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Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 7:33:37 AM)

Brutal NFL Cheap Shots!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxO-rzJOF1Y



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 7:40:52 AM)

Buddy Ryan's ill-advised bounty on Lawrence Taylor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y7QTvNAwms

Seeing this old footage was kind of cool.



Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 10:04:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
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both these guys should be fired immediately...40 yards of 'fools' gold....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Both Trae Waynes and Jeff Badet lost in the first round tonight. They had bad starts in their races.

Didn't see it but read Waynes slipped and just shut it down knowing he had no margin for error.

So he even gets out of position and has to recover in a straight line run?[:D]



joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 1:27:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
both these guys should be fired immediately...40 yards of 'fools' gold....


Chris Tomasson@christomasson
Both Trae Waynes and Jeff Badet lost in the first round tonight. They had bad starts in their races.

Didn't see it but read Waynes slipped and just shut it down knowing he had no margin for error.

So he even gets out of position and has to recover in a straight line run?[:D]


ZING!



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 2:57:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Maybe he has figured out the "knuckle ball" snap. I don't see the why it's so hard to believe that someone may have advanced the science of the long snap. Many long snappers in the NFL are not that experienced at long snapping the ball, it's a skill they have added to earn themselves a spot on an NFL roster, or maybe help them cement a backup spot. Someone who has invested significantly more perfecting the skill, with the specific goal of getting the ball to the holder with the laces in the right spot, I don't see why it is impossible that guy would be better at it than others.


Investing significantly more, be it in terms of time, is flawed reasoning. Of all his competitors, he singularly - at least on the surface - has likely had the least amount of time to work on snapping the past four years.


Not sure how much "free" time students at the Air Force Academy have on a daily basis. I'm guessing it's different from Marine Corps boot camp. Are you saying he wouldn't be able to cut out, say, 2 hours a day? Outside of regular football practice? Seems to me if he wanted to, he would have enough "time" available to him to put in the extra work.


You post about investing (time) to "perfecting the skill". Two hours? Maybe, as an upperclassmen. Although that doesn't sound like enough time to be so revolutionary. His time is immaterial though since his competitors likely have more available time.

Simply put, you picked the wrong 'college' to suggest a player has extra time to perfect a skill.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 3:00:28 PM)

It's akin to saying someone at UMass has put in the extra time to develop the perfect southern twang.



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 7:51:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Maybe he has figured out the "knuckle ball" snap. I don't see the why it's so hard to believe that someone may have advanced the science of the long snap. Many long snappers in the NFL are not that experienced at long snapping the ball, it's a skill they have added to earn themselves a spot on an NFL roster, or maybe help them cement a backup spot. Someone who has invested significantly more perfecting the skill, with the specific goal of getting the ball to the holder with the laces in the right spot, I don't see why it is impossible that guy would be better at it than others.


Investing significantly more, be it in terms of time, is flawed reasoning. Of all his competitors, he singularly - at least on the surface - has likely had the least amount of time to work on snapping the past four years.


Not sure how much "free" time students at the Air Force Academy have on a daily basis. I'm guessing it's different from Marine Corps boot camp. Are you saying he wouldn't be able to cut out, say, 2 hours a day? Outside of regular football practice? Seems to me if he wanted to, he would have enough "time" available to him to put in the extra work.


You post about investing (time) to "perfecting the skill". Two hours? Maybe, as an upperclassmen. Although that doesn't sound like enough time to be so revolutionary. His time is immaterial though since his competitors likely have more available time.

Simply put, you picked the wrong 'college' to suggest a player has extra time to perfect a skill.


Actually the "extra time" "or lack thereof" at a "college" "in the last four years" was your contention, and only tangentially related to my original post.

They got a decent Physics program at the Air Force Academy? Maybe he was able to combine some classroom time on the physics of the long snap, AND was able put in extra time practicing it under the guise of "research". Yeah, sure, that's the ticket!



JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 10:43:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

You think it's more likely that the holder can pick up the rotation of the ball and catch and place it with the laces the right way? Nope. All on the LS.

I bet the LS starts with the laces where he wants and sends the ball perfectly. It's his gift.


You really think a long snapper can deliver a snap exactly to his target with 100% accuracy where the laces will land in the holder's hands? Absurd. You really think it's more difficult to track the ball, see the big fat laces, catch it and position it correctly before you put it down?
So, we have a long snapper that can not only hit a bulls eye from 22 feet, he can deliver it the exact same way every single time?

You ever play baseball? Picking up the seams, of a ball traveling with much more velocity, is a huge part of what makes a hitter good.

Many basketball players, shooters, prefer to have the channels of the ball horizontal when they shoot. Often times they don't have the time to make that adjustment.

I was a circus clown compared to today's NBA players, but I was fantastic at reading the channels and catching the pass, especially a bounce pass, in a way in which I had it ready to shoot, channels horizontal so I could get that extra fingerpoint pressure on the release. I learned that skill from baseball, trying to hit, reading pitches, and small seams.

You think it's plausible that a long snapper can hit a target from 20+ feet and know what position the laces are going to arrive at?

You would think QB's could do that too, wouldn't you?

I heard that Julian Edelman prefers to catch the ball laces down, so Tom Brady does that.
Gronkowski liked the laces at 10 O'Clock pm (okay, the pm part is pretty funny even if you don't like the post). Patterson said, "why are you talking about my laces".

You really, seriously think a person could snap a ball for a FG attempt and predict exactly what position the laces are in when they hit the target?

We're not seeing any mythical stories about his ability to hit the target dead on to the punter. I guess his super powers only extend to 8 yards.

Probably the second best venue in all of college football for kicking and punting. How have they fared with Cutting?

I guess they just couldn't take advantage of somebody so ahead of his time.



JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 11:08:10 PM)

Tomorrow's headline: Austin Cutting to become the Vikings shotgun Center. His ability to deliver the ball with precision accuracy must be fully utilized.

If they're smart, they are working on a system where Cutting snaps the ball directly to Cousin's right hand, while it's already cocked and loaded. It lands in his hand exactly how he wants it. Hell, we don't even need pass protection. We have the world's best long snapper ever.

Hey, not just shotgun offense, why not utilize his uncanny accuracy to hit WR's in motion? Not just hit him, but deliver it exactly how they want it. Seams up, bitch. Or down. However you want it.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 11:18:42 PM)

quote:

You ever play baseball? Picking up the seams, of a ball traveling with much more velocity, is a huge part of what makes a hitter good.


Preposterous.

quote:

100%. Every single time.


No one ever said that.



JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (6/30/2019 11:37:11 PM)

"The holder never once rotated the ball."
Never once seems, or should I say seams, like 0%/100%. There was no nuance. So, yes, somebody did say that.

You think that's all on the "gift" of the long snapper?

Explain your "preposterous" response to my baseball analogy, if you would be so kind. I have a strong feeling you will not expand on that.

You're digging in hard on a nonsensical position.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 12:12:42 AM)

Terry also noted that one time he noticed the laces where placed wrong just that he never observed the holder rotating the ball therefore <100% on a quick observation.

Baseball hitters can't pick up the seams nor can a holder pluck a ball out of the air at the right time based on seam observation.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 12:18:06 AM)

"Nonsensical position"

Just ignore the video of the guy doing it.



Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 12:33:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Tomorrow's headline: Austin Cutting to become the Vikings shotgun Center. His ability to deliver the ball with precision accuracy must be fully utilized.

If they're smart, they are working on a system where Cutting snaps the ball directly to Cousin's right hand, while it's already cocked and loaded. It lands in his hand exactly how he wants it. Hell, we don't even need pass protection. We have the world's best long snapper ever.

Hey, not just shotgun offense, why not utilize his uncanny accuracy to hit WR's in motion? Not just hit him, but deliver it exactly how they want it. Seams up, bitch. Or down. However you want it.



[&:][&:][&:]



JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 1:36:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Terry also noted that one time he noticed the laces where placed wrong just that he never observed the holder rotating the ball therefore <100% on a quick observation.

Baseball hitters can't pick up the seams nor can a holder pluck a ball out of the air at the right time based on seam observation.


You're foolish, and obviously never hit a baseball well.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 3:56:05 AM)

Yeah, good call/memory there.

I hit a home run out of the oldest ball park in north america (Labatt's Park) straight away center field when I was 16.

I just wanted to douche it up by saying something wasn't possible like you were.



JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 4:03:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Yeah, good call/memory there.

I hit a home run out of the oldest ball park in north america (Labatt's Park) straight away center field when I was 16.

I just wanted to douche it up by saying something wasn't possible like you were.



Well, I had no idea. That certainly settles it. My apologies.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 4:54:06 AM)

I've spoke of it here and with you when we used to talk on the phone.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 10:03:02 AM)

Let's take informal poll. Assuming it can be done intentionally, which do you believe is more reasonable:

A - snapping the exact rotation to the same distance every time putting the laces in an area to be spotted without having to rotate the ball

B - seeing the rotation and grasping the ball at the exact moment needed to spot the ball without having to rotate it

I say A

- and I say that not convinced that it's possible (of course I haven't watch the video yet)



TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 10:33:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Let's take informal poll. Assuming it can be done intentionally, which do you believe is more reasonable:

A - snapping the exact rotation to the same distance every time putting the laces in an area to be spotted without having to rotate the ball

B - seeing the rotation and grasping the ball at the exact moment needed to spot the ball without having to rotate it

I say A

- and I say that not convinced that it's possible (of course I haven't watch the video yet)


I'm just amazed that they can't come up with a ball to be used for kicking that has no laces, making the whole argument moot.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 10:46:52 AM)

You know what I think is a great sign that the Vikings could be very good/special?

We're arguing/debating about a longsnappers skills in here.

Most of the rest of the team is of less concern at this point.

I know the Oline WRs, DBs DT etc, but it seems like we have good options to answer a lot of those questions.

I just love that the intense debate in here is over a longsnappers ability to deliver a ball well to the holder/punter.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 11:09:38 AM)

Also, that we are free to do so because their is no BS going on with the team.



Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 11:14:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Also, that we are free to do so because their is no BS going on with the team.


Hear Hear



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 11:15:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Let's take informal poll. Assuming it can be done intentionally, which do you believe is more reasonable:

A - snapping the exact rotation to the same distance every time putting the laces in an area to be spotted without having to rotate the ball

B - seeing the rotation and grasping the ball at the exact moment needed to spot the ball without having to rotate it

I say A

- and I say that not convinced that it's possible (of course I haven't watch the video yet)


I'd say A is more likely, but I believe it would involve a snap with minimal/controlled rotation, curiously making B more likely/possible than would otherwise be the case.



Terry Stoneberg -> RE: General Vikes Talk (7/1/2019 1:15:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

I'm leaning really hard towards giving the holder more credit in terms of not having to spin the laces forward. How can the LS get credit for what the ball does AFTER it hits the holders hands?

The LS gets it there quick and tight. That's good. The other stuff is nonsense. You really think a LS can a deliver the ball to the holder the exact same way every time, laces up?

"The holder never once rotated the ball."


Prior to watching the video I would have heartily agreed with you. Did you actually watch the video or are you shooting from the hip?

Here's the video (presumably of all the FG and PAT attempts for 3 or 4 games...maybe the whole season, I didn't research that far.)

https://youtu.be/pI0CmocvSHM

I'm the one who said the holder never rotated the ball. Tell me the minutes and seconds into the video where that is not true. Tell me the minutes and seconds where you can see the holder make any adjustment at all to his catch to get the laces right. Tell me the minutes and seconds where the laces are placed incorrectly (I see only one at 13:35). Several I cannot see. A few I can and they all look right to me except that one.

I respect your opinion, but I have to confess I'd respect it a lot more if you could tell me the places in the video where I'm wrong and you see an alternative explanation.

You can believe what you want but for me I'm sticking with the fact that I've never seen anyone snap that consistently, HS, college or pro. I've never seen anyone snap such that the holder doesn't even try to rotate the ball. I'm really glad we got him. I won't be surprised if he becomes the Ray Guy of long snappers.



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