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2019 NFL Draft - 1/20/2019 7:03:50 AM   
Ian Joseph


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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/20/2019 2:22:13 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Thank you, Ian. It would be nice if all my wishes came true so easily, but I'll settle for this one with gratitude.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/21/2019 7:41:19 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Walter Football with their selection for the Vikings in the second round. Makes a lot of sense to me. (They selected an OT for us in the first round.)

Minnesota Vikings: Germaine Pratt, LB, N.C. State

"The Vikings have some great defensive players, but they have a major weakness, which is their inability to cover in space. Their linebacking corps needs an injection of talent. "

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 7:19:16 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Walter Football with their selection for the Vikings in the second round. Makes a lot of sense to me. (They selected an OT for us in the first round.)

Minnesota Vikings: Germaine Pratt, LB, N.C. State

"The Vikings have some great defensive players, but they have a major weakness, which is their inability to cover in space. Their linebacking corps needs an injection of talent. "


Wow. That's facial. But not all together wrong either.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 2:42:30 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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I thought Eric Wilson played really well and I would like to see him get more playing time. It looks like to me there are some quality tight ends available whom the Vikings should be tempted to select in the first and second rounds.

Also, I'm not sure how selecting an offensive tackle in the first round will work out. It feels like to me it would be better to draft guards. Right now I don't see guards going in the first round. I think there's a center who might sneak in at the end of the first or beginning of the second. I'm going by vague memory. I'm just now really starting to get into the draft.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 2:45:10 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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This says there are six tight ends who could be selected in the first or second round. I doubt that many will go, but another option is to trade up in the third round and get one of the remaining players.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019TE.php

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 2:59:47 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Here is the page for guards. There seems to be a recurring theme here where Charlie Campbell is saying he wants to see how they do in the Senior Bowl. That's this weekend, if I'm not mistaken.

It is pretty early, of course, because we haven't seen the combines yet. Some of these guards will move up, I predict. We saw what happened last year and how the league is catching onto how vital the offensive line is. It's not just the Vikings that struggled.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019OG.php

It does look like Cody Ford is a blue chipper- perhaps worth trading up for in the first round.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 1/22/2019 3:01:21 PM >


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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 3:11:07 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Here's the page for centers. I was saying before that the Vikings may want some insurance for Elflein. Some of these centers could be used at guard, too, or Elflein could be moved to guard. It seems that we will have options, but I don't see the team using their first rounder this way.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019C.php

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 3:27:08 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Here is the page for guards. There seems to be a recurring theme here where Charlie Campbell is saying he wants to see how they do in the Senior Bowl. That's this weekend, if I'm not mistaken.

It is pretty early, of course, because we haven't seen the combines yet. Some of these guards will move up, I predict. We saw what happened last year and how the league is catching onto how vital the offensive line is. It's not just the Vikings that struggled.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019OG.php

It does look like Cody Ford is a blue chipper- perhaps worth trading up for in the first round.


That seems so foolish to me.

Why would anyone put any significant stock on a game where none of the players have ever played together (especially for a line), are playing in totally foreign schemes and haven't played a game in a month+?

How is that even close to as valuable as years of game film?
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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 3:41:45 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Especially if they come from a small school, I could see that. They haven't had much of an opportunity to play against first rate competition. In some cases they were tackles in college who will play guard in the NFL.

I do believe the scouts do weigh heavily on the Senior Bowl week- more so the practices than the game. They get to work with them and see how they respond to coaching.

For our team, Harrison Smith became a player that the Vikings coveted. I believe our coaches got to work for one of the two teams at the Senior Bowl that year. If I'm mistaken, the Vikings traded up to get Smith in the draft.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 1/22/2019 3:47:14 PM >


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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 3:56:41 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Here is the page for guards. There seems to be a recurring theme here where Charlie Campbell is saying he wants to see how they do in the Senior Bowl. That's this weekend, if I'm not mistaken.

It is pretty early, of course, because we haven't seen the combines yet. Some of these guards will move up, I predict. We saw what happened last year and how the league is catching onto how vital the offensive line is. It's not just the Vikings that struggled.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019OG.php

It does look like Cody Ford is a blue chipper- perhaps worth trading up for in the first round.


That seems so foolish to me.

Why would anyone put any significant stock on a game where none of the players have ever played together (especially for a line), are playing in totally foreign schemes and haven't played a game in a month+?

How is that even close to as valuable as years of game film?


Practices tell them a lot and playing against consistently better competition...

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/22/2019 4:16:12 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Especially if they come from a small school, I could see that. They haven't had much of an opportunity to play against first rate competition. In some cases they were tackles in college who will play guard in the NFL.

I do believe the scouts do weigh heavily on the Senior Bowl week- more so the practices than the game. They get to work with them and see how they respond to coaching.

For our team, Harrison Smith became a player that the Vikings coveted. I believe our coaches got to work for one of the two teams at the Senior Bowl that year. If I'm mistaken, the Vikings traded up to get Smith in the draft.


I think the talking to players part has merit. And its a more casual and less staged situation than an interview.

But I'd be leery of changing my opinions based on practices or anything from the actual game itself. There are guys that are great "practicers", but it doesn't translate to the field, and there are guys that just don't "flash" in practice, but always show up on Sunday (or Saturday for college).

You see so many instances of front offices changing their opinions on players that they have 2, 3 or 4 years of tape on because of combine numbers, bowl/tournament games and other things of such small sample size.

Because of an NCAA tourney game and a few practices against his peers, the Timberwolves decided that Johnny Flynn was a better choice than Steph Curry. Or that Ndudi Ebi was a legit NBA prospect because he kind of held his own against LeBron for 10 minutes in a McDonald's All-American game.

We see similar stories all the time in the NFL. Guys with mediocre college careers suddenly become 1st round picks because they wowed at the combine. And then everyone acts stunned when they bust out.
Post #: 12
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/23/2019 7:47:15 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Senior bowl practices often pit pass rushers against olineman in individual drills.

If I remember correctly, O'Neal didn't do well in these drills and may have pushed him down the draft board.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/23/2019 4:07:58 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Especially if they come from a small school, I could see that. They haven't had much of an opportunity to play against first rate competition. In some cases they were tackles in college who will play guard in the NFL.

I do believe the scouts do weigh heavily on the Senior Bowl week- more so the practices than the game. They get to work with them and see how they respond to coaching.

For our team, Harrison Smith became a player that the Vikings coveted. I believe our coaches got to work for one of the two teams at the Senior Bowl that year. If I'm mistaken, the Vikings traded up to get Smith in the draft.


I think the talking to players part has merit. And its a more casual and less staged situation than an interview.

But I'd be leery of changing my opinions based on practices or anything from the actual game itself. There are guys that are great "practicers", but it doesn't translate to the field, and there are guys that just don't "flash" in practice, but always show up on Sunday (or Saturday for college).

You see so many instances of front offices changing their opinions on players that they have 2, 3 or 4 years of tape on because of combine numbers, bowl/tournament games and other things of such small sample size.

Because of an NCAA tourney game and a few practices against his peers, the Timberwolves decided that Johnny Flynn was a better choice than Steph Curry. Or that Ndudi Ebi was a legit NBA prospect because he kind of held his own against LeBron for 10 minutes in a McDonald's All-American game.

We see similar stories all the time in the NFL. Guys with mediocre college careers suddenly become 1st round picks because they wowed at the combine. And then everyone acts stunned when they bust out.


Your point is well taken and I do believe film still is the most important factor in the grading. Still, when it comes to "tie breakers" or choosing a player out of a pack of choices, the Senior Bowl week is huge, I believe. I believe it is more significant than the combine, but I could be wrong.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/23/2019 4:27:36 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Especially if they come from a small school, I could see that. They haven't had much of an opportunity to play against first rate competition. In some cases they were tackles in college who will play guard in the NFL.

I do believe the scouts do weigh heavily on the Senior Bowl week- more so the practices than the game. They get to work with them and see how they respond to coaching.

For our team, Harrison Smith became a player that the Vikings coveted. I believe our coaches got to work for one of the two teams at the Senior Bowl that year. If I'm mistaken, the Vikings traded up to get Smith in the draft.


I think the talking to players part has merit. And its a more casual and less staged situation than an interview.

But I'd be leery of changing my opinions based on practices or anything from the actual game itself. There are guys that are great "practicers", but it doesn't translate to the field, and there are guys that just don't "flash" in practice, but always show up on Sunday (or Saturday for college).

You see so many instances of front offices changing their opinions on players that they have 2, 3 or 4 years of tape on because of combine numbers, bowl/tournament games and other things of such small sample size.

Because of an NCAA tourney game and a few practices against his peers, the Timberwolves decided that Johnny Flynn was a better choice than Steph Curry. Or that Ndudi Ebi was a legit NBA prospect because he kind of held his own against LeBron for 10 minutes in a McDonald's All-American game.

We see similar stories all the time in the NFL. Guys with mediocre college careers suddenly become 1st round picks because they wowed at the combine. And then everyone acts stunned when they bust out.


Your point is well taken and I do believe film still is the most important factor in the grading. Still, when it comes to "tie breakers" or choosing a player out of a pack of choices, the Senior Bowl week is huge, I believe. I believe it is more significant than the combine, but I could be wrong.


I agree with that. I do think it has value for sure.

But it always floors me when teams decide to ignore years of game data because a kid wowed them with something months after they last played a meaningful game.
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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/23/2019 4:44:53 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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It certainly is not an exact science as evidenced how we get first round duds and steals that come in subsequent rounds. Selecting a quarterback has to be the trickiest of all. What makes it even more complicated is choosing players based on how they fit your schemes. I do believe that kind of thinking can backfire on you, but I would attempt to judge that way.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/23/2019 5:02:51 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Senior bowl practices often pit pass rushers against olineman in individual drills.

If I remember correctly, O'Neal didn't do well in these drills and may have pushed him down the draft board.



He was asked to do one-on-ones at two different positions. One that he had played that last year (LT - think) and the other he hadn't (RT - if I remember right). The position he had played recently, he held his own. The "new" position he did not do well. I think evaluators just looked at his overall score. And it did impact his draft position, for our benefit.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/24/2019 3:10:23 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Senior bowl practices often pit pass rushers against olineman in individual drills.

If I remember correctly, O'Neal didn't do well in these drills and may have pushed him down the draft board.



He was asked to do one-on-ones at two different positions. One that he had played that last year (LT - think) and the other he hadn't (RT - if I remember right). The position he had played recently, he held his own. The "new" position he did not do well. I think evaluators just looked at his overall score. And it did impact his draft position, for our benefit.


Perhaps not that much with the run on offensive linemen he went in the second round. Not too shabby, actually. Before the draft I believe he was slated to go between the 2nd and even 4th rounds, if I'm not mistaken.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/24/2019 9:00:10 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Senior bowl practices often pit pass rushers against olineman in individual drills.

If I remember correctly, O'Neal didn't do well in these drills and may have pushed him down the draft board.



He was asked to do one-on-ones at two different positions. One that he had played that last year (LT - think) and the other he hadn't (RT - if I remember right). The position he had played recently, he held his own. The "new" position he did not do well. I think evaluators just looked at his overall score. And it did impact his draft position, for our benefit.


Perhaps not that much with the run on offensive linemen he went in the second round. Not too shabby, actually. Before the draft I believe he was slated to go between the 2nd and even 4th rounds, if I'm not mistaken.



Perhaps. Hard to say. All it takes is one team to overdraft. Like you, I did see that range, but it might have been influenced by his Senior Bowl performace. If he had performed well, a team might have looked at a better senior bowl performace and his athletic score (which was second only to Kolton Miller for tackles if I remember right) and taken him earlier.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/25/2019 8:05:46 AM   
jbusse

 

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Given the OL needs, one would guess they would only consider such a highly-rated QB if he dropped quite a bit.

https://sportsnaut.com/2019/01/vikings-to-meet-with-missouri-qb-drew-lock/
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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/25/2019 8:18:37 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Given the OL needs, one would guess they would only consider such a highly-rated QB if he dropped quite a bit.

https://sportsnaut.com/2019/01/vikings-to-meet-with-missouri-qb-drew-lock/

Esp with a lame duck GM/HC.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/25/2019 9:47:22 AM   
Rob Viking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Given the OL needs, one would guess they would only consider such a highly-rated QB if he dropped quite a bit.

https://sportsnaut.com/2019/01/vikings-to-meet-with-missouri-qb-drew-lock/


Meh we should wait until the 2020 draft with Tua, Fromm and Herbert all most likely declaring. They could all be top 5 picks. Not to say we can get one but there might be some good QBs dropping lower.
Post #: 22
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/25/2019 5:34:48 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Or some other good players dropping to #18 because of the qb's taken.

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/25/2019 5:37:14 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/1/25/18196836/senior-bowl-practice-notes-2019-nfl-draft-prospects

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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 1/25/2019 5:55:38 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/23/senior-bowl-day-2-practice-notes/

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