RE: Free Agency 2021 (Full Version)

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Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 3:25:28 PM)

Paye, Then roll the dice on a guard with the next pick. Then draft a freak boom/bust type guard with one of the million 4th rounders.

The next free agent signing should be a guard or send RS packing.

Sign a vet safety and draft one.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 3:32:59 PM)

A possible Vikings FA OL target who’s still unsigned is Ben Garland.

He has played roughly 300 to 400 snaps each year from 2017-2020 with ATL and SF.

Grades:

2020: 71.1 overall, 65.7 pass block, 72.4 run block
2019: 71.6 O, 61.9 PB, 73.1 RB
2018: 71.6 O, 59.7, 78.6 RB

(PFF Min Vikings on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 3:43:05 PM)

I know, he’s only played Center in his career, but if I‘m the Vikings, I‘d make a big push for Austin Reiter, who probably won’t break the bank. This man has NEVER allowed more than two pressures in a game and had pass blocking grades of 81.0, 79.2 and 77.7 over the past 3 years.

(Jonas Stark on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 3:44:16 PM)

Names that would still be intriguing to sign if we can make cap space

Offense

Eric Fisher
Alejandro Villanueva
TY Hilton
Sammy Watkins
Mitchell Schwartz
Austin Reiter
Austin Blythe
Lane Taylor
Golden Tate

(Chris Duncanson on Twitter)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 4:09:51 PM)

No thanks to this dude.

https://sports.yahoo.com/dolphins-reportedly-cut-former-first-round-pick-isaiah-wilson-three-days-after-trading-for-him-151550394.html?ncid=facebook_yahoosport_l0w2dc1068w




Mark Anderson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 4:10:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It feels like to me the edge rushers are more hit or miss, but the offensive linemen rated high in the draft are can't miss. It feels like to me the guards are more hit or miss, but Paye is can't miss.

Do NOT draft a tackle and try to make him a guard. OT Slater is saying he wants to play tackle. Good for him for speaking up. And scratch him off the IOL list unless you want him disgruntled from the get go. Leatherwood played LT for Alabama this past year, but he also played RG another year. And in the initial 4th and goal in the championship game, there he was at RG. They ran behind him. TD. So he is someone to consider later but not too late.

- Vera-Tucker is maybe the best pure guard, but is a player to draft in the 20s so they better not panic and reach.


- Then there is maybe the second ranked guard Wyatt Davis who got destroyed in the Alabama massacre of Ohio State.

- One of the Oklahoma guards is ranked up there. Maybe we can draft he and Davis and have an Elflein-Samia redux!

When you step out of the fantasy world, the guards in the draft are crap. Some will pan out but it's a crap shoot.

If he is going to be solid to above average Guard for the next 5 years, take him at #14. Try to get cute and get more picks and you get burned.




lyle chabot -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 4:59:29 PM)

With most of the FA capital going to the D, maybe Zimmer and company think that if the O can score 10 points per game the new and improved D can hold the lead? Just trying to figure out why no O-line so far in FA?




TJSweens -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 6:10:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

With most of the FA capital going to the D, maybe Zimmer and company think that if the O can score 10 points per game the new and improved D can hold the lead? Just trying to figure out why no O-line so far in FA?

Probably because it's a strong o-line draft.




lyle chabot -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 6:55:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

With most of the FA capital going to the D, maybe Zimmer and company think that if the O can score 10 points per game the new and improved D can hold the lead? Just trying to figure out why no O-line so far in FA?

Probably because it's a strong o-line draft.

With Spielman's past history for drafting O line?




marty -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 9:32:33 PM)

It may be good if the Vikes get OL that seem naturally good at, or have done well in pass blocking.

The Vikings OL coach doesn't seem to teach pass blocking well, so I am guessing he actually does an ok job at teaching run blocking, so that part can be developed.




thebigo -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 9:40:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

No thanks to this dude.

https://sports.yahoo.com/dolphins-reportedly-cut-former-first-round-pick-isaiah-wilson-three-days-after-trading-for-him-151550394.html?ncid=facebook_yahoosport_l0w2dc1068w


Can you say "Dimwitrius Underthehood"?




Todd M -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/21/2021 10:07:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It feels like to me the edge rushers are more hit or miss, but the offensive linemen rated high in the draft are can't miss. It feels like to me the guards are more hit or miss, but Paye is can't miss.

Do NOT draft a tackle and try to make him a guard. OT Slater is saying he wants to play tackle. Good for him for speaking up. And scratch him off the IOL list unless you want him disgruntled from the get go. Leatherwood played LT for Alabama this past year, but he also played RG another year. And in the initial 4th and goal in the championship game, there he was at RG. They ran behind him. TD. So he is someone to consider later but not too late.

- Vera-Tucker is maybe the best pure guard, but is a player to draft in the 20s so they better not panic and reach.


- Then there is maybe the second ranked guard Wyatt Davis who got destroyed in the Alabama massacre of Ohio State.

- One of the Oklahoma guards is ranked up there. Maybe we can draft he and Davis and have an Elflein-Samia redux!

When you step out of the fantasy world, the guards in the draft are crap. Some will pan out but it's a crap shoot.

If he is going to be solid to above average Guard for the next 5 years, take him at #14. Try to get cute and get more picks and you get burned.


I couldn't agree more. Pass on the best available at your biggest need bc of 7-10 arbitrary draft slots?




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 3:29:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It feels like to me the edge rushers are more hit or miss, but the offensive linemen rated high in the draft are can't miss. It feels like to me the guards are more hit or miss, but Paye is can't miss.

Do NOT draft a tackle and try to make him a guard. OT Slater is saying he wants to play tackle. Good for him for speaking up. And scratch him off the IOL list unless you want him disgruntled from the get go. Leatherwood played LT for Alabama this past year, but he also played RG another year. And in the initial 4th and goal in the championship game, there he was at RG. They ran behind him. TD. So he is someone to consider later but not too late.

- Vera-Tucker is maybe the best pure guard, but is a player to draft in the 20s so they better not panic and reach.


- Then there is maybe the second ranked guard Wyatt Davis who got destroyed in the Alabama massacre of Ohio State.

- One of the Oklahoma guards is ranked up there. Maybe we can draft he and Davis and have an Elflein-Samia redux!

When you step out of the fantasy world, the guards in the draft are crap. Some will pan out but it's a crap shoot.

If he is going to be solid to above average Guard for the next 5 years, take him at #14. Try to get cute and get more picks and you get burned.


I couldn't agree more. Pass on the best available at your biggest need bc of 7-10 arbitrary draft slots?


I could see us trading back three spots, picking up one more third rounder, drafting Vera-Tucker and using the multitude of the picks in the third and fourth rounds to move up into the second for an edge rusher or safety. With all of the free agency capital spent on defense, it feels like two of the three greater needs are still on defense. (I'm assuming that one offensive lineman is acquired in free agency, but of course we need two.)




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 3:36:31 AM)

Assuming we pick up a guard, safety, edge rusher or wide receiver from this list which one do you like. (or two if they are more affordable together)

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-100-best-available-nfl-free-agents-remaining-2021-nfl-free-agency

Edit: By the way, I was looking for Lamp and didn't even see him in their top 100. I don't know if he is a guy that we could count on to be a starter. Just saying I don't know.




Daniel Lee Young -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 5:23:03 AM)

If the defense is constantly have to return to the field after an offensive 3 and out....

Oh. Ffs why do I even bother.

I like a good defense as much as anyone, but if this board thinks that drafting middle and lower round guards and tackles is “good enough and quantity of picks is better than quality of picks” as has been done and proven wrong for at least a decade or longer, in regard to offensive linemen, then who cares?

Either draft alternating cornerbacks and quarterbacks, or draft 5-6 under tackles or edge rushers, or this draft is a bust by the end of day 3.

I Cant wait for Manion to get significant playing time after KC gets mauled by all the other teams that draft 5-6 defensive linemen and whose pass rushers now have all day, (literally 2 seconds), to waltz thru the stellar offensive line composed of cast offs, players learning positions they didn’t play in college or positions on the opposite side of the line where their best proficiency was learned, and undersized dancing warthogs, who can chip block a defensive tackle coming thru the middle, while they scamper nimbly to the second or third level to whiff spectacularly, on a linebacker or safety nowhere near the play.

Meanwhile, the living statute to cap management will be beaten into the turf, because the opponent also drafted 3-4 cornerbacks or safeties, and all the better edge rushers and interior pocket collapsing NT’s, so that all of KC’s options, for his lightning fast release, are somehow still covered by the count of “3 Mississippi”...

I never tire of watching that...




Tom Sykes -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 8:45:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Assuming we pick up a guard, safety, edge rusher or wide receiver from this list which one do you like. (or two if they are more affordable together)

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-100-best-available-nfl-free-agents-remaining-2021-nfl-free-agency

Edit: By the way, I was looking for Lamp and didn't even see him in their top 100. I don't know if he is a guy that we could count on to be a starter. Just saying I don't know.

Depressing list for OGs.

After reading up more on Lamp – he's not much if any better than our usual castoff plugin, somewhere between Klein and Dozier.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 9:37:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

With most of the FA capital going to the D, maybe Zimmer and company think that if the O can score 10 points per game the new and improved D can hold the lead? Just trying to figure out why no O-line so far in FA?

Probably because it's a strong o-line draft.


But not for guards. In your scheme we draft a tackle, play him at G, then determine that since he showed little at G nothing indicates he will be good at tackle.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 9:44:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It feels like to me the edge rushers are more hit or miss, but the offensive linemen rated high in the draft are can't miss. It feels like to me the guards are more hit or miss, but Paye is can't miss.

Do NOT draft a tackle and try to make him a guard. OT Slater is saying he wants to play tackle. Good for him for speaking up. And scratch him off the IOL list unless you want him disgruntled from the get go. Leatherwood played LT for Alabama this past year, but he also played RG another year. And in the initial 4th and goal in the championship game, there he was at RG. They ran behind him. TD. So he is someone to consider later but not too late.

- Vera-Tucker is maybe the best pure guard, but is a player to draft in the 20s so they better not panic and reach.


- Then there is maybe the second ranked guard Wyatt Davis who got destroyed in the Alabama massacre of Ohio State.

- One of the Oklahoma guards is ranked up there. Maybe we can draft he and Davis and have an Elflein-Samia redux!

When you step out of the fantasy world, the guards in the draft are crap. Some will pan out but it's a crap shoot.

If he is going to be solid to above average Guard for the next 5 years, take him at #14. Try to get cute and get more picks and you get burned.


I couldn't agree more. Pass on the best available at your biggest need bc of 7-10 arbitrary draft slots?


What I wrote is predicated on Vera-Tucker being a player projected to be picked in the 20s, i.e. teams won't pick him before that. He is rated higher AND if the Vikings think he is all that then yes don't risk losing him by trading down (assuming there are no equally rated players).

Simply put, Vera-Tucker is who we thought he was; if you want to crown him then crown his ass [:D]




Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 9:56:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

If the defense is constantly have to return to the field after an offensive 3 and out....

Oh. Ffs why do I even bother.

I like a good defense as much as anyone, but if this board thinks that drafting middle and lower round guards and tackles is “good enough and quantity of picks is better than quality of picks” as has been done and proven wrong for at least a decade or longer, in regard to offensive linemen, then who cares?

Either draft alternating cornerbacks and quarterbacks, or draft 5-6 under tackles or edge rushers, or this draft is a bust by the end of day 3.

I Cant wait for Manion to get significant playing time after KC gets mauled by all the other teams that draft 5-6 defensive linemen and whose pass rushers now have all day, (literally 2 seconds), to waltz thru the stellar offensive line composed of cast offs, players learning positions they didn’t play in college or positions on the opposite side of the line where their best proficiency was learned, and undersized dancing warthogs, who can chip block a defensive tackle coming thru the middle, while they scamper nimbly to the second or third level to whiff spectacularly, on a linebacker or safety nowhere near the play.

Meanwhile, the living statute to cap management will be beaten into the turf, because the opponent also drafted 3-4 cornerbacks or safeties, and all the better edge rushers and interior pocket collapsing NT’s, so that all of KC’s options, for his lightning fast release, are somehow still covered by the count of “3 Mississippi”...

I never tire of watching that...


Well the saving grace is the regime is so great at evaluating IOL talent. Just look at Bradbury at #17.




TJSweens -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 10:18:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

With most of the FA capital going to the D, maybe Zimmer and company think that if the O can score 10 points per game the new and improved D can hold the lead? Just trying to figure out why no O-line so far in FA?

Probably because it's a strong o-line draft.


But not for guards. In your scheme we draft a tackle, play him at G, then determine that since he showed little at G nothing indicates he will be good at tackle.

If aggravating o-line draft history has shown us anything, it is that the Vikings won't hesitate to draft a lineman without having a specific position in mind. They drafted Cleveland, who had exclusively played LT and immediately on draft night talked about how he could play guard or tackle. Once Reiff took a pay cut, he never took another rep at tackle. Bradbury was C or G, but probably C. Elf was C or G, but probably C, no probably LG, no RG is his natural pos... no, turns out he sucks.

My guess, which is a total crap shoot, is that they draft a tackle and keep Cleveland at G. Beyond that, they will sign a scrap heap FA guard and draft an athletic lineman and say he can play G or T because they really have no idea what he is. Rinse and repeat.




TJSweens -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 10:21:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

If the defense is constantly have to return to the field after an offensive 3 and out....

Oh. Ffs why do I even bother.

I like a good defense as much as anyone, but if this board thinks that drafting middle and lower round guards and tackles is “good enough and quantity of picks is better than quality of picks” as has been done and proven wrong for at least a decade or longer, in regard to offensive linemen, then who cares?

Either draft alternating cornerbacks and quarterbacks, or draft 5-6 under tackles or edge rushers, or this draft is a bust by the end of day 3.

I Cant wait for Manion to get significant playing time after KC gets mauled by all the other teams that draft 5-6 defensive linemen and whose pass rushers now have all day, (literally 2 seconds), to waltz thru the stellar offensive line composed of cast offs, players learning positions they didn’t play in college or positions on the opposite side of the line where their best proficiency was learned, and undersized dancing warthogs, who can chip block a defensive tackle coming thru the middle, while they scamper nimbly to the second or third level to whiff spectacularly, on a linebacker or safety nowhere near the play.

Meanwhile, the living statute to cap management will be beaten into the turf, because the opponent also drafted 3-4 cornerbacks or safeties, and all the better edge rushers and interior pocket collapsing NT’s, so that all of KC’s options, for his lightning fast release, are somehow still covered by the count of “3 Mississippi”...

I never tire of watching that...


Well the saving grace is the regime is so great at evaluating IOL talent. Just look at Bradbury at #17.

Weren't there a lot of alleged draft experts who were calling Bradbury the best C prospect in years?




Pauldiercks1 -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 10:23:39 AM)

I don't recall best prospect in years, but yes I remember they were hyping him up quite a bit.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 10:31:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: lyle chabot

With most of the FA capital going to the D, maybe Zimmer and company think that if the O can score 10 points per game the new and improved D can hold the lead? Just trying to figure out why no O-line so far in FA?

Probably because it's a strong o-line draft.


But not for guards. In your scheme we draft a tackle, play him at G, then determine that since he showed little at G nothing indicates he will be good at tackle.

If aggravating o-line draft history has shown us anything, it is that the Vikings won't hesitate to draft a lineman without having a specific position in mind. They drafted Cleveland, who had exclusively played LT and immediately on draft night talked about how he could play guard or tackle. Once Reiff took a pay cut, he never took another rep at tackle. Bradbury was C or G, but probably C. Elf was C or G, but probably C, no probably LG, no RG is his natural pos... no, turns out he sucks.

My guess, which is a total crap shoot, is that they draft a tackle and keep Cleveland at G. Beyond that, they will sign a scrap heap FA guard and draft an athletic lineman and say he can play G or T because they really have no idea what he is. Rinse and repeat.


If you think they will take a tackle then yes the draft is deeper for viable candidates. Their history, as you summarized, suggests so.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 10:36:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

I don't recall best prospect in years, but yes I remember they were hyping him up quite a bit.



I think part of the hype was he was perfect for our scheme. I liked Jenkins who was also rated very high, especially after seeing Elf and others not being able to push the pocket nor anchor.

Bradbury became classified as this safe fit who would add 20 lbs and solidify C for years. Wasn't he a wrestler too? That automatically moves you up a round with Zimmer.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 11:26:49 AM)

.
.
all of the guards presently signed with the Vikings....

dru samia
zach bailey

rashod hill (listed as a guard on roster)




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