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Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/2/2019 3:42:15 PM)
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ORIGINAL: bohumm
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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
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ORIGINAL: bohumm
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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
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ORIGINAL: bohumm
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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes
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ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young
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ORIGINAL: bohumm
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ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
Still waiting to hear who all these "credible" starting offensive linemen are that have already told their agents to get to Minnesota, first stop. And do the reverse leverage thing... tell the Wilfs they are not leaving until Brzez signs their guy. Below market rate, screw the other teams, =better schemes, just do whatever it takes to sign in Minny.
We can host and sign them all simultaneously!
Matt Paradis
Mitch Morse https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Matt-Paradis-free-agent-profile-128519680/
Andy Levitre damaged goods. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24725303/andy-levitre-atlanta-falcons-left-guard-placed-injured-reserve-triceps-injury
Ramon Foster https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Ramon-Foster-free-agent-profile-128474860/
Quinton Spain https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SpaiQu00.htm
Travis Swanson https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SwanTr00.htm
Rodger Saffold https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SaffRo20.htm
Ju'Wuan James http://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/28635/big-payday-near-jawuan-james-will-see-how-much-dolphins-value-him
A.J. Cann
Mike Iupati
Max Garcia
And others who can be signed or traded for to, at a minimum, credibly man the interior of the OL so we're not entirely dependent on finding Day 1 starters in the draft.
Now tell me the two certain Day 1 starters who we will for sure be able to draft in April so we're not starting Tom Compton and Mike Remmers in Game One.
Just added some links
Its just a list and doesn't prove or disprove anything. We will see in the next four or five weeks who is actually going to be available ... and very importantly, why.
(For instance, the list starts out with broken leg, torn triceps, 33 years old) ...
There is usually only one or two good starting caliber OL available each free agency, then a player or two or three with a lot of game experience but OK labels (Reiff), and then a bunch of journeyman.
List not meant to be exhaustive or even proffer certifiably capable OL; instead, I want to show that there are players aplenty in FA and on rosters for the team to comb through and come up with a path to standing up a credible OL in Week One of 2019 no matter what happens in the draft. That path is much clearer than hoping to find at least two legit Day 1 starters in the draft or afterward.
From my POV, which is obviously limited, I would go all in on Paradis. The Kubiak Kids, if they were worth hiring, should give us an inside path. He could be valuable in not only anchoring a chronically weak interior OL, but also in implementing the new system. Then I would focus on an OG who can be at least minimally effective in that system and pass pro, and let Elflein, Easton (if he re-signs), draft picks, lower-tier FAs, etc compete for the other OG spot.
Costly, to some degree, but when you let your roof fall apart and the rainy season is coming, you might overpay to have a viable structure.
Aplenty?
There’s typically not.
I appreciate the outlook right now but pickings are very slim - for everybody. I’m not sure how many consistently decent players will be available - I’m not talking about the good ones. but not a whole lot. Everybody is scrambling.
We have our work cut out.
Remember there are players on other rosters, too, that we can trade for. This is the job of management. There is a pro personnel group whose job it is to know everything about every player who is in the league now, has recently been in the league, is in the CFL, has been in NFL camps, etc. That includes what it might take to get them via trade. A lot us, myself included, hoped this is what happened when we acquired Jones from the NYG at the beginning of the season, but that didn't work out.
There are guys that will enter free agency who are not what one might call "good", but who can usually hold their ground in pass pro and carry out their assignment at least effectively enough to get our running plays started. Sometimes they'll exceed that and sometimes they'll fail, but they can credibly man the position for the most part well enough to allow the offense to operate. That is well north of what we had at LG, C, and RG last year.
I'm not talking about good, just good enough. If we don't add at least a couple of interior guys in FA that can do that, we are counting on finding Day 1 starters in the draft who are available when we pick. That can definitely happen, but we can't count on it. That is what happened in the draft last year.
If we can add Paradis, which should be at least possible with the Kubiak Kids on board, we add a high-quality anchor who knows how to run our new scheme exactly as intended and can call the signals for it from the first mini camp, though he may still be recovering from his broken leg. His price shouldn't be too high, meaning cutting Remmers will get us at least two-thirds of the way there. Then add a guy who is of the type described above for one guard and let Elf, a draft pick, and/or whoever compete for the other spot. If you get a guy at 18 or 50 who is ready to step in at a higher level than the guy we sign, so much the better, but we don't have to count on it to fill a hole. Also, if there's a guy at another position of need like TE, LB, DT, WR, etc., you can consider taking him because you don't have a gaping hole you have to fill; that's how you get to do modified BPA every year instead of trying to continually make up for past failures or expiring contracts.
Going into the draft with a gaping hole at LG and RG, which is what we have, is folly, especially because Elf did not look good himself last year. I have a lot of hope for him, but managing via hope is a ticket to stay where you are or regress.
You and I are going round and round. I do not believe you can go into the draft expecting one, much less two starters ... especially at a targeted position.
There will not be a multitude of good plug and play FAs available, there never are. Besides, too many other teams equally desperate with more money.
Good enough? Changing out Compton, Jones, and Remmers with 'good enough' veteran free agents like Compton, Jones, and Remmers (before they signed with us) didn't fly either.
The offensive braintrust (OC, Kubiak) has to put together a cohesive plan of attack and stick to it. Our new OL coach(es) has to do a better job developing what we have. The draft and pro personnel people have to do a better job of uncovering gamers.
We need some luck or atleast an absence of really bad luck.
What we won't have is a bunch of shiny new fan toys – multiple FAs and multiple high Draft Picks – to make things better.
I think you and I are in approximately the same place, though while I'm advocating for the team to take action you seem resigned to the team accepting the status quo to a certain degree and hoping for internal improvement.
Remmers was a slightly-better-than-just-good-enough RT, but he was a shitshow at guard; we needed him at RT instead of Hill, who was clearly not good enough. Elflein seemed unready to come back, much less take the next step, after his injuries. Easton was just good enough and there was reason to hope after recovering from his injury last year he would be a little better, but only if he was the weakest link on the line. Compton as a starting guard was always a bad idea, since he'd hardly started on some bad O-lines.
Where we differ is that I think we may well have a good shot at Paradis, who would be a difference maker. And though it's not easy by any means to find the "good enoughs" that are available at any given time via FA or trade, that's what winning organizations do. Then Elf, Easton, Isadora, draft picks, other FAs, etc. can compete for the other spot, and you have a pretty decent line at a minimum. To me that means that you give running plays a chance to get started almost all the time and you keep Cousins fairly clean. I think those are reasonable things to expect.
They may not to be able to get Paradis or anyone of that caliber, but they can't have the three voids in the interior that we had last year.
I am in no way resigned to the status quo. I am in every way advocating action.
The difference between us, is that you are focused on what is out there, mainly in FA, that you think needs to happen. I am merely trying to point out what is IMO realistic and unrealistic for how the team will approach FA and the draft.
We all agree that internal improvement is critical moving forward.
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