the league to pay more attention to the film. Anyway, it was interesting to me to see that Mattison did significantly better in the 20 yard dash and the 3 cone drill. Cook did better in the 40- no surprise. Cooks listed weight, by the way is 209 lbs.

Anyway, I do believe the 40 yard dash is overrated, but some of these other numbers might be more indicative of how athletic a player is. I find it interesting to see that his agility scores and jumping are similar to a player 31 lbs lighter. Of course that player was not drafted, (but he is a good Pro) but Cook was a "steal" in the second round. Another one of the reasons Cook may have slipped was that he did fumble at Florida State, but again Mattison was remarkable with his low fumble numbers, especially considering how many times he carried the ball.

I'm not saying that Mattison will be better than Cook. Clearly Cook is more explosive and is a threat to score anywhere on the field, but Mattison may be a load that gets to the line quickly and manages to make more forward progress before getting hit and then does well after getting hit. That would mean a very consistent runner who gets good yardage, but not great, on almost every play. Am I making sense?

Here is Mattison's combine results: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/alexander-mattison?id=32194d41-5459-9622-25bb-238938a4f96b

And Cook's: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dalvin-cook?id=2557991

I didn't mention that Cook did not do as well in the broad jump and the vertical jump.

You see Lindsay's combine numbers in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_Lindsay

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 5/29/2019 6:18:53 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4816

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 6:24:11 PM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Kid is strong and fast. If he can play with some extra weight, I wouldn't bet against him.

NFL Combine:
40: 4.76
10-Yard Split: 1.64
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.37
3-Cone: 7.24
Vertical: 31.5"
Broad Jump: 108"
Bench: 26 Times

For comparison, Aaron Donald:
40: 4.68
10-Yard Split: 1.59
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone: 7.11
Vertical: 32"
Broad Jump: 116"
Bench: 35 Times

Considering his smaller size, I do not see Mata'afa's numbers being that great- and the fact that he did not get drafted kind of bears that out. I am skeptical that he will be able to maintain his quickness as the weight goes up. That's why I see him as more of a pass rushing specialist. I don't think he will hold up too well to the grind of a running game and I suspect opposing offenses would exploit him for that.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4817

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 7:17:08 PM

thebigo

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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Kid is strong and fast. If he can play with some extra weight, I wouldn't bet against him.

NFL Combine:
40: 4.76
10-Yard Split: 1.64
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.37
3-Cone: 7.24
Vertical: 31.5"
Broad Jump: 108"
Bench: 26 Times

For comparison, Aaron Donald:
40: 4.68
10-Yard Split: 1.59
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone: 7.11
Vertical: 32"
Broad Jump: 116"
Bench: 35 Times

Considering his smaller size, I do not see Mata'afa's numbers being that great- and the fact that he did not get drafted kind of bears that out. I am skeptical that he will be able to maintain his quickness as the weight goes up. That's why I see him as more of a pass rushing specialist. I don't think he will hold up too well to the grind of a running game and I suspect opposing offenses would exploit him for that.

I remember Lance Johnstone played for us a few years was 250 lbs soaking wet, he was mostly a pass rusher part time player but played enough to put up a couple 10 sack seasons. He played the run pretty well, the important part was that he played part time and they didn't let him wear down.

Post #: 4818

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 9:20:28 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Kid is strong and fast. If he can play with some extra weight, I wouldn't bet against him.

NFL Combine:
40: 4.76
10-Yard Split: 1.64
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.37
3-Cone: 7.24
Vertical: 31.5"
Broad Jump: 108"
Bench: 26 Times

For comparison, Aaron Donald:
40: 4.68
10-Yard Split: 1.59
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone: 7.11
Vertical: 32"
Broad Jump: 116"
Bench: 35 Times

Considering his smaller size, I do not see Mata'afa's numbers being that great- and the fact that he did not get drafted kind of bears that out. I am skeptical that he will be able to maintain his quickness as the weight goes up. That's why I see him as more of a pass rushing specialist. I don't think he will hold up too well to the grind of a running game and I suspect opposing offenses would exploit him for that.

I remember Lance Johnstone played for us a few years was 250 lbs soaking wet, he was mostly a pass rusher part time player but played enough to put up a couple 10 sack seasons. He played the run pretty well, the important part was that he played part time and they didn't let him wear down.

It says here he didn't miss many games in an eleven year NFL career and that he played linebacker in college. I recall the name, but I don't remember him very well. He was 6'5", which is good for him to be a DE, but Mata'afa is 6'2". That's why he probably will be a DT, but I'm sure the Vikings will experiment and move him around in training camp. Maybe that's the way he will be used on Sundays'. (lining up all over the line)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Johnstone

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 5/29/2019 9:26:38 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4819

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/29/2019 9:53:57 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76697
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Kid is strong and fast. If he can play with some extra weight, I wouldn't bet against him.

NFL Combine:
40: 4.76
10-Yard Split: 1.64
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.37
3-Cone: 7.24
Vertical: 31.5"
Broad Jump: 108"
Bench: 26 Times

For comparison, Aaron Donald:
40: 4.68
10-Yard Split: 1.59
20-Yard Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone: 7.11
Vertical: 32"
Broad Jump: 116"
Bench: 35 Times

Considering his smaller size, I do not see Mata'afa's numbers being that great- and the fact that he did not get drafted kind of bears that out. I am skeptical that he will be able to maintain his quickness as the weight goes up. That's why I see him as more of a pass rushing specialist. I don't think he will hold up too well to the grind of a running game and I suspect opposing offenses would exploit him for that.

I remember Lance Johnstone played for us a few years was 250 lbs soaking wet, he was mostly a pass rusher part time player but played enough to put up a couple 10 sack seasons. He played the run pretty well, the important part was that he played part time and they didn't let him wear down.

It says here he didn't miss many games in an eleven year NFL career and that he played linebacker in college. I recall the name, but I don't remember him very well. He was 6'5", which is good for him to be a DE, but Mata'afa is 6'2". That's why he probably will be a DT, but I'm sure the Vikings will experiment and move him around in training camp. Maybe that's the way he will be used on Sundays'. (lining up all over the line)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Johnstone

Lance Johnson often moved inside on passing downs for us.

Post #: 4820

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2019 1:31:31 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Those were days before talkvikes. I worked every Sunday, but listened to all the games on the radio. I certainly followed the team, but I lacked the information I get today on the internet. That was just before I was online.

It certainly was a different time.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4821

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2019 8:15:11 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Alan Page was something like 250-260 lbs. He might have been even less at the end of his career. I believe the offensive linemen of his day were 30-40 lbs. lighter than today's, though, too. Stephen's strength appears to be that he is a solid run defender. The word I got earlier by way of the defensive line coach was that Holmes was going to be much improved this year.

As a general rule, I do like to see lots of rotations in the defensive line. I think that's the way to keep from wearing down in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. I recall Jared Allen refusing to get off the field, but I thought that was detrimental to the team. I thought he was sacrificing the team for his "calf roping" opportunities. I certainly would like to see Mata'afa in the mix. I just can't see him being a three down lineman. There is a possibility still, that he could be one of the "double A gap" linebackers- I mean, I hope that they experiment and try everything.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4822

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2019 8:27:05 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

For me the biggest part of this report is that Linval Joseph had surgery in the off-season.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/5/30/18644608/news-minnesota-vikings-otas

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4823

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2019 8:29:51 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

https://www.skornorth.com/vikings-2/2019/05/takeaways-from-week-2-of-vikings-otas/

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4824

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/30/2019 8:33:45 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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This article questions the choice of Kaeding.

https://thevikingage.com/2019/05/30/kaeding-minnesota-vikings-kicker-coach/

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 4825