RE: Free Agency 2021 (Full Version)

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Chris Olson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 11:32:28 AM)

I remember them saying he was great fit, but also one of best C prospects of last 5-10 years...

this is the kind of hype I remember: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/3/18288079/garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft-2019-minnesota-vikings-center-first-round-scouting-report

and now this is what we are hearing about Bradbury today: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/pff-garrett-bradbury-vikings-worst-draft-mistake-past-5-years

that is basically two OL can't miss prospects from last 10 years that were complete whiffs...I can remember how elated I felt over both those picks, thinking how they would lock up their position for next decade +

sigh




Chris Olson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 11:33:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
all of the guards presently signed with the Vikings....

dru samia
zach bailey

rashod hill (listed as a guard on roster)

yikes




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 11:50:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I remember them saying he was great fit, but also one of best C prospects of last 5-10 years...

this is the kind of hype I remember: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/3/18288079/garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft-2019-minnesota-vikings-center-first-round-scouting-report

and now this is what we are hearing about Bradbury today: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/pff-garrett-bradbury-vikings-worst-draft-mistake-past-5-years

that is basically two OL can't miss prospects from last 10 years that were complete whiffs...I can remember how elated I felt over both those picks, thinking how they would lock up their position for next decade +

sigh


I'm going to blame coaching.

There are a lot of free agents left. I don't think many of them are going to get the kind of money they were expecting. There are going to be some good bargains if the Vikings remain patient.




Tom Sykes -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 12:23:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I remember them saying he was great fit, but also one of best C prospects of last 5-10 years...

this is the kind of hype I remember: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/3/18288079/garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft-2019-minnesota-vikings-center-first-round-scouting-report

and now this is what we are hearing about Bradbury today: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/pff-garrett-bradbury-vikings-worst-draft-mistake-past-5-years

that is basically two OL can't miss prospects from last 10 years that were complete whiffs...I can remember how elated I felt over both those picks, thinking how they would lock up their position for next decade +

sigh


I'm going to blame coaching.

There are a lot of free agents left. I don't think many of them are going to get the kind of money they were expecting. There are going to be some good bargains if the Vikings remain patient.

I don't pretend to have a clue about scheme fit, but IMO we are already at the bargain bin phase of FA OGs. As in, its a bargain for the players out there to get signed by any team. (ok that's harsh but....)

Top Free Agent Guards STILL Available (keep in mind walterfootball rankings are for free agent OGs only, pff are for all positions)

walterfootball.com (Top FA Guard rankings updated 03/20)

#4 Lane Taylor, G, Packers. Age: 31. (ranked #222 FA by pff)
Lane Taylor is a very talented guard, but he's also a 31-year-old coming off a knee injury, so there is definitely major risk involved.

#6 Trai Turner, G, Chargers. Age: 27.
It seemed like the Chargers obtained a steam when they traded for Trai Turner in exchange for Russell Okung. Turner, however, had an injury-ravaged 2020 campaign, which was his worst in the NFL. Turner is still young, however, so he figures to rebound in 2021 and beyond.

#10 Mike Iupati, G, Seahawks. Age: 34.
Seattle missed Mike Iupati when he was sidelined in 2020. He still blocks well at his age, but his durability is a major issue.

#11 Jermaine Eluemunor, G/OT, Patriots. Age: 26. (ranked #221 FA by pff)
Jermaine Eluemunor has been a career backup thus far, but he played well in relief for New England last year. He deserves a chance to compete for a starting job, and at 26, he has some upside.

#12 John Miller, G, Panthers. Age: 28.
John Miller is a capable starter, but has some injury concerns. He's played just one full season in his career.

For comparison sake, Elflein was the #16 rated FA OG, Forrest Lamp is #20, Nick Easton is #21.

pff.com (Top 250 FA rankings updated 03/20)

193. OG James Carpenter (ranked #23 FA OG by walterfootball)
The last two years for Carpenter looked a lot like his first two in the league when he was on his way to being viewed as a first-round draft bust. He has overall PFF grades of just 45 and 56 over those two years and hasn’t had an above average year in pass protection since 2018.

207. G Oday Aboushi (ranked #24 FA OG by walterfootball)
After an excellent start to his career with a 71.7 overall grade in 2014, Aboushi rarely approached that level of play until last season’s 66.6 graded in eight games as a starter. He allowed an impressive 11 pressures on 426 attempts last season and he’s done his best work in gap schemes in the run game.




bohumm -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 1:43:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

I don't recall best prospect in years, but yes I remember they were hyping him up quite a bit.

Daniel Jeremiah in particular called him a perennial Pro-Bowler at a minimum. Other than sporadically stated concerns about the ability to stand up to a bull rush and other play strength issues, he was pretty universally hailed. The few who didn't like him or didn't like the pick seemed to be outliers....who may have had it exactly right.

But remember, then, like now, we had a completely vacant spot on our IOL. The Elf move was hailed as a better fit for him, but no matter what we had to fill an IOL starter position and depth through the draft and the dregs remaining in FA.

Past is prologue. Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly to the past.




The Happy Norseman -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 1:46:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I remember them saying he was great fit, but also one of best C prospects of last 5-10 years...

this is the kind of hype I remember: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/3/18288079/garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft-2019-minnesota-vikings-center-first-round-scouting-report

and now this is what we are hearing about Bradbury today: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/pff-garrett-bradbury-vikings-worst-draft-mistake-past-5-years

that is basically two OL can't miss prospects from last 10 years that were complete whiffs...I can remember how elated I felt over both those picks, thinking how they would lock up their position for next decade +

sigh


I'm going to blame coaching.

There are a lot of free agents left. I don't think many of them are going to get the kind of money they were expecting. There are going to be some good bargains if the Vikings remain patient.

I don't pretend to have a clue about scheme fit, but IMO we are already at the bargain bin phase of FA OGs. As in, its a bargain for the players out there to get signed by any team. (ok that's harsh but....)

Top Free Agent Guards STILL Available (keep in mind walterfootball rankings are for free agent OGs only, pff are for all positions)

walterfootball.com (Top FA Guard rankings updated 03/20)

#4 Lane Taylor, G, Packers. Age: 31. (ranked #222 FA by pff)
Lane Taylor is a very talented guard, but he's also a 31-year-old coming off a knee injury, so there is definitely major risk involved.

#6 Trai Turner, G, Chargers. Age: 27.
It seemed like the Chargers obtained a steam when they traded for Trai Turner in exchange for Russell Okung. Turner, however, had an injury-ravaged 2020 campaign, which was his worst in the NFL. Turner is still young, however, so he figures to rebound in 2021 and beyond.

#10 Mike Iupati, G, Seahawks. Age: 34.
Seattle missed Mike Iupati when he was sidelined in 2020. He still blocks well at his age, but his durability is a major issue.

#11 Jermaine Eluemunor, G/OT, Patriots. Age: 26. (ranked #221 FA by pff)
Jermaine Eluemunor has been a career backup thus far, but he played well in relief for New England last year. He deserves a chance to compete for a starting job, and at 26, he has some upside.

#12 John Miller, G, Panthers. Age: 28.
John Miller is a capable starter, but has some injury concerns. He's played just one full season in his career.

For comparison sake, Elflein was the #16 rated FA OG, Forrest Lamp is #20, Nick Easton is #21.

pff.com (Top 250 FA rankings updated 03/20)

193. OG James Carpenter (ranked #23 FA OG by walterfootball)
The last two years for Carpenter looked a lot like his first two in the league when he was on his way to being viewed as a first-round draft bust. He has overall PFF grades of just 45 and 56 over those two years and hasn’t had an above average year in pass protection since 2018.

207. G Oday Aboushi (ranked #24 FA OG by walterfootball)
After an excellent start to his career with a 71.7 overall grade in 2014, Aboushi rarely approached that level of play until last season’s 66.6 graded in eight games as a starter. He allowed an impressive 11 pressures on 426 attempts last season and he’s done his best work in gap schemes in the run game.


Spielman has taken a bad oline and made it worse. The team currently has 3 starters total! The BEST case scenario is that whoever the team gets off the scrap heap is an upgrade over Dozier, and that whoever RS drafts can step in on day one and be a serviceable starter. Yikes! Worst case scenario, the scrap heap FA sucks or gets injured, and our draft pick underwhelms. History would point to the latter scenario. Either way, zero depth means one injury and we're toast. Doesn't seem like the way to build a Superbowl contender.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 3:20:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I remember them saying he was great fit, but also one of best C prospects of last 5-10 years...

this is the kind of hype I remember: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/3/18288079/garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft-2019-minnesota-vikings-center-first-round-scouting-report

and now this is what we are hearing about Bradbury today: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/pff-garrett-bradbury-vikings-worst-draft-mistake-past-5-years

that is basically two OL can't miss prospects from last 10 years that were complete whiffs...I can remember how elated I felt over both those picks, thinking how they would lock up their position for next decade +

sigh


I'm going to blame coaching.

There are a lot of free agents left. I don't think many of them are going to get the kind of money they were expecting. There are going to be some good bargains if the Vikings remain patient.

I don't pretend to have a clue about scheme fit, but IMO we are already at the bargain bin phase of FA OGs. As in, its a bargain for the players out there to get signed by any team. (ok that's harsh but....)

Top Free Agent Guards STILL Available (keep in mind walterfootball rankings are for free agent OGs only, pff are for all positions)

walterfootball.com (Top FA Guard rankings updated 03/20)

#4 Lane Taylor, G, Packers. Age: 31. (ranked #222 FA by pff)
Lane Taylor is a very talented guard, but he's also a 31-year-old coming off a knee injury, so there is definitely major risk involved.

#6 Trai Turner, G, Chargers. Age: 27.
It seemed like the Chargers obtained a steam when they traded for Trai Turner in exchange for Russell Okung. Turner, however, had an injury-ravaged 2020 campaign, which was his worst in the NFL. Turner is still young, however, so he figures to rebound in 2021 and beyond.

#10 Mike Iupati, G, Seahawks. Age: 34.
Seattle missed Mike Iupati when he was sidelined in 2020. He still blocks well at his age, but his durability is a major issue.

#11 Jermaine Eluemunor, G/OT, Patriots. Age: 26. (ranked #221 FA by pff)
Jermaine Eluemunor has been a career backup thus far, but he played well in relief for New England last year. He deserves a chance to compete for a starting job, and at 26, he has some upside.

#12 John Miller, G, Panthers. Age: 28.
John Miller is a capable starter, but has some injury concerns. He's played just one full season in his career.

For comparison sake, Elflein was the #16 rated FA OG, Forrest Lamp is #20, Nick Easton is #21.

pff.com (Top 250 FA rankings updated 03/20)

193. OG James Carpenter (ranked #23 FA OG by walterfootball)
The last two years for Carpenter looked a lot like his first two in the league when he was on his way to being viewed as a first-round draft bust. He has overall PFF grades of just 45 and 56 over those two years and hasn’t had an above average year in pass protection since 2018.

207. G Oday Aboushi (ranked #24 FA OG by walterfootball)
After an excellent start to his career with a 71.7 overall grade in 2014, Aboushi rarely approached that level of play until last season’s 66.6 graded in eight games as a starter. He allowed an impressive 11 pressures on 426 attempts last season and he’s done his best work in gap schemes in the run game.


Spielman has taken a bad oline and made it worse. The team currently has 3 starters total! The BEST case scenario is that whoever the team gets off the scrap heap is an upgrade over Dozier, and that whoever RS drafts can step in on day one and be a serviceable starter. Yikes! Worst case scenario, the scrap heap FA sucks or gets injured, and our draft pick underwhelms. History would point to the latter scenario. Either way, zero depth means one injury and we're toast. Doesn't seem like the way to build a Superbowl contender.


Aboushi rarely approached that level of play until last season’s 66.6 graded in eight games as a starter. He allowed an impressive 11 pressures on 426 attempts last season and he’s done his best work in gap schemes in the run game.

There's our man!




Tom Sykes -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 3:26:02 PM)

I suppose Trai Turner or Lane Taylor, if healthy, would be better on paper than Kline who is, unfortunately, our gold OG standard during the Zimmer reign.

So there's that. Maybe they bank on proving their health in 2021 on the cheap.

I think Spielman is the only person who perks up his ears when he hears the term, 'injury ravaged'. Similar to the 'squirrel' dog thing.




Tom Sykes -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 3:28:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I remember them saying he was great fit, but also one of best C prospects of last 5-10 years...

this is the kind of hype I remember: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/3/18288079/garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft-2019-minnesota-vikings-center-first-round-scouting-report

and now this is what we are hearing about Bradbury today: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/pff-garrett-bradbury-vikings-worst-draft-mistake-past-5-years

that is basically two OL can't miss prospects from last 10 years that were complete whiffs...I can remember how elated I felt over both those picks, thinking how they would lock up their position for next decade +

sigh


I'm going to blame coaching.

There are a lot of free agents left. I don't think many of them are going to get the kind of money they were expecting. There are going to be some good bargains if the Vikings remain patient.

I don't pretend to have a clue about scheme fit, but IMO we are already at the bargain bin phase of FA OGs. As in, its a bargain for the players out there to get signed by any team. (ok that's harsh but....)

Top Free Agent Guards STILL Available (keep in mind walterfootball rankings are for free agent OGs only, pff are for all positions)

walterfootball.com (Top FA Guard rankings updated 03/20)

#4 Lane Taylor, G, Packers. Age: 31. (ranked #222 FA by pff)
Lane Taylor is a very talented guard, but he's also a 31-year-old coming off a knee injury, so there is definitely major risk involved.

#6 Trai Turner, G, Chargers. Age: 27.
It seemed like the Chargers obtained a steam when they traded for Trai Turner in exchange for Russell Okung. Turner, however, had an injury-ravaged 2020 campaign, which was his worst in the NFL. Turner is still young, however, so he figures to rebound in 2021 and beyond.

#10 Mike Iupati, G, Seahawks. Age: 34.
Seattle missed Mike Iupati when he was sidelined in 2020. He still blocks well at his age, but his durability is a major issue.

#11 Jermaine Eluemunor, G/OT, Patriots. Age: 26. (ranked #221 FA by pff)
Jermaine Eluemunor has been a career backup thus far, but he played well in relief for New England last year. He deserves a chance to compete for a starting job, and at 26, he has some upside.

#12 John Miller, G, Panthers. Age: 28.
John Miller is a capable starter, but has some injury concerns. He's played just one full season in his career.

For comparison sake, Elflein was the #16 rated FA OG, Forrest Lamp is #20, Nick Easton is #21.

pff.com (Top 250 FA rankings updated 03/20)

193. OG James Carpenter (ranked #23 FA OG by walterfootball)
The last two years for Carpenter looked a lot like his first two in the league when he was on his way to being viewed as a first-round draft bust. He has overall PFF grades of just 45 and 56 over those two years and hasn’t had an above average year in pass protection since 2018.

207. G Oday Aboushi (ranked #24 FA OG by walterfootball)
After an excellent start to his career with a 71.7 overall grade in 2014, Aboushi rarely approached that level of play until last season’s 66.6 graded in eight games as a starter. He allowed an impressive 11 pressures on 426 attempts last season and he’s done his best work in gap schemes in the run game.


Spielman has taken a bad oline and made it worse. The team currently has 3 starters total! The BEST case scenario is that whoever the team gets off the scrap heap is an upgrade over Dozier, and that whoever RS drafts can step in on day one and be a serviceable starter. Yikes! Worst case scenario, the scrap heap FA sucks or gets injured, and our draft pick underwhelms. History would point to the latter scenario. Either way, zero depth means one injury and we're toast. Doesn't seem like the way to build a Superbowl contender.


Aboushi rarely approached that level of play until last season’s 66.6 graded in eight games as a starter. He allowed an impressive 11 pressures on 426 attempts last season and he’s done his best work in gap schemes in the run game.

There's our man!

As long as he's ranked in the top 300 FAs, I'm on board.




Tom Sykes -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 3:33:48 PM)

Chris Tomasson
@christomasson
43m
A source said official #Vikings signing of free-agent LB Nick Vigil has been pushed back due to "team business." Could be pushed back to later this week or could be as much as a few weeks. Regardless, source said of Vigil, "He's a Viking."

Everything is on hold at Winter Park until they talk Spielman (with no 7th rd pick) off the ledge.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 4:20:34 PM)

.
.
Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
Peterson said the plan is for him to play at cornerback in Minnesota. He said on Brandon Marshall's podcast recently that he'd be open to the idea of moving to safety, but reiterated that the Vikings want him at cornerback and brought him in to play cornerback.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 4:26:10 PM)

For those of us who missed part or all of the press conference today.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/five-takeaways-patrick-peterson-first-vikings-press-conference




Bill Johanesen -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 4:29:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
Peterson said the plan is for him to play at cornerback in Minnesota. He said on Brandon Marshall's podcast recently that he'd be open to the idea of moving to safety, but reiterated that the Vikings want him at cornerback and brought him in to play cornerback.


So that is answered.




marty -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/22/2021 9:04:28 PM)

Well right now, I am glad the Vikings didn't trade for Deshaun Watson, considering he has 13 sexual conduct lawsuits [SCL] against him.

SCLs might be worse than ACL problems.




Bill Jandro -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 8:46:18 AM)

We still have some gaping holes.

LT
LG
S
DE

All need starters.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 8:50:24 AM)

#Vikings going after a safety and a guard, per Doogie. Some names to remember:

• G Forrest Lamp
• S Xavier Woods
• S Will Parks

There’s also interest in an unnamed offensive tackle (APPEARS to be Eric Fisher) if the team can make the $ work

Sean Borman on Twitter




Bill Jandro -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 8:57:56 AM)

At this point LT has to be the #1 priority. I know we do have some options for moving O'Neal or Ezra over there.

A trade for Orlando Brown appears to have stalled due to balt's asking price.

I think a Slater or Darrisaw will fall to #14 but that's a bit of a gamble.




TJSweens -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 9:00:29 AM)

I also read this morning that the Vikings knocked more off the cap than the $2.9 million reported for renegotiating Barr. They also converted a chunk of this year's salary to a bonus paid over the last 3 years of the deal. As of now, the Vikings have a little over $10M in cap space and will get another $7.9M June 1, when Rudy comes off the books.




Bruce Johnson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 9:03:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I also read this morning that the Vikings knocked more off the cap than the $2.9 million reported for renegotiating Barr. They also converted a chunk of this year's salary to a bonus paid over the last 3 years of the deal. As of now, the Vikings have a little over $10M in cap space and will get another $7.9M June 1, when Rudy comes off the books.


Some of Rudy's money will have to go to the rookie pool- not sure how much that is.




David F. -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 9:03:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Well right now, I am glad the Vikings didn't trade for Deshaun Watson, considering he has 13 sexual conduct lawsuits [SCL] against him.

SCLs might be worse than ACL problems.


Remember when Peyton Manning was accused of the exact same thing?




thebigo -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 9:13:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Well right now, I am glad the Vikings didn't trade for Deshaun Watson, considering he has 13 sexual conduct lawsuits [SCL] against him.

SCLs might be worse than ACL problems.


Remember when Peyton Manning was accused of the exact same thing?


Him and Al Franken.




thebigo -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 9:16:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Well right now, I am glad the Vikings didn't trade for Deshaun Watson, considering he has 13 sexual conduct lawsuits [SCL] against him.

SCLs might be worse than ACL problems.


13 ACL problems would be bad also.




Mark Anderson -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 9:33:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

At this point LT has to be the #1 priority. I know we do have some options for moving O'Neal or Ezra over there.

A trade for Orlando Brown appears to have stalled due to balt's asking price.

I think a Slater or Darrisaw will fall to #14 but that's a bit of a gamble.

Vera Tucker or Cosmi are not bad options either.

Loaded OLine draft. We have to take advantage.




ronhextall -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 9:44:28 AM)

Watson turned into Vick in a couple weeks.

He is going to get suspended for at least 6 games IMO. NFL suspends without needed any court/legal proof.

Texans should have moved him.




TJSweens -> RE: Free Agency 2021 (3/23/2021 10:15:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

At this point LT has to be the #1 priority. I know we do have some options for moving O'Neal or Ezra over there.

A trade for Orlando Brown appears to have stalled due to balt's asking price.

I think a Slater or Darrisaw will fall to #14 but that's a bit of a gamble.

Vera Tucker or Cosmi are not bad options either.

Loaded OLine draft. We have to take advantage.

The problem is that when a draft is loaded on the Oline, the Vikings take the approach that there will be decent Olinemen in the middle rounds and they take a corner in the first.




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