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Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 7:31:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stfrank I know what you mean Todd. For me, it's more like apathy has set in. I don't know if I will watch another NFL game this season and that doesn't bother me one bit. Mediocrity has set in. We have an overpayed aging defense, an offensive line that didn't improve as the season went on, a head coach that doesn't understand the importance of good offense, and a late first rounder. This was probably our shot to do something. I'm not excited for next season.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:10:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson No Shurmur. Going to Denver Ouch. Was really hoping we could get him back.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:18:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stfrank quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Draft order finalized. I thought it might have been #26, so we lucked there. https://www.dailynorseman.com/2020/1/12/21063220/nfl-draft-order-vikings-spot-finalized First order of business is trading down to collect some more 4th rounders...... And use those picks for kickers and punters.

twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:25:28 AM)
I noticed the Packers got a few cookies yesterday. 1) Hail Mary by Seattle at the end of the first half - Incomplete with 1 second left. That second magically disappears. Half over. 2) Late in the game, Green Bay running back is clearly stopped short of the goal line upon replay. Not overturned. TD Packers. 3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over. There were more, but my short-term memory is not the best.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:28:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan I noticed the Packers got a few cookies yesterday. 1) Hail Mary by Seattle at the end of the first half - Incomplete with 1 second left. That second magically disappears. Half over. 2) Late in the game, Green Bay running back is clearly stopped short of the goal line upon replay. Not overturned. TD Packers. 3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over. There were more, but my short-term memory is not the best. Noticed all those as well. Also seen a lot of head slapping and holding no calls by their oline.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:31:13 AM)
I noticed the Packers we’re willing to pass late in the game to keep possession. Playing to win.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:31:53 AM)
3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over. Was Graham and his face landed on the yellow line with the ball in his stomach area. That was clearly short yet NY did not overturn.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:33:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I noticed the Packers we’re willing to pass late in the game to keep possession. Playing to win. True. sea was stuffing the run so rather than 2 running plays and punt (Zimmer ball) they threw and kept the chains moving with some help from the zebras.

The Happy Norseman -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:37:03 AM)
Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters: Waynes Griffin Rudolph Rhodes Reiff It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one.

twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:41:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall I noticed the Packers we’re willing to pass late in the game to keep possession. Playing to win. Yes, me too. But they were gifted a 1st down on a pass that was short of the marker.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 8:44:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan I noticed the Packers got a few cookies yesterday. 1) Hail Mary by Seattle at the end of the first half - Incomplete with 1 second left. That second magically disappears. Half over. 2) Late in the game, Green Bay running back is clearly stopped short of the goal line upon replay. Not overturned. TD Packers. 3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over. There were more, but my short-term memory is not the best. I noticed a few late hits and chippiness allowed by the GB defense also.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 9:20:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters: Waynes Griffin Rudolph Rhodes Reiff It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one. My understanding is that you'll only get compensatory picks for your free agents if they leave. Griffin, Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff aren't free agents. If you cut them you won't get compensation. Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff have considerable dead cap #'s for next year so cutting them isn't a slam dunk. Waynes, Mackenzie, Harris are 3 FA's whom could garner picks if we don't resign. I'd like to try and keep Mack and Harris if enough adjustments can be made.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 9:23:26 AM)
First things first this offseason. We need an OC that will actually adapt to what the other team is doing to them defensively. If they are selling out to stop the run. Pass the **** out of them, If they commit to stopping the pass...Run it up the gut 53 times until they stop you. Same on defense. It's time for Zimmer to relinquish play calling, he can still have input like good times to blitz etc. In any case they need to adapt. When they are running it up the gut play after play after play and getting 4,7,10 yards, IT"S TIME TO BRING SOMEBODY UP INTO THE BOX. My biggest problem with the current coaching staff has been and will continue to be the slow or nonexistant way they adapt to what the other team is doing. For the love of Christ get some coordinators that can adapt quickly on the fly. NEXT. Spend the offseason purging the overpriced deadweights like Rhodes. Restructure some contracts to give us some salary cap room and get some REAL NFL OGs. Draft. One of the picks had better be a QBOTF. Find a way to keep Anthony Harris. That dude is a gamer. Trade Diggs, If he's going to be a crying little bitch, trade him and use the picks for his replacement.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 9:52:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro 3) Even later in the game, I don't remember the GB receiver, but he was stopped short of the first down. Refs give him a gift spot. Upon replay, it's clear he's nearly a full yard short. Call not overturned. 1st down Packers. Game over. Was Graham and his face landed on the yellow line with the ball in his stomach area. That was clearly short yet NY did not overturn. Center holding on that play also.

Steve Lentz -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 9:54:18 AM)
Get an Offensive line!

kevinemmer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:02:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Get an Offensive line! Agreed One of the problems with this staff is, they won't replace an under-performer (ELF!) during the season with "promising" guys on the roster (Udoh, Samia). We may have fixes on roster, but we can't be sure with this coaching staff. Rhodes should have been on the pine long ago, replaced by Hill, Kearse, heck even Boyd. But no.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:04:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Get an Offensive line! It really is that simple. All the other pieces of the team range from elite to below average. The below average and average pieces can be worked with but a poor Oline will and did sink this team. For reference - my opinion on the pieces of the team are: D ends - Elite Interior line - average LB - above average (Kendricks is elite, Barr is below average, Wilson is average) CBs - below average (this is a great mystery to me - can they really all be bad? Is it a poor scheme? Maybe they are all bad?) Safeties - Elite QB - Excellent TEs - Average WRs - Excellent to elite RBs - Excellent to elite Special teams - Above average In any given offseason over the last four to five years I've seen posters suggest drafting OL in the first three picks and I think a lot of the time the poster was dead serious. The team responded by sometimes picking one OL in the first few rounds. In reality - it should have been OL in two of the first three picks for many drafts in a row. Can the team find the wisdom to do this now and going forward? Is it too late?

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:05:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kevinemmer quote: ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz Get an Offensive line! Agreed One of the problems with this staff is, they won't replace an under-performer (ELF!) during the season with "promising" guys on the roster (Udoh, Samia). We may have fixes on roster, but we can't be sure with this coaching staff. Rhodes should have been on the pine long ago, replaced by Hill, Kearse, heck even Boyd. But no. Zimmer doesn't allow competition for starting spots. It's his biggest flaw in his coaching.

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:05:43 AM)
Zimmer talked to Parcells about how to get over the hump...... Also said we have OL guys who have basically redshirted, but overall hopes that the OL "becomes even more of a strength." Wants OC with same system, same playcalls, same motions, same schemes..... Internal hire---book it.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:09:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: stfrank I know what you mean Todd. For me, it's more like apathy has set in. I don't know if I will watch another NFL game this season and that doesn't bother me one bit. Mediocrity has set in. We have an overpayed aging defense, an offensive line that didn't improve as the season went on, a head coach that doesn't understand the importance of good offense, and a late first rounder. This was probably our shot to do something. I'm not excited for next season. I'm excited. The moves will all but make themselves. There is no gray area. 1) No more hoping that Elflein gets it. He needs to be replaced. You don't give up on an athlete like Bradbury 2) Udoh and O'Neill bring athleticism to the Tackle spot that we haven't had in awhile. 3) The way our DTs got run over all but paves the way for drafting someone to help Stephen, Watts and Holmes. Linval gone. 4) Harris will be retained. 5) CB needs to be addressed. Rhodes gone. 6) Speed WR should be a priority. We don't need some polished route runner. Just a guy who can keep the defense honest. 7) This is tricky but we need to not hire Yes Men for the Coordinator spots. 8) No need to draft LB and RB

Richard Neussendorfer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:14:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm Zimmer talked to Parcells about how to get over the hump...... Also said we have OL guys who have basically redshirted, but overall hopes that the OL "becomes even more of a strength." Wants OC with same system, same playcalls, same motions, same schemes..... Internal hire---book it. So Zimmer still wants to play Parcells ball 25 years too late. Exciting!

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:22:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters: Waynes Griffin Rudolph Rhodes Reiff It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one. My understanding is that you'll only get compensatory picks for your free agents if they leave. Griffin, Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff aren't free agents. If you cut them you won't get compensation. Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff have considerable dead cap #'s for next year so cutting them isn't a slam dunk. Waynes, Mackenzie, Harris are 3 FA's whom could garner picks if we don't resign. I'd like to try and keep Mack and Harris if enough adjustments can be made. I think Rhodes, Reiff and Joseph cap numbers for next year are significantly bigger than the dead cap #s we would have to take. No brainer cuts.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:24:01 AM)
End of season PFF rankings for our CBs: Macenzie Alexander: 67 Trae Waynes: 73 Holton Hill: 85 Mike Hughs: 129 Boyd: 169 Rhodes: 187 There are a total of 214 CBs ranked. Can they all really be that bad? We don't even have one guy in the top 64? This is strange.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:27:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm Zimmer talked to Parcells about how to get over the hump...... Also said we have OL guys who have basically redshirted, but overall hopes that the OL "becomes even more of a strength." Wants OC with same system, same playcalls, same motions, same schemes..... Internal hire---book it. So Zimmer still wants to play Parcells ball 25 years too late. Exciting! What kind of ball is Tennessee playing? And what kind of ball did SF bury us with?

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/13/2020 10:30:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman Does anyone know how compensatory picks are determined? I expect/hope we'll lose/cut the following starters: Waynes Griffin Rudolph Rhodes Reiff It would be nice if we could snag a couple of 3rd round draft picks in return. Rhodes and Reiff probably aren't worth more than a 7th, but Griffin is a multiple Pro Bowler playing at a high level, and Waynes plays a key position and has been a starter almost since day one. My understanding is that you'll only get compensatory picks for your free agents if they leave. Griffin, Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff aren't free agents. If you cut them you won't get compensation. Rudolph, Rhodes, and Reiff have considerable dead cap #'s for next year so cutting them isn't a slam dunk. Waynes, Mackenzie, Harris are 3 FA's whom could garner picks if we don't resign. I'd like to try and keep Mack and Harris if enough adjustments can be made. I think Rhodes, Reiff and Joseph cap numbers for next year are significantly bigger than the dead cap #s we would have to take. No brainer cuts. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/cap/ To determine the cap savings for a cut player you take the cap hit and subtract the dead money. Notable cap savings: Linval: $10.5 million Griffen: $13.1 million Rhodes: $8.1 million Reiff: $8.8 million I'd love to keep Griffen by extending him for three seasons and making his cap hit this year more in the $5-6 million range.

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