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RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/6/2019 9:53:48 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This is a very interesting article and addresses depth of the draft at each position and therefore the strategy of when to take them. From this my take is that we could take an OT in the first round and a OG and a DT in the third (one is a compensatory pick) with a TE sandwiched between in the second. In the fourth round we could take best player available at running back or wide receiver that is still available. I don't believe we will get any more selections until the sixth round, which is a crap shoot round. (We traded our fifth rounder.)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/02/sweet-spots-for-every-position-in-2019-nfl-draft/?/push



it's my understanding that we lost our 3rd round compensatory pick when arizona let bradford go mid season....



We did. I think we get 2 - 6 rounders and a 7th.


We get it for Case Keenum, though. (Or am I wrong?)

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/3/21/17148840/minnesota-vikings-2019-compensatory-draft-pick-update



With Bradford out of the equation cousins now cancels keenum out....

I don't get why Bradford is out of the equation. Yes they cut him, but it was late in the season and he earned most of his contract right? It makes no sense to me if somebody truly understands this please help me out.


I don't pretend to understand it, but this article touches on your question.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/11/3/18059562/arizona-cardinals-release-sam-bradford-minnesota-vikings-lose-high-compensatory-pick

It touches on my question, but doesn't IMO make much sense. They signed him for $20 million and I believe paid the majority of it. They did cut him a little earlier than I thought week 10. Players get paid for the bye week if I understand correctly even if he was only on the team for 8 game weeks so Bradford was with the team for over half the season. Maybe over half the season is the standard for compensatory picks and that is judged by game weeks only. The article said that if they kept Bradford one more week the Vikings would have held on to the 3rd round comp pick. Also by cutting Bradford the Cards gained a 6th round pick. So it looks like teams can manipulate the comp pick process by when they cut players. As a Vikings fan of course I'm biased, but IMO this is skullduggery and it stinks.


LOL

I think it's funny that any Vikings fan would be upset over "skullduggery" after the Steve Hutchinson "poison pill" contract.

That was total BS, but it doesn't change this from being total BS.

_____________________________

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Post #: 101
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/6/2019 9:54:45 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 21978
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This is a very interesting article and addresses depth of the draft at each position and therefore the strategy of when to take them. From this my take is that we could take an OT in the first round and a OG and a DT in the third (one is a compensatory pick) with a TE sandwiched between in the second. In the fourth round we could take best player available at running back or wide receiver that is still available. I don't believe we will get any more selections until the sixth round, which is a crap shoot round. (We traded our fifth rounder.)

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/02/sweet-spots-for-every-position-in-2019-nfl-draft/?/push



it's my understanding that we lost our 3rd round compensatory pick when arizona let bradford go mid season....



We did. I think we get 2 - 6 rounders and a 7th.


We get it for Case Keenum, though. (Or am I wrong?)

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/3/21/17148840/minnesota-vikings-2019-compensatory-draft-pick-update



With Bradford out of the equation cousins now cancels keenum out....

I don't get why Bradford is out of the equation. Yes they cut him, but it was late in the season and he earned most of his contract right? It makes no sense to me if somebody truly understands this please help me out.


I don't pretend to understand it, but this article touches on your question.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/11/3/18059562/arizona-cardinals-release-sam-bradford-minnesota-vikings-lose-high-compensatory-pick

It touches on my question, but doesn't IMO make much sense. They signed him for $20 million and I believe paid the majority of it. They did cut him a little earlier than I thought week 10. Players get paid for the bye week if I understand correctly even if he was only on the team for 8 game weeks so Bradford was with the team for over half the season. Maybe over half the season is the standard for compensatory picks and that is judged by game weeks only. The article said that if they kept Bradford one more week the Vikings would have held on to the 3rd round comp pick. Also by cutting Bradford the Cards gained a 6th round pick. So it looks like teams can manipulate the comp pick process by when they cut players. As a Vikings fan of course I'm biased, but IMO this is skullduggery and it stinks.


It looks like he needed to be on the active roster for at least 10 weeks.

WHY???

_____________________________

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Post #: 102
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/6/2019 9:57:08 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

It seems (finally) there is a consensus in here about acquiring a modern-day TE. Just think if we would have been ahead (or even) of the curve on that one?

Unfortunately, the Minnesota Vikings have yet to learn the importance of a modern-day TE, especially for a team with only two WR's.

Rudolph isn't going to be replaced.


The last "modern-day" TE the Vikings have had who amounted to anything was probably Steve Jordan and that goes back too far for many on here to remember. Some may say Joel Senser was a that type of TE but his career was cut short and he was never a fast TE who could outrun LB and maybe some of the secondary D-Backs. The Vikings have had guys like Jim Kleinsasser, primarily known for his blocking, Kyle Rudolph, known for one yd(s) after-the-catch, Bob Tucker (played with Tommy Kramer and Co.) and before that Stu Voigt. It has not been a position of notoriety for the Vikings over their history. Forgettable, for the most part.

We had two "modern-day" TEs from recent drafts and cut both of them. Pruitt and what's his name.

_____________________________

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Post #: 103
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/7/2019 10:13:13 AM   
beo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

It seems (finally) there is a consensus in here about acquiring a modern-day TE. Just think if we would have been ahead (or even) of the curve on that one?

Unfortunately, the Minnesota Vikings have yet to learn the importance of a modern-day TE, especially for a team with only two WR's.

Rudolph isn't going to be replaced.


The last "modern-day" TE the Vikings have had who amounted to anything was probably Steve Jordan and that goes back too far for many on here to remember. Some may say Joel Senser was a that type of TE but his career was cut short and he was never a fast TE who could outrun LB and maybe some of the secondary D-Backs. The Vikings have had guys like Jim Kleinsasser, primarily known for his blocking, Kyle Rudolph, known for one yd(s) after-the-catch, Bob Tucker (played with Tommy Kramer and Co.) and before that Stu Voigt. It has not been a position of notoriety for the Vikings over their history. Forgettable, for the most part.

We had two "modern-day" TEs from recent drafts and cut both of them. Pruitt and what's his name.


Bucky Hodges?

I had high hopes for both... but neither made the team.
Thought it might be a mistake... but neither has done enough for me to know if they are still in the league or not... so they can't have been too big of loss.
Post #: 104
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/7/2019 1:52:34 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 65901
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

It seems (finally) there is a consensus in here about acquiring a modern-day TE. Just think if we would have been ahead (or even) of the curve on that one?

Unfortunately, the Minnesota Vikings have yet to learn the importance of a modern-day TE, especially for a team with only two WR's.

Rudolph isn't going to be replaced.


The last "modern-day" TE the Vikings have had who amounted to anything was probably Steve Jordan and that goes back too far for many on here to remember. Some may say Joel Senser was a that type of TE but his career was cut short and he was never a fast TE who could outrun LB and maybe some of the secondary D-Backs. The Vikings have had guys like Jim Kleinsasser, primarily known for his blocking, Kyle Rudolph, known for one yd(s) after-the-catch, Bob Tucker (played with Tommy Kramer and Co.) and before that Stu Voigt. It has not been a position of notoriety for the Vikings over their history. Forgettable, for the most part.

We had two "modern-day" TEs from recent drafts and cut both of them. Pruitt and what's his name.


Bucky Hodges?

I had high hopes for both... but neither made the team.
Thought it might be a mistake... but neither has done enough for me to know if they are still in the league or not... so they can't have been too big of loss.


5th and 6th round picks.

That's more taking a flyer than targeting a need.
Post #: 105
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/7/2019 5:03:32 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 21978
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

It seems (finally) there is a consensus in here about acquiring a modern-day TE. Just think if we would have been ahead (or even) of the curve on that one?

Unfortunately, the Minnesota Vikings have yet to learn the importance of a modern-day TE, especially for a team with only two WR's.

Rudolph isn't going to be replaced.


The last "modern-day" TE the Vikings have had who amounted to anything was probably Steve Jordan and that goes back too far for many on here to remember. Some may say Joel Senser was a that type of TE but his career was cut short and he was never a fast TE who could outrun LB and maybe some of the secondary D-Backs. The Vikings have had guys like Jim Kleinsasser, primarily known for his blocking, Kyle Rudolph, known for one yd(s) after-the-catch, Bob Tucker (played with Tommy Kramer and Co.) and before that Stu Voigt. It has not been a position of notoriety for the Vikings over their history. Forgettable, for the most part.

We had two "modern-day" TEs from recent drafts and cut both of them. Pruitt and what's his name.


Bucky Hodges?

I had high hopes for both... but neither made the team.
Thought it might be a mistake... but neither has done enough for me to know if they are still in the league or not... so they can't have been too big of loss.


5th and 6th round picks.

That's more taking a flyer than targeting a need.

Yeah Bucky Hodges. I just don't get how somebody with his size and ability can't make it. Whatever round they were picked in they were "modern-day" TEs.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 106
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/7/2019 5:29:19 PM   
joejitsu

 

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I
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN




quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

It seems (finally) there is a consensus in here about acquiring a modern-day TE. Just think if we would have been ahead (or even) of the curve on that one?

Unfortunately, the Minnesota Vikings have yet to learn the importance of a modern-day TE, especially for a team with only two WR's.

Rudolph isn't going to be replaced.


The last "modern-day" TE the Vikings have had who amounted to anything was probably Steve Jordan and that goes back too far for many on here to remember. Some may say Joel Senser was a that type of TE but his career was cut short and he was never a fast TE who could outrun LB and maybe some of the secondary D-Backs. The Vikings have had guys like Jim Kleinsasser, primarily known for his blocking, Kyle Rudolph, known for one yd(s) after-the-catch, Bob Tucker (played with Tommy Kramer and Co.) and before that Stu Voigt. It has not been a position of notoriety for the Vikings over their history. Forgettable, for the most part.

We had two "modern-day" TEs from recent drafts and cut both of them. Pruitt and what's his name.


Bucky Hodges?

I had high hopes for both... but neither made the team.
Thought it might be a mistake... but neither has done enough for me to know if they are still in the league or not... so they can't have been too big of loss.


5th and 6th round picks.

That's more taking a flyer than targeting a need.

Yeah Bucky Hodges. I just don't get how somebody with his size and ability can't make it. Whatever round they were picked in they were "modern-day" TEs.


I think bucky’s issue was that he didn’t want to work hard. Good hands, quick feet, but a laxy disposition.
Post #: 107
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/8/2019 6:13:43 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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This mock has us taking a 350 lb DT. That doesn't sound like a 3-technique. I just don't see this happening. Maybe some other team will trade up with the Vikings to get him is more likely.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-bengals-shocking-qb-selection-raiders-get-huge-haul-in-first-round/

Here's more on Dexter Lawrence. Looks like he's a clone of Linval Joseph.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000938136/article/scouting-dexter-lawrence-raw-clemson-dt-has-big-potential

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Post #: 108
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/8/2019 6:18:46 PM   
Todd M

 

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We still have guys at all 3 levels. Zim doesn't get a shiny new toy this year. Coach em up coach.

Top 3 picks to offense. 2 OL and a TE/WR

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Post #: 109
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/8/2019 6:25:38 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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This is a more likely possibility in my opinion:

https://thegamehaus.com/greg-little-2019-nfl-draft-profile/2018/12/21/

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Post #: 110
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/8/2019 7:34:52 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This mock has us taking a 350 lb DT. That doesn't sound like a 3-technique. I just don't see this happening. Maybe some other team will trade up with the Vikings to get him is more likely.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-bengals-shocking-qb-selection-raiders-get-huge-haul-in-first-round/

Here's more on Dexter Lawrence. Looks like he's a clone of Linval Joseph.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000938136/article/scouting-dexter-lawrence-raw-clemson-dt-has-big-potential


Not a single OG type taken in the 1st round, sounds like trade down time to me.
Post #: 111
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/9/2019 6:17:08 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This mock has us taking a 350 lb DT. That doesn't sound like a 3-technique. I just don't see this happening. Maybe some other team will trade up with the Vikings to get him is more likely.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-bengals-shocking-qb-selection-raiders-get-huge-haul-in-first-round/

Here's more on Dexter Lawrence. Looks like he's a clone of Linval Joseph.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000938136/article/scouting-dexter-lawrence-raw-clemson-dt-has-big-potential


Not a single OG type taken in the 1st round, sounds like trade down time to me.


There is a center who is now considered to be worthy of a first round selection. I forget his name.

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Post #: 112
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/9/2019 11:13:14 AM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This mock has us taking a 350 lb DT. That doesn't sound like a 3-technique. I just don't see this happening. Maybe some other team will trade up with the Vikings to get him is more likely.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-bengals-shocking-qb-selection-raiders-get-huge-haul-in-first-round/

Here's more on Dexter Lawrence. Looks like he's a clone of Linval Joseph.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000938136/article/scouting-dexter-lawrence-raw-clemson-dt-has-big-potential


Not a single OG type taken in the 1st round, sounds like trade down time to me.


There is a center who is now considered to be worthy of a first round selection. I forget his name.


I saw that, pushes more guys our way if he is picked before us.
Post #: 113
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/9/2019 3:52:41 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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I don't know how the Vikings get him, but I would be really happy if this guy was on our team and moving inside to guard. I think he'll be a stud, there.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/28/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-dalton-risner/?/push

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Post #: 114
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/9/2019 4:01:07 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Another possibility that I haven't considered yet. He seems to be a natural RT and a former TE like O'Neil was who will likewise need a bit of seasoning when he breaks into the NFL.

I could see a line coach telling Zimmer and Spielman that he has the tools and he can be coached to be really solid.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/01/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-david-edwards/

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Post #: 115
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/9/2019 4:03:44 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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I like what I read here except the part where his weakness is zone blocking. Therefore, I will be surprised if our team selects him.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/05/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-chris-lindstrom/

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Post #: 116
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/9/2019 4:09:34 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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This is one to drool over. Unbelievable power and athleticism for a guy his size- and he's big. Sounds like why the Vikings drafted Anthony Barr so I suspect they are all over this prospect. Worth a trade up of a spot or two just to make sure they get him?

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/30/2019-nfl-draft-play-profile-cody-ford/

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Post #: 117
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/9/2019 5:18:21 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This is one to drool over. Unbelievable power and athleticism for a guy his size- and he's big. Sounds like why the Vikings drafted Anthony Barr so I suspect they are all over this prospect. Worth a trade up of a spot or two just to make sure they get him?

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/30/2019-nfl-draft-play-profile-cody-ford/


Played against weak competition in college in the Big 12, a potential caveat.
Post #: 118
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/10/2019 7:00:42 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 13257
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This is one to drool over. Unbelievable power and athleticism for a guy his size- and he's big. Sounds like why the Vikings drafted Anthony Barr so I suspect they are all over this prospect. Worth a trade up of a spot or two just to make sure they get him?

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/30/2019-nfl-draft-play-profile-cody-ford/


Played against weak competition in college in the Big 12, a potential caveat.


It's interesting to me where he says his ceiling may be higher at guard. I will want to see confirmation of his athleticism in the combine, but I'm all in a guy like this with the physical tools. I believe it said that he was a starter for just one year and I bet he has a high upside.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 2/10/2019 2:21:19 PM >


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Post #: 119
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/12/2019 10:29:18 AM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This is one to drool over. Unbelievable power and athleticism for a guy his size- and he's big. Sounds like why the Vikings drafted Anthony Barr so I suspect they are all over this prospect. Worth a trade up of a spot or two just to make sure they get him?

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/30/2019-nfl-draft-play-profile-cody-ford/


Played against weak competition in college in the Big 12, a potential caveat.


It's interesting to me where he says his ceiling may be higher at guard. I will want to see confirmation of his athleticism in the combine, but I'm all in a guy like this with the physical tools. I believe it said that he was a starter for just one year and I bet he has a high upside.

Cody Ford seems like the best of the somewhat realistic possibilities in the draft from everything I have read.

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Post #: 120
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/12/2019 8:01:52 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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According to the Elias Sports Bureau, there are more undrafted players in the NFL right now than there are first- and second-rounders combined. I also saw something about how the Patriots have twice the average number of undrafted players on their roster.


https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/one-staggering-stat-shows-how-important-undrafted-players-are-in-the-nfl-090516

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Post #: 121
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/13/2019 9:52:05 AM   
Tom Sykes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, there are more undrafted players in the NFL right now than there are first- and second-rounders combined. I also saw something about how the Patriots have twice the average number of undrafted players on their roster.


https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/one-staggering-stat-shows-how-important-undrafted-players-are-in-the-nfl-090516

"Undrafted rookies have proved time and time again that they’re almost equally valuable to those taken in the early rounds, and this stat shows just that."

No. It merely shows that all NFL teams farm and develop undrafted players (which are low cost and have unlimited numbers compared to the finite number of players worthy of early round draft choices). It says nothing about how these UFA players compare from a playing time (much less a performance standpoint) to drafted players.

"almost equally valuable" is an outrageous overstatement. Underestimated value, yes.
Post #: 122
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/13/2019 3:10:14 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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There's a lot more of them. I mean each team picks up around a dozen or so undrafted free agents after the draft is over. If any of them are close to a more expensive player in performance, they are given preferential consideration based on the money. I mean, teams do struggle with the cap.

Still, when I see how the Patriots are so eager to keep them compared to other teams, I believe there's something to think about there. This year the Vikings probably have fewer picks, so the undrafted players acquired may be even more significant.

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Post #: 123
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/13/2019 3:23:25 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, there are more undrafted players in the NFL right now than there are first- and second-rounders combined. I also saw something about how the Patriots have twice the average number of undrafted players on their roster.


https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/one-staggering-stat-shows-how-important-undrafted-players-are-in-the-nfl-090516


One could ascertain that NE coaches "up" its players. The Vikings? Not so much.

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Post #: 124
RE: 2019 NFL Draft - 2/13/2019 5:23:45 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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People need to leave NE off the comparo lists because NE is an outlier. Time and again we hear, "Well NE did it so...".

That has simply become a nonsensical statement.
Post #: 125
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