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Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 5:15:09 AM)

Time for Zimmer to lose the chip on his shoulder. He hasn't accomplished shit. 5 years that ended in a thunk of one fashion or another. The latest being a giant turd of failed expectations. Great defensive mind that has used a ton of top draft stock for defense all to leave then feeling over coached in the end and under performing. Cries about running the ball but neglected the line.

He takes too many shots at people and players for a guy that has one playoff win as a coach and it took a miracle play to get it.

If we turn it around and save his job that will be fine with me...but if we thunk again what a waste the last half dozen years will be.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 6:05:16 AM)

No playoff wins as a DC in Dallas. None as a DC in Cinci. One as HC on a miracle play. Yeah, time to lose the chip.

SB or bust. I see bust.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 6:19:11 AM)

When Dallas was potentially lining up for an onside kick, but kicked away, they flashed the season success rate...what was it, 4% or 8% ? Either way I knew it was down. Isn't generally somewhere in the low to mid 20's as a probability %? Wonder why it's so down this year.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 7:14:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

When Dallas was potentially lining up for an onside kick, but kicked away, they flashed the season success rate...what was it, 4% or 8% ? Either way I knew it was down. Isn't generally somewhere in the low to mid 20's as a probability %? Wonder why it's so down this year.


With the new rule keeping the kicking team from getting a running start it's too hard to get down there and blast the guy trying to field the ball.



Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 8:13:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

When Dallas was potentially lining up for an onside kick, but kicked away, they flashed the season success rate...what was it, 4% or 8% ? Either way I knew it was down. Isn't generally somewhere in the low to mid 20's as a probability %? Wonder why it's so down this year.


With the new rule keeping the kicking team from getting a running start it's too hard to get down there and blast the guy trying to field the ball.


Yeah, after watching clips it is clear they are just getting there with the head start. Guess I always gave too much credit to the skilled pop up by the kicker.



samwell711r -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 8:46:36 AM)

FWIW Zimmer does have a ring. With the cowboys as a dB coach. I'm disappointed too,of course. Some of what's happened is some really bad luck,:Losing a starting QB and a starting Rb two years in a row, Some of the blame on Spielman for sure, and of course he carries his share of blame. But, I do like the culture he's instilled here, and I am more than willing to give him one last year to prove it.



samwell711r -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 8:57:34 AM)

By the way I'm not exactly a newbie. Been here every single day (Eh mostly) since the Star Tribune days. Even posted occasionally. But trying to recover a username/password proved beyond my wretched ability to do. Re registry seemed the easier path. I identify as a Viking fan firstly and powerfully. Redsox fan next. And yeah I live here in MA, so I like the Pats too. My backup team.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 9:23:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.

Saffold (30 ) appears to be the best UFA G this off-season

My guess it will take 4-5 year contract north of 50ml to land him



Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 9:34:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.

Saffold (30 ) appears to be the best UFA G this off-season

My guess it will take 4-5 year contract north of 50ml to land him


That's doable.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 9:37:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.

Saffold (30 ) appears to be the best UFA G this off-season

My guess it will take 4-5 year contract north of 50ml to land him


That's doable.

This where not drafting a Daniels or a Whitehair gets you.

Still think we would need to purge a high cb salary so we can make additional moves.



Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 9:50:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Trust me, I'm not going to build a case to keep Compton unless he's a minimum deep back-up or even zealously defend my statement above, but the other two were horrible late in the season.

I have hope for Elf and think it may easily have come down to lingering effects of his injuries, including conditioning. But we can't count on him as a surefire starter on a good line at this point.

I'm going to eventually try to see what's available in FA beyond Saffold, but we have to add two starter level interior OL before the draft or we're risking another lost season and another year where we can't readily evaluate what we have---or don't have---in Cousins.

Saffold (30 ) appears to be the best UFA G this off-season

My guess it will take 4-5 year contract north of 50ml to land him


That's doable.

This where not drafting a Daniels or a Whitehair gets you.

Still think we would need to purge a high cb salary so we can make additional moves.


There is wiggle room. We've gone through offseason salary purges left and right here, so we already know how the team can (and to some extent, will) create more cap space. And we dont HAVE to trade anybody to do it.

Sending Remmers and Sendejo alone opens money for that potential Saffold contract salary in 2019. And the 10-12 million increase in cap space also helps big time. I'm not concerned with being a team with less cap space than others, since we are talking about a team easily having 20+ million to spend, once they do a couple of no brainer maneuvers.

Free agency will be what it always is.. guys chasing checks; some looking to win, some looking for the biggest payday, some trying to get both. And anyone that doesn't sign here is just someone that wanted a different situation than what we presented, which alot of time, is far beyond the control of anyone in the Vikings organization.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:23:15 AM)

Releasing Sandejo but re-signing Harris = push

Releasing Remmers gains us about 5ml due to a 1.8ml dead cap hit

A big chunk can be gained by releasing Griffin. Let Richardson and Barr walk.

Restructure Rudy gaining us 2.5 ml.

Trade Rhodes for a #1 pick. gains us 14ml

Sign Roger Saffold G and KJ Wright OLB. Still room for a few 2nd and 3rd tier FA's.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:36:26 AM)

I think Saffold resigns with the Rams.

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/39526/longest-tenured-ram-rodger-saffold-has-seen-it-all-and-wants-to-come-back-for-more



Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:37:31 AM)

Trading Rhodes doesn't gain 14 mil dude.. it gains six. And you wont get a 1st for him, especially since you think hes damaged goods.



Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:39:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think Saffold resigns with the Rams.

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/39526/longest-tenured-ram-rodger-saffold-has-seen-it-all-and-wants-to-come-back-for-more


Possible. They just have to be smart and creative with his money, assuming he doesn't take a discount. Goff's next contract looms, even if it's as far away as two years.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:39:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think Saffold resigns with the Rams.

http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/39526/longest-tenured-ram-rodger-saffold-has-seen-it-all-and-wants-to-come-back-for-more

I was afraid of this



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:42:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Trading Rhodes doesn't gain 14 mil dude.. it gains six. And you wont get a 1st for him, especially since you think hes damaged goods.

Rhodes should garner a 1st rd pick.

He's due 14ml unless we get hit with some sort dead cap hit from a trade.



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:43:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Time for Zimmer to lose the chip on his shoulder. He hasn't accomplished shit. 5 years that ended in a thunk of one fashion or another. The latest being a giant turd of failed expectations. Great defensive mind that has used a ton of top draft stock for defense all to leave then feeling over coached in the end and under performing. Cries about running the ball but neglected the line.

He takes too many shots at people and players for a guy that has one playoff win as a coach and it took a miracle play to get it.

If we turn it around and save his job that will be fine with me...but if we thunk again what a waste the last half dozen years will be.


No different than the previous 53. They all "ended in a thunk of one fashion or another."



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 10:56:58 AM)

After Saffold, it is very slim pickings.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2019G.php

Mark Glowinski might be the best available guy to hit the market. His PFF ranking is above average (69.7) But he was not good in Seattle. Took over starting job game 6 for Indy. Indy has a ton of cap space so if they want him back, they have the resources. it would take a massive overpay to get him imo. On a side note, Indy has 140M in cap space and won a playoff game, franchise QB.

After Glow, a lot of average/old/or simply bad options.

Our best bet might be to trade for NE Ted Karras (RFA). But he's never been a starter. Would have to probably give up a third. But desperate times.....



Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 11:07:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

Trading Rhodes doesn't gain 14 mil dude.. it gains six. And you wont get a 1st for him, especially since you think hes damaged goods.

Rhodes should garner a 1st rd pick.

He's due 14ml unless we get hit with some sort dead cap hit from a trade.


Hes due 13.3 and just north of 7 mil in dead money.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 11:09:33 AM)

Looks there are several good center options. Might be more reasonable price tag too

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2019C.php


Mitch Morse from KC maybe? Sign him.

Move Elf to LG (compete for starting job).

Trade for Karras.

Draft a guard.

Gotta have the right Oline coach to bring it all together.

It's not ideal. Lotta questions marks. IDK



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 11:41:54 AM)

Appears we will be painted into a corner once again to have to over pay for mediocre FA olineman similar to what we had to do with the R & R boys.

Someone needs to remind Spielman of the study he did a couple years ago about drafting olineman.



bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 11:52:51 AM)

Pro personnel group has to earn their money, including Spielman. I've been in the space in an NBA office where they dealt with players already in the league, and they had rankings, groupings, classifications, color coding, etc, for every player in the NBA, the developmental league, and a bunch in Europe. They had extensive data not only on performance, but on their career history, salary history, forward projections, etc. They had trade scenario's that included who was worth a first-rounder, what it might take to get each in terms of draft picks, cash, cap room, players currently on their roster, etc.

The Vikings have to go into the draft with two new starters out of the three interior OL spots, and they probably aren't getting a star. I'd love to get Saffold, but I've thought all along he returns to the Rams unless there's something unknown. When I read that article, none of it surprised me.

We are going to have to be creative and smart, and probably willing to overpay the guys we bring in. What we can't do is wait until the draft, because we might not have guys fall to us who can legitimately start on Day 1 of the 2019 season.

Any offseason plan that doesn't account for two new starting interior OL is a total non-starter, pun somewhat intended. Past failures have made it much harder to field an effective OL in 2019, as Bill said.

The front office has to have started earning their 2019 paychecks well before the present moment or we might already be screwed.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 12:01:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Pro personnel group has to earn their money, including Spielman. I've been in the space in an NBA office where they dealt with players already in the league, and they had rankings, groupings, classifications, color coding, etc, for every player in the NBA, the developmental league, and a bunch in Europe. They had extensive data not only on performance, but on their career history, salary history, forward projections, etc. They had trade scenario's that included who was worth a first-rounder, what it might take to get each in terms of draft picks, cash, cap room, players currently on their roster, etc.

The Vikings have to go into the draft with two new starters out of the three interior OL spots, and they probably aren't getting a star. I'd love to get Saffold, but I've thought all along he returns to the Rams unless there's something unknown. When I read that article, none of it surprised me.

We are going to have to be creative and smart, and probably willing to overpay the guys we bring in. What we can't do is wait until the draft, because we might not have guys fall to us who can legitimately start on Day 1 of the 2019 season.

Any offseason plan that doesn't account for two new starting interior OL is a total non-starter, pun somewhat intended. Past failures have made it much harder to field an effective OL in 2019, as Bill said.

The front office has to have started earning their 2019 paychecks well before the present moment or we might already be screwed.

Good stuff

If we did wait until the draft we'd about have to trade up or get sniped like last year on TE's a couple times.

It's important to have some flexibility on draft day where your needs aren't blatantly obvious.



Ian Joseph -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2019 12:06:04 PM)

Can someone please show me some sort of evidence where we got our pockets picked for Ian Thomas. Please.

We've been talking about that conjecture for almost a year, which until shown otherwise, appears to a fan-developed theory with no evidentiary support.



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