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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 1:50:40 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 4879
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

How do you suppose that Fusco and Compton both ranked 33rd?

Agin, PFF..

Those guys throw darts at bottle caps on the 50 yard line, from the nosebleed seats, on their best days.

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Post #: 2101
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:01:04 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1445
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
Speaking with a buddy who writes for Daily Norseman and he doesnt remember the incident being covered there on how someone posted the memos of Kirks turn overs around the facility... So I guess I will retract that until I find the correct article from mid season to footnote...

My point on that was more on coaching and how the current regime seems to not have the best bead on how to motivate players... It was a dick move who ever did the posting of such memo and only served to rattle a QB who may have issues with being called out... The year before it had differing results on how Case was treated in media with the big balls and lack of respect and confidence from the HC in pressers even... That BS isnt going to work with Cousins.. AND neither did the weirdness that was the stuffed animal slaughter of 2016 in the locker room just before the bye when we were 5-0 complete with fake blood and a sign saying Fat Cats Get Slaughtered, how did that impact the rest of that season?

Coaching ineptitude and team chemistry was huge in how this season unraveled... I just believe the TURTLE is still in the building and next year is potentially more of same...
Post #: 2102
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:21:42 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 779
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I have a feeling of a trade down to get multiple 2nd rounders to fill Oline, TE, and maybe a Barr replacement.


Unless the right guy is there at #18 I would love to see this.

There's so much noise in the evaluation of draft candidates that I'd just take the best guard available at #18. By not taking a guard in the first last year, we didn't end up with any. And it's not clear that Spielman's trade downs have been a net positive.
Post #: 2103
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:22:19 PM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 34954
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

OH did I miss the memo here that said if you are not a rah rah fan boy wearing purple glasses and towing the company line with total optimistic views you aren't welcome to post?

Sowwwry...


This is true.

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Minnesota professional sports can't be awful forever, can they?
Post #: 2104
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:25:55 PM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 34954
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kwheats

Vikings should put cap space, draft picks into skill positions over offensive line
By Matthew Coller | @MatthewColler
January 6, 2019 10:48 am

After Blair Walsh shanked a 27-yard field goal wide left in a frigid TCF Bank Stadium and the Minnesota Vikings’ season came to an end, every Vikings fan would have told you that the key to a strong 2016 season was fixing the offensive line.

The team’s front office agreed. So they went on the prowl for a starting left guard and right tackle and landed Alex Boone on a four-year, $26.8 million deal with $10 million guaranteed and former Bengal Andre Smith for one-year, $3.5 million contract.

At the time of their signings, Boone and Smith were both 29 years old. Boone had graded solidly in 2015 with the 49ers, scoring a 73.7 (out of 100) grade by Pro Football Focus, which is a shade above average. There were warning signs with Smith, but his 62.3 grade would certainly be better than what they had received the previous year from TJ Clemmings.

Both moves worked out disastrously. Boone played one underwhelming season and then was cut the next season in favor of Nick Easton, costing the Vikings $3.4 million in dead money. Smith was hurt after two weeks and placed on Injured Reserve.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 30th in pass blocking in 2016.

Heading into the 2017 season, after a collapse from 5-0 to 8-8, every Viking fan would have told you that fixing the offensive line was the key to a good year.

In the offseason, the Vikings signed veterans Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers and drafted center Pat Elflein. Reiff’s contract is worth $59 million through 2021 and Remmers signed a five-year, $30 million deal

In two years, Reiff has ranked 34th of 56 and 36th of 62 in pass blocking by PFF among tackles. Remmers had a solid year at right tackle in 2017, but still ranked 30th of 56 in pass blocking and was ultimately moved to right guard for the 2018 season in favor of Rashod Hill, Ultimately Remmers graded 41st of 54 guards in pass blocking while being paid the 16th most of any guard in the NFL.

While Elflein showed promise in Year 1, PFF scored him 21st of 30 centers.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 17th in pass blocking in 2017.

Heading into 2018, Vikings fans would have told you all the team needed was to fix the offensive line to give Kirk Cousins a chance to surpass what Case Keenum did the previous year.

They used a second-round pick on Brian O’Neill, who took over the starting job and played admirably, but still finished 52nd of 62 in pass blocking.

Now if you ask Vikings fans what is needed this offseason to take the next step and return to the playoffs, they will tell you that the team has to spend cap space and its first-round pick on offensive linemen.

Quick fix, right?

Recent history should tell us that overspending on the free agent market on aging offensive linemen and drafting them to fill a one-year need is far from a sure thing.

The Vikings have the 18th overall pick this year. From the 2018 draft — one known for being historically good on the offensive line –13 rookies played more than 550 snaps and only three of them rated higher than a 70 on PFF’s scale. Two of those players were top-10 picks, the other was Indy’s Braden Smith. All the rest — from Frank Ragnow to Will Hernandez to James Daniels to Connor Williams — all finished with scores in the ballpark of Vikings guards Tom Compton and Mike Remmers.
There’s a good chance some of those players become Pro Bowlers, but asking rookies to take a huge leap forward and fix an offensive line right away is a big ask and it rarely happens past the middle of the first round.

Here’s the crazy thing about the draft: The odds of getting a quality lineman at 18th or in the middle of the second round aren’t that different. In an article from last offseason, we looked at the possibilities and found this:

The odds of a guard drafted at No. 30 vs. No. 45 aren’t much different. This study by the website Arrowhead Pride found that 70 percent of second-round linemen over the last 10 years became regular starters.

The possibility of a first-round skill position player like Arizona State receiver K’Neal Harry or Iowa tight end Noah Fant being a game-changer are much higher than a first-round guard being anything better than Nick Easton in his rookie season.

The free agent market has three solid offensive guards: Los Angeles’s Roger Saffold (eighth of 54), Ramon Foster (14th) and Mike Person (15th). Saffold is 31, Foster is 33 and Person is 31.

If Justin Pugh’s contract with Arizona is any indicator, they could all demand in the $9 million range. Pugh played only 343 snaps and scored a putrid 51.7 PFF grade.

Here’s how some other free agent guards worked out for their teams:

Guard Contract Result
Andrew Norwell 5-year, $66M Ranked 17th of 54 by PFF
Josh Sitton 2-year, $18M Played 1 game
Josh Kline 4-year, $26M Ranked 36th by PFF
Brandon Fusco 3-year, $12.7M Played 7 games, ranked 33rd by PFF
Zach Fulton 4-year, $28M Ranked 46th by PFF
Patrick Omameh 3-year, $15M Ranked 47th by PFF
Senio Kelemete 3-year, $12M Ranked 41st by PFF
So, in ranking 33rd, Tom Compton outperformed almost every other free agent guard and made $800k.

By now, you’ve probably figured out the point.


Yes, PFF rankings are worthless.


How do you suppose that Fusco and Compton both ranked 33rd?


They couldn't come to a conclusion which one sucked more.

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Post #: 2105
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:28:09 PM   
CPAMAN

 

Posts: 34954
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I have a feeling of a trade down to get multiple 2nd rounders to fill Oline, TE, and maybe a Barr replacement.


Unless the right guy is there at #18 I would love to see this.


RS will find the "right guy" in a Treadwell type player.

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Post #: 2106
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:34:53 PM   
Pager


Posts: 9018
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Speaking with a buddy who writes for Daily Norseman and he doesnt remember the incident being covered there on how someone posted the memos of Kirks turn overs around the facility... So I guess I will retract that until I find the correct article from mid season to footnote...

My point on that was more on coaching and how the current regime seems to not have the best bead on how to motivate players... It was a dick move who ever did the posting of such memo and only served to rattle a QB who may have issues with being called out... The year before it had differing results on how Case was treated in media with the big balls and lack of respect and confidence from the HC in pressers even... That BS isnt going to work with Cousins.. AND neither did the weirdness that was the stuffed animal slaughter of 2016 in the locker room just before the bye when we were 5-0 complete with fake blood and a sign saying Fat Cats Get Slaughtered, how did that impact the rest of that season?

Coaching ineptitude and team chemistry was huge in how this season unraveled... I just believe the TURTLE is still in the building and next year is potentially more of same...



That's because it didn't happen. If it fit had, you would find it with a simple google search and EVERYONE here would remember it.

I gave you all the information you needed to look up the correct event. Cousins did a presser about it. It was a team specific stat not a Cousins specific stat. Right around the bye.

Again context matters. You gave anecdotal data about Cousins and 40 passes. To make it meaningful, post how that compares league-wide, or even top 15 QBs. Doesn't matter who wrote it. You posted it you own it. You cherry pick articles, quotes, stats. It's obvious you have an agenda.

I agree 100% with Todd. Being a one-trick pony gets old. Criticize all you want. Right now, I'd call Cousins a Jeff George/Jay Cutler type signing. I think he needs to work on improv. I'm also confident it was the best choice at the time, and hopeful/believe with an oline improvement and right OC, he can lead us deep into the playoffs.

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Post #: 2107
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:50:50 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 35948
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

OH did I miss the memo here that said if you are not a rah rah fan boy wearing purple glasses and towing the company line with total optimistic views you aren't welcome to post?

Sowwwry...


This is true.


No it isn't. But if you post something here expect it to be challenged if someone doesn't agree with it. That's the point of an internet forum of this type.

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In 2016, Clinton's underlying (and sometimes overlying) message was something like this: Trump is awful and you will never vote for him. And I am the only other person running for president.
Post #: 2108
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 2:54:35 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1445
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Speaking with a buddy who writes for Daily Norseman and he doesnt remember the incident being covered there on how someone posted the memos of Kirks turn overs around the facility... So I guess I will retract that until I find the correct article from mid season to footnote...

My point on that was more on coaching and how the current regime seems to not have the best bead on how to motivate players... It was a dick move who ever did the posting of such memo and only served to rattle a QB who may have issues with being called out... The year before it had differing results on how Case was treated in media with the big balls and lack of respect and confidence from the HC in pressers even... That BS isnt going to work with Cousins.. AND neither did the weirdness that was the stuffed animal slaughter of 2016 in the locker room just before the bye when we were 5-0 complete with fake blood and a sign saying Fat Cats Get Slaughtered, how did that impact the rest of that season?

Coaching ineptitude and team chemistry was huge in how this season unraveled... I just believe the TURTLE is still in the building and next year is potentially more of same...



That's because it didn't happen. If it fit had, you would find it with a simple google search and EVERYONE here would remember it.

I gave you all the information you needed to look up the correct event. Cousins did a presser about it. It was a team specific stat not a Cousins specific stat. Right around the bye.

Again context matters. You gave anecdotal data about Cousins and 40 passes. To make it meaningful, post how that compares league-wide, or even top 15 QBs. Doesn't matter who wrote it. You posted it you own it. You cherry pick articles, quotes, stats. It's obvious you have an agenda.

I agree 100% with Todd. Being a one-trick pony gets old. Criticize all you want. Right now, I'd call Cousins a Jeff George/Jay Cutler type signing. I think he needs to work on improv. I'm also confident it was the best choice at the time, and hopeful/believe with an oline improvement and right OC, he can lead us deep into the playoffs.

I absolutely agree with your comparison of Jeff George and Kirk Cousins...

In a perfect system I do think Cousins could shine, he just has parts of his game that directly relate to the stats he owns. Hell Case took us deep into the playoffs and I dont think he is any better than Nick Foles... just have to be in right system and get hot at right time... Kirk can still make me look like an idiot and I would welcome that because it would mean that the Vikings were in position to win something for the first time... Championships mean everything, I was ready to ride Favre to the promise land even!
Post #: 2109
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:03:16 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 16162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Speaking with a buddy who writes for Daily Norseman and he doesnt remember the incident being covered there on how someone posted the memos of Kirks turn overs around the facility... So I guess I will retract that until I find the correct article from mid season to footnote...

My point on that was more on coaching and how the current regime seems to not have the best bead on how to motivate players... It was a dick move who ever did the posting of such memo and only served to rattle a QB who may have issues with being called out... The year before it had differing results on how Case was treated in media with the big balls and lack of respect and confidence from the HC in pressers even... That BS isnt going to work with Cousins.. AND neither did the weirdness that was the stuffed animal slaughter of 2016 in the locker room just before the bye when we were 5-0 complete with fake blood and a sign saying Fat Cats Get Slaughtered, how did that impact the rest of that season?

Coaching ineptitude and team chemistry was huge in how this season unraveled... I just believe the TURTLE is still in the building and next year is potentially more of same...



That's because it didn't happen. If it fit had, you would find it with a simple google search and EVERYONE here would remember it.

I gave you all the information you needed to look up the correct event. Cousins did a presser about it. It was a team specific stat not a Cousins specific stat. Right around the bye.

Again context matters. You gave anecdotal data about Cousins and 40 passes. To make it meaningful, post how that compares league-wide, or even top 15 QBs. Doesn't matter who wrote it. You posted it you own it. You cherry pick articles, quotes, stats. It's obvious you have an agenda.

I agree 100% with Todd. Being a one-trick pony gets old. Criticize all you want. Right now, I'd call Cousins a Jeff George/Jay Cutler type signing. I think he needs to work on improv. I'm also confident it was the best choice at the time, and hopeful/believe with an oline improvement and right OC, he can lead us deep into the playoffs.

I absolutely agree with your comparison of Jeff George and Kirk Cousins...

In a perfect system I do think Cousins could shine, he just has parts of his game that directly relate to the stats he owns. Hell Case took us deep into the playoffs and I dont think he is any better than Nick Foles... just have to be in right system and get hot at right time... Kirk can still make me look like an idiot and I would welcome that because it would mean that the Vikings were in position to win something for the first time... Championships mean everything, I was ready to ride Favre to the promise land even!


??
Foles is way better than Keenum. To win in a playoff game on the road and outdoors you need a Foles and a Cousins that can throw it deep into the wind.....Keenum can't. Foles is the reigning Super Bowl MVP. Might make the Eagles trade Wentz and also was the Vikings choice for a backup QB before Keenum.

The Eagles don't win it all last year w/o Foles. In the last six playoff games his 1st INT or 2 ints were against the Bears. He was automatic in December and the playoffs this year and last.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/8/2019 3:04:49 PM >


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Post #: 2110
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:04:01 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 14146
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

I am happy with the Colts, Chiefs or Chargers in the AFC.

Eagles - The arrogance of their fans and the fact they've knocked us out too many times.

Rams - I don't like Goff or Suh, tried to overpay for a dreamteam.

Saints - Can't stand them for bountygate.

Cowboys - I am in the minority, but I like the Cowboys, my dad's a fan and I have no qualms with them since Irvin and the like are long gone. Plus as an OSU fan, I can always root for Zeke Elliott.


I'm with you, but I don't think the Cowboys can prevail on the road twice. I don't know who to root for with the other three- like you, probably none of them. With my luck, the only team that I (and you) hope lose in the AFC, the Patriots, make it to the Super Bowl. I especially want the Chargers to do well. That franchise has never won a Super Bowl. (although I have no love for the Los Angeles fans- they've been spoiled all of these years)

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Post #: 2111
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:05:32 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1445
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

OH did I miss the memo here that said if you are not a rah rah fan boy wearing purple glasses and towing the company line with total optimistic views you aren't welcome to post?

Sowwwry...


This is true.


No it isn't. But if you post something here expect it to be challenged if someone doesn't agree with it. That's the point of an internet forum of this type.

Fair enough... I am often wrong but never a mindless follower...

BTW your tag line at bottom is incorrect in attributing quote to Alan Page, he may have used it but its actually Daniel Patrick Moynihan who owns it.
Post #: 2112
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:09:14 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 35948
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

OH did I miss the memo here that said if you are not a rah rah fan boy wearing purple glasses and towing the company line with total optimistic views you aren't welcome to post?

Sowwwry...


This is true.


No it isn't. But if you post something here expect it to be challenged if someone doesn't agree with it. That's the point of an internet forum of this type.

Fair enough... I am often wrong but never a mindless follower...

BTW your tag line at bottom is incorrect in attributing quote to Alan Page, he may have used it but its actually Daniel Patrick Moynihan who owns it.


Thanks

_____________________________

In 2016, Clinton's underlying (and sometimes overlying) message was something like this: Trump is awful and you will never vote for him. And I am the only other person running for president.
Post #: 2113
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:13:17 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 16162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
As mad as people are about the QB situation remember how close we were to getting Nick Foles as a backup instead of Keenum. If that had happened do we sign Cousins?
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/vikings-reportedly-considered-adding-nick-foles-multiple-times-before-2016-season/

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/8/2019 3:14:45 PM >


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Post #: 2114
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:19:14 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 9068
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

Each teams biggest 2019 off-season need.

Minnesota Vikings

Address the offensive line.

The same storyline that haunted the Vikings throughout 2018 is one that remains the top priority this offseason. After surrendering a league-high 227 pressures, Minnesota needs to upgrade the offensive line, particularly its guard spots. It wouldn't be a surprise to see the Vikings completely overhaul the line and move on from the likes of Tom Compton, Mike Remmers (who has no guaranteed money left on his deal), Brett Jones, Danny Isidora and Rashod Hill. Minnesota has several ways it can create the cap space needed to go after a lineman or two in free agency, but it also needs to use a chunk of its draft capital in the higher rounds to begin to fix the problem. -- Courtney Cronin


I've not heard this, but it appears we have OL trouble.


That's odd.

I wasn't even aware we had an Offensive Line...

I was only aware due the holding calls and false starts.

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Post #: 2115
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:28:53 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

Posts: 453
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Speaking with a buddy who writes for Daily Norseman and he doesnt remember the incident being covered there on how someone posted the memos of Kirks turn overs around the facility... So I guess I will retract that until I find the correct article from mid season to footnote...

My point on that was more on coaching and how the current regime seems to not have the best bead on how to motivate players... It was a dick move who ever did the posting of such memo and only served to rattle a QB who may have issues with being called out... The year before it had differing results on how Case was treated in media with the big balls and lack of respect and confidence from the HC in pressers even... That BS isnt going to work with Cousins.. AND neither did the weirdness that was the stuffed animal slaughter of 2016 in the locker room just before the bye when we were 5-0 complete with fake blood and a sign saying Fat Cats Get Slaughtered, how did that impact the rest of that season?

Coaching ineptitude and team chemistry was huge in how this season unraveled... I just believe the TURTLE is still in the building and next year is potentially more of same...



That's because it didn't happen. If it fit had, you would find it with a simple google search and EVERYONE here would remember it.

I gave you all the information you needed to look up the correct event. Cousins did a presser about it. It was a team specific stat not a Cousins specific stat. Right around the bye.

Again context matters. You gave anecdotal data about Cousins and 40 passes. To make it meaningful, post how that compares league-wide, or even top 15 QBs. Doesn't matter who wrote it. You posted it you own it. You cherry pick articles, quotes, stats. It's obvious you have an agenda.

I agree 100% with Todd. Being a one-trick pony gets old. Criticize all you want. Right now, I'd call Cousins a Jeff George/Jay Cutler type signing. I think he needs to work on improv. I'm also confident it was the best choice at the time, and hopeful/believe with an oline improvement and right OC, he can lead us deep into the playoffs.


I agree about the comparison of Cousins to George/Cutler in terms of ability...but not attitude. Kirk seems to want to be a good teammate. When he was coaching Cutler, Adam Gase proved that the right OC can get a QB to elevate his game. Hopefully, whoever the Vikings pick as the OC will be able to get the most out of Cousins.

_____________________________

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Post #: 2116
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:31:55 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 25626
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

OH did I miss the memo here that said if you are not a rah rah fan boy wearing purple glasses and towing the company line with total optimistic views you aren't welcome to post?

Sowwwry...


This is true.


No it isn't. But if you post something here expect it to be challenged if someone doesn't agree with it. That's the point of an internet forum of this type.

Fair enough... I am often wrong but never a mindless follower...

BTW your tag line at bottom is incorrect in attributing quote to Alan Page, he may have used it but its actually Daniel Patrick Moynihan who owns it.


That reminds me of a joke "Some guy said you eat shit sandwiches, I said no way, he doesn't like bread."
Post #: 2117
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:38:50 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 35948
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Speaking with a buddy who writes for Daily Norseman and he doesnt remember the incident being covered there on how someone posted the memos of Kirks turn overs around the facility... So I guess I will retract that until I find the correct article from mid season to footnote...

My point on that was more on coaching and how the current regime seems to not have the best bead on how to motivate players... It was a dick move who ever did the posting of such memo and only served to rattle a QB who may have issues with being called out... The year before it had differing results on how Case was treated in media with the big balls and lack of respect and confidence from the HC in pressers even... That BS isnt going to work with Cousins.. AND neither did the weirdness that was the stuffed animal slaughter of 2016 in the locker room just before the bye when we were 5-0 complete with fake blood and a sign saying Fat Cats Get Slaughtered, how did that impact the rest of that season?

Coaching ineptitude and team chemistry was huge in how this season unraveled... I just believe the TURTLE is still in the building and next year is potentially more of same...



That's because it didn't happen. If it fit had, you would find it with a simple google search and EVERYONE here would remember it.

I gave you all the information you needed to look up the correct event. Cousins did a presser about it. It was a team specific stat not a Cousins specific stat. Right around the bye.

Again context matters. You gave anecdotal data about Cousins and 40 passes. To make it meaningful, post how that compares league-wide, or even top 15 QBs. Doesn't matter who wrote it. You posted it you own it. You cherry pick articles, quotes, stats. It's obvious you have an agenda.

I agree 100% with Todd. Being a one-trick pony gets old. Criticize all you want. Right now, I'd call Cousins a Jeff George/Jay Cutler type signing. I think he needs to work on improv. I'm also confident it was the best choice at the time, and hopeful/believe with an oline improvement and right OC, he can lead us deep into the playoffs.


I agree about the comparison of Cousins to George/Cutler in terms of ability...but not attitude. Kirk seems to want to be a good teammate. When he was coaching Cutler, Adam Gase proved that the right OC can get a QB to elevate his game. Hopefully, whoever the Vikings pick as the OC will be able to get the most out of Cousins.

Would Gase be a good OC?

He's available.

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Post #: 2118
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:39:49 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1445
Joined: 9/10/2017
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Zimmer: We’ll have an offensive coordinator decision by Tuesday

Tick Tock...


anyone? ANYONE? Bueller?
Post #: 2119
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:41:55 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1445
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Speaking with a buddy who writes for Daily Norseman and he doesnt remember the incident being covered there on how someone posted the memos of Kirks turn overs around the facility... So I guess I will retract that until I find the correct article from mid season to footnote...

My point on that was more on coaching and how the current regime seems to not have the best bead on how to motivate players... It was a dick move who ever did the posting of such memo and only served to rattle a QB who may have issues with being called out... The year before it had differing results on how Case was treated in media with the big balls and lack of respect and confidence from the HC in pressers even... That BS isnt going to work with Cousins.. AND neither did the weirdness that was the stuffed animal slaughter of 2016 in the locker room just before the bye when we were 5-0 complete with fake blood and a sign saying Fat Cats Get Slaughtered, how did that impact the rest of that season?

Coaching ineptitude and team chemistry was huge in how this season unraveled... I just believe the TURTLE is still in the building and next year is potentially more of same...



That's because it didn't happen. If it fit had, you would find it with a simple google search and EVERYONE here would remember it.

I gave you all the information you needed to look up the correct event. Cousins did a presser about it. It was a team specific stat not a Cousins specific stat. Right around the bye.

Again context matters. You gave anecdotal data about Cousins and 40 passes. To make it meaningful, post how that compares league-wide, or even top 15 QBs. Doesn't matter who wrote it. You posted it you own it. You cherry pick articles, quotes, stats. It's obvious you have an agenda.

I agree 100% with Todd. Being a one-trick pony gets old. Criticize all you want. Right now, I'd call Cousins a Jeff George/Jay Cutler type signing. I think he needs to work on improv. I'm also confident it was the best choice at the time, and hopeful/believe with an oline improvement and right OC, he can lead us deep into the playoffs.


I agree about the comparison of Cousins to George/Cutler in terms of ability...but not attitude. Kirk seems to want to be a good teammate. When he was coaching Cutler, Adam Gase proved that the right OC can get a QB to elevate his game. Hopefully, whoever the Vikings pick as the OC will be able to get the most out of Cousins.

Would Gase be a good OC?

He's available.

Gase would be my top choice for working with Cousins... said that several times earlier in threads... so take that with a grain of salt, cuz Im often wrong and very opinionated...
Post #: 2120
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:45:53 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 16162
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
Koetter has an offer from Atlanta too. Stepanski prob has to decide between Giants and Vikings if Zimm offered it to him....plus there is Mularkey. Then there is the money part.

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Post #: 2121
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:49:19 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 25626
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kwheats

Vikings should put cap space, draft picks into skill positions over offensive line
By Matthew Coller | @MatthewColler
January 6, 2019 10:48 am

After Blair Walsh shanked a 27-yard field goal wide left in a frigid TCF Bank Stadium and the Minnesota Vikings’ season came to an end, every Vikings fan would have told you that the key to a strong 2016 season was fixing the offensive line.

The team’s front office agreed. So they went on the prowl for a starting left guard and right tackle and landed Alex Boone on a four-year, $26.8 million deal with $10 million guaranteed and former Bengal Andre Smith for one-year, $3.5 million contract.

At the time of their signings, Boone and Smith were both 29 years old. Boone had graded solidly in 2015 with the 49ers, scoring a 73.7 (out of 100) grade by Pro Football Focus, which is a shade above average. There were warning signs with Smith, but his 62.3 grade would certainly be better than what they had received the previous year from TJ Clemmings.

Both moves worked out disastrously. Boone played one underwhelming season and then was cut the next season in favor of Nick Easton, costing the Vikings $3.4 million in dead money. Smith was hurt after two weeks and placed on Injured Reserve.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 30th in pass blocking in 2016.

Heading into the 2017 season, after a collapse from 5-0 to 8-8, every Viking fan would have told you that fixing the offensive line was the key to a good year.

In the offseason, the Vikings signed veterans Riley Reiff and Mike Remmers and drafted center Pat Elflein. Reiff’s contract is worth $59 million through 2021 and Remmers signed a five-year, $30 million deal

In two years, Reiff has ranked 34th of 56 and 36th of 62 in pass blocking by PFF among tackles. Remmers had a solid year at right tackle in 2017, but still ranked 30th of 56 in pass blocking and was ultimately moved to right guard for the 2018 season in favor of Rashod Hill, Ultimately Remmers graded 41st of 54 guards in pass blocking while being paid the 16th most of any guard in the NFL.

While Elflein showed promise in Year 1, PFF scored him 21st of 30 centers.

Overall PFF ranked the Vikings O-line 17th in pass blocking in 2017.

Heading into 2018, Vikings fans would have told you all the team needed was to fix the offensive line to give Kirk Cousins a chance to surpass what Case Keenum did the previous year.

They used a second-round pick on Brian O’Neill, who took over the starting job and played admirably, but still finished 52nd of 62 in pass blocking.

Now if you ask Vikings fans what is needed this offseason to take the next step and return to the playoffs, they will tell you that the team has to spend cap space and its first-round pick on offensive linemen.

Quick fix, right?

Recent history should tell us that overspending on the free agent market on aging offensive linemen and drafting them to fill a one-year need is far from a sure thing.

The Vikings have the 18th overall pick this year. From the 2018 draft — one known for being historically good on the offensive line –13 rookies played more than 550 snaps and only three of them rated higher than a 70 on PFF’s scale. Two of those players were top-10 picks, the other was Indy’s Braden Smith. All the rest — from Frank Ragnow to Will Hernandez to James Daniels to Connor Williams — all finished with scores in the ballpark of Vikings guards Tom Compton and Mike Remmers.
There’s a good chance some of those players become Pro Bowlers, but asking rookies to take a huge leap forward and fix an offensive line right away is a big ask and it rarely happens past the middle of the first round.

Here’s the crazy thing about the draft: The odds of getting a quality lineman at 18th or in the middle of the second round aren’t that different. In an article from last offseason, we looked at the possibilities and found this:

The odds of a guard drafted at No. 30 vs. No. 45 aren’t much different. This study by the website Arrowhead Pride found that 70 percent of second-round linemen over the last 10 years became regular starters.

The possibility of a first-round skill position player like Arizona State receiver K’Neal Harry or Iowa tight end Noah Fant being a game-changer are much higher than a first-round guard being anything better than Nick Easton in his rookie season.

The free agent market has three solid offensive guards: Los Angeles’s Roger Saffold (eighth of 54), Ramon Foster (14th) and Mike Person (15th). Saffold is 31, Foster is 33 and Person is 31.

If Justin Pugh’s contract with Arizona is any indicator, they could all demand in the $9 million range. Pugh played only 343 snaps and scored a putrid 51.7 PFF grade.

Here’s how some other free agent guards worked out for their teams:

Guard Contract Result
Andrew Norwell 5-year, $66M Ranked 17th of 54 by PFF
Josh Sitton 2-year, $18M Played 1 game
Josh Kline 4-year, $26M Ranked 36th by PFF
Brandon Fusco 3-year, $12.7M Played 7 games, ranked 33rd by PFF
Zach Fulton 4-year, $28M Ranked 46th by PFF
Patrick Omameh 3-year, $15M Ranked 47th by PFF
Senio Kelemete 3-year, $12M Ranked 41st by PFF
So, in ranking 33rd, Tom Compton outperformed almost every other free agent guard and made $800k.

By now, you’ve probably figured out the point.


Yes, PFF rankings are worthless.


How do you suppose that Fusco and Compton both ranked 33rd?


My eyes aren't that sharp. Or maybe it's my mind.
Post #: 2122
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:49:37 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1445
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: offline
Report: Kevin Stefanski Having Another Interview With Browns

Its a domino thing right now... HC jobs need to be filled with several organizations to see where the rest fall...

Vikes said they would have an OC in place today, unless that is some unknown non interviewing entity its just not possible...
Post #: 2123
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:51:48 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 66977
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Koetter has an offer from Atlanta too. Stepanski prob has to decide between Giants and Vikings if Zimm offered it to him....plus there is Mularkey. Then there is the money part.


In about 8 hours Stefanski is free to interview for OC jobs with other teams. But he's currently on his way to Cleveland again:

Multiple sources on social media are reporting that Stefanski is on his way back to Cleveland for a second interview with the Browns, and that he is one of two finalists for the team’s head coaching job. The other finalist is Freddie Kitchens, who was promoted to the Browns’ offensive coordinator job during the season following the firing of Hue Jackson.
Post #: 2124
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/8/2019 3:58:36 PM   
bstinger


Posts: 9068
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Zimmer: We’ll have an offensive coordinator decision by Tuesday

Tick Tock...


anyone? ANYONE? Bueller?

Did he say which Tuesday?

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Post #: 2125
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