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Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 12:02:41 PM)
From Football outsiders stats explained ... Power success measures the success of specific running plays rather than the distance. This number represents how often a running attempt on third or fourth down, with two yards or less to go, achieved a first down or touchdown. Since quarterback sneaks, unlike scrambles, are heavily dependent on the offensive line, this percentage does include runs by all players, not just running backs. This is the only stat given that includes quarterback runs. It is not adjusted based on game situation or opponent. Stuffed measures the percentage of runs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Vikings ranked 30th in Power success and 25th in the stuffed category. A step further Open Field Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained after the first 10 yards of each run. So for a 10-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 15-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, 70 yards are counted. This number gives you an idea of how much of a team's running game was based on the breakaway speed of the running backs. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work. This number is not adjusted in any way. Second Level Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. So for a five-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 10-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, still only five yards are counted. This number represents the midpoint between the contributions of a team's offensive line and its running back. A low ranking in Open Field Yards coupled with a high ranking in Second Level Yards indicates that the team's offensive line is opening holes, but its backs aren't proficient open-field runners. This number is not adjusted in any way Vikings ranked 9th Open field and 23rd second level. 23rd adjusted yards. Vikes ranked below average in second level yards but above avg in open field - below avg open field plus above avg second level indicates open holes but backs are missing them, is it safe to assume the opposite given the stuff and power rankings. Vikes were above avg open field and below avg second level. With a below avg adjusted line yards plus above avg open field it indicates a reliance on big plays from the RB. The stuffed ranking is interesting with NO, Rams, and NE ranked 1-2-4 respectively. Also indicates a lack of quality runs on first and second down leading to longer third down situations. Add to that a poor Power success. Maybe converting third downs is not all on the QB. Need scapegoats I submit the lack of running game was the biggest factor to the Vikings disappointing season. Complimenting Cousins with an above avg run game with Diggs/AT and who knows Two TEs and third WR ... sounds good to me. Tough to convert on third and 6 and above when the two WRs are doubled leaving Treadwell plus Rudy as the options. Rudy will catch it but not get there while Treadwell will get there but probably not catch it unless it lodges in his facemask. Of course the defenses were not worried about the RB who had to stay in and help block. Then again Bradbury is a rookie who has yet to prove anything. Kline is a free agent coming off a down year. How good is Elf? Reiff is solid but is he durable? Will Oneill build off of last year. What is the depth like? Many questions but improving the run game is the biggest factor towards improving on last season. The defense for the down year still was top ten scoring defense and fourth overall in yards given up.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 12:56:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn From Football outsiders stats explained ... Power success measures the success of specific running plays rather than the distance. This number represents how often a running attempt on third or fourth down, with two yards or less to go, achieved a first down or touchdown. Since quarterback sneaks, unlike scrambles, are heavily dependent on the offensive line, this percentage does include runs by all players, not just running backs. This is the only stat given that includes quarterback runs. It is not adjusted based on game situation or opponent. Stuffed measures the percentage of runs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Vikings ranked 30th in Power success and 25th in the stuffed category. A step further Open Field Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained after the first 10 yards of each run. So for a 10-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 15-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, 70 yards are counted. This number gives you an idea of how much of a team's running game was based on the breakaway speed of the running backs. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work. This number is not adjusted in any way. Second Level Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. So for a five-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 10-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, still only five yards are counted. This number represents the midpoint between the contributions of a team's offensive line and its running back. A low ranking in Open Field Yards coupled with a high ranking in Second Level Yards indicates that the team's offensive line is opening holes, but its backs aren't proficient open-field runners. This number is not adjusted in any way Vikings ranked 9th Open field and 23rd second level. 23rd adjusted yards. Vikes ranked below average in second level yards but above avg in open field - below avg open field plus above avg second level indicates open holes but backs are missing them, is it safe to assume the opposite given the stuff and power rankings. Vikes were above avg open field and below avg second level. With a below avg adjusted line yards plus above avg open field it indicates a reliance on big plays from the RB. The stuffed ranking is interesting with NO, Rams, and NE ranked 1-2-4 respectively. Also indicates a lack of quality runs on first and second down leading to longer third down situations. Add to that a poor Power success. Maybe converting third downs is not all on the QB. Need scapegoats I submit the lack of running game was the biggest factor to the Vikings disappointing season. Complimenting Cousins with an above avg run game with Diggs/AT and who knows Two TEs and third WR ... sounds good to me. Tough to convert on third and 6 and above when the two WRs are doubled leaving Treadwell plus Rudy as the options. Rudy will catch it but not get there while Treadwell will get there but probably not catch it unless it lodges in his facemask. Of course the defenses were not worried about the RB who had to stay in and help block. Then again Bradbury is a rookie who has yet to prove anything. Kline is a free agent coming off a down year. How good is Elf? Reiff is solid but is he durable? Will Oneill build off of last year. What is the depth like? Many questions but improving the run game is the biggest factor towards improving on last season. The defense for the down year still was top ten scoring defense and fourth overall in yards given up. That is a very strong post. I have gotten so tired of some of the meaningless stats that are thrown out to obviously support a specific point view (i am guilty) ... its great to swoop by the board and find something pertinent and not self-serving.

Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 3:38:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn From Football outsiders stats explained ... Power success measures the success of specific running plays rather than the distance. This number represents how often a running attempt on third or fourth down, with two yards or less to go, achieved a first down or touchdown. Since quarterback sneaks, unlike scrambles, are heavily dependent on the offensive line, this percentage does include runs by all players, not just running backs. This is the only stat given that includes quarterback runs. It is not adjusted based on game situation or opponent. Stuffed measures the percentage of runs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Vikings ranked 30th in Power success and 25th in the stuffed category. A step further Open Field Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained after the first 10 yards of each run. So for a 10-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 15-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, 70 yards are counted. This number gives you an idea of how much of a team's running game was based on the breakaway speed of the running backs. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work. This number is not adjusted in any way. Second Level Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. So for a five-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 10-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, still only five yards are counted. This number represents the midpoint between the contributions of a team's offensive line and its running back. A low ranking in Open Field Yards coupled with a high ranking in Second Level Yards indicates that the team's offensive line is opening holes, but its backs aren't proficient open-field runners. This number is not adjusted in any way Vikings ranked 9th Open field and 23rd second level. 23rd adjusted yards. Vikes ranked below average in second level yards but above avg in open field - below avg open field plus above avg second level indicates open holes but backs are missing them, is it safe to assume the opposite given the stuff and power rankings. Vikes were above avg open field and below avg second level. With a below avg adjusted line yards plus above avg open field it indicates a reliance on big plays from the RB. The stuffed ranking is interesting with NO, Rams, and NE ranked 1-2-4 respectively. Also indicates a lack of quality runs on first and second down leading to longer third down situations. Add to that a poor Power success. Maybe converting third downs is not all on the QB. Need scapegoats I submit the lack of running game was the biggest factor to the Vikings disappointing season. Complimenting Cousins with an above avg run game with Diggs/AT and who knows Two TEs and third WR ... sounds good to me. Tough to convert on third and 6 and above when the two WRs are doubled leaving Treadwell plus Rudy as the options. Rudy will catch it but not get there while Treadwell will get there but probably not catch it unless it lodges in his facemask. Of course the defenses were not worried about the RB who had to stay in and help block. Then again Bradbury is a rookie who has yet to prove anything. Kline is a free agent coming off a down year. How good is Elf? Reiff is solid but is he durable? Will Oneill build off of last year. What is the depth like? Many questions but improving the run game is the biggest factor towards improving on last season. The defense for the down year still was top ten scoring defense and fourth overall in yards given up. Terrific post Jason.... Scheme had quite a bit to do with the previous year where we were actually pretty good at running the ball with a less then stellar OLine. All of us should be excited about the Kubiak/ Dennison combo. If this duo can’t springboard our running game/ Dalvin Cook into stardom it may not be in the cards.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 4:47:13 PM)
It points out another reason why it was so important to the Vikings to select Mattison before Samia. I've been wondering about that since the draft.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 6:24:00 PM)
Ok Statman Jason, how did the run game do, and how did it rank if you just look at the 1st half of games ? How did Kirk do on 3rd downs in the 1st half of games ? Your post is completely meaniningless if you don't isolate the 1st half. And then, compare that to 1st down conversions in the 1st half for Bridgewater and Keenum, and also run game rankings for the 1st half with Kirk, and run game rankings for the 1st half with Bridgewater and Keenum.

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 6:30:08 PM)
Cousins usually had the Vikings behind, so in the 4th quarter it was harder on the Vikings' defense and run game, and it's also probably harder to convert short yardage when you are behind. I would be happy if the stats support the idea that Cousins can be clutch when the game is on the line, that he is good at making quick decisions at that time. It would also be surprising. I like what Mattison shows on film for picking up short yardage, and he seems very fluid on screens. It seems like his mind works quickly.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 6:57:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty Ok Statman Jason, how did the run game do, and how did it rank if you just look at the 1st half of games ? How did Kirk do on 3rd downs in the 1st half of games ? Your post is completely meaniningless if you don't isolate the 1st half. And then, compare that to 1st down conversions in the 1st half for Bridgewater and Keenum, and also run game rankings for the 1st half with Kirk, and run game rankings for the 1st half with Bridgewater and Keenum. Why don't you do some research on your own? Any comparison to Bridgewater and Keenum is comparing apples and oranges; unless you can compare SOS/defensive rankings. And adjust for blocking ratings. There's also no way to quantify OC and scheme influence. Vikings were one of the worst at converting short down and distance. Started in the preseason game vs Denver and carried throughout the season. This after being one of the best in 2017. That has a pretty big impact on extending drives.

Dana Turner -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 7:39:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn From Football outsiders stats explained ... Power success measures the success of specific running plays rather than the distance. This number represents how often a running attempt on third or fourth down, with two yards or less to go, achieved a first down or touchdown. Since quarterback sneaks, unlike scrambles, are heavily dependent on the offensive line, this percentage does include runs by all players, not just running backs. This is the only stat given that includes quarterback runs. It is not adjusted based on game situation or opponent. Stuffed measures the percentage of runs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Vikings ranked 30th in Power success and 25th in the stuffed category. A step further Open Field Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained after the first 10 yards of each run. So for a 10-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 15-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, 70 yards are counted. This number gives you an idea of how much of a team's running game was based on the breakaway speed of the running backs. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work. This number is not adjusted in any way. Second Level Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. So for a five-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 10-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, still only five yards are counted. This number represents the midpoint between the contributions of a team's offensive line and its running back. A low ranking in Open Field Yards coupled with a high ranking in Second Level Yards indicates that the team's offensive line is opening holes, but its backs aren't proficient open-field runners. This number is not adjusted in any way Vikings ranked 9th Open field and 23rd second level. 23rd adjusted yards. Vikes ranked below average in second level yards but above avg in open field - below avg open field plus above avg second level indicates open holes but backs are missing them, is it safe to assume the opposite given the stuff and power rankings. Vikes were above avg open field and below avg second level. With a below avg adjusted line yards plus above avg open field it indicates a reliance on big plays from the RB. The stuffed ranking is interesting with NO, Rams, and NE ranked 1-2-4 respectively. Also indicates a lack of quality runs on first and second down leading to longer third down situations. Add to that a poor Power success. Maybe converting third downs is not all on the QB. Need scapegoats I submit the lack of running game was the biggest factor to the Vikings disappointing season. Complimenting Cousins with an above avg run game with Diggs/AT and who knows Two TEs and third WR ... sounds good to me. Tough to convert on third and 6 and above when the two WRs are doubled leaving Treadwell plus Rudy as the options. Rudy will catch it but not get there while Treadwell will get there but probably not catch it unless it lodges in his facemask. Of course the defenses were not worried about the RB who had to stay in and help block. Then again Bradbury is a rookie who has yet to prove anything. Kline is a free agent coming off a down year. How good is Elf? Reiff is solid but is he durable? Will Oneill build off of last year. What is the depth like? Many questions but improving the run game is the biggest factor towards improving on last season. The defense for the down year still was top ten scoring defense and fourth overall in yards given up. Terrific post Jason.... Scheme had quite a bit to do with the previous year where we were actually pretty good at running the ball with a less then stellar OLine. All of us should be excited about the Kubiak/ Dennison combo. If this duo can’t springboard our running game/ Dalvin Cook into stardom it may not be in the cards. Yes, I echo this sentiment, nice post and excellent facts to back up your point. I am a huge fan of the running game, many discount it, but it's a proven every year that teams that can run the ball are the more successful teams. Sure, it helps to have a great QB like Tome Brady, that's easy, but we've seen mid to top tier QB's be successful in this league with solid running games. Christen Ponder had a successful year with a great running game, it's just the way the game is structured. Sure, there are inventive passing schemes that get the most out of their QB's abilities, but nothing beats pounding on a defense, going forward and leaning on guys play in and play out. I'm hoping this offensive line can play up to the hype that's started, it looks the part and a few things need to come together, but if it does, the Vikings will be well on the way to a much better balanced offense, Cousins should be a better QB with that!

marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 7:59:23 PM)
The post means diddly squat if it doesn't look at what the offense did with Kirk in the 1st half. I don't really know how to find stats that isolate the 1st half, not sure if they are even available. It might take a lot of work, and then there are a lot of other factors to consider. I wonder how Cousins did in 1st halves against quality opposition when he played in Washington ? Was Washington also poor on 3rd and short ? Is Cousins the common denominator in his teams' defenses playing poorly, offenses not getting early leads, and short yardage not executing ?

Jason Dorn -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 8:12:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty Ok Statman Jason, how did the run game do, and how did it rank if you just look at the 1st half of games ? How did Kirk do on 3rd downs in the 1st half of games ? Your post is completely meaniningless if you don't isolate the 1st half. And then, compare that to 1st down conversions in the 1st half for Bridgewater and Keenum, and also run game rankings for the 1st half with Kirk, and run game rankings for the 1st half with Bridgewater and Keenum. You tell me when you are the one putting it all on Cousins- prove it otherwise it is just "meaningless". Calling me stat man ha - only shows you are unwilling to do any work other than throw out blanket statements. Again you want to call the Vikings QB out at least do some digging rather than just go stating its the QBs fault for not converting more third downs. I do not disagree with you about moving the chains, pretty sure the Vikings don't either. YOU are the one asserting it is because of the QB and it is just not as simple as that. I provided stats to backup what I saw - a run game that was inconsistent and struggled attaining first downs on 3rd and short. It struggled gaining consistent yardage on first down putting the offense at a disadvantage. NO, NE, The Rams all did pretty well with the stuffed factor- meaning they were gaining positive yardage on their rush plays. It states what I saw from the Vikings no push and a loss at the point of attack. Is it not better to consistently gain yardage in chunks of 3,4,5,6,7 rather then 15 plus 1,0,-1,-2,. Might it be better to have 15 runs of 3 plus each play rather than 15 runs that equate to the same average only 12 of them are 2 or less? Can Kirk do better on third down- everyone can do better thinking otherwise is arrogant. Lets take your Kirk is not clutch statement. QBR does have a clutch factor within it. Kirk finished 16th or average in QBR. Maybe improvement in this area of the analytic might help that number go up. Perhaps what you state is somewhat true. http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins Scroll down and find out what Cousins did on third down with distance. 3rd and less than 5 versus 3rd and greater than 6 is quite a contrast with completion percentage and passer rating. Indicates that getting behind the chains is a major factor concerning 3rd down conversion rate. Going back to my argument that the Rush game struggled gaining yards consistently I assert the Vikings rush game was the main factor in the third down conversion rate when they rank 30th in the power category which measures the ability to convert running the ball on 3rd/4th down and less than 2. 9 rush TDs does not mean anything to you???????????????????? As for your claim Kirk is not clutch. Frankly was pissed after the Chicago game, thought the offense blew it at Soldier field. Thought Kirk stunk against Seattle. Saw him stink against Buffalo. The reality is the entire offense stunk in those games. Against Buffalo the Vikings ran the ball 6 times. Yes I think he can step up and perform better against top defenses but its not like he has been with the same team and coaches for years such as Brees or Brady. Nor did he have the balance those QBs have on offense. Kirk wont do it alone. Then again the defense was smoked in LA and I felt needed to have a better game against Chicago to close the season. I get it you are expecting Kirk to be Tom Brady and need to find a scapegoat for the offensive struggles. Unrealistic and exactly a pitfall the Vikings brass had to avoid and frankly made steps towards. Kubiak has always had good running offenses. He brought an experienced OL coach with him. Sporano was a proficient coach with running schemes- the Vikings had two assistants running the OL after losing him suddenly (RIP Coach Sporano). Everyone had the highest expectations going into last season which came crashing down. The reality is the 2018 Vikings just were not as good as 2017. They did not run the ball as well. They did not stop the run as well. They did not convert on third down nor stop it as well ( though I think on defense they still ranked high). Scored less points and gave up more. turnover margin was average and not a Championship level. I believe the Vikings recognized this and have taken steps towards improving the efficiency on offense with the expectation the defense returns to form. Agree the defense will wear down without TOP on offense. The Vikings are built to take the lead. Kirk needs to make the plays when playing from behind. All I got is hope for the upcoming season and appreciate the direction the Vikings have taken with regard to re-tooling the offense. Zimmer built his team on defense and they are the strength. Cousins is hardly a slouch at QB and had some very good games last year such as against GB and the loss to the Rams. I think he along with the entire team is better with improved efficiency running the football.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 9:03:21 PM)
2015, 2016 Cousins was 6th in QBR. Evidence that he can be productive/clutch.

ebergste -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 10:44:35 PM)
This article supports the need for a speed tight end. It also has fairly damning praise for Rudolph. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/29/nfl-all-slow-team-combine-40-times-tom-brady-leveon-bell-deandre-hopkins

JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 11:21:14 PM)
Marty stopped being mildly entertaining and turned into that other idiot.

JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 11:30:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ebergste This article supports the need for a speed tight end. It also has fairly damning praise for Rudolph. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/29/nfl-all-slow-team-combine-40-times-tom-brady-leveon-bell-deandre-hopkins I've been singing that song for five years. It is not necessarily about the statistical, quantifiable production of your TE. A TE that gets behind the linebackers, runs downfield routes, opens up your entire offense. If you don't have a TE that does that, defenses are free to double your best WR. Clear a little space for that dump off to the RB.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/1/2019 11:41:58 PM)
On one hand it's true that Cousins did well considering his duress, but I think he would be the first one to say that he's not happy with his performance in big games and at big moments. It's a team game, so the team shares that record of deficiency. They are making a good faith effort to give him better support this season. If he continues to fall short as the team's quarterback and team leader, then it would be fair to assess him as a flawed quarterback who lacks the mental toughness to lead a championship team. This is the season for no excuses.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 4:14:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marty The post means diddly squat if it doesn't look at what the offense did with Kirk in the 1st half. I don't really know how to find stats that isolate the 1st half, not sure if they are even available. It might take a lot of work, and then there are a lot of other factors to consider. I wonder how Cousins did in 1st halves against quality opposition when he played in Washington ? Was Washington also poor on 3rd and short ? Is Cousins the common denominator in his teams' defenses playing poorly, offenses not getting early leads, and short yardage not executing ? Marty your whole first half isolation theory means diddly squat unless YOU can find stats to back it up.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 5:04:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dana Turner quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn From Football outsiders stats explained ... Power success measures the success of specific running plays rather than the distance. This number represents how often a running attempt on third or fourth down, with two yards or less to go, achieved a first down or touchdown. Since quarterback sneaks, unlike scrambles, are heavily dependent on the offensive line, this percentage does include runs by all players, not just running backs. This is the only stat given that includes quarterback runs. It is not adjusted based on game situation or opponent. Stuffed measures the percentage of runs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Vikings ranked 30th in Power success and 25th in the stuffed category. A step further Open Field Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained after the first 10 yards of each run. So for a 10-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 15-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, 70 yards are counted. This number gives you an idea of how much of a team's running game was based on the breakaway speed of the running backs. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work. This number is not adjusted in any way. Second Level Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. So for a five-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 10-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, still only five yards are counted. This number represents the midpoint between the contributions of a team's offensive line and its running back. A low ranking in Open Field Yards coupled with a high ranking in Second Level Yards indicates that the team's offensive line is opening holes, but its backs aren't proficient open-field runners. This number is not adjusted in any way Vikings ranked 9th Open field and 23rd second level. 23rd adjusted yards. Vikes ranked below average in second level yards but above avg in open field - below avg open field plus above avg second level indicates open holes but backs are missing them, is it safe to assume the opposite given the stuff and power rankings. Vikes were above avg open field and below avg second level. With a below avg adjusted line yards plus above avg open field it indicates a reliance on big plays from the RB. The stuffed ranking is interesting with NO, Rams, and NE ranked 1-2-4 respectively. Also indicates a lack of quality runs on first and second down leading to longer third down situations. Add to that a poor Power success. Maybe converting third downs is not all on the QB. Need scapegoats I submit the lack of running game was the biggest factor to the Vikings disappointing season. Complimenting Cousins with an above avg run game with Diggs/AT and who knows Two TEs and third WR ... sounds good to me. Tough to convert on third and 6 and above when the two WRs are doubled leaving Treadwell plus Rudy as the options. Rudy will catch it but not get there while Treadwell will get there but probably not catch it unless it lodges in his facemask. Of course the defenses were not worried about the RB who had to stay in and help block. Then again Bradbury is a rookie who has yet to prove anything. Kline is a free agent coming off a down year. How good is Elf? Reiff is solid but is he durable? Will Oneill build off of last year. What is the depth like? Many questions but improving the run game is the biggest factor towards improving on last season. The defense for the down year still was top ten scoring defense and fourth overall in yards given up. Terrific post Jason.... Scheme had quite a bit to do with the previous year where we were actually pretty good at running the ball with a less then stellar OLine. All of us should be excited about the Kubiak/ Dennison combo. If this duo can’t springboard our running game/ Dalvin Cook into stardom it may not be in the cards. Yes, I echo this sentiment, nice post and excellent facts to back up your point. I am a huge fan of the running game, many discount it, but it's a proven every year that teams that can run the ball are the more successful teams. Sure, it helps to have a great QB like Tome Brady, that's easy, but we've seen mid to top tier QB's be successful in this league with solid running games. Christen Ponder had a successful year with a great running game, it's just the way the game is structured. Sure, there are inventive passing schemes that get the most out of their QB's abilities, but nothing beats pounding on a defense, going forward and leaning on guys play in and play out. I'm hoping this offensive line can play up to the hype that's started, it looks the part and a few things need to come together, but if it does, the Vikings will be well on the way to a much better balanced offense, Cousins should be a better QB with that! That's not true. It's proven every year that the more successful teams are able to run the ball. It seems like the same thing but it's not. Winning teams are able to run the ball. Running teams don't win.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 5:28:06 AM)
I believe very few successful teams are unable to run the ball when they need to.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 8:33:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Dana Turner quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: Jason Dorn From Football outsiders stats explained ... Power success measures the success of specific running plays rather than the distance. This number represents how often a running attempt on third or fourth down, with two yards or less to go, achieved a first down or touchdown. Since quarterback sneaks, unlike scrambles, are heavily dependent on the offensive line, this percentage does include runs by all players, not just running backs. This is the only stat given that includes quarterback runs. It is not adjusted based on game situation or opponent. Stuffed measures the percentage of runs that are stopped at or before the line of scrimmage. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Vikings ranked 30th in Power success and 25th in the stuffed category. A step further Open Field Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained after the first 10 yards of each run. So for a 10-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 15-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, 70 yards are counted. This number gives you an idea of how much of a team's running game was based on the breakaway speed of the running backs. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in Open Field Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work. This number is not adjusted in any way. Second Level Yards gives the portion of the team's rushing average gained 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage. So for a five-yard run, no yards are counted; for a 10-yard run, five yards are counted; for an 80-yard run, still only five yards are counted. This number represents the midpoint between the contributions of a team's offensive line and its running back. A low ranking in Open Field Yards coupled with a high ranking in Second Level Yards indicates that the team's offensive line is opening holes, but its backs aren't proficient open-field runners. This number is not adjusted in any way Vikings ranked 9th Open field and 23rd second level. 23rd adjusted yards. Vikes ranked below average in second level yards but above avg in open field - below avg open field plus above avg second level indicates open holes but backs are missing them, is it safe to assume the opposite given the stuff and power rankings. Vikes were above avg open field and below avg second level. With a below avg adjusted line yards plus above avg open field it indicates a reliance on big plays from the RB. The stuffed ranking is interesting with NO, Rams, and NE ranked 1-2-4 respectively. Also indicates a lack of quality runs on first and second down leading to longer third down situations. Add to that a poor Power success. Maybe converting third downs is not all on the QB. Need scapegoats I submit the lack of running game was the biggest factor to the Vikings disappointing season. Complimenting Cousins with an above avg run game with Diggs/AT and who knows Two TEs and third WR ... sounds good to me. Tough to convert on third and 6 and above when the two WRs are doubled leaving Treadwell plus Rudy as the options. Rudy will catch it but not get there while Treadwell will get there but probably not catch it unless it lodges in his facemask. Of course the defenses were not worried about the RB who had to stay in and help block. Then again Bradbury is a rookie who has yet to prove anything. Kline is a free agent coming off a down year. How good is Elf? Reiff is solid but is he durable? Will Oneill build off of last year. What is the depth like? Many questions but improving the run game is the biggest factor towards improving on last season. The defense for the down year still was top ten scoring defense and fourth overall in yards given up. Terrific post Jason.... Scheme had quite a bit to do with the previous year where we were actually pretty good at running the ball with a less then stellar OLine. All of us should be excited about the Kubiak/ Dennison combo. If this duo can’t springboard our running game/ Dalvin Cook into stardom it may not be in the cards. Yes, I echo this sentiment, nice post and excellent facts to back up your point. I am a huge fan of the running game, many discount it, but it's a proven every year that teams that can run the ball are the more successful teams. Sure, it helps to have a great QB like Tome Brady, that's easy, but we've seen mid to top tier QB's be successful in this league with solid running games. Christen Ponder had a successful year with a great running game, it's just the way the game is structured. Sure, there are inventive passing schemes that get the most out of their QB's abilities, but nothing beats pounding on a defense, going forward and leaning on guys play in and play out. I'm hoping this offensive line can play up to the hype that's started, it looks the part and a few things need to come together, but if it does, the Vikings will be well on the way to a much better balanced offense, Cousins should be a better QB with that! That's not true. It's proven every year that the more successful teams are able to run the ball. It seems like the same thing but it's not. Winning teams are able to run the ball. Running teams don't win. I don't think it's an either./or thing. I think you're right, David, in that a team doing right wrt TO battle, a competent D, solid special teams and coaching can be winning and therefor running to play it safe and do well statistically so in a box someone can say; see running ='s winning. I also think if you CAN dictate a game by running successfully that can also be the reason for being a winning team. I don't think you can be 3 yards in a cloud of dust old school type of running team but I also believe if you can't pack you're running game up on the road or use it when the conditions are poor then you are not going to win a lot in the playoffs.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 8:54:35 AM)
Running teams don't win. Simply not true. Sea is proof of that. Fixed their oline and got back to what they did appearing in back to back SB's. Fell short this year but did make the playoffs when they were not expected to do much.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 9:41:30 AM)
The first question to ask is what defines a 'good' running team. It certainly is far more than average ypg or ypc, those are 60's stats. Jason's post goes a long way towards this, modern day elements if you will. I would overlay those elements with how consistent they occur and/or toss the extreme outliers (ex. stats derived from our 200+ yard game vs. Miami last year).

Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 10:02:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 Marty stopped being mildly entertaining and turned into that other idiot. Can one allow themselves to be an idiot?

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 10:03:19 AM)
I don't remember if this was reported here, but Paton didn't interview with the Jets. Vikings assistant GM George Paton declined to interview for the Jets' open general manager position. Paton has been linked with several jobs over the past couple seasons, but he has either declined interview requests or been blocked by the Vikings. Eagles VP of player personnel Joe Douglas is the favorite for the Jets job. Related: New York Jets Source: Connor Hughes on Twitter May 30, 2019, 10:45 AM ET

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 10:04:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kurt bilben quote: ORIGINAL: JT2 Marty stopped being mildly entertaining and turned into that other idiot. Can one allow themselves to be an idiot? LOL I guess if they can allow themselves to be injured the sky is the limit.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/2/2019 10:06:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: marty The post means diddly squat if it doesn't look at what the offense did with Kirk in the 1st half. I don't really know how to find stats that isolate the 1st half, not sure if they are even available. It might take a lot of work, and then there are a lot of other factors to consider. I wonder how Cousins did in 1st halves against quality opposition when he played in Washington ? Was Washington also poor on 3rd and short ? Is Cousins the common denominator in his teams' defenses playing poorly, offenses not getting early leads, and short yardage not executing ? Marty your whole first half isolation theory means diddly squat unless YOU can find stats to back it up. Exactly. To dis a well researched and informative post by Jason at least back it up with some research of your own.

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