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thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/21/2019 8:21:07 PM)

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ORIGINAL: drviking

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: bongbong

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: jbusse

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: jbusse

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/11/20/20973676/minnesota-vikings-win-over-denver-broncos-proved-very-little

I wonder, what exactly is Mike Zimmer getting paid to do? This defensive ‘mastermind’ can’t get his team to beat Chase Daniel, or Matt Moore, and made Brandon Allen look like the second coming of Joe Montana. He’s supposed to be a ‘whisperer’ of defensive backs. Yet, Xavier Rhodes, Trae Waynes, and Mike Hughes, three 1st round picks, continue to look nothing short of horrendous each week trying to defend even mediocre receivers whether in man-to-man or zone coverage, and Mackensie Alexander hasn’t looked a lot better either. I’ve asked this here before, and I’ll ask again: Has Mike Zimmer never taught these guys how to look back for the ball, or how to play it when they do? Vikings corners have TWO interceptions in 11 games, TWO! That’s it! The Vikings are 25th in pass plays allowed of 20+ yards, that’s an enormous problem. When that happens with such frequency (40 times in 11 games), that is COACHING every bit that it’s the players.

Thought this snippet from the article was spot on.

I liked this part as well:

Scheme suggestion: on 3rd down defense, the line should look like this left to right (facing from the offensive side): Anthony Barr, Stephen Weatherly, Danielle Hunter, Everson Griffen. Barr is much better playing downhill, and his speed on an edge rush and/or contain could prove a big difference against faster quarterback. Play Jayron Kearse where Barr would play as a linebacker, and go from there. Kearse clearly covers better than Barr. Also, please give Holton Hill more playing time, this guy has proven he can play, and there’s no way he could play worse than the current corners Zimmer chooses to field most of the time, right?

Agree 100%

Barr's skill set as a pass rusher are way under utilized.

Kearse is way better in coverage so it's a win win.

Adding some juice to are pass rush is much needed and the player is right there on the field being asked to do something he isn't good at instead.

One of the reporters should ask Zimmer about these possibilities during a press conference. Something tells me Zimmer would not respond well.


One of the assistant coaches should bring it up in a meeting. Maybe they have. In my dreamworld the coaches have talked up a bunch of this kind of stuff and see the ways they could capitalize on the misdirection and surprise of bringing out a twist like this every once in a while. Again, dreamworld here, I hope they've got this stuff waiting - waiting for the playoffs or NFCCG. So that this time it's the Vikings that are being talked about for having such a great strategy.

One would think if they had a new twist regarding the pass rush it certainly should have been used on one of those 4th down plays Denver converted on in that final drive.

We very easily could have lost that game had Allen thrown that final pass to Fant with a little more touch.

I haven't seen much creativity in the rush this season for the most part.



Could we have then challenged for offensive PI? It was kind of blatant, but I don't think there's been a successful challenge this year


if it were a scoring play there would be a booth review. That would be subject to the review process, but they really haven't been overturning those calls at all this year.



Can't challenge anything under 2 minutes

All plays are booth reviews under 2 minutes not just scoring plays

IIRC


Yes.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 7:18:08 AM)

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ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Fred Cox died today. Not only was he a great kicker for us, but he invented the Nerf football. I remember when I was a kid, my dad drove me past his farm, and some of the outbuildings were painted purple and yellow. A Viking to the bone.



https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nerf-football-inventor-ex-vikings-kicker-fred-cox-died-at-age-80-213703569.html




Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 7:45:42 AM)

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: bongbong

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: David F.

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ORIGINAL: jbusse

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

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ORIGINAL: jbusse

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/11/20/20973676/minnesota-vikings-win-over-denver-broncos-proved-very-little

I wonder, what exactly is Mike Zimmer getting paid to do? This defensive ‘mastermind’ can’t get his team to beat Chase Daniel, or Matt Moore, and made Brandon Allen look like the second coming of Joe Montana. He’s supposed to be a ‘whisperer’ of defensive backs. Yet, Xavier Rhodes, Trae Waynes, and Mike Hughes, three 1st round picks, continue to look nothing short of horrendous each week trying to defend even mediocre receivers whether in man-to-man or zone coverage, and Mackensie Alexander hasn’t looked a lot better either. I’ve asked this here before, and I’ll ask again: Has Mike Zimmer never taught these guys how to look back for the ball, or how to play it when they do? Vikings corners have TWO interceptions in 11 games, TWO! That’s it! The Vikings are 25th in pass plays allowed of 20+ yards, that’s an enormous problem. When that happens with such frequency (40 times in 11 games), that is COACHING every bit that it’s the players.

Thought this snippet from the article was spot on.

I liked this part as well:

Scheme suggestion: on 3rd down defense, the line should look like this left to right (facing from the offensive side): Anthony Barr, Stephen Weatherly, Danielle Hunter, Everson Griffen. Barr is much better playing downhill, and his speed on an edge rush and/or contain could prove a big difference against faster quarterback. Play Jayron Kearse where Barr would play as a linebacker, and go from there. Kearse clearly covers better than Barr. Also, please give Holton Hill more playing time, this guy has proven he can play, and there’s no way he could play worse than the current corners Zimmer chooses to field most of the time, right?

Agree 100%

Barr's skill set as a pass rusher are way under utilized.

Kearse is way better in coverage so it's a win win.

Adding some juice to are pass rush is much needed and the player is right there on the field being asked to do something he isn't good at instead.

One of the reporters should ask Zimmer about these possibilities during a press conference. Something tells me Zimmer would not respond well.


One of the assistant coaches should bring it up in a meeting. Maybe they have. In my dreamworld the coaches have talked up a bunch of this kind of stuff and see the ways they could capitalize on the misdirection and surprise of bringing out a twist like this every once in a while. Again, dreamworld here, I hope they've got this stuff waiting - waiting for the playoffs or NFCCG. So that this time it's the Vikings that are being talked about for having such a great strategy.

One would think if they had a new twist regarding the pass rush it certainly should have been used on one of those 4th down plays Denver converted on in that final drive.

We very easily could have lost that game had Allen thrown that final pass to Fant with a little more touch.

I haven't seen much creativity in the rush this season for the most part.



Could we have then challenged for offensive PI? It was kind of blatant, but I don't think there's been a successful challenge this year


if it were a scoring play there would be a booth review. That would be subject to the review process, but they really haven't been overturning those calls at all this year.


You've obviously forgotten getting screwed out of a TD at Lambeu this year. Granted they don't overturn them easily, but Fant pretty blatantly put two hands on Kearse's chest and shoved off hard.

NO I have NOT.

1. It was in Lambeau and the officials had a new way this year to screw visiting opponents.

2. The league wasn't even looking at PI on that play it's just that it was a scoring play under review.

3. Of all challenges or reviews that have involved PI only like 2 have been changed from the call on the field. Ours was one of them. and it was instigated by a booth review of a the scoring play. It was complete bullshit and typical Lambeau screwjob by the officials.




bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 9:29:54 AM)

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......




stfrank -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 9:42:55 AM)

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......

There may not be a "Marty" style conspiracy, but they sure seem to get way more bad calls going for them than against them.




Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 10:06:32 AM)

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ORIGINAL: stfrank

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......

There may not be a "Marty" style conspiracy, but they sure seem to get way more bad calls going for them than against them.

One year when Meathead was our HC...the Vikings sent NINE Plays to the league office that were bad calls all favoring the Packers at Lambeau...the league agreed. And this isn't a one time incident. It happens all the time there, in Pittsburght, in Dallas and in New England. Terrible officiating benefitting a few teams. Do I think there is an intent here? No. But the Packers almost never get a bad call go against them in Lambeau.




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 10:12:38 AM)

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: stfrank

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......

There may not be a "Marty" style conspiracy, but they sure seem to get way more bad calls going for them than against them.

One year when Meathead was our HC...the Vikings sent NINE Plays to the league office that were bad calls all favoring the Packers at Lambeau...the league agreed. And this isn't a one time incident. It happens all the time there, in Pittsburght, in Dallas and in New England. Terrible officiating benefitting a few teams. Do I think there is an intent here? No. But the Packers almost never get a bad call go against them in Lambeau.

I remember that something like 6 or 7 officials from that crew were terminated after the season.




SoMnFan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 10:15:30 AM)

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

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ORIGINAL: stfrank

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ORIGINAL: bohumm

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......

There may not be a "Marty" style conspiracy, but they sure seem to get way more bad calls going for them than against them.

One year when Meathead was our HC...the Vikings sent NINE Plays to the league office that were bad calls all favoring the Packers at Lambeau...the league agreed. And this isn't a one time incident. It happens all the time there, in Pittsburght, in Dallas and in New England. Terrible officiating benefitting a few teams. Do I think there is an intent here? No. But the Packers almost never get a bad call go against them in Lambeau.

I remember that something like 6 or 7 officials from that crew were terminated after the season.

Exactly. Its not pre-planned, I agree. But it's a definite reaction once the game starts.
Intimidated by Rodgers, intimidated by Lambeau. No one will convince me different on that.
So many calls are just laying there, they can go either way … like Rodgers will ever get the short end of them? Riggggght.




Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 10:30:28 AM)

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ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......

There may not be a "Marty" style conspiracy, but they sure seem to get way more bad calls going for them than against them.

One year when Meathead was our HC...the Vikings sent NINE Plays to the league office that were bad calls all favoring the Packers at Lambeau...the league agreed. And this isn't a one time incident. It happens all the time there, in Pittsburght, in Dallas and in New England. Terrible officiating benefitting a few teams. Do I think there is an intent here? No. But the Packers almost never get a bad call go against them in Lambeau.

I remember that something like 6 or 7 officials from that crew were terminated after the season.

Exactly. Its not pre-planned, I agree. But it's a definite reaction once the game starts.
Intimidated by Rodgers, intimidated by Lambeau. No one will convince me different on that.
So many calls are just laying there, they can go either way … like Rodgers will ever get the short end of them? Riggggght.

The other thing is when a bad or controversial call goes against the Packers, like the "unnecessary roughness" call on Clay Matthews last year the rules are soon changed...or relaxed so that doesn't happen again.




thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 10:32:43 AM)

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ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......

There may not be a "Marty" style conspiracy, but they sure seem to get way more bad calls going for them than against them.

One year when Meathead was our HC...the Vikings sent NINE Plays to the league office that were bad calls all favoring the Packers at Lambeau...the league agreed. And this isn't a one time incident. It happens all the time there, in Pittsburght, in Dallas and in New England. Terrible officiating benefitting a few teams. Do I think there is an intent here? No. But the Packers almost never get a bad call go against them in Lambeau.


These were ALL in the 2nd half also.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 10:57:28 AM)

Game changing calls have benefited the Packers twice this season so far and I'm not even talking about the unheard of OPI on Cook on the scoring review. They happened against the Lions and the Panthers.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 11:01:42 AM)

The Bears say it's the Packers. The Lions say it's the Packers. The Vikings say it's the Packers. The Packers can still remember the two times they got screwed in the last ten years. The Fail Mary and Clay Mathews roughing the passer vs us. The thousands of memes being created and shared on the internet show the refs doing the lambaugh leap and refs joining in the Packers defensive team celebrations - not some other teams.

The favoritism is real. You might ask, "Then why do you even watch the games?" Fair question. Because I love football, I love the Vikings, and I want to see them overcome the deck stacked against them and win a Super Bowl. To me it will be worth five Super Bowls that go to a team that gets favored pereninally.




bongbong -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 2:18:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

There is no conspiracy whereby the officials/NFL favor the Packers. It saddens me to see how many extremely bright people fall for this kind of madness.

Would it surprise you that an intelligent friend of my wife's is certain that the the safety in the Minnesota Miracle play missed Diggs on purpose due to nefarious gambling interests? He built a whole case around how there is no other explanation......

There may not be a "Marty" style conspiracy, but they sure seem to get way more bad calls going for them than against them.

One year when Meathead was our HC...the Vikings sent NINE Plays to the league office that were bad calls all favoring the Packers at Lambeau...the league agreed. And this isn't a one time incident. It happens all the time there, in Pittsburght, in Dallas and in New England. Terrible officiating benefitting a few teams. Do I think there is an intent here? No. But the Packers almost never get a bad call go against them in Lambeau.


The Pats. Tuck rule was 2nd biggest ref call in my football life. (Take a bow, Drew Pearson.) No one had heard of it before that game. Never called before that, and maybe twice in the ensuing 20 (?) years. Such a bizarre rule. By the letter, would apply to about one-third/one-half of QB fumbles. The hell?




Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 2:30:03 PM)

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ORIGINAL: David F.

The Bears say it's the Packers. The Lions say it's the Packers. The Vikings say it's the Packers. The Packers can still remember the two times they got screwed in the last ten years. The Fail Mary and Clay Mathews roughing the passer vs us. The thousands of memes being created and shared on the internet show the refs doing the lambaugh leap and refs joining in the Packers defensive team celebrations - not some other teams.

The favoritism is real. You might ask, "Then why do you even watch the games?" Fair question. Because I love football, I love the Vikings, and I want to see them overcome the deck stacked against them and win a Super Bowl. To me it will be worth five Super Bowls that go to a team that gets favored pereninally.


I like to read SB Nation DailyNorseman and sites for our division and opponents. They do polls and post aggregate numbers. I would love to see a poll accross the sites that asked which non-division team gets the most benefit from the refs. I'd be willing to bet Packers win it with the Pats second. A lot of my Bronco friends said something after they played the Packers.

I think it goes beyond perception. After the Lions game someone posted penalty yards stats (I think for the last 5 years), Packers were #1, Detroit last. You could say better coached teams get called for fewer penalties which is true but I bet if PFF did an analysis it would show benefit in calls and non-calls.




kevinemmer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 5:05:22 PM)

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Shouldn't be difficult for Cousins to recognize an off side on the defense.

Diggs also needs to be aware and do a fly pattern.


Yes.

And Diggs did recognize and run a fly on this last one.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/22/2019 5:05:46 PM)

Here is a video of the controversial fumble that was not reviewed, or at least not reversed. I don't think it was linked here yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY2cu8pqFqY




jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/23/2019 8:39:57 AM)

Lots of reasons for continued optimism. When they click on all cylinders, Vikes have a lot of weapons on both sides of the ball. Just need to peak at the right time. No dominant teams out there this year. NE and SF are mediocre on offense. Seattle, KC, and GB are mediocre on defense. Brees is not having his typical great year. Baltimore is the wild card. A home game in the playoffs would help, so hope we can win at least 4 more.




Guest -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/23/2019 12:03:27 PM)

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ORIGINAL: jbusse

Lots of reasons for continued optimism. When they click on all cylinders, Vikes have a lot of weapons on both sides of the ball. Just need to peak at the right time. No dominant teams out there this year. NE and SF are mediocre on offense. Seattle, KC, and GB are mediocre on defense. Brees is not having his typical great year. Baltimore is the wild card. A home game in the playoffs would help, so hope we can win at least 4 more.



So true.

Simply put if our defense gets some of its 2017 Mojo back, and our OLine holds up we definitely are a better team then ‘17.

That’s not that big of a stretch.

By the same token we could devolve into that team we saw in the first half vs Denver last week.

Time to get really hot!

50 something years of being due!!!!!!!




bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/23/2019 4:31:40 PM)

I like where we are now. We're not a great team, but we're a good enough team to play with anyone if we catch fire. I agree with Kurt that it comes down to the OL and the DBs; if they perform, we can beat anyone. The OL has trended positively as the year has gone by; Kirk has proven he can be clutch with adequate protection and Dalvin is elite if he even gets a slight seam or a second-level block. The DBs.....have all played well at some point, so if they can put it together, we could go on a magic run that ends in a parade.




Dana Turner -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/23/2019 7:14:33 PM)

I am sure that the coaching staff of the Vikings realizes that the match-up with Seattle is wrought with both opportunity and danger. Seattle has a mobile QB that is a very heady player and has got a very talented WR group. The Vikings have obviously struggled defending the pass downfield. On the flip side, the Vikings have a top five running game and Seattle is susceptible to the run. I believe that if Minnesota comes away from this contest with an advantage in time of possession, it will be a Viking win.

If this turns in to a shoot out, the Vikings stand only a slim chance as the advantages shift to Seattle and their home field advantage. Seattles defense is good, but not close to the defenses of the past up in the PNW. If we can get our running game opened up and churning up good chunks of yardage, Cousins will find areas of Seattles pass defense open for exploitation. The key will be not allowing Seattles offense to score rapidly, we will need a glimpse of last years excellent third down defense to show up for this game. If Seattle punts the ball 4 or more times, it's our game. Seattle is a tough place to play, that's obvious, but it's not an impossible task like it has been in the past. The coaching staff needs to show up and have solid game plans in place, if we get out coached, we won't win this one. Sometimes teams come off the bye a little lethargic, we can't afford that in this game.

Come out with a fight and bad intentions on our minds and we'll take the fight to Seattle right from the start. Come out trying to feel your way in to it, and it's going to be a long, bad night!




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/23/2019 11:18:22 PM)

We never win in Seattle. It's time to change that. Seattle has a couple of good running backs who run with power. It must be tough to defend against the combination of power and mobile qb.




CPAMAN -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/24/2019 11:08:22 AM)

I am glad the Vikings get a legitimate playoff bound team after the bye vs. Seattle. No opportunity for a let down or not to be ready to play. This is a huge game for playoff position and even a playoff spot. Win, and the NFC North is doable with a show down vs. GB. Lose, and a WC playoff spot becomes probably the only chance and even then it starts to depend upon how other teams compete in December.




marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/24/2019 4:09:33 PM)

The non-reviewed fumble on Watson: the league prefers Houston being competitive to the Luck-less Colts, and the game was in Houston.




marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/24/2019 4:15:08 PM)

I HAVE seen a few games where the Packers were screwed by the refs at home, but they are a rarity. It could have been something with the point spread for the other team, or just honest [or dishonest] mistakes [;)]

Favorable officiating for the Pack from the refs is expected, and is usually the case, it's not a myth. It gets extreme at times, but this doesn't anger me, I find it mostly comical.

If the Vikings win the SB, I prefer that the officiating is AGAINST them on their SB run, it will make it all the more satisfying.




marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (11/24/2019 4:27:47 PM)

The Vikings were 3-1 against the spread at home, going into last week, and had a week opponent with an inexperienced QB. It's possible the minute betting was mostly on the Vikes.

The refs may have decided to keep Denver competitive for 3 quarters, and let either tean win it at the end, just didn't want Vikes covering the large spread.

But they don't do the same pattern every week, or that would be too predictable. So this week, there was much more betting on Denver, than on Buffalo. Denver doesn't get the same help from the refs, and Buffalo covers the spread.




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