RE: General Vikes Talk

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joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 6:58:00 PM)
If Udoh can play lg I say get him in there. That's the weakest spot on our oline.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 7:01:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu If Udoh can play lg I say get him in there. That's the weakest spot on our oline. LG would be my preference also assuming he can learn the nuances of the position. He seems like a smart guy.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 7:14:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve. I'm not getting what you want Pager. I'm in agreement with you that Udoh is pretty good. We are in agreement that he doesn't have the best of technique. It's like you think we disagree about something we don't disagree about. I can't believe my currently existing opinion is wrong. It's not possible. Did you provide me evidence that should cause me to change by mind about Udoh being a nimble guy? Run it by me again and I will reconsider. Your original premise was that he's not as well suited for T based on speed, technique, and agility. No argument with technique - he's a raw prospect, but technique can be learned (he'd have to learn it to play guard which you have suggest but didn't make the connection - Right now he has better T technique than G). Speed was with hundredths of a second of Ezra (going off memory). Wrong there. Agility/"clumsy" and overall T fit evidence I offered: Measurables - better than Reiff, Oneil, or Ezra RAS score - 8.1 is excellent and is not indicative of someone without agility or is clumsy. Vastly superior to Reiff - which you ignore, but in the past have stated is an above average T. Contrary evidence to clumsy as presented on pre-draft progression. Coming from a afterthought of a DIV 1 program. Got invited to Shrine Bowl, then practiced well enough to be invited to Senior bowl and NFL combine. ETC I'll stop now - I honestly hope we can use Ezra & Udoh if they are the best options anywhere on the line.

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 7:15:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager [&o] Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement. Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it. I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. [:D] If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh. Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth. [&:] Nice continuation

Pager -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 7:18:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve. I'm not getting what you want Pager. I'm in agreement with you that Udoh is pretty good. We are in agreement that he doesn't have the best of technique. It's like you think we disagree about something we don't disagree about. I can't believe my currently existing opinion is wrong. It's not possible. Did you provide me evidence that should cause me to change by mind about Udoh being a nimble guy? Run it by me again and I will reconsider. And away we go............. Sorry everyone - my fault. I usually avoid the vortex.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 7:34:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve. I'm not getting what you want Pager. I'm in agreement with you that Udoh is pretty good. We are in agreement that he doesn't have the best of technique. It's like you think we disagree about something we don't disagree about. I can't believe my currently existing opinion is wrong. It's not possible. Did you provide me evidence that should cause me to change by mind about Udoh being a nimble guy? Run it by me again and I will reconsider. Your original premise was that he's not as well suited for T based on speed, technique, and agility. No argument with technique - he's a raw prospect, but technique can be learned (he'd have to learn it to play guard which you have suggest but didn't make the connection - Right now he has better T technique than G). Speed was with hundredths of a second of Ezra (going off memory). Wrong there. Agility/"clumsy" and overall T fit evidence I offered: Measurables - better than Reiff, Oneil, or Ezra RAS score - 8.1 is excellent and is not indicative of someone without agility or is clumsy. Vastly superior to Reiff - which you ignore, but in the past have stated is an above average T. Contrary evidence to clumsy as presented on pre-draft progression. Coming from a afterthought of a DIV 1 program. Got invited to Shrine Bowl, then practiced well enough to be invited to Senior bowl and NFL combine. ETC I'll stop now - I honestly hope we can use Ezra & Udoh if they are the best options anywhere on the line. Good point that whatever position Udoh plays he will need to work on technique. I prefer Cleveland for the LT spot over placing him at guard and switching O'Neill to LT then playing Udoh at RT. When I say clumsy I mean relatively clumsy compared to Cleveland. I doubt if any NFL player of any kind is actually clumsy, however, Udoh's 18th percentile agility score isn't good comapratively, but hopefully it's getting better. If you're done so am I.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 7:47:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager [&o] Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement. Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it. I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. [:D] If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh. Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth. He argues for arguments sake just to wear people out so he can be right. He chased Brad out of the virus thread - no one gets the best of Brad

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 8:17:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager [&o] Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement. Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it. I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. [:D] If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh. Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth. He argues for arguments sake just to wear people out so he can be right. He chased Brad out of the virus thread - no one gets the best of Brad I did? I only see his posts when somebody quotes him.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/13/2020 10:40:15 PM)
2019 Clean Pocket EPA/Play per PFF: 1. Ryan Tannehill — 0.55 2. Matt Stafford — 0.54 3. Lamar Jackson — 0.46 4. Kirk Cousins — 0.42 5. Pat Mahomes — 0.39 6. Matt Ryan — 0.36 6. Dak Prescott — 0.36 8. Drew Brees — 0.34 8. Jameis Winston — 0.34 10. Russell Wilson/Jimmy G — 0.33 Nick Olson on Twitter

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 7:34:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game (Arif on Twitter) He didn't play week 17 right? So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints. My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him. I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game. I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter. You Bruce are an ageist. In sports that's not always a bad thing to be. However, I have made a living in fantasy sports by drafting older players that slide way too far in drafts because people tend to think they are too old at least a year or two before they are too old. Griffen got a one year contract....nothing close to the multi-year contract he wanted. He isn't a star any more but a complementary player. I would have rather kept Weatherly then Griffen. In addition we have to get younger and Joseph & Griffen were making good money. Griffen was scheduled to make 13.9 million but it wasn't guaranteed....pretty simple reason why he left---he was a little upset he didn't get that money and he thought he could get it elsewhere. 32 now and turning 33 in December.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 8:04:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game (Arif on Twitter) He didn't play week 17 right? So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints. My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him. I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game. I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter. You Bruce are an ageist. In sports that's not always a bad thing to be. However, I have made a living in fantasy sports by drafting older players that slide way too far in drafts because people tend to think they are too old at least a year or two before they are too old. Griffen got a one year contract....nothing close to the multi-year contract he wanted. He isn't a star any more but a complementary player. I would have rather kept Weatherly then Griffen. In addition we have to get younger and Joseph & Griffen were making good money. Griffen was scheduled to make 13.9 million but it wasn't guaranteed....pretty simple reason why he left---he was a little upset he didn't get that money and he thought he could get it elsewhere. 32 now and turning 33 in December. We still need to find that 2nd consistent pass rusher. Whether it is another DE or DT or LB. Candidates are Oden, Hercules, Barr, Lynch. Maybe Watts turns into a monster.

eagleflorida -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 8:24:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve. I'm not getting what you want Pager. I'm in agreement with you that Udoh is pretty good. We are in agreement that he doesn't have the best of technique. It's like you think we disagree about something we don't disagree about. I can't believe my currently existing opinion is wrong. It's not possible. Did you provide me evidence that should cause me to change by mind about Udoh being a nimble guy? Run it by me again and I will reconsider. And away we go............. Gu Sorry everyone - my fault. I usually avoid the vortex. VORTEX. The perfect description of the results he causes to the discussions. He has a response of sorts to nearlly every post 24/7. Guy must never sleep. Must have some severe deep state insomnia issues. [:-]

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 8:39:48 AM)
When does full contact start at camp?

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 10:27:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson When does full contact start at camp? I could be corrected, but I believe it is Monday. It will be available to watch on a number of venues, including youtube which I can get on my tv. There is going to be a number of voices over the broadcast chiming in on what they see and what they think.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 10:48:34 AM)
A lot has been said about the Vikings interior OL and the impact on their potential success.. I’m going a different direction and will say Minnesota’s success in 2020 will be based on how quickly and how well the young core of CBs adapt to the NFL #VikingsCamp (Rick Sosa on Twitter) Football is a team sport and we are going to need a number of younger players to step up in both areas. In the case of the o-line it may not necessarily be by rookies, but for CB's, yes, rookies will have to make the adjustment right away to the Sunday football.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 10:55:24 AM)
Fred Cox attempted just 24 FGs of 50 yards or more in his NFL career, and made only 2. Here is a 51 yarder that was no good in 1969 vs the Cardinals. With less amount of the foot on a ball as compared to soccer-style kickers, conventional kickers had little margin for error. (Vike Fans on Twitter) He was also less accurate from shorter distances. He was a chiropractor during the off-season and he invented the nerf football. From my perspective, he lacked the advantage of today's players of playing and working on their athletic craft throughout the entire year.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 10:59:03 AM)
Who do you suspect will be the "Mr. Mankato"? Here are the odds: https://www.skornorth.com/2020/08/the-official-2020-mr-mankato-odds-are-out-highlighting-under-the-radar-vikings-players/

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 10:59:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager [&o] Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement. Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it. I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. [:D] If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh. Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth. He argues for arguments sake just to wear people out so he can be right. He chased Brad out of the virus thread - no one gets the best of Brad Brad was pummeled. So much so he deleted all his posts as if they were official documents for the record.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 11:07:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eagleflorida quote: ORIGINAL: Pager quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Pager Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve. I'm not getting what you want Pager. I'm in agreement with you that Udoh is pretty good. We are in agreement that he doesn't have the best of technique. It's like you think we disagree about something we don't disagree about. I can't believe my currently existing opinion is wrong. It's not possible. Did you provide me evidence that should cause me to change by mind about Udoh being a nimble guy? Run it by me again and I will reconsider. And away we go............. Gu Sorry everyone - my fault. I usually avoid the vortex. VORTEX. The perfect description of the results he causes to the discussions. He has a response of sorts to nearlly every post 24/7. Guy must never sleep. Must have some severe deep state insomnia issues. [:-] You and Ricky have pointed out how he has to get involved in every topic. Bad enough but he has an abnormality where he has to split hairs to the millionth degree, and keep pounding away his points to be right. You'd think when half of the board says you are jacked up that maybe he'd get a clue. If anything, it just gets worse. Maybe it's living in a town of 500 in the desert. Chicken and egg thing.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 11:09:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson A lot has been said about the Vikings interior OL and the impact on their potential success.. I’m going a different direction and will say Minnesota’s success in 2020 will be based on how quickly and how well the young core of CBs adapt to the NFL #VikingsCamp (Rick Sosa on Twitter) Football is a team sport and we are going to need a number of younger players to step up in both areas. In the case of the o-line it may not necessarily be by rookies, but for CB's, yes, rookies will have to make the adjustment right away to the Sunday football. Wow, CBs comprised of rookies and part-timers in the most difficult position outside of QB to master. Way for that guy to go out on a limb.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 11:37:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson When does full contact start at camp? I could be corrected, but I believe it is Monday. It will be available to watch on a number of venues, including youtube which I can get on my tv. There is going to be a number of voices over the broadcast chiming in on what they see and what they think. Nice.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 11:45:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Who do you suspect will be the "Mr. Mankato"? Here are the odds: https://www.skornorth.com/2020/08/the-official-2020-mr-mankato-odds-are-out-highlighting-under-the-radar-vikings-players/ Kyle Hinton

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 12:00:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson Fred Cox attempted just 24 FGs of 50 yards or more in his NFL career, and made only 2. Here is a 51 yarder that was no good in 1969 vs the Cardinals. With less amount of the foot on a ball as compared to soccer-style kickers, conventional kickers had little margin for error. Unless you were kicking with half of a foot.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 12:10:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game (Arif on Twitter) He didn't play week 17 right? So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints. My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him. I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game. I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter. You Bruce are an ageist. In sports that's not always a bad thing to be. However, I have made a living in fantasy sports by drafting older players that slide way too far in drafts because people tend to think they are too old at least a year or two before they are too old. Griffen got a one year contract....nothing close to the multi-year contract he wanted. He isn't a star any more but a complementary player. I would have rather kept Weatherly then Griffen. In addition we have to get younger and Joseph & Griffen were making good money. Griffen was scheduled to make 13.9 million but it wasn't guaranteed....pretty simple reason why he left---he was a little upset he didn't get that money and he thought he could get it elsewhere. 32 now and turning 33 in December. Mostly agree with you. Griffen was not worth the 13.9 contract and the Vikings would have cut him. He decided to opt out before that happened. However, I think Griffen is still quite good and easily better than Weatherly. I think he will turn out to be a bargain for the Cowpukes and help them make the playoffs this year.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (8/14/2020 12:11:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game (Arif on Twitter) He didn't play week 17 right? So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints. My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him. I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game. I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter. You Bruce are an ageist. In sports that's not always a bad thing to be. However, I have made a living in fantasy sports by drafting older players that slide way too far in drafts because people tend to think they are too old at least a year or two before they are too old. Griffen got a one year contract....nothing close to the multi-year contract he wanted. He isn't a star any more but a complementary player. I would have rather kept Weatherly then Griffen. In addition we have to get younger and Joseph & Griffen were making good money. Griffen was scheduled to make 13.9 million but it wasn't guaranteed....pretty simple reason why he left---he was a little upset he didn't get that money and he thought he could get it elsewhere. 32 now and turning 33 in December. We still need to find that 2nd consistent pass rusher. Whether it is another DE or DT or LB. Candidates are Oden, Hercules, Barr, Lynch. Maybe Watts turns into a monster. Odin Bigo will definitely be that 2nd consistent pass rusher. I'm expecting around 10 sacks from him.

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