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Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 9:53:27 AM)

Just a question- does anybody recall Zimmer heaping this kind of praise on a rookie (Or who amounts to a rookie, like Hercules)?

Perhaps this is the New Zimmer, I seriously only remember him being quite cold on rookies/younger players.

This would be a huge development for us at a perceived hole if it indeed plays out that way.



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 10:29:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Kirk Cousins on ball left short after Irv Smith beat corner: “I guess part of the reason I left it a bit short maybe is I didn’t believe he was getting behind him like that.’’

Chris Tomasson on Twitter


This comment inspires a lot of anticipation of positive feelings going into the season. Let's hope defenses don't believe he can get behind them like that either. And then when defenses figure it out and adjust let's hope the Vikes then start running Diggs on shallow crossing routes and drag routes underneath Smith's deeper routes.

If this happens I assure you no one will miss Kyle Rudolph.

Once the defenses start quadruple teaming Smith that will allow the O Line to double team the pass rushers allowing Rudolph who will be unguarded the half an hour it takes him to get downfield to catch TD after TD.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 11:38:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Kirk Cousins on ball left short after Irv Smith beat corner: “I guess part of the reason I left it a bit short maybe is I didn’t believe he was getting behind him like that.’’

Chris Tomasson on Twitter


This comment inspires a lot of anticipation of positive feelings going into the season. Let's hope defenses don't believe he can get behind them like that either. And then when defenses figure it out and adjust let's hope the Vikes then start running Diggs on shallow crossing routes and drag routes underneath Smith's deeper routes.

If this happens I assure you no one will miss Kyle Rudolph.

the only real positive OTA news right now is nobody getting injured or thrown in jail. The rest is pure fluff.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 1:36:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

Just a question- does anybody recall Zimmer heaping this kind of praise on a rookie (Or who amounts to a rookie, like Hercules)?

Perhaps this is the New Zimmer, I seriously only remember him being quite cold on rookies/younger players.

This would be a huge development for us at a perceived hole if it indeed plays out that way.


Yes. He was very complimentary of Waynes early on.

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/football/3742139-nfl-waynes-good-start-zimmer



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 5:08:36 PM)


The 98 season was a blast at the Strib!

Yes, it was SSOO fun, almost dreamlike. Someone kept saying 'savor'.

That was the year where I correctly had the score of the NFC Championship, 30-27, with Anderson missing a game winner in regulation, except I had the VIKINGS winning in OT [:o]

That was also the season where I won $2000 on a $100 14 team Super Teaser in Vegas.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 5:13:52 PM)

Ricky, I think Kevin Durant feels unappreciated for all he did for Golden State last year.

I think underappreciated is the most common reason players allow themselves to be injured. Injuries right before playing a tough opponent, they figure the team will probably lose, so they are the player "Oh, if they only had YOU for that game".

Minicamp and preseason injuries, not sure. Maybe they just want a little time off, or can use the injury as an excuse if their performance isn't up to par, or maybe some other reason ???



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 5:54:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Ricky, I think Kevin Durant feels unappreciated for all he did for Golden State last year.

I think underappreciated is the most common reason players allow themselves to be injured. Injuries right before playing a tough opponent, they figure the team will probably lose, so they are the player "Oh, if they only had YOU for that game".

Minicamp and preseason injuries, not sure. Maybe they just want a little time off, or can use the injury as an excuse if their performance isn't up to par, or maybe some other reason ???

I was just playing with the opportunity that was presented, Marty. No meaness intended



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 5:57:23 PM)

Didn't sense any meanness whatsoever Ricky, I was just trying to speculate a little on your question.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 6:05:39 PM)

Kirk Cousins on ball left short after Irv Smith beat corner: “I guess part of the reason I left it a bit short maybe is I didn’t believe he was getting behind him like that."

I don't like Kirk saying "I guess", and "maybe", in this qoute. It makes him sound indecisive and like he doesn't really know what he is doing.

I want Kirk to be confident and decisive.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 6:05:40 PM)

I think this is a good article, explaining the WR group as specialists. It's why I like both Badet and Taylor; they add different elements to our group.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032472/article/nfls-top-5-passcatching-groups-objs-otas-absence-an-issue



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 6:06:38 PM)

Maybe Badet can take Robinson's spot and score some deep TDs.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 6:44:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think this is a good article, explaining the WR group as specialists. It's why I like both Badet and Taylor; they add different elements to our group.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032472/article/nfls-top-5-passcatching-groups-objs-otas-absence-an-issue


Our two tight ends complement each other too. They are very different- like night and day.

Having complementary receivers sometimes might enable favorable match ups which may vary from week to week.



Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 7:05:09 PM)

Kirk has plenty of confidence. A running game to go with Kirk's play action strength along with a possible second TE to stretch the field- offense is heading in the right direction. Cripes it is OTA's and his comments about the rookie TE are getting nitpicked regarding one pass in practice. Kirk is our QB. The entire team including Kirk got knocked down, all anyone can do is get back up and continue forward.

Guy was pressing last season and wanted it too bad. Tons of pressure with the contract and SB expectations which blew up. Maybe just by familiarity with his teammates there is a greater comfort level. Expecting Cousins to be anyone but Kirk is a mistake, most notable himself or coaching staff. Kirk can contribute to success with a running game, protection, excellent defense and improved special teams - that is up to the entire team and coaches to produce not just him. Nobody including Brady, Rodgers, Brees does it alone and none of them do it without consistent protection. IMO Kirk was good at decision making and tried to press or make it happen at times. Had the turnovers early but that did improve down the stretch. If trust develops with the OL expect more opportunities for big plays plus sustained drives. 30th running the football was too difficult to overcome. Make that 15th and the Vikings are a playoff team last year.

The offense needs to improve controlling and protecting the football. The defense has the ability to be best in the league. Special Teams needs to make positive plays in the return game and be accurate kicking FGs. The good news is that the doubters are all just that and need an outlet to offer insecure opinions. The actual Vikings including coaches do not doubt Kirk.

Skol- The Vikings can do it, they can.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 7:59:23 PM)

The defense had a disappointing season too. They need to bounce back, as well. I'm not sure what happened other than personal problems for Griffen.



Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 8:15:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think this is a good article, explaining the WR group as specialists. It's why I like both Badet and Taylor; they add different elements to our group.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032472/article/nfls-top-5-passcatching-groups-objs-otas-absence-an-issue



Nary a Viking mentioned...

I like Bucky Brooks, but come on



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 8:26:51 PM)

30th running the football was too difficult to overcome. Make that 15th and the Vikings are a playoff team last year.

But the 30th ranking is also a product of a QB not converting 3rd downs and getting early leads.

Are there stats on where the run game ranked in the 1st half ?

The defense also went backwards not having early leads. Bridgewater converted a higher percent of 3rd downs, resting the defense, and that also probably helped the run game.



Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 8:29:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

Kirk has plenty of confidence. A running game to go with Kirk's play action strength along with a possible second TE to stretch the field- offense is heading in the right direction. Cripes it is OTA's and his comments about the rookie TE are getting nitpicked regarding one pass in practice. Kirk is our QB. The entire team including Kirk got knocked down, all anyone can do is get back up and continue forward.

Guy was pressing last season and wanted it too bad. Tons of pressure with the contract and SB expectations which blew up. Maybe just by familiarity with his teammates there is a greater comfort level. Expecting Cousins to be anyone but Kirk is a mistake, most notable himself or coaching staff. Kirk can contribute to success with a running game, protection, excellent defense and improved special teams - that is up to the entire team and coaches to produce not just him. Nobody including Brady, Rodgers, Brees does it alone and none of them do it without consistent protection. IMO Kirk was good at decision making and tried to press or make it happen at times. Had the turnovers early but that did improve down the stretch. If trust develops with the OL expect more opportunities for big plays plus sustained drives. 30th running the football was too difficult to overcome. Make that 15th and the Vikings are a playoff team last year.

The offense needs to improve controlling and protecting the football. The defense has the ability to be best in the league. Special Teams needs to make positive plays in the return game and be accurate kicking FGs. The good news is that the doubters are all just that and need an outlet to offer insecure opinions. The actual Vikings including coaches do not doubt Kirk.

Skol- The Vikings can do it, they can.



I both underrated Cousins, and ultimately was disappointed by him.

He was quite a bit better then I thought early, and steadily declined throughout the year.

What was clear is that he deteriorated along with the OLine.

No surprise to anyone that it’s on the OLine that will hold the keys to our re-instatement to the elite of the NFC.

Dalvin stays on the field with an improved OLine I believe like you do Jason that Cousins can be that QB that takes us to the promised land.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 8:53:37 PM)

I was impressed with the throws Kirk could make, but depressed with his ability to make clutch throws, to make something happen when there is pressure, when the game is on the line, at critical junctures.



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 9:07:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn

Kirk has plenty of confidence. A running game to go with Kirk's play action strength along with a possible second TE to stretch the field- offense is heading in the right direction. Cripes it is OTA's and his comments about the rookie TE are getting nitpicked regarding one pass in practice. Kirk is our QB. The entire team including Kirk got knocked down, all anyone can do is get back up and continue forward.

Guy was pressing last season and wanted it too bad. Tons of pressure with the contract and SB expectations which blew up. Maybe just by familiarity with his teammates there is a greater comfort level. Expecting Cousins to be anyone but Kirk is a mistake, most notable himself or coaching staff. Kirk can contribute to success with a running game, protection, excellent defense and improved special teams - that is up to the entire team and coaches to produce not just him. Nobody including Brady, Rodgers, Brees does it alone and none of them do it without consistent protection. IMO Kirk was good at decision making and tried to press or make it happen at times. Had the turnovers early but that did improve down the stretch. If trust develops with the OL expect more opportunities for big plays plus sustained drives. 30th running the football was too difficult to overcome. Make that 15th and the Vikings are a playoff team last year.

The offense needs to improve controlling and protecting the football. The defense has the ability to be best in the league. Special Teams needs to make positive plays in the return game and be accurate kicking FGs. The good news is that the doubters are all just that and need an outlet to offer insecure opinions. The actual Vikings including coaches do not doubt Kirk.

Skol- The Vikings can do it, they can.

Great combination of optimism and realism. Last year was a FLUKE. We still have a killer team.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (5/31/2019 11:33:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think this is a good article, explaining the WR group as specialists. It's why I like both Badet and Taylor; they add different elements to our group.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032472/article/nfls-top-5-passcatching-groups-objs-otas-absence-an-issue



Nary a Viking mentioned...

I like Bucky Brooks, but come on



I didn't have a problem with the rankings, it was by group. After Diggs and Thielan we have a lot of ?s. I think there's tons of potential tho.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 1:41:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I was impressed with the throws Kirk could make, but depressed with his ability to make clutch throws, to make something happen when there is pressure, when the game is on the line, at critical junctures.


Everybody knows it's a team game and that Cousins was under duress with a leaky offensive line. We also know he's not a mobile/ elusive quarterback. He needed more help. (And we picked up a center who may be a stud.) More play action with a running game that is more effective will help. More throwing on timing will help. (Will he do that this season more?) Having a better third receiver option should help. (It awaits to be seen that will be the case, but we did invest a high draft pick in a more athletic tight end. ) Also we picked up a running back who seems to be a specialist in converting first downs in short yardage situations.

This is a season to be "all in". It's also a season to be all in on the quarterback. If he is not successful this season, then the Vikings will have to go another direction and reload. But let's see. Once again there will be high expectations.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 5:50:04 AM)

It's the season to be hopeful.

https://thevikingage.com/2019/06/01/7-takeaways-minnesota-vikings-otas/



Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 8:09:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

30th running the football was too difficult to overcome. Make that 15th and the Vikings are a playoff team last year.

But the 30th ranking is also a product of a QB not converting 3rd downs and getting early leads.

Are there stats on where the run game ranked in the 1st half ?

The defense also went backwards not having early leads. Bridgewater converted a higher percent of 3rd downs, resting the defense, and that also probably helped the run game.


Also probably or did. Can you back up with something besides your own assertions.

I recall an inability to run when it counted like on the goal line and 3rd and short.

26th in 3rd down %. 25th in 3rd down conversions per game. 22nd in first downs per play. 16th in 3rd downs per game. 22nd in first downs per game.

31st in rushing 1st down percentage. 30th in rushing TD percentage. 28th in rushing yards percentage. 27th in rush TDs per game. 27th in rush att per game. 32nd in total first downs rushing.

8th in pass first downs per game. 1st in passing first down percentage. 9th in passing first downs. 5th in passing TD percentage.

9 rush TDs for 27th tied with the Arizona Cardinals and Oakland Raiders. That is not good and indicates the inability to score on the goal line.
10th in pass TDs. Skewed with late game meaningless TDs IMO but still respectable.

https://princetonsportsanalytics.com/2014/02/27/third-and-six/

We heard the offense talk of getting behind the chains. Again without a threat of a running attack third down percentage conversion goes down. Blaming it on the QB is a simplistic way of looking at things. Being clutch is important but executing on first and second down is equally important, maybe more , as that is winning football. Pulling rabbits out of your hat eventually fails.

You talk of building leads which is difficult without any run game. Again if the Vikings had some sort of running game last year it makes the entire offense more effective. When a defense can stop the run without the aid of DBs that is a problem.

Mahomes had an effective run game. Goff did. Brady did, Brees did. Yet you are going to call out Cousins for being lack of a clutch player. Those teams got to where they did based on overall team. NE was and is totally balanced.

A defense like Chicago is gonna pin their ears back and wreak havoc if they know there is no ability to run.

I wish I had the 3rd down conversion splits but unable to find. How effective were the Vikings on 3rd and short? How many rushing first downs on 3rd down?

Stats do not support your " the QB cant convert third downs" Again easy or simple to blame the QB.

The Vikings are stacked on defense. Still last year they struggled stopping the run. Improve those areas and it will be interesting to see where the Vikings end up. 2017 and 2015 7th and 4th overall running the football. That helped Mr Bridgewater and Mr Keenum. What is Kirk capable of with a top ten rushing attack. Kubiak has brought that element. Shurmur did. 2016 injuries decimated the OL and the run game fell apart. 8-8 missing the playoffs last year 8-7-1 missing playoffs. Yep had the games with the kickers screwing up but the problem was the team was not good enough overall.

So as much as guys like you want to expect one player to win a Championship it just does not work that way.

If the Vikings want to win a Super Bowl they must be at the top in all phases. Rushing it and passing it. Converting third downs. Red zone efficiency. Stopping the run, stopping the pass, getting off the field on third down. Red Zone defense. Add to that winning field position with the kicking game be it coverage or return game. Making FGs and XPs.

Many have stated on this board without OL it is difficult to win. Everyone is looking for the next Mahomes or Wilson. Cousins is not that type of QB. He is not at his best out of the pocket. Kubiak will tailor the offense to fit Kirk but without executing the run game there is gonna be trouble.

I think the team can improve over last season. How much is a question mark with the lack of experience along the OL and a new system.



Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 8:59:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think this is a good article, explaining the WR group as specialists. It's why I like both Badet and Taylor; they add different elements to our group.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032472/article/nfls-top-5-passcatching-groups-objs-otas-absence-an-issue



Nary a Viking mentioned...

I like Bucky Brooks, but come on

Cousins bragging up Jordan "Sunshine" Taylor on PA's show Friday.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 11:33:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think this is a good article, explaining the WR group as specialists. It's why I like both Badet and Taylor; they add different elements to our group.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001032472/article/nfls-top-5-passcatching-groups-objs-otas-absence-an-issue



Nary a Viking mentioned...

I like Bucky Brooks, but come on

Cousins bragging up Jordan "Sunshine" Taylor on PA's show Friday.


I heard some of that. He liked how he could be at the right spot- if it was supposed to be 12 yards deep, that's where he would be, etc. I also believe he liked that he was a big target and that he would catch it even if the throw wasn't perfect. Those are good qualities for a third receiver who probably is not defended by the biggest corners. We thought Treadwell should be able to take advantage of his size and it didn't happen. We just need one of these receivers to take a big step forward. I like how at least there's lots of competition. That should bring out the best in someone.



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