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Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:36:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Things we needed fixed during the off-season: 1) O-Line 2) Defense 3) Kicking Game It's starting to look as if we went 0-3 from January to September. Oline and Defense played bad? I saw improvement in both yesterday.. Def returned an INT for a TD, stopped another drive with an INT, 3 sacks on Murray...I don't agree. Oline both run blocked and pass blocked well. A few mistakes on defense but even the broken coverage was due to Weatherly not holding contain. Arizona is an explosive team....Kirk, Moore, and DHOP plus AJ Green....not a weak sister offense.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:36:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Brad knows that a 37 yarder chip shot can go wherever the ball striker hits it + spin and wind.. thank you Captain obvious… I've shanked plenty of 37-yard chip shots. But I don't practice them four hours a day.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:37:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero. A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that. The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills. If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick. I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs. I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs. We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 27 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal. Did you watch the game? Sorry, misspoke on the numbers. 20-yard line. Okay. Sorry for the snark. But, in the world of analytics, a 37 yard FG versus going for a TD in that situation. Probably 90% versus 30%. Just keep pushing forward. The other team had given up 419 yards at that point. Opening game TB/Dallas. Brady settled for GW FG. He threw 2 or 3 balls into the stands to kill time for the game winner. Make the dang kick.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:39:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Things we needed fixed during the off-season: 1) O-Line 2) Defense 3) Kicking Game It's starting to look as if we went 0-3 from January to September. Oline and Defense played bad? I saw improvement in both yesterday.. Def returned an INT for a TD, stopped another drive with an INT, 3 sacks on Murray...I don't agree. Oline both run blocked and pass blocked well. A few mistakes on defense but even the broken coverage was due to Weatherly not holding contain. Arizona is an explosive team....Kirk, Moore, and DHOP plus AJ Green....not a weak sister offense. You can continue to look for all the positives if you want. It's a bad football team. When you give up 479 yards of offense, you aren't competitive.

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:41:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares. We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG. Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss. Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0. Did you see anything in the secondary other than an Int on a bad ball that made you think that years of resources spent on the secondary have amounted to....anything? Seriously, the whole philosophy of this regime is have an elite D and superior running game with a game manager QB, and they can't field a decent secondary or a decent OL to protect the ultimate game manager QB. As encouraging as the OL play was yesterday, it was just hope they would be adequate, and you can make a case that they weren't too good in the second half. And do you actually purport to defend Zimmer's clock management and ultra-conservative philosophy? What about the squib kick that gave them enough extra yardage to get into FG range? All just fine? It's all part of a pattern that repeats itself year after year.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:42:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall Vikings are up against it now, lose to Seattle and the odds of making the playoffs drop to almost zero. A terrible team with a young QB can draw interest because "the future" is on the field. Vikings will not even have that. The ceiling is limited because of Zimmer's philosophy off football and his clock management skills. If you give up over 30 points a game, you aren't competitive on defense. That is supposed to be his bailiwick. I give them a bit of a mulligan for yesterday. Arizona style is going to rack up big yardage and points. Vikings did get a TD on defense to offset some of that. Arizona style also suggests you should be able to score more points. Zimmer settled for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs. I'd go further and say that Zimmer PLAYED for FGs when the tempo demanded TDs. We had the ball on the Arizona side of the field with 1:31 left on the clock. We had it at the 27 with 44 seconds left. It's inexcusable clock management given the history of the franchise and missed kicks over the past six seasons. We basically wasted a minimum of 30 seconds just playing for a field goal. Did you watch the game? Sorry, misspoke on the numbers. 20-yard line. Okay. Sorry for the snark. But, in the world of analytics, a 37 yard FG versus going for a TD in that situation. Probably 90% versus 30%. Just keep pushing forward. The other team had given up 419 yards at that point. Opening game TB/Dallas. Brady settled for GW FG. He threw 2 or 3 balls into the stands to kill time for the game winner. Make the dang kick. The guy had already missed an extra point. Apparently a 37-yarder isn't easy at that point. He proved it....TWICE!

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:48:32 AM)
Knowing what we now know about our kicker, do you burn the clock against next week in order to settle for a field goal at the end of the game?

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:48:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares. We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG. Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss. Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0. Did you see anything in the secondary other than an Int on a bad ball that made you think that years of resources spent on the secondary have amounted to....anything? Seriously, the whole philosophy of this regime is have an elite D and superior running game with a game manager QB, and they can't field a decent secondary or a decent OL to protect the ultimate game manager QB. As encouraging as the OL play was yesterday, it was just hope they would be adequate, and you can make a case that they weren't too good in the second half. And do you actually purport to defend Zimmer's clock management and ultra-conservative philosophy? What about the squib kick that gave them enough extra yardage to get into FG range? All just fine? It's all part of a pattern that repeats itself year after year. Defense needs to step it up. Barr coming back and playing at a high level. Griffen coming up big in situational role. Hunter can't be only DE producing. Dantzler needs to regain confidence he had last year. Safeties need to cut down on mental errors Richardson and Tomlinson need to show something. Where are they? Can these things happen? Hope so.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:50:53 AM)
So after seeing two games … Mark is right, you have to start KC until this thing is buried and final playoff rites given. Even long after if he’s playing well. No coach wants to get fired mid-season and Zimmer has an unrealistic view of his own coaching ability anyway … so we’d have to be 0-9 (as bad as our div looks), before the situation dawns on Zimmer and KC sits. Spielman is worse and will not make any hard franchise-necessary decisions until the last game or two (of the season) when there is no other option for (in his mind) saving his job). The point is moot. IMO this team will end up with 8-9 wins with a little less self-destruction. That’s real disappointing (and would annoy the hell out of the ‘lose more, pick highers’) - but the offense is rolling … and to my eye Breeland is the only really weak link in the secondary … defense really. If the non-Hunter DL starts to improve more up to its talent, the back 7 will look better. FAs can take just as much time to settle in as drat picks.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:51:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares. We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG. Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss. Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0. I could argue both losses are on Zimmer. Don't play anybody in preseason and you have a bushel basket of mental errors the first game. Second game he played for FG at the end of the first half and end of the game. Zimmer created the "Prevent Offense". it is what it is. 0 - 2 against lower level teams with two upper level teams going forward.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:52:54 AM)
Chris Tomasson @christomasson · 1h Since Mike Zimmer took over as #Vikings coach in 2014, the team is 8-15-1 in the regular season in games decided by three points or less.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:56:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Knowing what we now know about our kicker, do you burn the clock against next week in order to settle for a field goal at the end of the game? Probably plenty more close games in our future. He needs to have some confidence that he can make the clutch kick.

Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 11:58:33 AM)
If I were the Vikings I'd offer Cousins to Atlanta, Houston or Indianapolis for anything they can give. Those may be the only three franchises with a worse quarterback situation. You can also throw Miami into that mix.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:01:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares. We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG. Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss. Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0. Did you see anything in the secondary other than an Int on a bad ball that made you think that years of resources spent on the secondary have amounted to....anything? Seriously, the whole philosophy of this regime is have an elite D and superior running game with a game manager QB, and they can't field a decent secondary or a decent OL to protect the ultimate game manager QB. As encouraging as the OL play was yesterday, it was just hope they would be adequate, and you can make a case that they weren't too good in the second half. And do you actually purport to defend Zimmer's clock management and ultra-conservative philosophy? What about the squib kick that gave them enough extra yardage to get into FG range? All just fine? It's all part of a pattern that repeats itself year after year. Defense needs to step it up. Barr coming back and playing at a high level. Griffen coming up big in situational role. Hunter can't be only DE producing. Dantzler needs to regain confidence he had last year. Safeties need to cut down on mental errors Richardson and Tomlinson need to show something. Where are they? Can these things happen? Hope so. It can and should happen … how much is the question. I myself would not take Vigil off the field. I know its not realistic, Zim and RS are too invested in Barr but, cmon … if only for the intensty … Boyd and Dantzler both need to spell or rotate with Breeland … it should be a 3 way competition at this point with no polite consideration given to Breeland’s writhing-on-the-ground agonies.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:05:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ronhextall Read this.. Zimmer has the second worst record against winning teams as a head coach in NFL history for coaches with 4+ years in. Trailing only Jay Gruden. Vikings tickets on StubHub are the cheapest I have seen for the new stadium. The natives are getting restless for sure. Second worst record against winning teams in NFL history... We want to continue with this guy? In regards to the tickets, yes it's true and it's gross. Prior to the season opener I was selling my unused games for 1.5-2.5x face value. Thankfully I moved a bunch of them because I've been lowering my remaining ones continuously and still not moving many of them.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:09:15 PM)
Chris Tomasson @christomasson · 35m Pro Football Focus ranks #Vikings Bashaud Breeland 99th and last among all NFL cornerbacks through two games, excluding tonight's Monday affair. Put Dantzler back in!

TJSweens -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:12:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. Chris Tomasson @christomasson · 35m Pro Football Focus ranks #Vikings Bashaud Breeland 99th and last among all NFL cornerbacks through two games, excluding tonight's Monday affair. Put Dantzler back in! Breeland is getting targeted and abused. The experiment is a failure.

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:35:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares. We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG. Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss. Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0. Did you see anything in the secondary other than an Int on a bad ball that made you think that years of resources spent on the secondary have amounted to....anything? Seriously, the whole philosophy of this regime is have an elite D and superior running game with a game manager QB, and they can't field a decent secondary or a decent OL to protect the ultimate game manager QB. As encouraging as the OL play was yesterday, it was just hope they would be adequate, and you can make a case that they weren't too good in the second half. And do you actually purport to defend Zimmer's clock management and ultra-conservative philosophy? What about the squib kick that gave them enough extra yardage to get into FG range? All just fine? It's all part of a pattern that repeats itself year after year. Defense needs to step it up. Barr coming back and playing at a high level. Griffen coming up big in situational role. Hunter can't be only DE producing. Dantzler needs to regain confidence he had last year. Safeties need to cut down on mental errors Richardson and Tomlinson need to show something. Where are they? Can these things happen? Hope so. I have hope for the bolded, but the secondary is a mess. Dantzler was decent last year, good for a rookie, but it was never a gimme he would be THE answer. I think Barr will help against the run, as always, but I don't think his return moves the needle on pass coverage.

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:38:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes So after seeing two games … Mark is right, you have to start KC until this thing is buried and final playoff rites given. Even long after if he’s playing well. No coach wants to get fired mid-season and Zimmer has an unrealistic view of his own coaching ability anyway … so we’d have to be 0-9 (as bad as our div looks), before the situation dawns on Zimmer and KC sits. Spielman is worse and will not make any hard franchise-necessary decisions until the last game or two (of the season) when there is no other option for (in his mind) saving his job). The point is moot. IMO this team will end up with 8-9 wins with a little less self-destruction. That’s real disappointing (and would annoy the hell out of the ‘lose more, pick highers’) - but the offense is rolling … and to my eye Breeland is the only really weak link in the secondary … defense really. If the non-Hunter DL starts to improve more up to its talent, the back 7 will look better. FAs can take just as much time to settle in as drat picks. I don't think you just throw Mond out there unless he's showing he's capable of leveraging the opportunity. Breeland wasn't at fault on the long TD, and there are holes throughout the secondary. It may be that they can get up to speed, but the tackling and tightness has to come.

bohumm -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:41:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: bohumm quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares. We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG. Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss. Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0. Did you see anything in the secondary other than an Int on a bad ball that made you think that years of resources spent on the secondary have amounted to....anything? Seriously, the whole philosophy of this regime is have an elite D and superior running game with a game manager QB, and they can't field a decent secondary or a decent OL to protect the ultimate game manager QB. As encouraging as the OL play was yesterday, it was just hope they would be adequate, and you can make a case that they weren't too good in the second half. And do you actually purport to defend Zimmer's clock management and ultra-conservative philosophy? What about the squib kick that gave them enough extra yardage to get into FG range? All just fine? It's all part of a pattern that repeats itself year after year. Defense needs to step it up. Barr coming back and playing at a high level. Griffen coming up big in situational role. Hunter can't be only DE producing. Dantzler needs to regain confidence he had last year. Safeties need to cut down on mental errors Richardson and Tomlinson need to show something. Where are they? Can these things happen? Hope so. It can and should happen … how much is the question. I myself would not take Vigil off the field. I know its not realistic, Zim and RS are too invested in Barr but, cmon … if only for the intensty … Boyd and Dantzler both need to spell or rotate with Breeland … it should be a 3 way competition at this point with no polite consideration given to Breeland’s writhing-on-the-ground agonies. I've been thinking the same re: Vigil and Barr. Shame to pay all that money for a one- or two-down LB, but he's never been much in coverage.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:45:12 PM)
Arif Hasan, football season enjoyer 🏈 @ArifHasanNFL · 22m Per @edjsports , Zimmer had 3 of the worst 5 decisions this weekend. Kingsbury had another. Culley's decision to decline a defensive third down penalty in order to punt wasn't on here but was "the most baffling" Greg Joseph's miss was deemed the most impactful play of the weekend

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H If I were the Vikings I'd offer Cousins to Atlanta, Houston or Indianapolis for anything they can give. Those may be the only three franchises with a worse quarterback situation. You can also throw Miami into that mix. Daft. Predictable. The 2 min campaign tactic having been blown out of the water, you are treading elsewhere. Thankfully, you are not the Vikings. Nor a fan of the team if you want to bail on a season after two very close games … No, we are not going to trade KC … bench KC … or in your case, behead KC … right now or in the immediate future. I am guessing that most, who ike me are not big fans of KC, recognize he gives us our only chance to salvage this season. If its possible.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 12:51:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: GopherFan34 One of the reason"s Zim is still around is, he does just enough to keep the fans interested. Same with Spielman. He drafts enough good players to make them competitive but not enough to put them over the top. Just do it the twins way and completely tank a season so no cares. We should have won two road games to start the season. Oline showed improvement and the defense played well except for 3 plays and three ST mistakes on the PR, missed XP, and missed FG. Not sure that we can blame Spielman and Zimmer or even Kirk for this loss. Basically a missed call fumble and a missed FG from 2-0. If you're going to play that game, you need to do it in wins as well. I'm sure you can find a handful of plays that will turn many of our wins into losses if you apply the same amount of energy looking for them...

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 1:01:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer MN 64 plays Arz 62 plays There was talk during the Bears/Cincy game that the Cincy Defense had to play 82 plays the week before and it might take them a half just to get their bearings.... If you want an explosive offense and explosive shutdown defense; there better be plenty of run plays. It isn't Zimmer ball; you need it to keep the Defense fresh. You don't really need run plays, pass plays take up just as much "real" time for the defense to recover. You need extended drives.

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (9/20/2021 1:05:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Brad H Things we needed fixed during the off-season: 1) O-Line 2) Defense 3) Kicking Game It's starting to look as if we went 0-3 from January to September. Oline and Defense played bad? I saw improvement in both yesterday.. Def returned an INT for a TD, stopped another drive with an INT, 3 sacks on Murray...I don't agree. Oline both run blocked and pass blocked well. A few mistakes on defense but even the broken coverage was due to Weatherly not holding contain. Arizona is an explosive team....Kirk, Moore, and DHOP plus AJ Green....not a weak sister offense. Oline was opening gaping holes for Cook to run through. The guy that got 5 sacks last week had exactly 0 this week. Cousins had time to throw most of the day. I would say they played surprisingly well. Defense needed some tackling lessons. Hunter is a stud again. Tracking down Murray is no easy task and he put him on the ground three times. Breeland is a waste of money. Vigil looks like a brilliant signing. Barr can go now. Peterson hardly has to cover cause Breeland is so bad. Blown coverages killed us a few times yesterday. Kicker missed a xpt and a FG to win. The Vikings need to stop taking the Minnesota Twins approach to FA pitchers when it comes to kickers. Cards got Prater who can bang a 62 yarder at the half. We got can't make a chip shot to win it... No more bottom of the barrel signings. Get a REAL kicker. Kirk Cousins can't run a two minute drill....wait. didn't he run a few of them pretty well in this game? And a game tying effort last week. WTF is going on here, Even though we haven't won yet we've been in both games. Despite some serious mental errors. I do think we can still turn this shit around. If we can't Zimmer and Speilman must go.

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