RE: Covid 19 and those infected

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Daniel Lee Young -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:07:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Pretty sure the Bubonic plague wiped out entire villages and towns leaving no one alive in it's wake. Exactly. That was a deadly pandemic. Is COVID-19 a deadly pandemic? Like Lynn said it's a question of how you define it. Bill do you know anybody who has died from COVID-19? No. keeping my fingers crossed though. I know a number of people who have died from it. Neighbor across the street lost his wife, neighbor just north has it and was sent home for hospice care.. so death could be any day. I could go on, but why? Those who choose to treat this as “ overblown malarkey”.. are unfathomably stubborn and narrow minded. No offense intended, but come the Fq on, man. Do you WANT a family member or friend or acquaintance to DIE, before you “believe”? Daniel thanks for being the first to share about knowing somebody who has died from COVID-19 on this message board. I don't know of anybody on this board who has referred to COVID-19 concerns as malarkey of any kind. I think it is dangerous and everybody should take reasonable precautions against it. Do you feel we should not go out in public under any circumstances such as shopping for needed household items and food? Am I not taking reasonable precautions by going to a restaurant to eat about once every two weeks while sitting by myself and wearing a mask any time that I'm not actively putting food in my mouth? Wear a mask in public... not at home, not in your car. On public transportation, mask on. If you choose to go “ out to eat” in a restaurant or fast food place, realize that you are stepping into an unregulated Petri dish of invisible asymptomatic carriers, and risking “ brining it home“ or becoming a community spread vector. I consider it selfish and highly irresponsible to act as if you have no responsibility to consider the consequences of your actions on others. Driving, shopping, traveling, gathering together in large groups, going out to eat... all actions that require a certain level of personal responsibility. Some things like shopping or work or going to the doctor are necessary, but there are considerate precautions that should be taken, despite the self centered feeling of “infringing my rights” that is so prevalent and annoyingly ignorant. This Pandemic is NOT just about “ me and my wants and needs”. I, personally wear a mask everywhere I go with public contact, yes, even at the drive thru at the bank.. and I have 90% alcohol hand sanitizer with me at all times. I am 63, type A+ blood, and at my age, “ underlying health issues” is a given. Needless to say, I see way more pandemic denial people doing their best to become a vector. Karma is a bitch.

David Levine -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:30:30 PM)
I obviously love sports. I spend far too much time and money on them to think otherwise. But I wouldn't be the least bit upset if they announced all sports were suspended until we get this thing figured out. And I really can't wrap my head around the idea of "As long as I do everything I can to protect myself, everyone else should just get back on with their lives". Because that's basically what the "Its time for sports and entertainment to ramp back up" crowd is saying.

Ricky J -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:31:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Pretty sure the Bubonic plague wiped out entire villages and towns leaving no one alive in it's wake. Exactly. That was a deadly pandemic. Is COVID-19 a deadly pandemic? Like Lynn said it's a question of how you define it. Bill do you know anybody who has died from COVID-19? No. keeping my fingers crossed though. I know a number of people who have died from it. Neighbor across the street lost his wife, neighbor just north has it and was sent home for hospice care.. so death could be any day. I could go on, but why? Those who choose to treat this as “ overblown malarkey”.. are unfathomably stubborn and narrow minded. No offense intended, but come the Fq on, man. Do you WANT a family member or friend or acquaintance to DIE, before you “believe”? Daniel thanks for being the first to share about knowing somebody who has died from COVID-19 on this message board. I don't know of anybody on this board who has referred to COVID-19 concerns as malarkey of any kind. I think it is dangerous and everybody should take reasonable precautions against it. Do you feel we should not go out in public under any circumstances such as shopping for needed household items and food? Am I not taking reasonable precautions by going to a restaurant to eat about once every two weeks while sitting by myself and wearing a mask any time that I'm not actively putting food in my mouth? Wear a mask in public... not at home, not in your car. On public transportation, mask on. If you choose to go “ out to eat” in a restaurant or fast food place, realize that you are stepping into an unregulated Petri dish of invisible asymptomatic carriers, and risking “ brining it home or becoming a community spread vector. I consider it selfis and highly irresponsible to act as if you have no responsibility to consider the consequences of your actions on others. Driving, shopping, traveling, gathering together in large groups, going out to eat... Some things like shopping or work or going to the doctor are necessary, but there are considerate precautions that should be taken, despite the self centered feeling of “infringing my rights” that is so prevalent and annoyingly ignorant. This Pandemic is NOT just about “ me and my wants and needs”. I, personally wear a mask everywhere I go with public contact, yes, even at the drive thru at the bank.. and I have 90% alcohol hand sanitizer with me at all times. I am 63, type A+ blood, and at my age, “ underlying health issues” is a given. Needless to say, I see way more pandemic denial people doing their best to become a vector. Karma is a bitch. Yeah, it is ... so is getting 90% alcohol. Other than that I hear ya, Dan! It's crazy some places, communities, are so much more aware than others. Decorah, masks every where .... some other places, not so much. Personally, I like wearing a mask. I said it long ago, that when this is over I'm gonna continue to wear one - hopefully we'll see that time in the near future - things I do and love to do: ride my bike long distances, golf in the evenings when few are around - always been that way- , boating ...

kgdabom -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:33:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Pretty sure the Bubonic plague wiped out entire villages and towns leaving no one alive in it's wake. Exactly. That was a deadly pandemic. Is COVID-19 a deadly pandemic? Like Lynn said it's a question of how you define it. Bill do you know anybody who has died from COVID-19? No. keeping my fingers crossed though. I know a number of people who have died from it. Neighbor across the street lost his wife, neighbor just north has it and was sent home for hospice care.. so death could be any day. I could go on, but why? Those who choose to treat this as “ overblown malarkey”.. are unfathomably stubborn and narrow minded. No offense intended, but come the Fq on, man. Do you WANT a family member or friend or acquaintance to DIE, before you “believe”? Daniel thanks for being the first to share about knowing somebody who has died from COVID-19 on this message board. I don't know of anybody on this board who has referred to COVID-19 concerns as malarkey of any kind. I think it is dangerous and everybody should take reasonable precautions against it. Do you feel we should not go out in public under any circumstances such as shopping for needed household items and food? Am I not taking reasonable precautions by going to a restaurant to eat about once every two weeks while sitting by myself and wearing a mask any time that I'm not actively putting food in my mouth? Wear a mask in public... not at home, not in your car. On public transportation, mask on. If you choose to go “ out to eat” in a restaurant or fast food place, realize that you are stepping into an unregulated Petri dish of invisible asymptomatic carriers, and risking “ brining it home“ or becoming a community spread vector. I consider it selfish and highly irresponsible to act as if you have no responsibility to consider the consequences of your actions on others. Driving, shopping, traveling, gathering together in large groups, going out to eat... all actions that require a certain level of personal responsibility. Some things like shopping or work or going to the doctor are necessary, but there are considerate precautions that should be taken, despite the self centered feeling of “infringing my rights” that is so prevalent and annoyingly ignorant. This Pandemic is NOT just about “ me and my wants and needs”. I, personally wear a mask everywhere I go with public contact, yes, even at the drive thru at the bank.. and I have 90% alcohol hand sanitizer with me at all times. I am 63, type A+ blood, and at my age, “ underlying health issues” is a given. Needless to say, I see way more pandemic denial people doing their best to become a vector. Karma is a bitch. Part of me going out to eat while wearing my mask and hand sanitizing is I want to support the businesses. Part of it is it helps my mental health getting out of the house and doing some life type events. Since restaurants are allowed to be open I'm of the belief it must be reasonably safe while following the recommended precautions or they would not be allowed to be open.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:40:20 PM)
I am not faulting you at all. We support local businesses via solo trips, using contactless delivery, and other relatively safer option to accomplish necessary actions. As I said, I am in a relatively higher risk category, as is my wife, who has asthma and other issues at age 47. We are very cautious.

bohumm -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:46:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Pretty sure the Bubonic plague wiped out entire villages and towns leaving no one alive in it's wake. Exactly. That was a deadly pandemic. Is COVID-19 a deadly pandemic? Like Lynn said it's a question of how you define it. Bill do you know anybody who has died from COVID-19? No. keeping my fingers crossed though. I know a number of people who have died from it. Neighbor across the street lost his wife, neighbor just north has it and was sent home for hospice care.. so death could be any day. I could go on, but why? Those who choose to treat this as “ overblown malarkey”.. are unfathomably stubborn and narrow minded. No offense intended, but come the Fq on, man. Do you WANT a family member or friend or acquaintance to DIE, before you “believe”? Daniel thanks for being the first to share about knowing somebody who has died from COVID-19 on this message board. I don't know of anybody on this board who has referred to COVID-19 concerns as malarkey of any kind. I think it is dangerous and everybody should take reasonable precautions against it. Do you feel we should not go out in public under any circumstances such as shopping for needed household items and food? Am I not taking reasonable precautions by going to a restaurant to eat about once every two weeks while sitting by myself and wearing a mask any time that I'm not actively putting food in my mouth? Wear a mask in public... not at home, not in your car. On public transportation, mask on. If you choose to go “ out to eat” in a restaurant or fast food place, realize that you are stepping into an unregulated Petri dish of invisible asymptomatic carriers, and risking “ brining it home or becoming a community spread vector. I consider it selfis and highly irresponsible to act as if you have no responsibility to consider the consequences of your actions on others. Driving, shopping, traveling, gathering together in large groups, going out to eat... Some things like shopping or work or going to the doctor are necessary, but there are considerate precautions that should be taken, despite the self centered feeling of “infringing my rights” that is so prevalent and annoyingly ignorant. This Pandemic is NOT just about “ me and my wants and needs”. I, personally wear a mask everywhere I go with public contact, yes, even at the drive thru at the bank.. and I have 90% alcohol hand sanitizer with me at all times. I am 63, type A+ blood, and at my age, “ underlying health issues” is a given. Needless to say, I see way more pandemic denial people doing their best to become a vector. Karma is a bitch. Yeah, it is ... so is getting 90% alcohol. Other than that I hear ya, Dan! It's crazy some places, communities, are so much more aware than others. Decorah, masks every where .... some other places, not so much. Personally, I like wearing a mask. I said it long ago, that when this is over I'm gonna continue to wear one - hopefully we'll see that time in the near future - things I do and love to do: ride my bike long distances, golf in the evenings when few are around - always been that way- , boating ... 70% alcohol is fine, and actually much better for surfaces, etc.

bohumm -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:48:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young I am not faulting you at all. We support local businesses via solo trips, using contactless delivery, and other relatively safer option to accomplish necessary actions. As I said, I am in a relatively higher risk category, as is my wife, who has asthma and other issues at age 47. We are very cautious. Glad to see this. It's important for us to be responsible for ourselves to the fullest extent; it is equally important that we are responsible to each other. This is actually the basis for the last part of our Declaration of Independence, for the originalist/founding documents crowd.

David Levine -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 2:55:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm 70% alcohol is fine, and actually much better for surfaces, etc. 60% ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) or 70% isopropanol is what the CDC recommends. We use a 64% ethanol because it doesn't dry out our hands and has a minimal odor compared to many others.

kgdabom -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 3:06:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm 70% alcohol is fine, and actually much better for surfaces, etc. 60% ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) or 70% isopropanol is what the CDC recommends. We use a 64% ethanol because it doesn't dry out our hands and has a minimal odor compared to many others. I love the odor of hand sanitizers. [:D]

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:01:24 PM)
I use WHO recipe but up the ante with everclear as the base sanitizer.... [:D] Bought a bottle when isopropyl was rarer than toilet paper... 22 $ for a fifth, served me well when I was daily handing cash and dealing with the mask less entitled at the gas station.

Bruce Johnson -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:20:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lynn G. The data on young, healthy people has morphed to show that they are quite vulnerable, which is the opposite of what the early thoughts were. This is the perfect example of how information will move recommendations as we learn more about this novel virus. Let's not blame the scientists for what they didn't know early on, but rather laud them for the continued study and their recommendations as more information becomes available. In Minnesota there has been only one Covid death for anyone under the age of 20. There may have been other issues with that one child- I don't know. Obviously one death is too many, but it's good to make the point that children can catch Covid at home or when they're with Mom shopping or visiting friends and family as well. I'm sure that the number of children exposed to Covid is much more than reported, but still there is the one death. I have heard that in other countries where children have returned to school they are not having a lot of serious issues with Covid with the children. I have read that there is an increase in abuse of children during this Covid outbreak. It's also a problem for many families where one parent has to remain home or expensive day care is required. I recognize that there is another side of the issue, as there is for every issue. It's a matter of how we balance the issue. Then there is the matter of their education. I heard that on any given day, 30% of the children do not even log onto their computers for their schooling. I'm sure it is better for older children than younger. I do think online education for college is a good idea, but those are young adults that invest in the classes and are more motivated to participate. That's what I believe, but I've been told that's not necessarily the case. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situation.html#ageg1

David Levine -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:29:07 PM)
So instead dying, how many will become "little incubators" of Covid and pass it on to their families? I also don't think its fair to compare us to other countries when almost all of them have handled the pandemic MUCH better than we have.

joejitsu -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:44:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm 70% alcohol is fine, and actually much better for surfaces, etc. 60% ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) or 70% isopropanol is what the CDC recommends. We use a 64% ethanol because it doesn't dry out our hands and has a minimal odor compared to many others. I've been getting by with 43 percent alcohol the whole stay in place protocol time. 86 proof is 43 percent alcohol, right? Seriously, I just want to get back to normal. If I have to wear a mask, social distance, and avoid crowds for a while, so be it.

joejitsu -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:48:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine So instead dying, how many will become "little incubators" of Covid and pass it on to their families? I also don't think its fair to compare us to other countries when almost all of them have handled the pandemic MUCH better than we have. Do you think that most other countries and their models of central government have something to do with it? That's something that I've been thinking about. We have 50 states who all kind of do things differently. I live in northwest Indiana, and I work in Illinois, and there are two different approaches between each state on dealing with the virus.

unome -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:48:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine We can't get adults to social distance or consistently wear masks, how does anyone expect children to be better? Yes, I do expect them to be better. Although, adults are pretty good also when they do not have a choice, but children are used to requirements at school. It is 12:15, now I go to this class, I have to be quiet, I have to do this assignment.

David Levine -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:50:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine We can't get adults to social distance or consistently wear masks, how does anyone expect children to be better? Yes, I do expect them to be better. Although, adults are pretty good also when they do not have a choice, but children are used to requirements at school. It is 12:15, now I go to this class, I have to be quiet, I have to do this assignment. I fully expect the younger ones to lick their hands and chase after their classmates yelling "COVID!!!!!"

David Levine -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:51:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine So instead dying, how many will become "little incubators" of Covid and pass it on to their families? I also don't think its fair to compare us to other countries when almost all of them have handled the pandemic MUCH better than we have. Do you think that most other countries and their models of central government have something to do with it? That's something that I've been thinking about. We have 50 states who all kind of do things differently. I live in northwest Indiana, and I work in Illinois, and there are two different approaches between each state on dealing with the virus. I think we have far too many people that if they're told to do something, scream "COMMUNISM!".

unome -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:55:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine So instead dying, how many will become "little incubators" of Covid and pass it on to their families? I also don't think its fair to compare us to other countries when almost all of them have handled the pandemic MUCH better than we have. Do you think that most other countries and their models of central government have something to do with it? That's something that I've been thinking about. We have 50 states who all kind of do things differently. I live in northwest Indiana, and I work in Illinois, and there are two different approaches between each state on dealing with the virus. The problem was not federalism, the problem is we had the wrong guy leading the central government. Had Trump just pushed hard for masks to be worn and not made mask-wearing into a political thing, we would be far better off. It is really hard to underestimate how much effect smart social distancing and mask-wearing have on the spread of the disease. They do not end it, of course, but when you can slash the Effective Reproduction Number as early as possible and get this number to stay below 1.0, or less than one transmission on average per infected person, than the virus spread is not much on an issue. Of course, Trump did finally say mask-wearing is "patriotic" so he finally gets it, just four months too late.

unome -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:56:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine We can't get adults to social distance or consistently wear masks, how does anyone expect children to be better? Yes, I do expect them to be better. Although, adults are pretty good also when they do not have a choice, but children are used to requirements at school. It is 12:15, now I go to this class, I have to be quiet, I have to do this assignment. I fully expect the younger ones to lick their hands and chase after their classmates yelling "COVID!!!!!" Some will, at first, but like any bad behavior, this can be dealt with.

joejitsu -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 4:57:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine So instead dying, how many will become "little incubators" of Covid and pass it on to their families? I also don't think its fair to compare us to other countries when almost all of them have handled the pandemic MUCH better than we have. Do you think that most other countries and their models of central government have something to do with it? That's something that I've been thinking about. We have 50 states who all kind of do things differently. I live in northwest Indiana, and I work in Illinois, and there are two different approaches between each state on dealing with the virus. I think we have far too many people that if they're told to do something, scream "COMMUNISM!". That's a fair point, David.

David Levine -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 5:03:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine So instead dying, how many will become "little incubators" of Covid and pass it on to their families? I also don't think its fair to compare us to other countries when almost all of them have handled the pandemic MUCH better than we have. Do you think that most other countries and their models of central government have something to do with it? That's something that I've been thinking about. We have 50 states who all kind of do things differently. I live in northwest Indiana, and I work in Illinois, and there are two different approaches between each state on dealing with the virus. The problem was not federalism, the problem is we had the wrong guy leading the central government. Had Trump just pushed hard for masks to be worn and not made mask-wearing into a political thing, we would be far better off. It is really hard to underestimate how much effect smart social distancing and mask-wearing have on the spread of the disease. They do not end it, of course, but when you can slash the Effective Reproduction Number as early as possible and get this number to stay below 1.0, or less than one transmission on average per infected person, than the virus spread is not much on an issue. Of course, Trump did finally say mask-wearing is "patriotic" so he finally gets it, just four months too late. Yup. We completely wasted months by only using half-assed measures and then trying to reopen too soon. And just like that we're back where we started (or possibly, worse).

Bill Johanesen -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 5:38:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Lynn G. The data on young, healthy people has morphed to show that they are quite vulnerable, which is the opposite of what the early thoughts were. This is the perfect example of how information will move recommendations as we learn more about this novel virus. Let's not blame the scientists for what they didn't know early on, but rather laud them for the continued study and their recommendations as more information becomes available. In Minnesota there has been only one Covid death for anyone under the age of 20. There may have been other issues with that one child- I don't know. Obviously one death is too many, but it's good to make the point that children can catch Covid at home or when they're with Mom shopping or visiting friends and family as well. I'm sure that the number of children exposed to Covid is much more than reported, but still there is the one death. I have heard that in other countries where children have returned to school they are not having a lot of serious issues with Covid with the children. I have read that there is an increase in abuse of children during this Covid outbreak. It's also a problem for many families where one parent has to remain home or expensive day care is required. I recognize that there is another side of the issue, as there is for every issue. It's a matter of how we balance the issue. Then there is the matter of their education. I heard that on any given day, 30% of the children do not even log onto their computers for their schooling. I'm sure it is better for older children than younger. I do think online education for college is a good idea, but those are young adults that invest in the classes and are more motivated to participate. That's what I believe, but I've been told that's not necessarily the case. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/situation.html#ageg1 Then there is the matter of exposing 3.2-3.7 million U.S. teachers to a deadly virus.

kgdabom -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 5:41:50 PM)
I thought it was established that young fully healthy type people were in very little danger from COVID-19, but earlier today Lynn said they were quite vulnerable. I asked about that and haven't had anybody address it yet. How about very young. New Born babies and 5 and under. If they catch it can they expect full recovery or are they at pretty high risk like older people. Edit: I found this with a quick google search Although rare, children under age 1 (infants) are at higher risk of severe illness with COVID-19. This is likely due to their immature immune systems and smaller airways, which make them more likely to develop breathing issues with respiratory virus infections. Jul 21, 2020 and this Search Results Featured snippet from the web Is Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dangerous to Children? Experts are still learning about COVID-19. Far fewer cases have been reported in children. Usually, the virus seems to cause a milder infection in children than in adults or older people.

unome -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 5:49:18 PM)
I am 100% supportive of mask-wearing and I support this being a requirement both in schools and in indoor public spaces. BUT, I am very leery about distance learning in education. It was a massive failure in the spring and, while it could improve somewhat, it will not be a good choice if we care about our children's learning. There are so many problems with distance learning, it is hard to know where to start. First, let me acknowledge that many well-adjusted, regularly-abled children with excellent adult supervision and support can do just fine with distance learning. The problem is all the children that do not have one or more these aspects will have significant issues with learning from home. The CDC Director said recently that approximately 7.1 million children nationwide receive their mental health care and special educational services from school resources so it is hard to measure the level of damage these children not getting this support (and Zoom is a terrible substitute). And what do you do for Special Needs children with distance learning? They often essentially stopped progressing and many started regressing. 14% of our children will be significantly harmed with distance learning. How about the gap between the haves and have-nots? White-collar and well-off children will have an adult parent keeping them motivated and on-track, but what about single parents and the children whose parents are less academically focused? Many of these children may as well not have school. In some poorer areas, less than half of the kids ever even went online during distance learning last year! And if they do not have Internet access, is distance-learning even possible? I know a single parents who will be working regardless of whether their will be distance learning or not. Some of these kids are not even old enough to be left at home legally. And even if we decided to pay these parents to stay home with their kids, this could be an economic disaster. A 25 trillion dollar debt will eventually turn against us and cause massive problems,why push the envelope? And many businesses need these employees, what happens to them? Maybe they go hire replacements because the jobs are core to the business and these single parents lose their jobs permanently. For any parent that wants their children to do distance learning, they should be allowed to do this, so if there is a concern about a preexisting condition of the child or parent of the child, this can be an option that can be chosen. The only real problem is what if too many teachers want to opt-out, but the hard truth is that we can provide them the best PPEs and they may have to do what many around the country (at Target, Home Depot, etc.) have had to do for four months now and that is: take as much as precautions as possible and go to work. Some districts have already announced they will do distance learning, but is almost impossible to fully appreciate how many lives will be harmed by these choices. How many jobs lost, careers harmed, mental illnesses worsened, how many at-risk children will be further behind their peers. But we might save some lives, I hear over and over. I guess that is hard to argue. But, the same could be said of keeping kids home schooled every year, I suppose. According to the CDC, 64 children and adolescents under the age of 18 have died from COVID-19 as of last week. This is terrible, of course, but according to the CDC during a regular flu season, children deaths due to influenza range from 37 to 187 deaths. So, COVID is not discernibly worse than influenza for children. Yes, I know, the kids could get the disease and bring it home and give it to parents or grandparents. Thiss is why masks are required and we make ever reasonable effort to stop the spread to children even though the risk are relatively small.

unome -> RE: Covid 19 and those infected (7/31/2020 5:50:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: unome quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine So instead dying, how many will become "little incubators" of Covid and pass it on to their families? I also don't think its fair to compare us to other countries when almost all of them have handled the pandemic MUCH better than we have. Do you think that most other countries and their models of central government have something to do with it? That's something that I've been thinking about. We have 50 states who all kind of do things differently. I live in northwest Indiana, and I work in Illinois, and there are two different approaches between each state on dealing with the virus. The problem was not federalism, the problem is we had the wrong guy leading the central government. Had Trump just pushed hard for masks to be worn and not made mask-wearing into a political thing, we would be far better off. It is really hard to underestimate how much effect smart social distancing and mask-wearing have on the spread of the disease. They do not end it, of course, but when you can slash the Effective Reproduction Number as early as possible and get this number to stay below 1.0, or less than one transmission on average per infected person, than the virus spread is not much on an issue. Of course, Trump did finally say mask-wearing is "patriotic" so he finally gets it, just four months too late. Yup. We completely wasted months by only using half-assed measures and then trying to reopen too soon. And just like that we're back where we started (or possibly, worse). I do not even know if we reopened too soon. We definitely reopened too stupid.

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