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RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 8:11:01 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Maybe LA fans have too many distractions to know about old age.

Maybe they think they can do some plastic surgery on Kobe and Co. to keep them young forever.

Maybe the local press lies to the fans. Yes, that's the most plausible reason LA fans are clueless about the ages.

Oh, yeah... someone needs to tell them that Howard had back surgery. That will be difficult to do because George Orwell and Putin run the media in LA.

I think Nash won't play the full season, or he'll play the full season but in a limited role as he lies on the floor during games ala Larry Bird.
Post #: 176
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 8:46:01 AM   
Prescott


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quote:

I could see them winning 50 games or more IF things fall into place. I don't see a losing season barring catastrophe.


I see them winning 50 games if Rubio starts the season and every pickup works out perfectly. I could see .500 if Rubio comes back around Christmas (or later) and some of the pickups don't live up to their top potential.

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Post #: 177
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 10:25:33 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Maybe LA fans have too many distractions to know about old age.

Maybe they think they can do some plastic surgery on Kobe and Co. to keep them young forever.

Maybe the local press lies to the fans. Yes, that's the most plausible reason LA fans are clueless about the ages.

Oh, yeah... someone needs to tell them that Howard had back surgery. That will be difficult to do because George Orwell and Putin run the media in LA.

I think Nash won't play the full season, or he'll play the full season but in a limited role as he lies on the floor during games ala Larry Bird. Quite ironic you say that....it happened two years ago with his bad back.


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Post #: 178
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 10:48:29 AM   
Brad Norman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prescott

quote:

I could see them winning 50 games or more IF things fall into place. I don't see a losing season barring catastrophe.


I see them winning 50 games if Rubio starts the season and every pickup works out perfectly. I could see .500 if Rubio comes back around Christmas (or later) and some of the pickups don't live up to their top potential.


After starting 4-8 last season, we put up a record of 17-11 until Rubio got injured. We went 8-3 in Rubio's last 11 games (not counting the game in which he was injured). Six of those games were against playoff teams, so it's not like we had a cupcake schedule during that stretch. We did all that with Rubio, Love, Pekovic, and not much else.

If Rubio starts the season and every pickup works out perfectly, you can forget about winning 50 games. 60+ wins is much more likely. The only way we're going to finish at .500 or below is if a lot of things go wrong--a lot more things than Rubio coming back around Christmas and some of the pickups not living up to their top potential. I could easily see that scenario resulting in 50 wins, actually.
Post #: 179
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 12:34:44 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Steve nash has spondyleosis....cant actually sit in a chair when not playing. Funny u reference larry bird.

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Post #: 180
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 1:04:06 PM   
Ian Joseph


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Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
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Again good stuff here. I know I am talking with a smaller market populous here, but here is the difference between the Wolves and Lakers (and keep in mind I will never be confused with a die hard, to-my-grave Lakers fan).

* Wolves fans look forward to 50 wins. Lakers fans expect it every single season.

* Wolves fans dream of competing for and reaching the NBA Finals. Lakers fans expect it.. every season.

* The Wolves are a team searching for their championship culture, putting together that right mix that will have them competing for 5-10 years and often destroy the model long before that culture is reached.

* The Lakers are a team that established that championship culture in the 1960s and 70s and always put themselves in a position to continue it. Winning 16 championships isnt on accident.

Here is something else. Wolves fans have only had and seen one true superstar on their team, although its probable they have another in the making (if he stays long term). IMO, Wolves fans think they know greatness when they see it, but really dont know what it looks like. Greatness isnt going out and being adored by the home crowd and getting a max contract. Its plenty of guys in the NBA that have done that. Greatness is elevating your team above all others, sometimes by only your sheer will to compete and win, go out and win a championship (or five). Greatness is making those around you better, making them hungrier and making them believe.

The Wolves fans have never seen that. Ever. The Lakers fans (and most anyone else that watches basketball) have seen it at least seven times with that franchise.

Its easy for Wolves fans to think that a player best known for getting rebounds is a true superstar and is better than a player the consensus has deemed one for over a decade. But, thats becuz they view that with bias. They can throw up stats and game footage all they want, but stats only tell the story folks actually want others to hear. To prove my point about stats, here is one:

Championships
Kobe Bryant - five. Kevin Love - zero.

Lets go even deeper.

Championships without Shaquille O' Neal
Kobe Bryant - two. Kevin Love - zero.

Now, what does either stat really mean? Honestly, depending on the debate, it can mean whatever it is someone wants to it mean. To my point, stats on their own are meaningless. Period.

The proof is in the pudding with regards to Kevin Love versus Kobe Bryant. Wolves fans want Kevin Love to be a true superstar and want Kevin Love to be that guy that leads their team to prominence. Wolves fans want so bad for an NBA championship to eliminate the shadows of their original team skipping town, going somewhere else that isnt indicative of their nickname and later become the flagship organization of the NBA. Most of all, Wolves fans just want to be associated with the best.

Lakers fans dont have to go through all of that becuz theyve seen the best - at least four times. They dont have to make up arguments about this guy being better than that guy, except when it comes to all-time bests.

Kevin is Love not better than Kobe Bryant. Not today, not yesterday, probably not ever. It doesnt matter about right now, today. If thats the case, Kevin Love is better than Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson. And nobody anywhere near that state would even dare utter those words unless they were looking for hysterical laughter.

Kevin Love is good and one day, he could be great. But, he's not great yet and there is no point comparing him to someone else that has been great for a very long time.

< Message edited by Ian Joseph -- 8/18/2012 1:08:35 PM >


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Post #: 181
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 1:46:38 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I would willing to bet Howard's scoring and rebounding go down.....which would be about bynum's 17.* and 11.* averages last year plus he isnt as big.

As an outsider looking in....the biggest problems with Bynum were attitude and injuries.....can u honestly say those are fixed with Howard?

With Howard being able to rebound all of Kobe's bricks those averages should go up .

Howard's attitude on the court has never been much of a problem as far as I know. The difference between Howard and Bynum are that Howard is easily more athletic and much more of a warrior. Injuries have never been a concern for Howard in the past but I know he is dealing with recovery from surgery right now. I expect Howard to recover from his surgery and be at his very best for most of this coming season. Bynum has his moments when he is very good, I just don't see him as being an elite player. Howard is arguably the second best player in the league.



Good analysis.

Cool I tell it like it is. You like it when I do that about how tough The Lakers should be this year. You don't like it when I do it comparing Kobe and Love.
Post #: 182
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 1:53:47 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Again good stuff here. I know I am talking with a smaller market populous here, but here is the difference between the Wolves and Lakers (and keep in mind I will never be confused with a die hard, to-my-grave Lakers fan).

* Wolves fans look forward to 50 wins. Lakers fans expect it every single season.

* Wolves fans dream of competing for and reaching the NBA Finals. Lakers fans expect it.. every season.

* The Wolves are a team searching for their championship culture, putting together that right mix that will have them competing for 5-10 years and often destroy the model long before that culture is reached.

* The Lakers are a team that established that championship culture in the 1960s and 70s and always put themselves in a position to continue it. Winning 16 championships isnt on accident.

Here is something else. Wolves fans have only had and seen one true superstar on their team, although its probable they have another in the making (if he stays long term). IMO, Wolves fans think they know greatness when they see it, but really dont know what it looks like. Greatness isnt going out and being adored by the home crowd and getting a max contract. Its plenty of guys in the NBA that have done that. Greatness is elevating your team above all others, sometimes by only your sheer will to compete and win, go out and win a championship (or five). Greatness is making those around you better, making them hungrier and making them believe.

The Wolves fans have never seen that. Ever. The Lakers fans (and most anyone else that watches basketball) have seen it at least seven times with that franchise.

Its easy for Wolves fans to think that a player best known for getting rebounds is a true superstar and is better than a player the consensus has deemed one for over a decade. But, thats becuz they view that with bias. They can throw up stats and game footage all they want, but stats only tell the story folks actually want others to hear. To prove my point about stats, here is one:

Championships
Kobe Bryant - five. Kevin Love - zero.

Lets go even deeper.

Championships without Shaquille O' Neal
Kobe Bryant - two. Kevin Love - zero.

Now, what does either stat really mean? Honestly, depending on the debate, it can mean whatever it is someone wants to it mean. To my point, stats on their own are meaningless. Period.

The proof is in the pudding with regards to Kevin Love versus Kobe Bryant. Wolves fans want Kevin Love to be a true superstar and want Kevin Love to be that guy that leads their team to prominence. Wolves fans want so bad for an NBA championship to eliminate the shadows of their original team skipping town, going somewhere else that isnt indicative of their nickname and later become the flagship organization of the NBA. Most of all, Wolves fans just want to be associated with the best.

Lakers fans dont have to go through all of that becuz theyve seen the best - at least four times. They dont have to make up arguments about this guy being better than that guy, except when it comes to all-time bests.

Kevin is Love not better than Kobe Bryant. Not today, not yesterday, probably not ever. It doesnt matter about right now, today. If thats the case, Kevin Love is better than Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson. And nobody anywhere near that state would even dare utter those words unless they were looking for hysterical laughter.

Kevin Love is good and one day, he could be great. But, he's not great yet and there is no point comparing him to someone else that has been great for a very long time.

I didn't start the Kevin Love comparisons to Kobe Bryant I just pointed out what I see as the facts. Right now Love is better than Kobe. I think he is EASILY better than Kobe. Jordan and Magic are not playing right now Kobe is. So what is wrong with comparing them right now.
Post #: 183
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 3:56:10 PM   
kurt bilben


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From: socal as well
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I am about as far from being a Laker/ Kobe Bryant fan as there is anywhere, but to compare Kevin Love to Kobe is just not in the realm of reality right now, unless you simply are comparing them on individual stats of a young player on his way up to an alltime NBA legend nearing the twilight of his career. So Kevin Love is much better than Tim Duncan right now- so what! The Bryant's, and Duncan's have been through soooo many playoff battles, and usually willed their respective teams to victories/ championships that to compare the best young player on a very mediocre team to players of that stature is almost laughable at this point.

Hey I like Love, he's from my hometown in Lake Oswego, Oregon, he's a hard working, lunch pale guy that has maxxed out every inch of his potential, but he doesn't belong in the same sentences as those guy's yet, and maybe ever.
Post #: 184
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 4:08:23 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

I am about as far from being a Laker/ Kobe Bryant fan as there is anywhere, but to compare Kevin Love to Kobe is just not in the realm of reality right now, unless you simply are comparing them on individual stats of a young player on his way up to an alltime NBA legend nearing the twilight of his career. So Kevin Love is much better than Tim Duncan right now- so what! The Bryant's, and Duncan's have been through soooo many playoff battles, and usually willed their respective teams to victories/ championships that to compare the best young player on a very mediocre team to players of that stature is almost laughable at this point.

Hey I like Love, he's from my hometown in Lake Oswego, Oregon, he's a hard working, lunch pale guy that has maxxed out every inch of his potential, but he doesn't belong in the same sentences as those guy's yet, and maybe ever.

ONCE again all I am saying is that LOVE is BETTER RIGHT NOW. I am not comparing careers. Since they are all playing it is very reasonable to compare them as they are right now.
Post #: 185
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 5:08:18 PM   
kurt bilben


Posts: 18676
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: socal as well
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

I am about as far from being a Laker/ Kobe Bryant fan as there is anywhere, but to compare Kevin Love to Kobe is just not in the realm of reality right now, unless you simply are comparing them on individual stats of a young player on his way up to an alltime NBA legend nearing the twilight of his career. So Kevin Love is much better than Tim Duncan right now- so what! The Bryant's, and Duncan's have been through soooo many playoff battles, and usually willed their respective teams to victories/ championships that to compare the best young player on a very mediocre team to players of that stature is almost laughable at this point.

Hey I like Love, he's from my hometown in Lake Oswego, Oregon, he's a hard working, lunch pale guy that has maxxed out every inch of his potential, but he doesn't belong in the same sentences as those guy's yet, and maybe ever.

ONCE again all I am saying is that LOVE is BETTER RIGHT NOW. I am not comparing careers. Since they are all playing it is very reasonable to compare them as they are right now.



Not sure you could even say that KG.

Polar opposite players on polar opposite teams.

Kobe now simply needs to shoulder most of the scoring load, and make clutch buckets down the stretch of games (And big games, something Love has never been close to). Kobe also needs to make an occasional stop defensively which he can still do.

Love finally has gotten a coach who will run a play for him every now and then, however he is almost the complete Twolve team, and needs to do everything. He also does all the blue collar work. But he certainly hasn't proven to be a guy you can get crucial buckets from down the stretch, or defend bigger players in the post consistently when you need a big stop. Maybe these will come with maturity, but Kobe certainly has this on him now.
Post #: 186
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 6:56:44 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 32864
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Again good stuff here. I know I am talking with a smaller market populous here, but here is the difference between the Wolves and Lakers (and keep in mind I will never be confused with a die hard, to-my-grave Lakers fan).

* Wolves fans look forward to 50 wins. Lakers fans expect it every single season.

* Wolves fans dream of competing for and reaching the NBA Finals. Lakers fans expect it.. every season.

* The Wolves are a team searching for their championship culture, putting together that right mix that will have them competing for 5-10 years and often destroy the model long before that culture is reached.

* The Lakers are a team that established that championship culture in the 1960s and 70s and always put themselves in a position to continue it. Winning 16 championships isnt on accident.

Here is something else. Wolves fans have only had and seen one true superstar on their team, although its probable they have another in the making (if he stays long term). IMO, Wolves fans think they know greatness when they see it, but really dont know what it looks like. Greatness isnt going out and being adored by the home crowd and getting a max contract. Its plenty of guys in the NBA that have done that. Greatness is elevating your team above all others, sometimes by only your sheer will to compete and win, go out and win a championship (or five). Greatness is making those around you better, making them hungrier and making them believe.

The Wolves fans have never seen that. Ever. The Lakers fans (and most anyone else that watches basketball) have seen it at least seven times with that franchise.

Its easy for Wolves fans to think that a player best known for getting rebounds is a true superstar and is better than a player the consensus has deemed one for over a decade. But, thats becuz they view that with bias. They can throw up stats and game footage all they want, but stats only tell the story folks actually want others to hear. To prove my point about stats, here is one:

Championships
Kobe Bryant - five. Kevin Love - zero.

Lets go even deeper.

Championships without Shaquille O' Neal
Kobe Bryant - two. Kevin Love - zero.

Now, what does either stat really mean? Honestly, depending on the debate, it can mean whatever it is someone wants to it mean. To my point, stats on their own are meaningless. Period.

The proof is in the pudding with regards to Kevin Love versus Kobe Bryant. Wolves fans want Kevin Love to be a true superstar and want Kevin Love to be that guy that leads their team to prominence. Wolves fans want so bad for an NBA championship to eliminate the shadows of their original team skipping town, going somewhere else that isnt indicative of their nickname and later become the flagship organization of the NBA. Most of all, Wolves fans just want to be associated with the best.

Lakers fans dont have to go through all of that becuz theyve seen the best - at least four times. They dont have to make up arguments about this guy being better than that guy, except when it comes to all-time bests.

Kevin is Love not better than Kobe Bryant. Not today, not yesterday, probably not ever. It doesnt matter about right now, today. If thats the case, Kevin Love is better than Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson. And nobody anywhere near that state would even dare utter those words unless they were looking for hysterical laughter.

Kevin Love is good and one day, he could be great. But, he's not great yet and there is no point comparing him to someone else that has been great for a very long time.


Nobody is comparing the franchises. There are quite a few very savvy NBA fans in here. Being part of a smaller market populous has little to do with anything. Most of us are aware of all your comparison of the franchises. It's not really the discussion in here.
I also find it a bit demeaning when you say Wolves fans think they know greatness when they see it, but really don't know what it looks like. You think we only watch the Wolves? I know all about greatness as a lifetime Celtic fan. Last I looked they have more NBA championships than any team??? I also recognize greatness in following the NBA for around 40 years.

Regarding Kevin Love I would agree he is most known for his rebounding ability. He has already accomplished statistics that compare with most of the all time greats. He was also I believe 4th in the NBA in scoring. I think you really don't watch Kevin much at all. You are correct that we want so much for this team to win and to be associated with the best. I would guess that's what most NBA fans want for their respective teams.

< Message edited by Steve Lentz -- 8/18/2012 7:26:02 PM >


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Post #: 187
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 7:01:29 PM   
Brad Norman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Again good stuff here. I know I am talking with a smaller market populous here, but here is the difference between the Wolves and Lakers (and keep in mind I will never be confused with a die hard, to-my-grave Lakers fan).

Most of what you go on to talk about comes down to pure economics as well as the length of time each franchise has been around. The Lakers had a big headstart on the Wolves, who have been around for less than 25 years. The Lakers have been located in a very large market for a long time now and have huge advantages because of it. They can afford to spend more money than most teams and can draw big free agents as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Its easy for Wolves fans to think that a player best known for getting rebounds is a true superstar and is better than a player the consensus has deemed one for over a decade. But, thats becuz they view that with bias. They can throw up stats and game footage all they want, but stats only tell the story folks actually want others to hear. To prove my point about stats, here is one:

Championships
Kobe Bryant - five. Kevin Love - zero.

Lets go even deeper.

Championships without Shaquille O' Neal
Kobe Bryant - two. Kevin Love - zero.

Now, what does either stat really mean? Honestly, depending on the debate, it can mean whatever it is someone wants to it mean. To my point, stats on their own are meaningless. Period.

Championships over a career and WP48 aren't even in the same universe as statistics. Robert Horry has 7 rings. Does that make him better than both Jordan and Kobe? It takes a team to win a championship, not a superstar. Superstars certainly help, but as both Jordan and Kobe found out, you can't do it by yourself. Besides, Kobe has played 16 seasons in the league to Love's four--not exactly a fair comparison. WP48 is an average stat, not a total number. It's far from meaningless and way more useful than just counting championships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Kevin is Love not better than Kobe Bryant. Not today, not yesterday, probably not ever.

This is just your assertion and has no proof to back it up, unless you include counting championships, in which case I just proved that Robert Horry is better than Michael Jordan.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

It doesnt matter about right now, today. If thats the case, Kevin Love is better than Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson. And nobody anywhere near that state would even dare utter those words unless they were looking for hysterical laughter.

Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson aren't in the league anymore, so those would be pretty useless comparisons. Kobe is still in the league, is still making all-star games, and just played on the Olympic team. He's past his prime, but not by a whole lot. So it's interesting (to me at least) to compare an up and coming superstar to an older superstar who's past his prime.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Kevin Love is good and one day, he could be great. But, he's not great yet and there is no point comparing him to someone else that has been great for a very long time.

I completely disagree. Kevin Love is already great. His 30/30 game was the first one in about 30 years. He averaged 26 and 13 last season, which doesn't exactly get done very often. By the numbers he was the second-best player on the Olympic team this summer (after LeBron). He needs more seasons under his belt before we can compare him to Kobe over the course of their careers, but that's never been what this debate is about. You may not like the parameters of this discussion, but you have no right to tell the rest of us what we can and cannot talk about.
Post #: 188
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 7:14:17 PM   
Brad Norman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

ONCE again all I am saying is that LOVE is BETTER RIGHT NOW. I am not comparing careers. Since they are all playing it is very reasonable to compare them as they are right now.

Not sure you could even say that KG.

As I already showed, WP48, one of the very best all-around stats out there, is against you here, and it's not even close.

Kobe's WP48 for 2011-12: .047
Love's WP48 for 2011-12: .226

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

But he certainly hasn't proven to be a guy you can get crucial buckets from down the stretch

How many Wolves games did you actually watch last season? He was the go-to guy down the stretch in multiple close games. He hit the game-winning, buzzer-beating shot against the Clippers in LA. He hit back-to-back shots in the post against the Clippers in MN to keep us in front and carry us to victory. Against Dallas in MN he hit a couple big three-pointers to help us pull away in the fourth quarter. Against Philly in MN he drove to the lane, got the foul call, and hit two big free throws to seal a one-point victory. Those are just the ones I remember, and I didn't even get to watch all the games. Kevin Love showed beyond a shadow of a doubt last season that he can carry a team offensively down the stretch of games.
Post #: 189
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 7:47:45 PM   
kurt bilben


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Look I understand this is a TWolves site, and I like the them too, but I already said the way the wolves are set up is that Love is going to be a stat stuffer. Guess it's best just not to comment on Love in here.... However if you ask 30 NBA GM's who'd they'd rather win a game/ series with right now Kevin Love, or Kobe Bryant, I know from a completely unbiased point of view that a large majority would say the guy with all the rings....
Post #: 190
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 8:47:06 PM   
Brad Norman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

Look I understand this is a TWolves site, and I like the them too, but I already said the way the wolves are set up is that Love is going to be a stat stuffer.

When did it become a bad thing to put up great stats? KG filled up the stat sheet in his prime, and LeBron's been doing the same since he entered the league. Even Kobe deserves to be mentioned here. Most of the NBA's best players have put up great stats, and Love fits in quite nicely. To say that he hasn't won anything makes light of the fact that he's only 23 years old with four NBA seasons under his belt and has been surrounded by a lot of bad players every year. When he finally had a few teammates step up last season, his team had a very nice 28-game stretch winning 61% of its games with him leading the way and putting up great stats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

Guess it's best just not to comment on Love in here.... However if you ask 30 NBA GM's who'd they'd rather win a game/ series with right now Kevin Love, or Kobe Bryant, I know from a completely unbiased point of view that a large majority would say the guy with all the rings....

If all those GMs just watched the Olympics, they'd be stupid to do so. Love was way more important than Kobe in helping the USA get gold, and it was pretty obvious even to the average viewer. I think you're still viewing Kobe as the player he was a few seasons ago in his prime. He's not that guy anymore.

< Message edited by Brad Norman -- 8/18/2012 9:06:18 PM >
Post #: 191
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 10:44:04 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 21951
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

I am about as far from being a Laker/ Kobe Bryant fan as there is anywhere, but to compare Kevin Love to Kobe is just not in the realm of reality right now, unless you simply are comparing them on individual stats of a young player on his way up to an alltime NBA legend nearing the twilight of his career. So Kevin Love is much better than Tim Duncan right now- so what! The Bryant's, and Duncan's have been through soooo many playoff battles, and usually willed their respective teams to victories/ championships that to compare the best young player on a very mediocre team to players of that stature is almost laughable at this point.

Hey I like Love, he's from my hometown in Lake Oswego, Oregon, he's a hard working, lunch pale guy that has maxxed out every inch of his potential, but he doesn't belong in the same sentences as those guy's yet, and maybe ever.

ONCE again all I am saying is that LOVE is BETTER RIGHT NOW. I am not comparing careers. Since they are all playing it is very reasonable to compare them as they are right now.



Not sure you could even say that KG.

Polar opposite players on polar opposite teams.

Kobe now simply needs to shoulder most of the scoring load, and make clutch buckets down the stretch of games (And big games, something Love has never been close to). Kobe also needs to make an occasional stop defensively which he can still do.

Love finally has gotten a coach who will run a play for him every now and then, however he is almost the complete Twolve team, and needs to do everything. He also does all the blue collar work. But he certainly hasn't proven to be a guy you can get crucial buckets from down the stretch, or defend bigger players in the post consistently when you need a big stop. Maybe these will come with maturity, but Kobe certainly has this on him now.

Kobe makes crucial buckets only because he takes every attempt. It is a statistical fact that Kobe is not good in the clutch. Using the ESPN clutch shooting criteria Kobe shoots 30% on clutch shots. He is no longer efficient. Kobe does not have this on Love. Kobe would be better if he could bring his scoring down to about 16 per game by shooting more selectively and passing more often to his teammates. I now consider Kobe the tied for the third best player on the Lakers. He has been a very good but very overrated player over his career and now he really isn't that good anymore.
Post #: 192
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 11:04:48 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 25030
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

Look I understand this is a TWolves site, and I like the them too, but I already said the way the wolves are set up is that Love is going to be a stat stuffer. Guess it's best just not to comment on Love in here.... However if you ask 30 NBA GM's who'd they'd rather win a game/ series with right now Kevin Love, or Kobe Bryant, I know from a completely unbiased point of view that a large majority would say the guy with all the rings....




Post #: 193
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 11:11:49 PM   
Brad Norman


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Joined: 7/19/2007
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I ran across this link the other day about the top Olympic performers.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/223004/2012_Olympics_Final_Advanced_Player_Stats

In terms of ORtg (points produced per 100 possessions), Love ranked second at 147.5 right behind LeBron at 148.0. Kobe was 13th at 120.6.
Post #: 194
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 11:13:22 PM   
Brad Norman


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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--serge-ibaka-reaches-agreement-on-four-year-extension-with-oklahoma-city.html

Serge Ibaka reaches agreement on four-year extension with Oklahoma City

Oklahoma City forward Serge Ibaka has reached agreement on a four-year, $48 million contract extension, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Ibaka, 22, could’ve been a restricted free agent next summer, and his deal now locks into place three of the Thunder’s core young stars --- Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Ibaka. Durant and Westbrook each have the maximum contracts allowed under the NBA's collective bargaining agreement.


This deal leaves the future uncertain for guard James Harden, who could command a maximum contract on the league market as a restricted free agent next summer. Along with the remainder of Kendrick Perkins' three years and $27 million, the small-market Thunder will be hard-pressed to invest so much money into their payroll.


In his third NBA season in 2011-’12, Ibaka averaged 9.5 points, 7.5 rebounds and 3.6 blocks per game. He’s one of the league’s best rim protectors, and been rapidly developing his offensive game. Ibaka was a key player on Spain’s silver-medal-winning Olympic team this month in London.
Post #: 195
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/18/2012 11:26:06 PM   
Brad Norman


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Joined: 7/19/2007
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$12 million per year is more than I expected Ibaka to get. Harden's certainly not going to take less than that. It's going to be either the max or just less than the max. OKC's definitely going to be paying the tax; it's just a matter of time. They might be able to avoid it in 2013-14 by amnestying Perkins next summer, but by 2015-16 they're going to be paying a lot of money to their big four.

Durant: $21.2M
Westbrook: $16.7M
Harden: $14M (???)
Ibaka: $12.3M (?)
Total: $64.2M (current luxury tax kicks in at about $70M)
Post #: 196
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/19/2012 7:35:48 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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When he finally had a few teammates step up last season, his team had a very nice 28-game stretch winning 61% of its games with him leading the way and putting up great stats.

Hmmm, taken in context... impressive in a strange way. I mean you don't have much more to go on so you did a good kob cobbling together meaningless stats and jargon.
Post #: 197
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/19/2012 7:45:45 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Status: offline
So based on the excuses in here, Kevin "Superstar" Love can go his entire career without even competing for a championship, let alone win one, two, or five, and yet he'll still be called (here) and all-time great, a superstar, blah, blah.

As mentioned, you haven't absorbed what it takes to be great. Willing others to step up through years of playoff battles, taking over in the NBA Finals, etc.

Love is 'only' 4 years in? As if that doesn't count. Please. Just when will the years in count? He'll likely be broken and even slower in 4 more years so is it years 6-7?

Olympics. Olympics??!

The excuses mount and they are already woven into such nice soundbites they'd make any politician proud.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 8/19/2012 8:27:06 AM >
Post #: 198
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/19/2012 7:48:43 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I would willing to bet Howard's scoring and rebounding go down.....which would be about bynum's 17.* and 11.* averages last year plus he isnt as big.

As an outsider looking in....the biggest problems with Bynum were attitude and injuries.....can u honestly say those are fixed with Howard?

With Howard being able to rebound all of Kobe's bricks those averages should go up .

Howard's attitude on the court has never been much of a problem as far as I know. The difference between Howard and Bynum are that Howard is easily more athletic and much more of a warrior. Injuries have never been a concern for Howard in the past but I know he is dealing with recovery from surgery right now. I expect Howard to recover from his surgery and be at his very best for most of this coming season. Bynum has his moments when he is very good, I just don't see him as being an elite player. Howard is arguably the second best player in the league.



Good analysis.

Cool I tell it like it is. You like it when I do that about how tough The Lakers should be this year. You don't like it when I do it comparing Kobe and Love.


Last I checked this is an opinion forum and I disagree with your non-sensical comparison of Kobe and Love so I'll speak up. If that bothers you so be it. Reality can hurt, but you'll learn.
Post #: 199
RE: NBA Talk 2012 - 8/19/2012 7:52:41 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad Norman

I ran across this link the other day about the top Olympic performers.

http://basketball.realgm.com/article/223004/2012_Olympics_Final_Advanced_Player_Stats

In terms of ORtg (points produced per 100 possessions), Love ranked second at 147.5 right behind LeBron at 148.0. Kobe was 13th at 120.6.


From a Lakers perspective, the important thing is to hope Kobe Bryant didn't put too much effort into the Olympics because they need him for another title run.

See the difference? You play fantasy basketball with non NBA games and I think about ramifications for an NBA Championship.
Post #: 200
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