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kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:02:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. 2020 Chris Herndon (his disappointment year) 31 catches for 287 yards and 3 TDs 2020 Kyle Rudolph 28 catches for 334 yards and 1 TD Herndon will fill in just fine. Lots of drops and lots of fumbles is what I read made the year disappointing. From what I've been reading ... he's been a disappointment but like Smith, hasn't been used the right way and on a team without our offensive weapons. We'll just have to wait to see how he adapts (or doesn't). Herndon had 4 fumbles on 71 receptions 5.6%.. Meh.. he will be ok.. Overpaid? At this point.. Spielman is trying to save his job, he doesn’t care about future low round draft picks.. I think we used to crucify AP for one fumble out of a hundred possessions. 4 in 71 is an astoundingly high number. I can think of two: the fumble for an extra yard that cost the Vikes home field advantage fighting for an extra yard after he all ready had the first down in Chicago. The other one wasn't credited to him but it WAS him that fumbled in the NFCCG that was costly for sure. What were Herndon's two biggest fumbles? Irrelevant. 4 fumbles out of 71 possessions is an astoundingly high number and if it continues will certainly be costly. Small sample and I hope it doesn't continue. What percentage of salary to total cap figure did each of them eat up? Did Herndon get benched in the biggest game of his life? Irrelevant. The only consideration now is what we expect Herndon to do this season and in the future. If he continues to fumble on over 5% of his possessions he will be out of a job very soon. Hopefully it doesn't continue. I also heard his drop rate was very high.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:04:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. 2020 Chris Herndon (his disappointment year) 31 catches for 287 yards and 3 TDs 2020 Kyle Rudolph 28 catches for 334 yards and 1 TD Herndon will fill in just fine. Lots of drops and lots of fumbles is what I read made the year disappointing. From what I've been reading ... he's been a disappointment but like Smith, hasn't been used the right way and on a team without our offensive weapons. We'll just have to wait to see how he adapts (or doesn't). Herndon had 4 fumbles on 71 receptions 5.6%.. Meh.. he will be ok.. Overpaid? At this point.. Spielman is trying to save his job, he doesn’t care about future low round draft picks.. I think we used to crucify AP for one fumble out of a hundred possessions. 4 in 71 is an astoundingly high number. I can think of two: the fumble for an extra yard that cost the Vikes home field advantage fighting for an extra yard after he all ready had the first down in Chicago. The other one wasn't credited to him but it WAS him that fumbled in the NFCCG that was costly for sure. What were Herndon's two biggest fumbles? Irrelevant. 4 fumbles out of 71 possessions is an astoundingly high number and if it continues will certainly be costly. Small sample and I hope it doesn't continue. Well by your own screwed-up AP apologist mathematics ... Herndon only lost 2 of his four fumbles so its not that big a deal. Two lost fumbles out of 71 possessions is extremely high. It is a big deal.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:11:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. 2020 Chris Herndon (his disappointment year) 31 catches for 287 yards and 3 TDs 2020 Kyle Rudolph 28 catches for 334 yards and 1 TD Herndon will fill in just fine. Lots of drops and lots of fumbles is what I read made the year disappointing. From what I've been reading ... he's been a disappointment but like Smith, hasn't been used the right way and on a team without our offensive weapons. We'll just have to wait to see how he adapts (or doesn't). Herndon had 4 fumbles on 71 receptions 5.6%.. Meh.. he will be ok.. Overpaid? At this point.. Spielman is trying to save his job, he doesn’t care about future low round draft picks.. I think we used to crucify AP for one fumble out of a hundred possessions. 4 in 71 is an astoundingly high number. I can think of two: the fumble for an extra yard that cost the Vikes home field advantage fighting for an extra yard after he all ready had the first down in Chicago. The other one wasn't credited to him but it WAS him that fumbled in the NFCCG that was costly for sure. What were Herndon's two biggest fumbles? Irrelevant. 4 fumbles out of 71 possessions is an astoundingly high number and if it continues will certainly be costly. Small sample and I hope it doesn't continue. Well by your own screwed-up AP apologist mathematics ... Herndon only lost 2 of his four fumbles so its not that big a deal. Two lost fumbles out of 71 possessions is extremely high. It is a big deal. Thank god we traded for a guy with no significant fumbling problems.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:19:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: David F. 2020 Chris Herndon (his disappointment year) 31 catches for 287 yards and 3 TDs 2020 Kyle Rudolph 28 catches for 334 yards and 1 TD Herndon will fill in just fine. Lots of drops and lots of fumbles is what I read made the year disappointing. From what I've been reading ... he's been a disappointment but like Smith, hasn't been used the right way and on a team without our offensive weapons. We'll just have to wait to see how he adapts (or doesn't). Herndon had 4 fumbles on 71 receptions 5.6%.. Meh.. he will be ok.. Overpaid? At this point.. Spielman is trying to save his job, he doesn’t care about future low round draft picks.. I think we used to crucify AP for one fumble out of a hundred possessions. 4 in 71 is an astoundingly high number. I can think of two: the fumble for an extra yard that cost the Vikes home field advantage fighting for an extra yard after he all ready had the first down in Chicago. The other one wasn't credited to him but it WAS him that fumbled in the NFCCG that was costly for sure. What were Herndon's two biggest fumbles? Irrelevant. 4 fumbles out of 71 possessions is an astoundingly high number and if it continues will certainly be costly. Small sample and I hope it doesn't continue. Well by your own screwed-up AP apologist mathematics ... Herndon only lost 2 of his four fumbles so its not that big a deal. Two lost fumbles out of 71 possessions is extremely high. It is a big deal. Thank god we traded for a guy with no significant fumbling problems. Whatever Tom. His last season was very bad. besides the fumbles and lost fumbles he also had 4 dropped passes. Compare that to Kyle Rudolph who had one drop over the last 3 seasons. His first season he only had 1 drop. If he can revert to his first season form we got a bargain. If he plays like last season he wasn't worth getting at any price.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:26:13 PM)
Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again?

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:29:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:31:06 PM)
My bad on adding a spark to the kindling - I just have a hard time letting that fumble go in Chicago

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:34:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J My bad on adding a spark to the kindling - I just have a hard time letting that fumble go in Chicago Fumbles aren't good. They can cost a team wins and losses. That's why you want very few of them. All players fumble sooner or later. Hopefully the good outweighs the bad and to me Peterson's good far outweighed his bad. Hopefully it will be the same with Herndon.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:35:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags. If there weren't. He wouldn't have been available in trade.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:39:18 PM)
Mike Zimmer on Chris Herndon. Said he can block and has good hands. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brcLLC8wAWg

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:40:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags. If there weren't. He wouldn't have been available in trade. True. He had been beaten out for the Jets #1 spot and it was uncertain if he was their #2. It will be interesting to see him Herndon or Conklin gets most of the time in 1TE sets. It's uncertain if Conklin will be available week 1.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:42:07 PM)
There is no reliable statistical evidence of Rudolph’s drop rate or drops at all.. The search for stats comes up with zero drops.. Which we all know, from years of watching, is not even close to true.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:43:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nate Wow a 4th and 6th for Herndon? We won't pony up a 6 for Minshew but a 4 and 6 for a pedestrian TE? I'm glad we got a TE but that's an overpay IMO, SMH. No we get Herndon and a 6th

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:45:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young There is no reliable statistical evidence of Rudolph’s drop rate or drops at all.. The search for stats comes up with zero drops.. Which we all know, from years of watching, is not even close to true. i trust Pro Football reference the most. They had Rudolph with one drop in the last three years. I believe that to be accurate. Herndon with four in 2020. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RudoKy00.htm

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:48:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags. Truth is not it. On any subject. You'll confer demi-god status on certain players and refute science to do so ... If you don't like a player ... there's no way to get an even-minded objective response out of you. Its a firehose of negativism. Defending APs fumble issue while attacking Herndon's fumble issue is just the latest unequivocal example.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 12:58:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Nate Wow a 4th and 6th for Herndon? We won't pony up a 6 for Minshew but a 4 and 6 for a pedestrian TE? I'm glad we got a TE but that's an overpay IMO, SMH. No we get Herndon and a 6th Yes ... plus the Jets paid a 1.4m roster bonus or some kind of guarantee so we could close the deal cheaply (outside of the 4th) and just pay Herndon's salary. [maybe the Jets had anyways but I read somewhere it was part of the trade] Regardless, I do agree with Nate ... I would rather have Minshew for a 6th and some TE waiver pick-up / low rent vet – than the 4th for Herndon. Although I recognize I'm much more harsh on Mond than a lot of posters in here.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:14:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags. Truth is not it. On any subject. You'll confer demi-god status on certain players and refute science to do so ... If you don't like a player ... there's no way to get an even-minded objective response out of you. Its a firehose of negativism. Defending APs fumble issue while attacking Herndon's fumble issue is just the latest unequivocal example. I have no particular problem with Herndon. I'm just pointing out the truth about him. Jets fans were happy to see him go. Hopefully he can revert back to his rookie form. In the past I have I very scientifically pointed out Peterson's fumbling wasn't nearly as bad as many on this board made it out to be. He's long gone and I don't care about him any more. Tell me the Vikings players that I don't like now or haven't liked over the last ten years that I didn't give an even minded objective response about. I'm prepared to wait until Hell freezes over for you to come up with who those players are.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:25:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Nate Wow a 4th and 6th for Herndon? We won't pony up a 6 for Minshew but a 4 and 6 for a pedestrian TE? I'm glad we got a TE but that's an overpay IMO, SMH. No we get Herndon and a 6th Yes ... plus the Jets paid a 1.4m roster bonus or some kind of guarantee so we could close the deal cheaply (outside of the 4th) and just pay Herndon's salary. [maybe the Jets had anyways but I read somewhere it was part of the trade] Regardless, I do agree with Nate ... I would rather have Minshew for a 6th and some TE waiver pick-up / low rent vet – than the 4th for Herndon. Although I recognize I'm much more harsh on Mond than a lot of posters in here. Me too. But Spielman and Zimmer have shown they're never willing to being in competition for Cousins - or even a player that the fans would call for if Kirk struggles.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:26:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: Nate Wow a 4th and 6th for Herndon? We won't pony up a 6 for Minshew but a 4 and 6 for a pedestrian TE? I'm glad we got a TE but that's an overpay IMO, SMH. No we get Herndon and a 6th Yes ... plus the Jets paid a 1.4m roster bonus or some kind of guarantee so we could close the deal cheaply (outside of the 4th) and just pay Herndon's salary. [maybe the Jets had anyways but I read somewhere it was part of the trade] Regardless, I do agree with Nate ... I would rather have Minshew for a 6th and some TE waiver pick-up / low rent vet – than the 4th for Herndon. Although I recognize I'm much more harsh on Mond than a lot of posters in here. Me too. But Spielman and Zimmer have shown they're never willing to being in competition for Cousins - or even a player that the fans would call for if Kirk struggles. If Kirk struggles the fans will call for Mond. I don't expect Kirk to struggle much. Sure maybe one or two bad games.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:28:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags. Truth is not it. On any subject. You'll confer demi-god status on certain players and refute science to do so ... If you don't like a player ... there's no way to get an even-minded objective response out of you. Its a firehose of negativism. Defending APs fumble issue while attacking Herndon's fumble issue is just the latest unequivocal example. I have no particular problem with Herndon. I'm just pointing out the truth about him. Jets fans were happy to see him go. Hopefully he can revert back to his rookie form. In the past I have I very scientifically pointed out Peterson's fumbling wasn't nearly as bad as many on this board made it out to be. He's long gone and I don't care about him any more. Tell me the Vikings players that I don't like now or haven't liked over the last ten years that I didn't give an even minded objective response about. I'm prepared to wait until Hell freezes over for you to come up with who those players are. Um, I'll have to stretch way back for the incongruous 'me no-like' example ... Chris Herndon Even farther for the incongruous 'me yes-like' example ... Dillon Mitchell Insufferable in both directions.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:37:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags. Truth is not it. On any subject. You'll confer demi-god status on certain players and refute science to do so ... If you don't like a player ... there's no way to get an even-minded objective response out of you. Its a firehose of negativism. Defending APs fumble issue while attacking Herndon's fumble issue is just the latest unequivocal example. I have no particular problem with Herndon. I'm just pointing out the truth about him. Jets fans were happy to see him go. Hopefully he can revert back to his rookie form. In the past I have I very scientifically pointed out Peterson's fumbling wasn't nearly as bad as many on this board made it out to be. He's long gone and I don't care about him any more. Tell me the Vikings players that I don't like now or haven't liked over the last ten years that I didn't give an even minded objective response about. I'm prepared to wait until Hell freezes over for you to come up with who those players are. Um, I'll have to stretch way back for the incongruous 'me no-like' example ... Chris Herndon Even farther for the incongruous 'me yes-like' example ... Dillon Mitchell Insufferable in both directions. BS about Herndon. I just pointed out the negatives regarding him. I like him and hope for the very best. You won't be able to come up with one Vikings player out of the last 10 years that I didn't like and was unfair to. Not a chance. You got me on Dillon Mitchell. Since he never did anything my appreciation of his talent has been shown to be misguided. How about discussing in good faith and not creating a straw man of me.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:38:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young There is no reliable statistical evidence of Rudolph’s drop rate or drops at all.. The search for stats comes up with zero drops.. Which we all know, from years of watching, is not even close to true. i trust Pro Football reference the most. They had Rudolph with one drop in the last three years. I believe that to be accurate. Herndon with four in 2020. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RudoKy00.htm Rudolph is not a good example. He moves in extra slow Matrix bullet-time which is an unfair advantage. Kittle had 5 drops last year for a 7.9% drop rate. Yes, Herndon's 8.9% drop rate last year was a concern but his 1.8% drop rate his other year offsets that a bit. We will see. More than anything ... I'm just glad we didn't resign a pure blocker like / or David Morgan II.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:41:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Man, go out of your way to find the bad.. Why do you follow the Vikings, again? Yeah. I'm a pessimist. LMAO. [&:][&:][&:][&:][&:][&o] I'm just pointing out the truth about Herndon. There are things to like about him, but there are red flags. Truth is not it. On any subject. You'll confer demi-god status on certain players and refute science to do so ... If you don't like a player ... there's no way to get an even-minded objective response out of you. Its a firehose of negativism. Defending APs fumble issue while attacking Herndon's fumble issue is just the latest unequivocal example. I have no particular problem with Herndon. I'm just pointing out the truth about him. Jets fans were happy to see him go. Hopefully he can revert back to his rookie form. In the past I have I very scientifically pointed out Peterson's fumbling wasn't nearly as bad as many on this board made it out to be. He's long gone and I don't care about him any more. Tell me the Vikings players that I don't like now or haven't liked over the last ten years that I didn't give an even minded objective response about. I'm prepared to wait until Hell freezes over for you to come up with who those players are. Um, I'll have to stretch way back for the incongruous 'me no-like' example ... Chris Herndon Even farther for the incongruous 'me yes-like' example ... Dillon Mitchell Insufferable in both directions. BS about Herndon. I just pointed out the negatives regarding him. I like him and hope for the very best. You won't be able to come up with one Vikings player out of the last 10 years that I didn't like and was unfair to. Not a chance. You got me on Dillon Mitchell. Since he never did anything my appreciation of his talent has been shown to be misguided. alright, alright I'm doing what I accuse you of doing which is bend the truth to pad an argument. I'll retreat. For now lol.

kgdabom -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:43:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young There is no reliable statistical evidence of Rudolph’s drop rate or drops at all.. The search for stats comes up with zero drops.. Which we all know, from years of watching, is not even close to true. i trust Pro Football reference the most. They had Rudolph with one drop in the last three years. I believe that to be accurate. Herndon with four in 2020. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RudoKy00.htm Rudolph is not a good example. He moves in extra slow Matrix bullet-time which is an unfair advantage. Kittle had 5 drops last year for a 7.9% drop rate. Yes, Herndon's 8.9% drop rate last year was a concern but his 1.8% drop rate his other year offsets that a bit. We will see. More than anything ... I'm just glad we didn't resign a pure blocker like / or David Morgan II. Rudolph has the best hands in the NFL so it was somewhat unfair of me to compare Herndon to him. However, he was a Viking until this season so somewhat fair. I have very FAIRLY pointed out that Herndon was much better his rookie season and I hope that is what we get from him.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/1/2021 1:43:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kgdabom quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young There is no reliable statistical evidence of Rudolph’s drop rate or drops at all.. The search for stats comes up with zero drops.. Which we all know, from years of watching, is not even close to true. i trust Pro Football reference the most. They had Rudolph with one drop in the last three years. I believe that to be accurate. Herndon with four in 2020. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RudoKy00.htm Y’all know it’s more than” just one drop,”, right? Selective memory.. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/vikings-te-kyle-rudolph-dropped-the-easiest-touchdown-of-his-life/

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