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jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 9:53:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road. Interesting thought. Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense. the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild.... i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now.... next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason.... I don't know why you would go into rebuild mode.....you have talent on offense. Worst case is you trade Defense pieces and rebuild the defense on the fly. Converting Hunters contract to signing bonus and not restructuring Kirk is where I would start....Draft a high end CB in 1st round and throw all the draft resources at the defense. If you want clean you don't do what you did the last couple years. They have put together a great coaching staff on both sides and hopefully they draft well. Kwesi and KOC have a championship blueprint -- that's what impressed the Wilfs, and that's why they were hired. We don't know what that entails (or whether it ultimately succeeds), but pretty good guess that their roster blueprint differs in important dimensions from the current roster. I think they'll focus on positioning themselves for maximum flexibility beginning with the 2023 season since there is only so much they can do w.r.t. the cap for 2022. The low hanging fruit is a purge on defense, since they clearly overpaid for their 30th-ranked performance.

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 9:56:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road. Interesting thought. Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense. the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild.... i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now.... next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason.... Until something creative is done, we are soo far over the cap we can’t even field a complete team. Let alone a competitive one. We have 57 players under some kind of contract and are 16 million dollars in the red. Notable unrestricted free agents Minnesota Vikings 2022 UFAs Player Pos. 2021 Team Snaps Age 2022 Team Xavier Woods S Vikings 100.00% 27 Tyler Conklin TE Vikings 81.00% 27 Patrick Peterson CB Vikings 73.30% 32 Anthony Barr LB Vikings 64.90% 30 Nick Vigil LB Vikings 59.50% 29 Mackensie Alexander CB Vikings 57.10% 29 Sheldon Richardson IDL Vikings 57.00% 32 Mason Cole C Vikings 41.40% 26 Everson Griffen EDGE Vikings 37.80% 35 Jordan Berry P Vikings 32.70% 31 Rashod Hill LT Vikings 30.00% 30 Dede Westbrook WR Vikings 18.50% 29 Christopher Herndon IV TE Vikings 16.10% 26 Luke Stocker TE Vikings 13.50% 34 Sean Mannion QB Vikings 4.50% 30 Wayne Gallman RB Vikings 4.40% 28 Tashawn Bower EDGE Vikings 4.20% 27 Chad Beebe WR Vikings 0.00% 28 Dakota Dozier LG Vikings 0.00% 31 That has to be fixed by March 16 th, 4 pm.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 10:07:48 AM)
Age old problem of continuing with mediocrity vs rebuilding with assets (picks, players, cap space) used from a teardown. If one objectively looks at the D, it's full of holes. And I think we need to get rid of some underperforming contracts like Smith and Hunter but that creates more holes. Trading them SOUNDS good, but IMO that's based on unrealistic returns. A #10 overall for Hunter? Laughable. At the end of the day, I think it's important to accept 1) the D needs a lot of work, 2) future maneuvers won't be sprinkled with pixie dust, and 3) you've got to accept the pain from any type of real retooling. Morale on O will suck the longer this is drawn out. So rebuild in the fastest way possible. Wouldn't be surprised in the least if by next year the OL is the strength of the team.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 10:15:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road. Interesting thought. Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense. the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild.... i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now.... next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason.... Guess it's the semantics of 'competitive', but that looks like we are just going to run back last year. Yeah we can "win".... something like 8 games. "...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...". Not sure what that means. But lacking draft assets and cap, we'll likely have to accept sitting out the first and some of the second wave of free agency until "the crazy market cools." Breeland might be available.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 10:37:33 AM)
Wilf at KAM's interview. "So, your resume says you've done analytics and you have an economics background. Hired! Because we've got one hell of an economic mess with our salary cap."

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 10:48:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road. Interesting thought. Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense. the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild.... i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now.... next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason.... Until something creative is done, we are soo far over the cap we can’t even field a complete team. Let alone a competitive one. We have 57 players under some kind of contract and are 16 million dollars in the red. Notable unrestricted free agents Minnesota Vikings 2022 UFAs Player Pos. 2021 Team Snaps Age 2022 Team Xavier Woods S Vikings 100.00% 27 Tyler Conklin TE Vikings 81.00% 27 Patrick Peterson CB Vikings 73.30% 32 Anthony Barr LB Vikings 64.90% 30 Nick Vigil LB Vikings 59.50% 29 Mackensie Alexander CB Vikings 57.10% 29 Sheldon Richardson IDL Vikings 57.00% 32 Mason Cole C Vikings 41.40% 26 Everson Griffen EDGE Vikings 37.80% 35 Jordan Berry P Vikings 32.70% 31 Rashod Hill LT Vikings 30.00% 30 Dede Westbrook WR Vikings 18.50% 29 Christopher Herndon IV TE Vikings 16.10% 26 Luke Stocker TE Vikings 13.50% 34 Sean Mannion QB Vikings 4.50% 30 Wayne Gallman RB Vikings 4.40% 28 Tashawn Bower EDGE Vikings 4.20% 27 Chad Beebe WR Vikings 0.00% 28 Dakota Dozier LG Vikings 0.00% 31 That has to be fixed by March 16 th, 4 pm. I think it starts and finishes with Thielen, Cook/Mattison, Pierce, Tomlinson (to get cap space). Thielen and Cook are bloated; Pierce and Tomlinson have single years left and are given extensions or traded. Mattison is cheap and has trade value. Hunter is either traded or converted bringing us almost to 0 on the cap scale. The others are the cap we need to build the defense. I would rather trade Hunter and Cook than restructure Kirk again.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:24:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. When’s the last time he was relevant, on the field? Maybe it’s Zimmer’s fault, maybe he can’t run routes, maybe cousins can’t trust him, or maybe he is never “ open enough” by the time the sand in the hourglass gets to “tight end route read”.. Who knows.. We save 1.28 million against the cap to not have him standing on the sidelines pretending he is a player. Maybe he's always injured?

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:28:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road. Interesting thought. Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense. the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild.... i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now.... next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason.... I don't know why you would go into rebuild mode.....you have talent on offense. Worst case is you trade Defense pieces and rebuild the defense on the fly. Converting Hunters contract to signing bonus and not restructuring Kirk is where I would start....Draft a high end CB in 1st round and throw all the draft resources at the defense. If you want clean you don't do what you did the last couple years. They have put together a great coaching staff on both sides and hopefully they draft well. Most (if not all) of these guys haven't coached a single NFL game at their positions with us.

ronhextall -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:36:13 AM)
I would be shocked if extended Kirk was part of KAM's plan. Trade him or live with it for a season. I would think extending him destroys any future plans. You can pay a QB that much unless his last name is Mahomes or Rodgers IMO.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:37:39 AM)
You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here...

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:38:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young Well it’s no surprise that cousins is not interested in doing a deal. He has a winning lottery ticket, all he needs to do is cash it. That's your response to, "Word is that Cousin's agents have told the Vikings ...?" What happen to your standards? What do you want me to do? Thank him for refusing to try and work a deal? I’m fine with paying him his contract, then letting him walk. We need to move on from the shit contracts Spielman handed out.. Player turnover is a normal thing. Good organizations find younger talent and build on that. Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? We could live and move on from all of them. Save 26 million in cap. I think 26 million could do some work in FA. I don’t hold these players as worthless, well Irv jr. and Stanley,, but the are vastly overpaid for no other reason than ex- coach/ Stan- fan favorites. Why are we paying Hunter so much money? He has talent, yes, but how many defensive snaps, versus the amount of money he has been paid, over the past 2 seasons? C’mon. 125 million dollars of cap tied up in the top six players on over the cap.com You don’t build a competitive, balanced team, with that kind of overcommitted cap space to six players. I stopped at the bold ... what I was referencing is you ranted about any info regarding our "new" coaching and Twitter being so unreliable yet you take "word is ..." (why, bc it gives you an opportunity to take a shot at Cousins?) Come on now, big guy - you can own it ;) I should of let this go but I thought the irony was too good pass up. I respect your thoughts on Cousins. I'm not sure "irony" is the correct term here. [sm=scratch.gif]

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:42:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road. Interesting thought. Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense. the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild.... i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now.... next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason.... I don't know why you would go into rebuild mode.....you have talent on offense. Worst case is you trade Defense pieces and rebuild the defense on the fly. Converting Hunters contract to signing bonus and not restructuring Kirk is where I would start....Draft a high end CB in 1st round and throw all the draft resources at the defense. If you want clean you don't do what you did the last couple years. They have put together a great coaching staff on both sides and hopefully they draft well. Most (if not all) of these guys haven't coached a single NFL game at their positions with us. So you like Zimmer's coaching staff better?

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:46:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... Not sure we need the refresher... I like Irv and all, but 30/365/5 is pretty low standards for "breaking out". His single game career highs are 6 receptions, 64 yards and 2 TDs. He's broken 40 yards 6 times, and has scored TDs in 5 games.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:48:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... some might be referring to harrison in a response to an irv note.... if we're not extending cousins, trade him now for as much as possible...let's see what mond has, and set up to draft a qb in 2023 - unless we love mond....

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:48:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: jbusse quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Desperate management tries to keep older players with declining talent and character issues in an attempt to protect themselves by claiming that the known is better than the unknown. Thielen, Smith, Griffen, Irv smith Jr, fn China doll Hunter, Barr, Nate Stanley? ----- Irv Smith? He's making peanuts year 4 of his rookie contract. Doesn't belong on your list. I do think Spielman and Zimmer were desperate, understanding that they needed to win big or else, which led to the string of poor contract decisions. The new management team has no such issues for a while. As such, if they so choose, they could clean up the cap issues in one year. Take a few big cap hits, lose a lot of games, and start with a clean slate in 2023 vs. another mediocre year (good offense, poor, aging, oft-injured defense) and kicking the cap issues down the road. Interesting thought. Kind of flies in the face if that they said they were gonna do but I guess they couldn't come right out and say it. But getting clean so to speak and getting it to where it's KO guys asap does make sense. the problem with that is we don't get a competitive game for 19 months - if then...maybe another year or two in a rebuild.... i say, go with cousins, or go with mond or someone else - but build a team around them that can win now...a couple of cb's and interior linemen and we're there...do a reload now.... next offseason we can dump cook, smith, thielen, maybe hunter...do another reload next offseason.... I don't know why you would go into rebuild mode.....you have talent on offense. Worst case is you trade Defense pieces and rebuild the defense on the fly. Converting Hunters contract to signing bonus and not restructuring Kirk is where I would start....Draft a high end CB in 1st round and throw all the draft resources at the defense. If you want clean you don't do what you did the last couple years. They have put together a great coaching staff on both sides and hopefully they draft well. Most (if not all) of these guys haven't coached a single NFL game at their positions with us. So you like Zimmer's coaching staff better? That's not at all what he said - or even implied. Just that maybe it's a little soon to throw around "great coaching staff" before they coach a single game? We honestly don't know if the new staff will be better or worse than Zimmer's. We all hope for better, but it can't be assumed.

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:53:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... MAYBE he was poised for a big 2021, his 2020 sophomore season was basically the same as his 2019 rookie season except for 5 TDs vs 2. I've still got hope for him, but even if completely healthy for the 2022 season, does missing all of 2021 set him back a bit?

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:54:09 AM)
Just a question....I think he put a great staff together pretty quick. Just getting Pettine and Donatell....

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 11:57:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... MAYBE he was poised for a big 2021, his 2020 sophomore season was basically the same as his 2019 rookie season except for 5 TDs vs 2. I've still got hope for him, but even if completely healthy for the 2022 season, does missing all of 2021 set him back a bit? He was looking really good December 2020; 3 games 150 yards and 3 TDs...just hope he can get healthy.

Todd M -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 12:13:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... Not sure we need the refresher... I like Irv and all, but 30/365/5 is pretty low standards for "breaking out". His single game career highs are 6 receptions, 64 yards and 2 TDs. He's broken 40 yards 6 times, and has scored TDs in 5 games. Saying 5 TD's year 2...is STARTING to come on as Rudolph petered out...is a lot more accurate than it is belonging on Dan's list... Irv was poised for a 10TD season.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 12:18:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... Not sure we need the refresher... I like Irv and all, but 30/365/5 is pretty low standards for "breaking out". His single game career highs are 6 receptions, 64 yards and 2 TDs. He's broken 40 yards 6 times, and has scored TDs in 5 games. Saying 5 TD's year 2...is STARTING to come on as Rudolph petered out...is a lot more accurate than it is belonging on Dan's list... Irv was poised for a 10TD season. It's...fine? He still looks a lot closer to "easily replaceable" than "stud". Is he better than Conklin?

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 12:33:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... MAYBE he was poised for a big 2021, his 2020 sophomore season was basically the same as his 2019 rookie season except for 5 TDs vs 2. I've still got hope for him, but even if completely healthy for the 2022 season, does missing all of 2021 set him back a bit? He was looking really good December 2020; 3 games 150 yards and 3 TDs...just hope he can get healthy. Holy Cherry Pick! And the six games prior: 49 TOTAL yards. 8.2 ypg. The game after, a season ender at Detroit: 30 yards. "Get" healthy? Pretty low standard. How about STAY healthy.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 12:38:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M You guys need a refresher on Smith. He had started to break out in 2020 his 2nd year and was poised for a big 2021 before he went down to a season ending injury. I don't know what you guys are trying to spin here... Not sure we need the refresher... I like Irv and all, but 30/365/5 is pretty low standards for "breaking out". His single game career highs are 6 receptions, 64 yards and 2 TDs. He's broken 40 yards 6 times, and has scored TDs in 5 games. Saying 5 TD's year 2...is STARTING to come on as Rudolph petered out...is a lot more accurate than it is belonging on Dan's list... Irv was poised for a 10TD season. Poised? Osborn caught a TD in each of his last three games in 2021. Is he 'poised' for a 17 TD season in 2022?

thebigo -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 12:48:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Just a question....I think he put a great staff together pretty quick. Just getting Pettine and Donatell.... Other than last season, Donatell coordinated defenses (11 seasons) have been the definition of average. And I can't really get excited about an assistant head coach who's career as head coach is 10-22. These moves could turn out well/serve a purpose, but the history doesn't lend itself to a prediction of "great", IMO.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 12:59:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Just a question....I think he put a great staff together pretty quick. Just getting Pettine and Donatell.... Other than last season, Donatell coordinated defenses (11 seasons) have been the definition of average. And I can't really get excited about an assistant head coach who's career as head coach is 10-22. These moves could turn out well/serve a purpose, but the history doesn't lend itself to a prediction of "great", IMO. 2021 Broncos: 3rd in Points, 8th in Yards. 2020 Broncos: 25th in Points, 21st in Yards. 2019 Broncos: 10th in Points, 12th in Yards. Prior to 2019 he hadn't been an NFL DC since 2006.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (2/22/2022 1:04:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thebigo quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Just a question....I think he put a great staff together pretty quick. Just getting Pettine and Donatell.... Other than last season, Donatell coordinated defenses (11 seasons) have been the definition of average. And I can't really get excited about an assistant head coach who's career as head coach is 10-22. These moves could turn out well/serve a purpose, but the history doesn't lend itself to a prediction of "great", IMO. But you neglect to factor in a couple of key Philisms: - They lost several close games each season so their records are better... easily by 3-4 games a year. - They had injuries to several mediocre starters and key backups, if healthy that's a couple of victories a year.

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