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Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 12:41:12 PM)

I’m betting on latter, especially as a goalie.[:D]



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 1:31:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

When I go to Twitter I can only find angry politics. Politics divides us, but sports brings us together. That's one of the best things about being a Vikings fan. We are linked together by our common passion for our team. I just wish there was more going on. There's nothing. Nothing is probably better than something at this time, though. If there is news, it's going to be bad. (ie. somebody has tested positive)

Well, I believe the Minnesota Twins, Lynx and United all won yesterday. We have that and it was a good day for Minnesota from that perspective.

If you want something to cheer about you can watch this. I enjoyed it. (Minnesota United scoring quite a few goals)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEeDGHCfXmc

The opponents GoalKeeper was a sieve. He made a nice stop on the PK, but 4 of the 5 goals allowed he had rather easy chances to save. Fun to watch.



Is this a joke or have you never stepped on a pitch?

Aren't all the Pitch's in Europe? In America I thought we called it a field [&:]He got his hands on 3 of the 4 and the other was right there for him. IMO he was a sieve.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 3:38:39 PM)

Conventional analytics wisdom says running on second and long is a bad idea, but I actually don't mind it too much.

For example, last year Vikings were criticized for running on second and long (6+ yards to go) too often, but they averaged 5.75 yards per carry doing it.

********
Yes but EPA bins on a league-wide basis

Vikings were the 3rd best team at converting 3rd & short (63% success rate with 1-5 yds to go) but 23rd at converting 3rd & long (25% success rate on 6+ yds to go)

Nick Olson on Twitter



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 4:44:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Conventional analytics wisdom says running on second and long is a bad idea, but I actually don't mind it too much.

For example, last year Vikings were criticized for running on second and long (6+ yards to go) too often, but they averaged 5.75 yards per carry doing it.

********
Yes but EPA bins on a league-wide basis

Vikings were the 3rd best team at converting 3rd & short (63% success rate with 1-5 yds to go) but 23rd at converting 3rd & long (25% success rate on 6+ yds to go)

Nick Olson on Twitter

Very interesting.



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 4:51:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Or just maybe some other toxic piece of the special teams is no longer with the team? I can’t be the only one to notice exactly when special teams took a significant upswing in quality can I?

OMG what a joke.


Ok. It definitely checks out as sound then.

I of course was already there but getting the kg stamp on it drives it home.

Thanks for your faith in me Todd. [:D]

Honestly I just think DF's vendetta against Prieffer is pure comedy. He was stolen from us by another NFL team. Ancient history and IMO ridiculous that DF keeps harping on about him.


Maybe I’m wrong - who knows? Maybe it’s just by chance that special teams measurably improved in so many aspects. Perhaps the change in personnel was the key. Seems like we we’re changing up the personnel plenty in the past with no results to speak of... who knows? I guess in the meantime we can all agree it’s nice to have solid special teams - something we haven’t been able to enjoy for quite some time.


I'm not as expert as you (probably don't spend enough time obsessing) but every 2019 ST ranking I've seen gives Clevelands STs the edge over the Vikings STs. And Rich Gosselin's SI rankings have Clevelands STs at #30 in the league in 2018, improving to 14th in 2019 under the Priefmeister, but has the Vikings dropping to 17th in 2019 after the Preifmeister had them at 13th his final year here 2018.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 4:57:03 PM)

Yes, it is interesting. Running on 2nd and long doesn't just seem like a Viking thing. I've noticed it, and posted on it a few times. It is nice to see the stats regarding the situation.

- A spilt stat I'd like to see related to that is did the Vikings crank off a few long runs that skew the stat 'cause 5.75 seems like a lot.

- Truth is I've been pretty anal over 2nd and long with out any data to back up my angst

edit: don't ya just hate it when people budge in line?



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 5:01:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Yes, it is interesting. Running on 2nd and long doesn't just seem like a Viking thing. I've noticed it, and posted on it a few times. It is nice to see the stats regarding the situation.

- A spilt stat I'd like to see related to that is did the Vikings crank off a few long runs that skew the stat 'cause 5.75 seems like a lot.

- Truth is I've been pretty anal over 2nd and long with out any data to back up my angst

edit: don't ya just hate it when people budge in line?


That’s the problem with situational stats - they don’t show effectiveness in the big picture. What if our 2nd-and-Longs include five or six 2nd-and-20 or longer? Very easy to run for eight yards on those. I don’t really know and I don’t have my laptop with me so crunching numbers is difficult right now



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 5:04:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Or just maybe some other toxic piece of the special teams is no longer with the team? I can’t be the only one to notice exactly when special teams took a significant upswing in quality can I?

OMG what a joke.


Ok. It definitely checks out as sound then.

I of course was already there but getting the kg stamp on it drives it home.

Thanks for your faith in me Todd. [:D]

Honestly I just think DF's vendetta against Prieffer is pure comedy. He was stolen from us by another NFL team. Ancient history and IMO ridiculous that DF keeps harping on about him.


Maybe I’m wrong - who knows? Maybe it’s just by chance that special teams measurably improved in so many aspects. Perhaps the change in personnel was the key. Seems like we we’re changing up the personnel plenty in the past with no results to speak of... who knows? I guess in the meantime we can all agree it’s nice to have solid special teams - something we haven’t been able to enjoy for quite some time.


I'm not as expert as you (probably don't spend enough time obsessing) but every 2019 ST ranking I've seen gives Clevelands STs the edge over the Vikings STs. And Rich Gosselin's SI rankings have Clevelands STs at #30 in the league in 2018, improving to 14th in 2019 under the Priefmeister, but has the Vikings dropping to 17th in 2019 after the Preifmeister had them at 13th his final year here 2018.


Maybe they got a professional holder? What was Gosselin’s criteria? Did it feel like our ST’s got worse? Even with the team records that were set?



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 6:01:52 PM)

It would be interesting to see how Glsselin's criteria is weighted. Our FG was up significantly. Without looking it up, I'd bet our punt returning has been trending down, with Sherels gone for most of the season. No idea how our coverage units did.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 8:30:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

It would be interesting to see how Glsselin's criteria is weighted. Our FG was up significantly. Without looking it up, I'd bet our punt returning has been trending down, with Sherels gone for most of the season. No idea how our coverage units did.


I looked it up and he used 22 different things but didn’t say how anything was weighted. It’s tough to quantify special teams. For what it’s worth football outsiders and PFF both ranked the Vikings Over the browns but that means very little also.



Funkytown -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 8:30:33 PM)

The Vikings and Spielman are finalizing a multi-year extension.



kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 8:45:05 PM)

RICK SPIELMAN
G, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports the Vikings signed GM Rick Spielman to a multi-year extension.
Spielman has held the title of GM since 2012. The Vikings have posted two losing seasons in his eight-year tenure and have a 72-54 record under Spielman. He previously served as the Vice President of Player Personnel in Minnesota for six seasons before assuming his current role. The Vikings have Kirk Cousins under contract through 2022 and head coach Mike Zimmer locked up through 2023. Spielman is an aggressive GM and his tenacity has largely been rewarded. Minnesota has one of the brightest outlooks from an organizational perspective in the league.

SOURCE: Tom Pelissero on Twitter
Aug 2, 2020, 8:33 PM ET



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 9:03:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

It would be interesting to see how Glsselin's criteria is weighted. Our FG was up significantly. Without looking it up, I'd bet our punt returning has been trending down, with Sherels gone for most of the season. No idea how our coverage units did.


Seemed like we had more than our share of high short KOs fielded and returned to the 15-20



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 9:55:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Yes, it is interesting. Running on 2nd and long doesn't just seem like a Viking thing. I've noticed it, and posted on it a few times. It is nice to see the stats regarding the situation.

- A spilt stat I'd like to see related to that is did the Vikings crank off a few long runs that skew the stat 'cause 5.75 seems like a lot.

- Truth is I've been pretty anal over 2nd and long with out any data to back up my angst

edit: don't ya just hate it when people budge in line?


That’s the problem with situational stats - they don’t show effectiveness in the big picture. What if our 2nd-and-Longs include five or six 2nd-and-20 or longer? Very easy to run for eight yards on those. I don’t really know and I don’t have my laptop with me so crunching numbers is difficult right now


For most teams, to get a third and "manageable" is critical to sustaining drives. It seems that the Vikings may be one of those teams. Running the ball on second down may be with that in mind- to make third down manageable. No, most certainly it is. Obviously a high proportion of rushes come on first down and the defenses seem to set up for that. Rushing on second down must be a little less predictable, especially if it is 2nd and long. If I was a stat guy I would be more interested in calculating the mean rather than the average. The averages get to be skewed by the long run as was pointed out.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/2/2020 10:05:38 PM)

We have a lot of bodies already competing for the guard spots. Nevertheless, none of them are a safe bet to be a solid starter. This player just released by the Jets would make sense. I don't know. What do you think?

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/should-vikings-sign-former-jets-guard-brian-winters



ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 12:37:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

We have a lot of bodies already competing for the guard spots. Nevertheless, none of them are a safe bet to be a solid starter. This player just released by the Jets would make sense. I don't know. What do you think?

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/should-vikings-sign-former-jets-guard-brian-winters



I was thinking that we have to sign warlord/Kline, but I guess winters would do...we need a seasoned starting guard....



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 7:06:36 AM)

Winters plays RG. I think the plan is more Samia or Udoh for that spot otherwise we would have probably kept Kline esp being we didn't save much money cutting him.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 9:22:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Winters plays RG. I think the plan is more Samia or Udoh for that spot otherwise we would have probably kept Kline esp being we didn't save much money cutting him.


The Vikings have options. Hopefully they make good decisions.

By the way, it seems that we live in Winnersville now. All are teams won this weekend.



Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 9:34:09 AM)

Armon Watts was really good as a rookie.

Of 19 rookie DT/DL playing 100+ snaps:
5th in PFF overall grade: 69.6
1st in pass rush grade: 74.5
9th in run defense grade: 60.7
1st in run stop percentage: 10.4%*
2nd in pass rush productivity: 5.7%*

*best of any Vikings DT in 2019

Krauser on Twitter



thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 9:42:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Armon Watts was really good as a rookie.

Of 19 rookie DT/DL playing 100+ snaps:
5th in PFF overall grade: 69.6
1st in pass rush grade: 74.5
9th in run defense grade: 60.7
1st in run stop percentage: 10.4%*
2nd in pass rush productivity: 5.7%*

*best of any Vikings DT in 2019

Krauser on Twitter


Those 2 together seem a bit odd.



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 11:06:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Armon Watts was really good as a rookie.

Of 19 rookie DT/DL playing 100+ snaps:
5th in PFF overall grade: 69.6
1st in pass rush grade: 74.5
9th in run defense grade: 60.7
1st in run stop percentage: 10.4%*
2nd in pass rush productivity: 5.7%*

*best of any Vikings DT in 2019

Krauser on Twitter



He was a late bloomer in college - only production his senior year. But I think he had 8 sacks his senior year. I think he's got a chance to be very good and lock down the 3T spot. Have him slide over to UT on 3rd downs and let Lynch or Mutaffa be our pass rushing specialists.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 11:47:46 AM)

When looking at an entire season, I don't 'throw out' things like longer runs of 20 yards. The right play call/audible plus good execution leads precisely to those outcomes. If the longer plays are going to be tossed, then so should those that ended up with a loss of yardage, no gain, or some other subjective metric.

Single games, different story. Frerotte's 99 yard pass to Berrian as an example.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 11:52:22 AM)

Winters is an IR waiting to happen.

2014
2016
2017
2019



Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 11:57:25 AM)

Bruce has it right. Looking at median might give more insight by eliminating outliers.

Another stat - eventual conversions on 2nd and long. What % of runs led to a pick up (on the second down or third down). Same for a pass on second down.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/3/2020 12:10:21 PM)

True in that a few 70+ yarders would skew the stats. But 20ish yard runs? No. Those are within a predictable outcome.

I shouldn't get involved with exclusion of subjective variables to support revised stats in analysis of 2nd-and-long situations.

Have at it.



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