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Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:20:32 AM)

Barring offseason firings, there will be parallel universes in the offseason discussion, (moreso than usual):
- What the regime thinks as they look to the #1 priority of job security
- What the fan base (or at least some) thinks

For example, we need to jettison some of these high contracts. Replace Reiff with, gasp, Cleveland. Stop Chad-Greenwaying Rudolph and cut him. Harris UFA. Smith, re-negotiate. Yeah there is dead cap involved, put on your big boy pants and accept it.

Spielman may think completely opposite at the expense of not fielding a complete roster.




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:21:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

This will be a good team next year.

And Cousins will have his most successful season of his career by a long shot.

Bookmark it! (oh the good ol' days, huh?)


I'm there with you.


Atta boy!

Cousins is a disaster. The guy has 18 turnovers this season. Only Carson Wentz has more.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:22:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I think we remain at 14th in the draft. Maybe take an undersized guard. Zone blocking and all.

I get the whole concept that the modern lineman needs to be athletic enough to get off his first block and move to the next tier. The problem is that it only works if you can effectively if you can move that first guy. How many times have we seen that 3rd or 4th and really shortage play get stuffed in the backfield because because the middle of the other guys D line blew through the middle of our O line like shit through a goose.


Was thinking that while posting the blurb. It all sounds great on paper except as you say, the plays where you need to win the battle at the LOS, and of course passing plays.




geoffrey greitzer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:25:12 AM)

OL...OL..OL
Get big nasty guards. Put Bradbury on a major bulking up off season.

drop down from 14 to get late first and a second to go OL. Anyone see how long rivers has to throw in indy?

Kubiak is a joke...shitty OL and slow developing plays...Cousins is not the problem

Smith...over the hype about him. I'll take Cronklin....Rudy, barr, harris gone. trade smith for 3rd.

Zimmer should go as well...Slick here's the door as well.




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:27:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

OL...OL..OL
Get big nasty guards. Put Bradbury on a major bulking up off season.

drop down from 14 to get late first and a second to go OL. Anyone see how long rivers has to throw in indy?

Kubiak is a joke...shitty OL and slow developing plays...Cousins is not the problem

Smith...over the hype about him. I'll take Cronklin....Rudy, barr, harris gone. trade smith for 3rd.

Zimmer should go as well...Slick here's the door as well.

Cousins is one of the worst 10 starting QB's in the league ... and he's making $33-million a year. Only Carson Wentz has more turnovers this season. If you look at QB salaries, he and Goff are killing their franchises. Way too many turnovers.

Rodgers salary: $33.5-million
Cousins salary: $33-million

I'd rather have Sam Darnold at this point.




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:32:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I think we remain at 14th in the draft. Maybe take an undersized guard. Zone blocking and all.

I get the whole concept that the modern lineman needs to be athletic enough to get off his first block and move to the next tier. The problem is that it only works if you can effectively if you can move that first guy. How many times have we seen that 3rd or 4th and really shortage play get stuffed in the backfield because because the middle of the other guys D line blew through the middle of our O line like shit through a goose.


Was thinking that while posting the blurb. It all sounds great on paper except as you say, the plays where you need to win the battle at the LOS, and of course passing plays.

Exactly! The bottom line for O-line play is if you can't win that initial battle, nothing else you do on the play matters.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:33:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

OL...OL..OL
Get big nasty guards. Put Bradbury on a major bulking up off season.

drop down from 14 to get late first and a second to go OL. Anyone see how long rivers has to throw in indy?

Kubiak is a joke...shitty OL and slow developing plays...Cousins is not the problem

Smith...over the hype about him. I'll take Cronklin....Rudy, barr, harris gone. trade smith for 3rd.

Zimmer should go as well...Slick here's the door as well.



14 trade down = 26th overall and 18th in the 2nd round. Do it.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:34:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

OL...OL..OL
Get big nasty guards. Put Bradbury on a major bulking up off season.

drop down from 14 to get late first and a second to go OL. Anyone see how long rivers has to throw in indy?

Kubiak is a joke...shitty OL and slow developing plays...Cousins is not the problem

Smith...over the hype about him. I'll take Cronklin....Rudy, barr, harris gone. trade smith for 3rd.

Zimmer should go as well...Slick here's the door as well.

Cousins is one of the worst 10 starting QB's in the league ... and he's making $33-million a year. Only Carson Wentz has more turnovers this season. If you look at QB salaries, he and Goff are killing their franchises. Way too many turnovers.

Rodgers salary: $33.5-million
Cousins salary: $33-million

I'd rather have Sam Darnold at this point.



Don't look at the rest of Cousins' contract.......




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:35:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

OL...OL..OL
Get big nasty guards. Put Bradbury on a major bulking up off season.

drop down from 14 to get late first and a second to go OL. Anyone see how long rivers has to throw in indy?

Kubiak is a joke...shitty OL and slow developing plays...Cousins is not the problem

Smith...over the hype about him. I'll take Cronklin....Rudy, barr, harris gone. trade smith for 3rd.

Zimmer should go as well...Slick here's the door as well.

14 trade down = 26th overall and 18th in the 2nd round. Do it.

The only problem is that it starts a chain reaction that leaves us without a 3rd and 4th round pick and 8 picks in the 7th round.




geoffrey greitzer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:35:46 AM)

Brad, Have you seen the improvement in cousins in the last 5 or 6 games?

moving in pocket better, not great, but better.

Running at times. mostly for his life.

is overpaid, but have little choice for another year.

OL and play calling a bigger problem.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:35:58 AM)

There's a decent chance Yannick Ngakoue ends the season as the Vikings' leader in sacks. He was traded after Week 6. Ngakoue had five sacks with the Vikings. Ifeadi Odenigbo has the second-most with 3.5.

Chad Graff on Twitter




geoffrey greitzer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:36:59 AM)

I think the Vikings have a ton of 3rd and 4th round picks




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:37:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I think we remain at 14th in the draft. Maybe take an undersized guard. Zone blocking and all.

I get the whole concept that the modern lineman needs to be athletic enough to get off his first block and move to the next tier. The problem is that it only works if you can effectively if you can move that first guy. How many times have we seen that 3rd or 4th and really shortage play get stuffed in the backfield because because the middle of the other guys D line blew through the middle of our O line like shit through a goose.


Was thinking that while posting the blurb. It all sounds great on paper except as you say, the plays where you need to win the battle at the LOS, and of course passing plays.

Exactly! The bottom line for O-line play is if you can't that initial battle, nothing else you do on the play matters.


Offseason visions: OL fires off the ball taking all sorts of angles... decimating the DL... suddenly the OL is at the second level! Cook is off to the races!

Inseason reality: Cook up the middle for 2 yards.




Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:39:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

There's a decent chance Yannick Ngakoue ends the season as the Vikings' leader in sacks. He was traded after Week 6. Ngakoue had five sacks with the Vikings. Ifeadi Odenigbo has the second-most with 3.5.

Chad Graff on Twitter

We have bigger needs but we need to find the next great Viking 3 Technique. Page, Millard, Randle, KWill, ????




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:40:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

I think the Vikings have a ton of 3rd and 4th round picks


Only on paper. On draft days 2/3, RS will be salivating at the trade down options.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:40:14 AM)

Uh oh. An empty stadium means the microphones are able to pick up more of the on-field chatter. Justin Jefferson had something to say after a play. Here's the actual clip and it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK - it has the F word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8AfE6ucjk

And here's a story on it

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/20/justin-jefferson-says-hes-no-diva-in-response-to-clip-of-him-yelling-about-kirk-cousins/


Thielen was dissatisfied and called out Cousins

Diggs was dissatisfied and forced a trade

Now it starts with Jefferson, boy that didn't take long.




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:40:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Brad, Have you seen the improvement in cousins in the last 5 or 6 games?

moving in pocket better, not great, but better.

Running at times. mostly for his life.

is overpaid, but have little choice for another year.

OL and play calling a bigger problem.

I agree the o-line has sucked. But Cousins is Cousins at this point. He's not changing. The guy has zero pocket presence, can't feel pressure and is not a leader of men. He's had three years to prove otherwise. Two games in, Jalen Hurts is already twice the quarterback with almost no talent around him in Philly.

If he's the starting quarterback 12 months from now, we'll be having the exact same discussion.




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:40:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Brad, Have you seen the improvement in cousins in the last 5 or 6 games?

moving in pocket better, not great, but better.

Running at times. mostly for his life.

is overpaid, but have little choice for another year.

OL and play calling a bigger problem.

Bottom line is that Cousins is not worth anything close to what he is being paid. He is also not close to one of the ten worst QB in football.




geoffrey greitzer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:41:14 AM)

A good qb is great with a solid OL

a decent QB is good with a solid OL.

does anyone think that cousins is not at least decent?

Don't waste a jewel in cook. Bill u r right about cook




TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:42:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Uh oh. An empty stadium means the microphones are able to pick up more of the on-field chatter. Justin Jefferson had something to say after a play. Here's the actual clip and it is NOT SAFE FOR WORK - it has the F word.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8AfE6ucjk

And here's a story on it

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/20/justin-jefferson-says-hes-no-diva-in-response-to-clip-of-him-yelling-about-kirk-cousins/


Thielen was dissatisfied and called out Cousins

Diggs was dissatisfied and forced a trade

Now it starts with Jefferson, boy that didn't take long.

I remember somebody posting yesterday that Pete Bercich was saying that Jefferson was open most of the day.




Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:42:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

I think we remain at 14th in the draft. Maybe take an undersized guard. Zone blocking and all.

I get the whole concept that the modern lineman needs to be athletic enough to get off his first block and move to the next tier. The problem is that it only works if you can effectively if you can move that first guy. How many times have we seen that 3rd or 4th and really shortage play get stuffed in the backfield because because the middle of the other guys D line blew through the middle of our O line like shit through a goose.


Was thinking that while posting the blurb. It all sounds great on paper except as you say, the plays where you need to win the battle at the LOS, and of course passing plays.

Exactly! The bottom line for O-line play is if you can't that initial battle, nothing else you do on the play matters.


Offseason visions: OL fires off the ball taking all sorts of angles... decimating the DL... suddenly the OL is at the second level! Cook is off to the races!

Inseason reality: Cook up the middle for 2 yards.

When we were down 2 scores yesterday, we were on fire. Crisp passes, running plays that caught them off balance , lots of YAC.

Then we get in a position to win the game(down 3) and we go into turtle mode.




Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:42:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Brad, Have you seen the improvement in cousins in the last 5 or 6 games?

moving in pocket better, not great, but better.

Running at times. mostly for his life.

is overpaid, but have little choice for another year.

OL and play calling a bigger problem.

Bottom line is that Cousins is not worth anything close to what he is being paid. He is also not close to one of the ten worst QB in football.

Name 10 starting quarterbacks that are worse.

Mullens
Lock
Goff
Jones




geoffrey greitzer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:43:36 AM)

Got any ideas on new QB?

cant get one in first round and also upgrade OL

plus contract is what it is.

Book? in late rounds?




Bruce Johnson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:43:41 AM)

Jaleel Johnson and Shamar Stephen rank last and second-to-last in pass rush win rate among qualified defensive tackles this year. Adding a three-tech who can get after the QB to pair with Michael Pierce at NT has to be very high on the #Vikings' priority list for this offseason.

Will Ragatz on Twitter




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2020 10:44:36 AM)

Strategy for 2020: draft a record setting number of players knowing the time to actually evaluate them will be cut in half.

It's what happens when the GM has what appears to be carte blanche. Mr. All-Powerful.

Like Moss falling to Denny Green. Suddenly he's a genius. Next year he takes Underwood w/o even talking to the Michigan St. coaches.




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