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General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 3:31:56 PM   
Toby Stumbo


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The Vikes are 7-1 half way through the season after sweeping the Packers for the year.

GO VIKES!

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 3:35:14 PM   
El Duderino


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My midseason grades:

QB:  A - the only thing keeping this from A+ are the two key mistakes by Favre (though neither is entirely on him) against Pittsburgh.  Even Jackson drove the length of the field for a TD in his only significant playing time.  And Rosenfels might be the best 3rd QB in the history of the league.
WR:  A- - a very nice blend of talent.  Could use a bit more consistency getting open, but otherwise they are doing everything they need to do.
TE:  B+ - Shiancoe continues to be a weapon in the passing game, though not to the extent we expected out of him.  Kleinie and Dugan are good, but essentially limited to "OL who can go in motion".  I particularly like how smart Dugan plays within his role.
RB:  B+ - Talent-wise, they are an A to A+.  But for whatever reason, they aren't playing as well as we know they can - particularly Taylor, but AD as well.
OL:  B- - A- for pass-blocking, C- for run blocking.  Honestly, I expected them to be worse, particularly in the pass game.  But they're doing a pretty good job of keeping the old guy on his feet, which is a huge part of the team's success.  Now, if they could just apply that performance to the running game ...

DL:  A- - They've given up more than I'd like to see on the ground, but they also have given us the luxury of only sending four in the pass game much of the time.  That's huge.  And it looks like they're getting better as the season progresses.
LB:  B- - We all know the score - we can't cover TEs.  Outside of that, however, they are playing well.  Good against the run, good getting to the QB, and reasonably good assisting the secondary against WRs when necessary.
CB: B+ - Have given up surprisingly few big plays to big name WRs.  Sometimes the lesser known WRs do better than you'd expect, but I would guess that has a lot to do with us saying, "we'll let that guy beat us, but not your stud."
S: F+ - Ugh.  Can't cover safeties.  Out of position routinely in zone coverage.  Forcing few turnovers.  Nonexistant in run support (not that that really matters with this front seven).  What DO they do well?

K: A - Longwell is steady as always.  One blocked kick is his only unsightly stat, but that was on the line, not the kick.
P: C - Just inconsistent.  He's had some brilliant play, but he's had some nasty shanks that have cost the team.  If he can tighten up his consistency, he'll be among the best in the league.
Coverage: B- - Generally solid, but have given up a few big plays.  Not the serious liability that they have been in recent years.
Returns:  A - Harvin earns an A+ for his play, which has been essential to our success.  Punt Returns could be better, but there haven't been the glaring breakdowns that we have seen with some PRs over the past few years.

OC: B - Trending upward.  The team is coming to games prepared, they're making good in-game adjustments, and the play calling has gotten steadily more aggressive.  Not the '98 Vikings or '07 Pats, but not bad at all.  27 or more points in all games but one - not too shabby.
DC: B- - There's too much talent on this D for them to be allowing teams back into games.  Gameplans and preparation seem fine, but in-game adjustments appear non-existent.
HC: A- - Chilly finally has all the pieces he wants, and the results speak for themselves.  The main area that I want to see improvement is in killer instinct.  I think Chilly may have expressed this to Bevell this past week, as is evident from the fact that we went for the TD and didn't settle for the field goal on the last drive.  Now he just needs to get the message across to Frasier.

Head office (Spielman, Brzezinski, Childress):  A - Finally filled the most important hole on the team, shored up special teams, and have set us up for the future with good young talent, good cap position, and without giving up too many draft picks.  The only thing keeping me from giving them an A+ is the safety position.
Owner: B+ - Has opened his wallet and made it clear that he wants to win more than anything else.  Hasn't let the stadium issue be a distraction.  And has stayed out of the spotlight, allowing his team and its play to speak for itself.  Resolve the stadium situation, and bring back the classic uniforms, and you've got yourself a perfect owner.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 3:39:11 PM   
Jeff Allen

 

Posts: 3026
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quote:

ORIGINAL: El Duderino

My midseason grades:

QB:  A - the only thing keeping this from A+ are the two key mistakes by Favre (though neither is entirely on him) against Pittsburgh.  Even Jackson drove the length of the field for a TD in his only significant playing time.  And Rosenfels might be the best 3rd QB in the history of the league.
WR:  A- - a very nice blend of talent.  Could use a bit more consistency getting open, but otherwise they are doing everything they need to do.
TE:  B+ - Shiancoe continues to be a weapon in the passing game, though not to the extent we expected out of him.  Kleinie and Dugan are good, but essentially limited to "OL who can go in motion".  I particularly like how smart Dugan plays within his role.
RB:  B+ - Talent-wise, they are an A to A+.  But for whatever reason, they aren't playing as well as we know they can - particularly Taylor, but AD as well.
OL:  B- - A- for pass-blocking, C- for run blocking.  Honestly, I expected them to be worse, particularly in the pass game.  But they're doing a pretty good job of keeping the old guy on his feet, which is a huge part of the team's success.  Now, if they could just apply that performance to the running game ...

DL:  A- - They've given up more than I'd like to see on the ground, but they also have given us the luxury of only sending four in the pass game much of the time.  That's huge.  And it looks like they're getting better as the season progresses.
LB:  B- - We all know the score - we can't cover TEs.  Outside of that, however, they are playing well.  Good against the run, good getting to the QB, and reasonably good assisting the secondary against WRs when necessary.
CB: B+ - Have given up surprisingly few big plays to big name WRs.  Sometimes the lesser known WRs do better than you'd expect, but I would guess that has a lot to do with us saying, "we'll let that guy beat us, but not your stud."
S: F+ - Ugh.  Can't cover safeties.  Out of position routinely in zone coverage.  Forcing few turnovers.  Nonexistant in run support (not that that really matters with this front seven).  What DO they do well?

K: A - Longwell is steady as always.  One blocked kick is his only unsightly stat, but that was on the line, not the kick.
P: C - Just inconsistent.  He's had some brilliant play, but he's had some nasty shanks that have cost the team.  If he can tighten up his consistency, he'll be among the best in the league.
Coverage: B- - Generally solid, but have given up a few big plays.  Not the serious liability that they have been in recent years.
Returns:  A - Harvin earns an A+ for his play, which has been essential to our success.  Punt Returns could be better, but there haven't been the glaring breakdowns that we have seen with some PRs over the past few years.

OC: B - Trending upward.  The team is coming to games prepared, they're making good in-game adjustments, and the play calling has gotten steadily more aggressive.  Not the '98 Vikings or '07 Pats, but not bad at all.  27 or more points in all games but one - not too shabby.
DC: B- - There's too much talent on this D for them to be allowing teams back into games.  Gameplans and preparation seem fine, but in-game adjustments appear non-existent.
HC: A- - Chilly finally has all the pieces he wants, and the results speak for themselves.  The main area that I want to see improvement is in killer instinct.  I think Chilly may have expressed this to Bevell this past week, as is evident from the fact that we went for the TD and didn't settle for the field goal on the last drive.  Now he just needs to get the message across to Frasier.

Head office (Spielman, Brzezinski, Childress):  A - Finally filled the most important hole on the team, shored up special teams, and have set us up for the future with good young talent, good cap position, and without giving up too many draft picks.  The only thing keeping me from giving them an A+ is the safety position.
Owner: B+ - Has opened his wallet and made it clear that he wants to win more than anything else.  Hasn't let the stadium issue be a distraction.  And has stayed out of the spotlight, allowing his team and its play to speak for itself.  Resolve the stadium situation, and bring back the classic uniforms, and you've got yourself a perfect owner.


Job well done!
Post #: 3
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 3:41:33 PM   
Lars


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NO beef with any of those grades, althogu hI think Kluwe is a bit low.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 3:47:10 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

NO beef with any of those grades, althogu hI think Kluwe is a bit low.


I agree. 

Kluwe has had a couple of shanks but he's been instructed to punt high instead of far so that the coverage teams have time to get down the field.  And he's not that bad at pinning teams inisde the 10.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 4:26:17 PM   
El Duderino


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Maybe C is a bit low.  But he's a punter.  He'll survive.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 4:36:13 PM   
David Jerde


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quote:

ORIGINAL: El Duderino

Maybe C is a bit low.  But he's a punter.  He'll survive.


Don't know, that was a pretty hard hit on a kicking specialist. Maybe there should have been a flag?
Post #: 7
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 4:56:05 PM   
David F.

 

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8st!
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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 4:58:18 PM   
John Childress

 

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GREAT WORK ON THE GRADES!

quote:

In our version of the Tampa 2 (really, the Tampa 2 in general), there's no distinction between FS and SS.  They have identical roles, they just cover different halves of the field. 


The roles may be identical but the play is not.  Since most teams are right handed the person lining on the defensive left side will cover the TE a lot more.

quote:

Rice is not as slow as some people say.  I mean the guy did run a 4.50 at his pro-day.


That is slow when you consider it was a perfectly prepped opportunity for him.  On a real track he is a 4.6 guy and that is very slow in 2009
Forget the 40 times.  Watch how often he is run down from behind.  Even a LB caught him once.
But he is still very good.

quote:

I didn't like the call to go for it there.  I would have kicked the FG.


Love the call - not the play selection.  Run behind Mount and Hutch in that spot

quote:

Jeff Dugan getting a TD.  And if some posters in here had their way…we never would have thrown to the guy.


Yeah, no way could Harvin or Rice made that catch.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 5:05:35 PM   
hrerikl

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott


I really hope AW is back after the bye.  Paymah and Sapp are backups…not starters.  Our defense is worlds better with him in it.
 


If he could benefit from an extra week, I say take it against Detroit.
Post #: 10
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 5:38:08 PM   
Tim Cady


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Yes, I hope we give TJack plenty of snaps during next week getting ready for Detroit. I would like to see us get up big early and then use the second half as an opportunity to give Brett a rest. I agree on Winfield taking more time during the Detroit game if needed.

Detroit is so bad that this shouldn't be even a trap game, at home, coming off a bye. Beat them down fast and get the depth some reps.
Post #: 11
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 5:47:23 PM   
Jeff Allen

 

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Brett doesn't need to rest...he can go in and hand the ball off to Peterson. No big deal. It's not going to somehow stop a late-season collapse because none is coming. There is no magic number of games that Favre can effectively play before there is a collapse. One poster here even suggested we should have benched Favre the first five or six games so he doesn't have a late-season collapse.

Stat guys throw all these numbers out there and interpret them as facts because they are numbers. Brett will be just fine...no need to worry about him.
Post #: 12
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 5:47:57 PM   
Jeff Allen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: El Duderino

Maybe C is a bit low.  But he's a punter.  He'll survive.


What about Loeffler? No grade for the long snapper?
Post #: 13
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 5:57:47 PM   
Mark Rapley

 

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http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091102/GPG0101/911020513/1978/13-arrested--43-ejected-at-Sunday-s-game

13 arrested and 43 ejected from Lambeau yesterday.  Emotions were running high when Favre was destroying their D, I guess.
Post #: 14
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 6:03:40 PM   
El Duderino


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Duderino

Maybe C is a bit low.  But he's a punter.  He'll survive.


What about Loeffler? No grade for the long snapper?


I guess I subconsciously graded him the same way I expect him to play - if you don't notice him, he must be doing his job.  Give him an A!

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Kluwe - 11/2/2009 6:31:22 PM   
Thomas O. Eliason


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19-yarder, in an important game.

C is right on the money.

If he does that in the playoffs, I'll drive to MN, find the SOB and beat him about the head with broken bottles.
!

< Message edited by Thomas O. Eliason -- 11/2/2009 6:33:40 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 6:39:04 PM   
Tim Cady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Rapley

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091102/GPG0101/911020513/1978/13-arrested--43-ejected-at-Sunday-s-game

13 arrested and 43 ejected from Lambeau yesterday.  Emotions were running high when Favre was destroying their D, I guess.

That really belongs on the Packer thread, but Craig is probably feeling low enough and he is a good guy.
Post #: 17
RE: Kluwe - 11/2/2009 6:43:43 PM   
MarkSP18


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I think the runs to the right side are useful for a couple of reasons.

First it takes the attention always given to the left side when we run as the whele league knows that we run the best to the left.

Second it may give them somewhat of a rest but not so much with this point.

I just think that Loadholt is a mauler and is best when run blocking.

I am not tooting my horn but I was all over Loadholt before the draft as a right tackle.  Just so you know, I was all over Dwayne Jarrett instead of Rice.  So now you know what kind of scout I am but the Jarrett pick may have been a  "homer" pick.

But if you watch the GB or any of our games again just watch how many times Loadholt is chasing guys at the end of plays.

Yesterday he was pushing Kampman around and there was nothing that Kampman could do.  There were at least two times I saw after the tackle where Loadholt is getting in a last shove on Kampamn and Kampnab does nothing.

There was a reason in training camp that Edwards was frustarted and I recall one interview I saw or read where Edwards said that once Loadholt gets his hands on you, you are not getting away!

IMHO we are running to the right because Loadholt is the BEAST of our offensive line and I dare say may be the best one by the end of the year!

OK.  Maybe I getting too jacked up.  I need to step back from the keyboard and reconsider that last comment.
Post #: 18
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 6:44:27 PM   
jim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Rapley

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091102/GPG0101/911020513/1978/13-arrested--43-ejected-at-Sunday-s-game

13 arrested and 43 ejected from Lambeau yesterday.  Emotions were running high when Favre was destroying their D, I guess.


How many were starters?

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 6:46:50 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Favre for team MVP at the halfway mark?

I'd like to see the blocking get untracked for Peterson. 
Post #: 20
RE: Kluwe - 11/2/2009 6:48:36 PM   
John Childress

 

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Going to the right to reduce tendencies is fine - but not on 4th down.  There you go with your best which is either Peterson left or a quick pass to Rice.

USC

I think years of playing with more talent than just about every team you face makes their players a little soft and not hungry enough for the NFL.  It is also possible that some of their players are drafted too high because they are from a glamour program.  Florida was like that for years with crappy QBs drafted too high.  A guy like Booty would not have ever been drafted but for playing at USC.

FAVRE

No one can say for sure.  He clearly DID collapse in 3 of the last 4 years.  Perhaps playing indoors will help.

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Post #: 21
RE: Kluwe - 11/2/2009 6:56:09 PM   
Ian Joseph


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Guess I should stop posting on an archived thread.

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Post #: 22
RE: Kluwe - 11/2/2009 6:56:47 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkSP18

I think the runs to the right side are useful for a couple of reasons.

First it takes the attention always given to the left side when we run as the whele league knows that we run the best to the left.

Second it may give them somewhat of a rest but not so much with this point.



I agree. But 4th down may not be the best time to do it.
Post #: 23
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 6:58:46 PM   
Lynn G.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Rapley

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091102/GPG0101/911020513/1978/13-arrested--43-ejected-at-Sunday-s-game

13 arrested and 43 ejected from Lambeau yesterday.  Emotions were running high when Favre was destroying their D, I guess.


I was curious to know how many were Packer fans and how many were Viking fans. The article didn't say that with regard to yesterday's game, but there was this reference to sum up some previous years:

quote:

Forty-two of the 70 people arrested during Vikings games since 2004 were from Wisconsin. About 20 percent — 15 fans — had a Minnesota address.



Phew - at least our guys are only 20% of the problem.
Post #: 24
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/2/2009 7:01:09 PM   
Thomas O. Eliason


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Favre for team MVP at the halfway mark?

I'd like to see the blocking get untracked for Peterson. 


Either him or Jared Allen.  I could see the argument for either.

Peterson is doing this to himself.  He needs to focus on finding the quick crease and get his butt in there, especially early in the game.  Defenses have figured out a tendency (on him) to always bounce outside.  Until he breaks that tendency out of his own game, he'll be stuck in this funk.

Mind you, I have confidence that he will figure that out, but until then we're going to see a lot of 3rd & longs early in games.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

And a BUMP:

quote:

Going to the right to reduce tendencies is fine - but not on 4th down.  There you go with your best which is either Peterson left or a quick pass to Rice.


< Message edited by Thomas O. Eliason -- 11/2/2009 7:04:07 PM >


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