quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M
Wish I could get into KOC’s head on what he wants to do with Darnold. If he’s eager to tie us to him for years I’ll probably start paying less attention.
Anticipating JJM’s story beginning is the big thing for next year. I want Kevin to be steadfast in sticking with the plan.

I watched his last press conference.....he didn't sound like a coach excited about keeping Sam.

I'm hoping KOCs extension gives him a big picture confidence boost.

He has to feel like, Darnold came out of nowhere and performed much much better than expected ... but didn't take us any farther than the last one-yr contract dude.

I have no idea if JJM is 'the guy', has 'it' or whatever. But he's KOCs guy presumably (or these people know absolutely nothing about what they're doing).

Time to stand on your own choices. Cousins was not that. Darnold's one year contract infers that he was not that.

Yeah I am eating crow on Sam and he still isn't the guy.....tells you how much difference the top 4-7 QBs are to the rest. Currently: Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Hurts, Jayden......then the rest who aren't worth it (big $$).

Sometimes you can't see it until they are in the playoffs.

For sure, and not just one playoff game.

Was Kirk’s game winner to Rudolph his first playoff game? Not sure.

Regardless, I don’t know what an adequate sample size is, different players and situations …

But somebody who seems to relish the moment, like Daniels, has to be an indicator. You can also tell when the moment is too big for some QBs.

The moment wasn't too big for Sam (in the regular season) but it was his first postseason so who knows---we have a QBOTF that we have to find out about any way. Let someone else take the chance.

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

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ORIGINAL: Todd M
Wish I could get into KOC’s head on what he wants to do with Darnold. If he’s eager to tie us to him for years I’ll probably start paying less attention.
Anticipating JJM’s story beginning is the big thing for next year. I want Kevin to be steadfast in sticking with the plan.

I watched his last press conference.....he didn't sound like a coach excited about keeping Sam.

I'm hoping KOCs extension gives him a big picture confidence boost.

He has to feel like, Darnold came out of nowhere and performed much much better than expected ... but didn't take us any farther than the last one-yr contract dude.

I have no idea if JJM is 'the guy', has 'it' or whatever. But he's KOCs guy presumably (or these people know absolutely nothing about what they're doing).

Time to stand on your own choices. Cousins was not that. Darnold's one year contract infers that he was not that.

Yeah I am eating crow on Sam and he still isn't the guy.....tells you how much difference the top 4-7 QBs are to the rest. Currently: Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Hurts, Jayden......then the rest who aren't worth it (big $$).

Sometimes you can't see it until they are in the playoffs.

For sure, and not just one playoff game.

Was Kirk’s game winner to Rudolph his first playoff game? Not sure.

Regardless, I don’t know what an adequate sample size is, different players and situations …

But somebody who seems to relish the moment, like Daniels, has to be an indicator. You can also tell when the moment is too big for some QBs.

The moment wasn't too big for Sam (in the regular season) but it was his first postseason so who knows---we have a QBOTF that we have to find out about any way. Let someone else take the chance.

We have pre-season great Sloter, 16 not 17 game regular season great Darnold.

Now all we need is a post-season killer.

I like JJM but he will have to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Looks a little too wholesome to me. And he certainly is not going to be corrupted by Kevin the Benign into viciously attacking defenses.

We’ll see soon enough.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I like JJM but he will have to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Looks a little too wholesome to me. And he certainly is not going to be corrupted by Kevin the Benign into viciously attacking defenses.

Agreed on McCarthy looking too wholesome, but I also thought the same of Mahomes. Looks can be deceiving, and I think KOC may be more competitive than some believe him to be.

Hopefully McCarthy has been around Harbaugh enough, and hopefully he and BFlo (assuming he is back) can push KOC towards a Super Bowl win.

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ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Kwesi gets extended 2 years.

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ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I like JJM but he will have to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Looks a little too wholesome to me. And he certainly is not going to be corrupted by Kevin the Benign into viciously attacking defenses.

Agreed on McCarthy looking too wholesome, but I also thought the same of Mahomes. Looks can be deceiving, and I think KOC may be more competitive than some believe him to be.

Hopefully McCarthy has been around Harbaugh enough, and hopefully he and BFlo (assuming he is back) can push KOC towards a Super Bowl win.

Mahomes
Burrow
Brady

Hell.. Montana

A bunch of choir boy looking, ice in their veins, cold blooded assassins.
JJM, come on down...

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I like JJM but he will have to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Looks a little too wholesome to me. And he certainly is not going to be corrupted by Kevin the Benign into viciously attacking defenses.

Agreed on McCarthy looking too wholesome, but I also thought the same of Mahomes. Looks can be deceiving, and I think KOC may be more competitive than some believe him to be.

Hopefully McCarthy has been around Harbaugh enough, and hopefully he and BFlo (assuming he is back) can push KOC towards a Super Bowl win.

Mahomes
Burrow
Brady

Hell.. Montana

A bunch of choir boy looking, ice in their veins, cold blooded assassins.
JJM, come on down...

I always thought Brady looked like a cutthroat daylight trader american psycho type.

Maybe Burrow from your list. Neither Mahomes nor Montana, they look like gym rats.

No choir boys please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I like JJM but he will have to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Looks a little too wholesome to me. And he certainly is not going to be corrupted by Kevin the Benign into viciously attacking defenses.

Agreed on McCarthy looking too wholesome, but I also thought the same of Mahomes. Looks can be deceiving, and I think KOC may be more competitive than some believe him to be.

Hopefully McCarthy has been around Harbaugh enough, and hopefully he and BFlo (assuming he is back) can push KOC towards a Super Bowl win.

Mahomes
Burrow
Brady

Hell.. Montana

A bunch of choir boy looking, ice in their veins, cold blooded assassins.
JJM, come on down...

I always thought Brady looked like a cutthroat daylight trader american psycho type.

Maybe Burrow from your list. Neither Mahomes nor Montana, they look like gym rats.

No choir boys please.

"I always thought Brady looked like a cutthroat daylight trader american psycho type."
Yeah, 20 years in... go look at his rookie/draft pics... looked like he was on the chess team.

Montana a gym rat in his rookie year?
Agree to disagree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I like JJM but he will have to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Looks a little too wholesome to me. And he certainly is not going to be corrupted by Kevin the Benign into viciously attacking defenses.

Agreed on McCarthy looking too wholesome, but I also thought the same of Mahomes. Looks can be deceiving, and I think KOC may be more competitive than some believe him to be.

Hopefully McCarthy has been around Harbaugh enough, and hopefully he and BFlo (assuming he is back) can push KOC towards a Super Bowl win.

Mahomes
Burrow
Brady

Hell.. Montana

A bunch of choir boy looking, ice in their veins, cold blooded assassins.
JJM, come on down...

I always thought Brady looked like a cutthroat daylight trader american psycho type.

Maybe Burrow from your list. Neither Mahomes nor Montana, they look like gym rats.

No choir boys please.

"I always thought Brady looked like a cutthroat daylight trader american psycho type."
Yeah, 20 years in... go look at his rookie/draft pics... looked like he was on the chess team.

Montana a gym rat in his rookie year?
Agree to disagree.

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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: marty

Jeremiah Sirles and Alex Boone (who I wish was the Vikings OL coach) broke down the 9 sacks of Darnold against the Rams, and they had 4 or 5 of them on break downs from the OL, about 4 on Darnold (though a few more could also have been his fault, it's debatable).

Even if the Vikings improve a few of the players on the OL, if they're lacking in technique, or continuously making mental errors in big games, the line might be improved by an OL coach that has the unit playing very well in big games, instead of unit that tends to be nervous and is making errors.

The Rams sacked Hurts 7 times. Last I checked the Eagles had a very good OL.

So kudos to the Rams. But that doesn't excuse the IOL, coach or no coach. Fire the OL coach too, whatever, but cut/release the IOL starters and Ingram.

If Dalman and Trey Smith are allowed to hit FA, we better have an overpay offer ready to go. Fix this problem once and for all.

Dalman is the only FA center in PFF's to 75 free agent list. Chi Bears are rumored to be going hard for him, and Atlanta expected to try hard to retain (both with rookie QBs). Trey Smith, everyone and their mom are going to try and sign him. Dalman is expected to get 13M-15M Per, and Smith 20M plus. You sign those two, you are pretty much done in FA, and that's not if Dalman's price goes up in a bidding war. I expect both to hit FA, there's only one tag salary for o-line, so it's inflated for IOL because of T salaries. Only two guards have ever been tagged.

Will Fries (RG for Indy) actually had a higher PFF rating vs Nelson (LG for Indy, drafted top 10) before being injury. He has steadily progressed each year and might not be at his ceiling yet. I think the Vikings could get him for 13-15. If you cut Bradbury you have a dead cap hit of 2.4M and save 3.6M, which isn't great value. I'd get Will Fries and a top tier CB (quite a few options, I like Reed) as my two big FA's signings. I think you can go cheaper at Safety. Then I look at draft and pre-draft cap casualties, and see what the options area for LG and Center. Between the draft and those vets cut, you might find some good options.

I can't wait to move on from Bradbury, but if he's the weakest link on the line, I'm ok with another year with him. Plus with a rookie QB, it might be nice to have continuity with pass pro calls/etc.

Darrisaw, Brandel (hopefully he'll improve or an upgraded option), Bradbury, Will Fries, ONeil. This line, I think, is vastly improved over what we saw vs Detroit and LA in the playoffs. Bradbury's contract is done after 2025, so hoping Kwesi/KOC already have an exit strategy.

14M for Dalman and 20M for Smith doesn't mean their cap hits have to be that. Backloading can get cap hits down to 8M and 12M.

How about pass on Smith and get Dalman, Fries and Reed or Ward?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

OTC has our cap space at 58M - down from 70M due to the future contracts (I assume). Right now we have 3.4M in dead money for 2025 with Cine leading the way with 1.4M, Booth 800k, Khyree Jackson 620k, and three others under 200k.

Those with VOID years: Smith 6.5M, Darnold 5M, Murphy 4.2M, Gilmore 2.3M, A Jones 3.2M. Smith has future void money that accelerate 3M in cap hit otherwise these guys are already calculated into the 58M cap space available.

Assume Smith retires. Our cap space is 55M. Need 5M for in-season and 3M (or less if we trade out of 1st round). Cap space left: 47M.

Possible cuts: Ingram 400k (Savings 3.3M), Asamoah 300k (Savings 1.5), Ham 750k (Savings 2.7M). Oliver 4.3M (Savings 5.2M) Net effect: 54.5M (excluded Oliver)

I would keep Oliver and have him work on H back in the offseason. He's a great blocker and good hands. Ham has gotten slower and doesn't run through tackles like he did. I think Oliver could be used all over to great effect. He is overpriced but only half his salary comes off the books, the other 4.3 is sunk cost. So basically is it worth it to retain him for 5.2M.

Of course we have several extension and restructure options, which I think Kwesi will use if we have a trade partner for Sam Darnold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

OTC has our cap space at 58M - down from 70M due to the future contracts (I assume). Right now we have 3.4M in dead money for 2025 with Cine leading the way with 1.4M, Booth 800k, Khyree Jackson 620k, and three others under 200k.

Those with VOID years: Smith 6.5M, Darnold 5M, Murphy 4.2M, Gilmore 2.3M, A Jones 3.2M. Smith has future void money that accelerate 3M in cap hit otherwise these guys are already calculated into the 58M cap space available.

Assume Smith retires. Our cap space is 55M. Need 5M for in-season and 3M (or less if we trade out of 1st round). Cap space left: 47M.

Possible cuts: Ingram 400k (Savings 3.3M), Asamoah 300k (Savings 1.5), Ham 750k (Savings 2.7M). Oliver 4.3M (Savings 5.2M) Net effect: 54.5M (excluded Oliver)

I would keep Oliver and have him work on H back in the offseason. He's a great blocker and good hands. Ham has gotten slower and doesn't run through tackles like he did. I think Oliver could be used all over to great effect. He is overpriced but only half his salary comes off the books, the other 4.3 is sunk cost. So basically is it worth it to retain him for 5.2M.

Of course we have several extension and restructure options, which I think Kwesi will use if we have a trade partner for Sam Darnold.

spotrac has us at $63.6mm under...we have 54 players on our roster...they include harrison smilth as an active member - as noted above, it would cost us an additional $3mm of cap space if we cut him...i'd keep him for another season because we're most likely going to be thin at safety anyway....

extend murphy and Aaron jones, and we can use their void years money as part of the new deal - so for accounting purposes they'd be even less of a '25 cap hit...pay jones less and make him rb #2...are we interested in signing free agent najee harris as our bell cow? - or just pick up a rookie in the 3rd, or 5th round?....

tier 1 or 2 free agents to sign: DT, G, G, C, CB - we could do all of that for under $40mm in '25 cap space with creative accounting....

draft: trade back our 1st rounder for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or the best that we can get....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2025-nfl-free-agent-rankings

I target Fries for RG. 4 year deal 55M deal. Call first year cap hit 7M. 48M left in cap space. My next choice is Zeitler (RG), downside is he's 34, but would probably cost around 5M. Becton (RG Eagles) at 10-12M. Scherff (RG), age 34. 6-8M. Others: Teven Jenkins, last played LG and probably priced similar or higher to Fries. Daniels played RG for Pitt but is coming off Achilles injury and getting up there in age. Mekari has played all over the line, including tackle, which might drive up his price, but he's a very interesting FA.

IDL: I like Milton Williams, had 5 sacks and 6.5 TFL. Pair him with Philips and our rotational guys. 18M per probably. First year cap hit 9M. 39M left over.

Safety: Moehrig to replace Smith, he's moves around (up to LOS) a lot like Smith does. I think Holland will be too expensive. Moehrig 14M, cap hit 6M. 33M. I give the other spot to Theo Jackson 3 year deal, 15M. Cap hit 2M. 31M left.

Corner: I target Reed. Another 18M guy. 9M first year. 22M left over. Other corner I go Asante Samuel. He's coming off injury, so a 1 yr prove it type deal of 10M might work. Cap left over: 12M. Blackmon was playing slot. I also resign Moreau for depth, two year deal, first year cap hit 1M. 11M.

RB: I resign Aaron Jones for a two year 12M deal, with 2nd year void-able by either party. Split his void years over those two years and his 2025 hit is 7.2. Left about 4M.

QB: Daniel Jones, same deal as Darnold. 4M hit and 6M void year. No cap left.

Draft would be free for BPA, targeting IDL and RB (supposed to be deep for those position), and also targeting CB, S, IOL/C. Maybe TE?

OR something like that. Still thin at CB, worry about relying on Blackmon in the slot with 3 career starts and off season ending injury. Not a lot of depth either at safety. I tried to minimize using void years to lower first year hits, really hope Kwesi moves away from that. I'd be interested to see how others would build the team. PFF link has a % of cap comparison so I used that and googled projected salary caps for each player.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

OTC has our cap space at 58M - down from 70M due to the future contracts (I assume). Right now we have 3.4M in dead money for 2025 with Cine leading the way with 1.4M, Booth 800k, Khyree Jackson 620k, and three others under 200k.

Those with VOID years: Smith 6.5M, Darnold 5M, Murphy 4.2M, Gilmore 2.3M, A Jones 3.2M. Smith has future void money that accelerate 3M in cap hit otherwise these guys are already calculated into the 58M cap space available.

Assume Smith retires. Our cap space is 55M. Need 5M for in-season and 3M (or less if we trade out of 1st round). Cap space left: 47M.

Possible cuts: Ingram 400k (Savings 3.3M), Asamoah 300k (Savings 1.5), Ham 750k (Savings 2.7M). Oliver 4.3M (Savings 5.2M) Net effect: 54.5M (excluded Oliver)

I would keep Oliver and have him work on H back in the offseason. He's a great blocker and good hands. Ham has gotten slower and doesn't run through tackles like he did. I think Oliver could be used all over to great effect. He is overpriced but only half his salary comes off the books, the other 4.3 is sunk cost. So basically is it worth it to retain him for 5.2M.

Of course we have several extension and restructure options, which I think Kwesi will use if we have a trade partner for Sam Darnold.

spotrac has us at $63.6mm under...we have 54 players on our roster...they include harrison smilth as an active member - as noted above, it would cost us an additional $3mm of cap space if we cut him...i'd keep him for another season because we're most likely going to be thin at safety anyway....

extend murphy and Aaron jones, and we can use their void years money as part of the new deal - so for accounting purposes they'd be even less of a '25 cap hit...pay jones less and make him rb #2...are we interested in signing free agent najee harris as our bell cow? - or just pick up a rookie in the 3rd, or 5th round?....

tier 1 or 2 free agents to sign: DT, G, G, C, CB - we could do all of that for under $40mm in '25 cap space with creative accounting....

draft: trade back our 1st rounder for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or the best that we can get....

I've always used OTC, they seem to be more accurate when final numbers are announced. I also don't want to use too much creative accounting, you look at 2026 and 2027 and there multiple void year contracts already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2025-nfl-free-agent-rankings

I target Fries for RG. 4 year deal 55M deal. Call first year cap hit 7M. 48M left in cap space. My next choice is Zeitler (RG), downside is he's 34, but would probably cost around 5M. Becton (RG Eagles) at 10-12M. Scherff (RG), age 34. 6-8M. Others: Teven Jenkins, last played LG and probably priced similar or higher to Fries. Daniels played RG for Pitt but is coming off Achilles injury and getting up there in age. Mekari has played all over the line, including tackle, which might drive up his price, but he's a very interesting FA.

IDL: I like Milton Williams, had 5 sacks and 6.5 TFL. Pair him with Philips and our rotational guys. 18M per probably. First year cap hit 9M. 39M left over.

Safety: Moehrig to replace Smith, he's moves around (up to LOS) a lot like Smith does. I think Holland will be too expensive. Moehrig 14M, cap hit 6M. 33M. I give the other spot to Theo Jackson 3 year deal, 15M. Cap hit 2M. 31M left.

Corner: I target Reed. Another 18M guy. 9M first year. 22M left over. Other corner I go Asante Samuel. He's coming off injury, so a 1 yr prove it type deal of 10M might work. Cap left over: 12M. Blackmon was playing slot. I also resign Moreau for depth, two year deal, first year cap hit 1M. 11M.

RB: I resign Aaron Jones for a two year 12M deal, with 2nd year void-able by either party. Split his void years over those two years and his 2025 hit is 7.2. Left about 4M.

QB: Daniel Jones, same deal as Darnold. 4M hit and 6M void year. No cap left.

Draft would be free for BPA, targeting IDL and RB (supposed to be deep for those position), and also targeting CB, S, IOL/C. Maybe TE?

OR something like that. Still thin at CB, worry about relying on Blackmon in the slot with 3 career starts and off season ending injury. Not a lot of depth either at safety. I tried to minimize using void years to lower first year hits, really hope Kwesi moves away from that. I'd be interested to see how others would build the team. PFF link has a % of cap comparison so I used that and googled projected salary caps for each player.

That would be an amazing offseason.

All those players are on my radar as well.

Milton/Reed would be the keys.
You need a stud cb/dl combo.

There are probably a number of ways to go for cb/ol.
DL is slimmer pickings.

I don't know if they address safety or not.
I know they like Theo Jackson a lot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

OTC has our cap space at 58M - down from 70M due to the future contracts (I assume). Right now we have 3.4M in dead money for 2025 with Cine leading the way with 1.4M, Booth 800k, Khyree Jackson 620k, and three others under 200k.

Those with VOID years: Smith 6.5M, Darnold 5M, Murphy 4.2M, Gilmore 2.3M, A Jones 3.2M. Smith has future void money that accelerate 3M in cap hit otherwise these guys are already calculated into the 58M cap space available.

Assume Smith retires. Our cap space is 55M. Need 5M for in-season and 3M (or less if we trade out of 1st round). Cap space left: 47M.

Possible cuts: Ingram 400k (Savings 3.3M), Asamoah 300k (Savings 1.5), Ham 750k (Savings 2.7M). Oliver 4.3M (Savings 5.2M) Net effect: 54.5M (excluded Oliver)

I would keep Oliver and have him work on H back in the offseason. He's a great blocker and good hands. Ham has gotten slower and doesn't run through tackles like he did. I think Oliver could be used all over to great effect. He is overpriced but only half his salary comes off the books, the other 4.3 is sunk cost. So basically is it worth it to retain him for 5.2M.

Of course we have several extension and restructure options, which I think Kwesi will use if we have a trade partner for Sam Darnold.

spotrac has us at $63.6mm under...we have 54 players on our roster...they include harrison smilth as an active member - as noted above, it would cost us an additional $3mm of cap space if we cut him...i'd keep him for another season because we're most likely going to be thin at safety anyway....

extend murphy and Aaron jones, and we can use their void years money as part of the new deal - so for accounting purposes they'd be even less of a '25 cap hit...pay jones less and make him rb #2...are we interested in signing free agent najee harris as our bell cow? - or just pick up a rookie in the 3rd, or 5th round?....

tier 1 or 2 free agents to sign: DT, G, G, C, CB - we could do all of that for under $40mm in '25 cap space with creative accounting....

draft: trade back our 1st rounder for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or the best that we can get....

I've always used OTC, they seem to be more accurate when final numbers are announced. I also don't want to use too much creative accounting, you look at 2026 and 2027 and there multiple void year contracts already.

I took a look and I get what you're saying - you're looking at 'dead cap' on void year deals, i.e., players that aren't under contract to play that season....

but something to consider is that many of those players are players we'll very likely want to keep a little longer, thus extend and kick their dead cap out a few more years...murphy, jones, van ginkel, cashman, and maybe harrison smith....

others we might want to cut this season....bradbury, ham, ingram, oliver = that's $14.6mm right there

or next season...hockenson = $9mm savings

harrison smith is an odd one - so many talking heads have talked about him taking a huge pay cut over the last few years, but we must have given him one hell of a restructuring bonus because he, and his cap hits and dead cap hits are hard to close out....