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RE: General Vikes Talk

 
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 12:17:33 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 12:21:04 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Zim wants to keep it old school. Run the ball and play good defense.

This is an ok strategy provided you have the oline capable of pushing better defenses around. we're a long way or should I say several players (Oline) away from remotely being able to do this.

I think the bad feeling Ricky is getting about Zim tells me this will be his final season here.


It is in response to Bill's post. Zimmer has no problem with the passing game---he doesn't want to pass it 70% of the time except against the worst running defenses (Lions/Cards for example).

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/12/2019 4:12:17 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 1:11:01 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Stefanski talking about Cousins: I think the kid is super talented.


Talking about a 30 year old man and calling him a kid is stupid...when you're 36 yourself?



He also was quoted as "I'll defer to coach Zimmer" when asked about fixing the OLine. Not a good sign when you're the OCord, IMO.



Yeah, geez! I figure as a minimum he'd say the standard we look at all aspects, everybody provides input, blah, blah. Maybe that's what he meant in terms of Zimmer having the final call on position need. Still, a blatant statement.


He isn't going to force something----in order to be hired Zimmer and Spielman probably already told him their plans. I really like Arif's draft....draft the DT first round and grab Oline next two.

Your earlier post said we need to run like the Colt's can.

The model for being able to do that is draft oline early and often not DT.


You are reading too much into Zimmer's response and my post....overdrafting a guard when it is plenty in the next draft would be a mistake. Running the ball down the throats doesn't=overdrafting a guard. Quentin Nelson was a 1st round grade, I read from Arif that OG are plenty of equal grade in the 2nd and 3rd round to any 1st round guard. In addition the 2-3 OT available will be drafted before we draft. So don't get pissed if Oline isn't address in the 1st round.



I don't trust Arif. While it's extremely early, from what I've read, the top tier this year is much much smaller than last year. Which is completely different than what Arif is saying. If we have an opportunity to get a top tier guy and we dont, and the second tier player (or third tier) does not improve the line play, then 2019 season will be much like 2018. And in that case, I would expect Zimmer and Rick are both fired.

I'm with Todd on this. Spielman thought he was smarter than everyone else last year, and it backfired spectacularly.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/12/2019 1:14:22 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 1:19:23 PM   
Pager


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It's a very long read, but I thought pretty interesting. Especially from the Patriots game to the Seattle game. Zimmer calling out his offensive coordinator in offense meetings, in from of players, seems pretty unprofessional.

Seems like a lot of smoke coming from the coaching staff.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/26/minnesota-vikings-2018-season-mike-zimmer-rick-spielman-kirk-cousins

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 2:20:34 PM   
Ricky J


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What's up, Bill?

:)

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 1/12/2019 2:22:12 PM >
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 3:12:54 PM   
bohumm

 

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My current thinking is to acquire two starters at OG or C (Elf plays both) in FA or via trade and draft modified (by need) BPA. We can't count on any rookie to step in at starter level, and we are short two interior OL starters assuming Elf regains form. Everyone else (including Elf) fights it out for the third interior slot.

I debated with Phil numerous times last offseason because I was Chicken Little re: the OL and he stated definitively that the OL was actually better than the shitshow of 2017----we know how that turned out, and he wasn't alone. Any offseason plan that doesn't start with two surefire starters added to the interior OL is delusional, and I wouldn't count on getting a starter at 18, much less pick 50. If there is a clear starter, he may well go before 18, so we need to secure two starters before the draft via trade or FA.

My current hope for the first round is Fant, TE from Iowa: 6'5", 240, quick and fast with good hands. Probably won't last until our pick and issues may come up, but he's my current choice.
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 4:56:06 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

My current thinking is to acquire two starters at OG or C (Elf plays both) in FA or via trade and draft modified (by need) BPA. We can't count on any rookie to step in at starter level, and we are short two interior OL starters assuming Elf regains form. Everyone else (including Elf) fights it out for the third interior slot.

I debated with Phil numerous times last offseason because I was Chicken Little re: the OL and he stated definitively that the OL was actually better than the shitshow of 2017----we know how that turned out, and he wasn't alone. Any offseason plan that doesn't start with two surefire starters added to the interior OL is delusional, and I wouldn't count on getting a starter at 18, much less pick 50. If there is a clear starter, he may well go before 18, so we need to secure two starters before the draft via trade or FA.

My current hope for the first round is Fant, TE from Iowa: 6'5", 240, quick and fast with good hands. Probably won't last until our pick and issues may come up, but he's my current choice.


Agree 1000% percent!

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 5:20:27 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

My current thinking is to acquire two starters at OG or C (Elf plays both) in FA or via trade and draft modified (by need) BPA. We can't count on any rookie to step in at starter level, and we are short two interior OL starters assuming Elf regains form. Everyone else (including Elf) fights it out for the third interior slot.

I debated with Phil numerous times last offseason because I was Chicken Little re: the OL and he stated definitively that the OL was actually better than the shitshow of 2017----we know how that turned out, and he wasn't alone. Any offseason plan that doesn't start with two surefire starters added to the interior OL is delusional, and I wouldn't count on getting a starter at 18, much less pick 50. If there is a clear starter, he may well go before 18, so we need to secure two starters before the draft via trade or FA.

My current hope for the first round is Fant, TE from Iowa: 6'5", 240, quick and fast with good hands. Probably won't last until our pick and issues may come up, but he's my current choice.


Agree 1000% percent!



I agree 1000% with fixing the line.

I think the key to this is the right OL coach. Someone who can evaluate AND develop talent.

Get the right guy in here and the plan might change, imo. Someone who can evaluate Elf and Easton. 1 or both starting material (also considering injury history)? Are they depth? What about Izzy, Collins, Jones? I'm not even listing Compton or Remmers - get them off the team. Wasted cap and roster spots.

If they don't have value, MOVE ON.

Evaluate draft, FA, trade options.

Have a GD plan then execute it. And have contingency plans for injuries.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 6:09:05 PM   
bohumm

 

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Unfortunately, Compton may have been our best interior OL at the end of the year. Penalties were his biggest problem--among others--but Remmers and Elf looked worse to me. Hard to know, of course, without knowing assignments.

Bottom line, though, is they all sucked badly.
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 6:34:24 PM   
kurt bilben


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Unfortunately, Compton may have been our best interior OL at the end of the year. Penalties were his biggest problem--among others--but Remmers and Elf looked worse to me. Hard to know, of course, without knowing assignments.

Bottom line, though, is they all sucked badly.



Wow Bob, It wasn’t hard to notice Compton the last few games. He got trucked early and often in most games.

If he was better then both Elf and Remmers then we are even worse then I thought.

Honestly I’m willing to give Elf a shot again at either guard or Center as you say, and will write off last year to injury.

I get Remmers and Compton out of town on the next bus.

I too said this a week or so ago that we need to largely cover our asses on the OLine before the first name is called in the draft.

We still should get a couple studs in draft as well.

Can’t go into another year putting a freaking butterfly bandaid on an arm amputation like last year failed fix of the OLine.
Post #: 2310
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 7:47:34 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Unfortunately, Compton may have been our best interior OL at the end of the year. Penalties were his biggest problem--among others--but Remmers and Elf looked worse to me. Hard to know, of course, without knowing assignments.

Bottom line, though, is they all sucked badly.



Elflein is a curious case for me. I thought there was notable boost when he came back (maybe more of an indictment of Jones??). Played well against the Eagles and their difficult interior line. Then progressively got worse. Did he wear down?

On the other hand he gave up 34 pressures in 10 games or something like that. On the other end of the spectrum, I think the best center only gave up 4-5. Because players rarely line up over center, 34 is unheard of.

Compton was garbage in Washington, and Chicago. I think he was always the back up option, but Easton forced him to start. Terrible back up play by Spielman. I blame Cousins for Compton, old roomies, good friend. Compton was so bad, I woulda rather seen Izzy all season. At least we'd know what we have now.

But yeah a terrible indictment of our interior guys if we are having a discussion of Compton being the best of them.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 8:11:38 PM   
bohumm

 

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Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 8:35:58 PM   
Todd M

 

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'in the grasp' lmfao!

Never seen anything like that.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 8:40:13 PM   
jbusse

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Unfortunately, Compton may have been our best interior OL at the end of the year. Penalties were his biggest problem--among others--but Remmers and Elf looked worse to me. Hard to know, of course, without knowing assignments.

Bottom line, though, is they all sucked badly.



Elflein is a curious case for me. I thought there was notable boost when he came back (maybe more of an indictment of Jones??). Played well against the Eagles and their difficult interior line. Then progressively got worse. Did he wear down?

On the other hand he gave up 34 pressures in 10 games or something like that. On the other end of the spectrum, I think the best center only gave up 4-5. Because players rarely line up over center, 34 is unheard of.

Compton was garbage in Washington, and Chicago. I think he was always the back up option, but Easton forced him to start. Terrible back up play by Spielman. I blame Cousins for Compton, old roomies, good friend. Compton was so bad, I woulda rather seen Izzy all season. At least we'd know what we have now.

But yeah a terrible indictment of our interior guys if we are having a discussion of Compton being the best of them.

Begs the question, why did they keep lining him up? How awful would he have had to be to be benched? Same question for all three interior lineman. Has anyone on the coaching staff or Spielman even acknowledged that these players were awful? Not that they'd call out their players in public, but maybe bench one every now and then based on performance. It's been the same thing four years running.
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 8:55:26 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.


Maybe John Sullivan is a FA.
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 9:20:48 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.


The sad reality is that we have 2 starting olinemen that we can feel okay about, Reiff and O’Neill. That’s it. Compton and Remmers were awful and have no business starting in the NFL. Which is a pretty damning statement about guys like Isasora and the rest of our backups who must be even worse! Yikes, talk about a bare cupboard.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 9:32:52 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.


I didnt take it as defense of Compton, more of an indictment on the others. Compton brings so little to the table as far as performance, again, I wouldn't waste vet minimum let alone 800+k AND a roster spot on him. Imo if Collins is healthy, he's now played the same positions as Compton, give the spot to him. Couldn't play worse.

I'm in the same boat on Elf. Very excited about him after rookie season. Maybe Flip was part of the problem, didn't seem to use Elf in space, where he excelled last year. That might be because neither Compton nor Remmers could get in space. I think you're right that he is a question mark and center should no longer be the only position of consideration for him. If there are better FA / trade / draft center options out there, don't be afraid to add to the team. Let Elf fight for the center job or a guard position. There is at least a chance he can bounce back or improve. No chance with the other two.

jbusse makes a great point. Any one of those guys should have been benched at some point. I woulda liked to see Jones at Guard, Edison at Center, or Izzy. Is it Zimmer being in love with Veterans or something like that?? I can't fathom any coach watching tape and thinking it was acceptable. AND Zimmer did defend the line after the first Chicago game (I think).

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 9:49:57 PM   
Pager


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McVay has stones.

Pederson has stones.

Reich has stones.

Billichick has stones.

Nagy has stones.

Hope Zimmer grows some stones.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 10:21:00 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

McVay has stones.

Pederson has stones.

Reich has stones.

Billichick has stones.

Nagy has stones.

Hope Zimmer grows some stones.


McVay runs the ball a lot because it works. Zimmer rants and raves about running regardless of it works or not.
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 10:29:28 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

McVay has stones.

Pederson has stones.

Reich has stones.

Billichick has stones.

Nagy has stones.

Hope Zimmer grows some stones.


McVay runs the ball a lot because it works. Zimmer rants and raves about running regardless of it works or not.



Dont get me started. His response to all things offense, run the ball more. Rams have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. We have the worst interior in the NFL, so we run up the middle (a lot).

More I meant, aggressive coaching. Reich got questions for a decision to go for 2 win a game, didn't get it and lost the game. Tennesse coach too. Billichick is very aggressive (going for it on 4th down from his own 30 yard line in a playoff game vs colts). McVay tonight. Successful or not. When has there ever been too agressive of a call by Zimmer that was debated following the game? 1 time I can remember in his tenure we went for it instead of kicking a field goal. We didn't convert (I think we were up) and if I remember right still won the game.

I would love to have Zimemr be aggressive enough to generate some controversy.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/12/2019 10:30:38 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 11:24:44 PM   
Ricky J


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The 15 yarder we got against the Bears for roughing the passer was a love tap compared to the shove Dak took after a pass that landed him on his ass and into the knee of his OL without a call

- the difference in the call ad the non call is a head shaker
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/12/2019 11:26:22 PM   
Ricky J


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

McVay has stones.

Pederson has stones.

Reich has stones.

Billichick has stones.

Nagy has stones.

Hope Zimmer grows some stones.


McVay runs the ball a lot because it works. Zimmer rants and raves about running regardless of it works or not.


I noticed the QBs had a little more time to throw today than Kirk Cousins usually gets. I could be wrong (edit)

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 1/13/2019 8:15:31 AM >
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2019 1:04:46 AM   
David F.


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I don't like the look of things. Priefer jumping ship (good riddance) tells me he is pretty sure the coaches are getting cleaned out at the end of 2019. Then I read the article below as well as the SI article Pager linked a few posts up. It's not looking good.


http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2019/01/tension-still-air-stefanskis-uncomfortable-introduction/

During the 11 minute presser, head coach Mike Zimmer sat in the corner with posture that would have offended Matt Patricia and on multiple occasions indicated to the team’s public relations staff to wrap it up. The Vikings’ head coach was asked at the end about any further updates on the coaching staff and did not respond except to throw a jab at a local columnist who had suggested Mike Mularkey was in contention for the OC job.

That was just about the tone of the entire press conference.

While Stefanski opened with a nod to the team’s owners and his long tenure in Minnesota as reasons to return as the team’s play caller rather than seek other opportunities, on six occasions he either said he would have to “defer” to Zimmer on a question or answered with some iteration of, “as coach said.”

Stefanski, who took over as interim offensive coordinator when the Vikings fired John DeFilippo after a 21-7 loss to the Seattle Seahawks in Week 14, did not reflect his gregarious predecessor at the podium.


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2019 1:45:27 AM   
David F.


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From Pager's link

Smith, the veteran safety, steps forward, looks around the room and tells his teammates they’ve lost some of the “nasty” mentality that once distinguished them. They’ve made the game too complicated. Scheme, practice, strategy—all of that is important, but victory sometimes comes from physical imposition, from taking another man’s will. “We play the best when we play willing to lose,” he says.

Harrison Smith gets it. Zimmer does not.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/13/2019 4:41:41 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

From Pager's link

Smith, the veteran safety, steps forward, looks around the room and tells his teammates they’ve lost some of the “nasty” mentality that once distinguished them. They’ve made the game too complicated. Scheme, practice, strategy—all of that is important, but victory sometimes comes from physical imposition, from taking another man’s will. “We play the best when we play willing to lose,” he says.

Harrison Smith gets it. Zimmer does not.



for sure - 'we're a better team when the coach doesn't ask us to play like pussies'...again, you can just flick a switch and turn on the 'nasty' mentality....

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