RE: NFL Draft 2021

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TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:37:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14. The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'...... (Daniel House on Twitter) You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line. True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line. I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either. LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea. It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:38:03 AM)
Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT. Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there [:-]

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:39:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens I have no doubt that Cleveland is better suited to play tackle than guard and would perform better as a tackle. The question is how much better? He was epically bad at RG. If it wasn't for playing next to Dozier and replacing Elf and Samia, he would look that much worse. If he is that good of a prospect, we should have expected a little more out of him even if he wasn't playing his best position. You can show Brian O'Neill as a comp, but that doesn't mean he is going to be that player. O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. I am not saying in any way shape or form, that with an offseason in the weight room and moving to a more natural position that Cleveland couldn't make huge strides. I'm just saying it's quite a gamble to say he is our LT next year on a line that already has a lot of holes to address. Offensive line positions are generally not interchangeable. And most of the guys who can do it end up as "super subs" for a reason - because they're not good enough to start at any one position, but can play at least somewhat adequately at multiple ones. Its like making Pat Williams or Jerry Ball an edge rusher and wondering why they didn't get any sacks. I have no idea if Ezra is going to be good at OT or not, but I'm not going to hold him playing totally out of position (especially with a COVID shortened rookie offseason) against him. I'm not holding it against him either. I'm also not going to use it as an endorsement for being our starting LT next year.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:40:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14. The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'...... (Daniel House on Twitter) You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line. True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line. I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either. LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea. It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position. Forget two minutes of collegiate video. Looking at him for 5 seconds does NOT say right guard. And "day 1"? You mean the COVID-restricted "day 1"? Wow, you are going to double down on this?

David Levine -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:41:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14. The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'...... (Daniel House on Twitter) You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line. True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line. I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either. LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea. It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position. We had two solid OTs and garbage at OG. He was a guy who needed some development time, and he should have been the 3rd OT all year. They never should have tried him at OG, but they were so talent starved that its what they did. He was set up to fail and he did. I give him a mulligan on last year.

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:42:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT. Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there [:-] No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:44:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT. Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there [:-] No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year. No, it was a good analogy. You not understanding the dynamics is a better analogy.

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:47:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14. The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'...... (Daniel House on Twitter) You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line. True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line. I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either. LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea. It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position. We had two solid OTs and garbage at OG. He was a guy who needed some development time, and he should have been the 3rd OT all year. They never should have tried him at OG, but they were so talent starved that its what they did. He was set up to fail and he did. I give him a mulligan on last year. Oh bullshit. He has the physical tools to play guard. He worked out at G here from day 1. He practiced there through camp, preseason and the first 7 games of the season. He was not set up to fail.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:47:40 AM)
O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. More false equivalence. O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength. AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG.

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:49:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT. Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there [:-] No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year. No, it was a good analogy. You not understanding the dynamics is a better analogy. Bill, I am very confident that my understanding of the dynamics is better than yours here.

David F. -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:50:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens I have no doubt that Cleveland is better suited to play tackle than guard and would perform better as a tackle. The question is how much better? He was epically bad at RG. If it wasn't for playing next to Dozier and replacing Elf and Samia, he would look that much worse. If he is that good of a prospect, we should have expected a little more out of him even if he wasn't playing his best position. You can show Brian O'Neill as a comp, but that doesn't mean he is going to be that player. O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. I am not saying in any way shape or form, that with an offseason in the weight room and moving to a more natural position that Cleveland couldn't make huge strides. I'm just saying it's quite a gamble to say he is our LT next year on a line that already has a lot of holes to address. Not exactly. Hill entered the 2018 season as the Vikings starting right tackle. He was moved over to left tackle from Weeks 6-8 in place of an injured Riley Reiff. During that time, rookie Brian O'Neill started at right tackle in his place. After Reiff returned from injury, Hill was demoted to a backup role the rest of the season as O'Neill had played well in his place. Under Zimmer there's only one way a starter loses his job.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:50:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: joejitsu quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14. The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'...... (Daniel House on Twitter) You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line. True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line. I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either. LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea. It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position. We had two solid OTs and garbage at OG. He was a guy who needed some development time, and he should have been the 3rd OT all year. They never should have tried him at OG, but they were so talent starved that its what they did. He was set up to fail and he did. I give him a mulligan on last year. Oh bullshit. He has the physical tools to play guard. He worked out at G here from day 1. He practiced there through camp, preseason and the first 7 games of the season. He was not set up to fail. Preseason?!?! [&o]

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:51:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. More false equivalence. O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength. AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG. No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:51:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT. Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there [:-] No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year. No, it was a good analogy. You not understanding the dynamics is a better analogy. Bill, I am very confident that my understanding of the dynamics is better than yours here. Wrong again. You are out in left field, which is happening a lot lately. Brush up on the basics!

David Levine -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:53:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT. Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there [:-] No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year. I call bullshit here. He's built like a TE that bulked up to play LT. Do I need to post even more scouting reports debunking this? Ezra is a prototypical LT. I can, there are tons of them.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:54:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. More false equivalence. O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength. AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG. No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season. Point being O'Neill just needed to gain strength and he was going to play tackle. There were no serious discussions about O'Neill playing G outside of him getting some experience there. Stop making up shit.

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:55:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Preseason?!?! [&o] Roll your eyes all you want Bill. That was still time he working out exclusively at the position. You can push the narrative that they threw him in there with no preparation all you want. That isn't what happened. That's why they didn't throw him out there in week 1. And I would point out that there a lot of posters in here who thought they should have him as a starting guard week 1.

David Levine -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:55:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens Oh bullshit. He has the physical tools to play guard. He worked out at G here from day 1. He practiced there through camp, preseason and the first 7 games of the season. He was not set up to fail. That is the very definition of setting up to fail. He never should've taken a single snap at OG.

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:57:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. More false equivalence. O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength. AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG. No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season. Point being O'Neill just needed to gain strength and he was going to play tackle. There were no serious discussions about O'Neill playing G outside of him getting some experience there. Stop making up shit. Making shit up? How Trumpian of you. Falsely accuse me of the thing you are doing yourself.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 11:59:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Preseason?!?! [&o] Roll your eyes all you want Bill. That was still time he working out exclusively at the position. You can push the narrative that they threw him in there with no preparation all you want. That isn't what happened. That's why they didn't throw him out there in week 1. And I would point out that there a lot of posters in here who thought they should have him as a starting guard week 1. OMG. Yeah, with all the COVID restrictions and reductions in practice you are still going with the "he was prepared" thing? All you are doing is moving the goalposts because the real issue is you not understanding Cleveland is a TACKLE, not a guard.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 12:01:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. More false equivalence. O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength. AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG. No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season. Point being O'Neill just needed to gain strength and he was going to play tackle. There were no serious discussions about O'Neill playing G outside of him getting some experience there. Stop making up shit. Making shit up? How Trumpian of you. Falsely accuse me of the thing you are doing yourself. I don't know how you try to save face on your lack of understanding the issue since you've quadrupled down. Maybe go on an extended lunch or vacation.

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 12:02:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens Oh bullshit. He has the physical tools to play guard. He worked out at G here from day 1. He practiced there through camp, preseason and the first 7 games of the season. He was not set up to fail. That is the very definition of setting up to fail. He never should've taken a single snap at OG. If they had put him out there day 1 I would agree with you. Taking someone who had the physical attributes to play a position, working him out and coaching him exclusively at that position for months before being put into a game situation is not remotely close to the definition of being set up to fail.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 12:05:14 PM)
Had the physical attributes? Like I said, a lack of understanding.

TJSweens -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 12:08:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: TJSweens quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back. More false equivalence. O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength. AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG. No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season. Point being O'Neill just needed to gain strength and he was going to play tackle. There were no serious discussions about O'Neill playing G outside of him getting some experience there. Stop making up shit. Making shit up? How Trumpian of you. Falsely accuse me of the thing you are doing yourself. I don't know how you try to save face on your lack of understanding the issue since you've quadrupled down. Maybe go on an extended lunch or vacation. There is no need to save face here Bill. You haven't made a cogent point in this whole discussion. If you want to believe that last year was a precursor to Cleveland having a 10 year run as an All Pro LT, knock yourself out.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: NFL Draft 2021 (3/11/2021 12:08:32 PM)
Bottomline is Cleveland has the attributes to play tackle. He played tackle in college. Scouts saw him as a tackle. He was drafted to play tackle. Now that Reiff is gone, he will figure into the mix at tackle. Sweeney can harp that Cleveland has the physical attributes (and apparently experience) to play guard, but he is misinformed.

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