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Steve Lentz -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 11:18:45 AM)

Our 2 starting guards finished 1st and 3rd in pressures allowed.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 11:45:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Our 2 starting guards finished 1st and 3rd in pressures allowed.


Pressures allowed and sacks are a function of blocks holding up AND pocket presence of the Qb. Quite recently I posted about the PBWR (pass block win rate) stat. It tries to eliminate the variable of a qb holding the ball, and/or not evading the rush. I'll look it up and post it again.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 11:46:17 AM)

Poor us



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 11:49:20 AM)

#22 isn't great but also isn't dead last by any means. I should have mentioned PBWR is when the QB has 2.5 seconds to throw or better.

Team pass block win rate
1. Kansas City Chiefs, 75%
2. Chicago Bears, 68%
3. Cleveland Browns, 68%
4. Buffalo Bills, 67%
5. Green Bay Packers, 66%
6. Baltimore Ravens, 66%
7. Pittsburgh Steelers, 65%
8. Seattle Seahawks, 63%
9. Denver Broncos, 62%
10. Las Vegas Raiders, 62%
11. Carolina Panthers, 62%
12. Philadelphia Eagles, 62%
13. Los Angeles Rams, 61%
14. Arizona Cardinals, 61%
15. New England Patriots, 61%
16. New Orleans Saints, 60%
17. Houston Texans, 60%
18. Detroit Lions, 60%
19. Atlanta Falcons, 59%
20. San Francisco 49ers, 59%
21. New York Jets, 57%
22. Minnesota Vikings, 57%
23. Los Angeles Chargers, 57%
24. Miami Dolphins, 55%
25. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 55%
26. Tennessee Titans, 54%
27. Washington Commanders, 53%
28. Dallas Cowboys, 53%
29. New York Giants, 52%
30. Cincinnati Bengals, 50%
31. Jacksonville Jaguars, 49%
32. Indianapolis Colts, 49%



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 1:05:30 PM)

National NFL Analyst DESTROYS Kirk Cousins on MN Radio

Just when we finally started to get over the Vikings disappointing loss to the Giants in the Wild Card round of the playoffs, leave it to a lauded national NFL analyst to hop on our local airwaves and pick at the scab, opening the wound once again.

Joining Paul Allen Wednesday morning on KFAN 100.3 FM in the Twin Cities and on iHeartRadio, Mike Florio from ProFootballTalk.com and NBC sports didn’t hold back on his criticisms towards the Vikings starting quarterback Kirk Cousins.

Florio started making comparisons by highlighting the teams and the quarterbacks that are still in the mix for the Conference Finals round of the playoffs.

“Joe Burrow is the anti-Kirk Cousins,” Florio stated. “Joe Burrow is the guy who, like Kirk, will have a great season…but when the lights get bright, you’ve got one game, and your whole season is riding on it. Do you crumble, or do you rise? Joe burrow rises, Kirk Crumbles…”

Florio, obviously referencing the Vikings QB’s struggles down the stretch of the final playoff game for Minnesota, wasn’t done yet, either.

“You don’t know whether a guy has that makeup and can do it at the NFL level until he gets to the NFL level…Tom Brady did it as the 199th pick, Joe Burrow did it as the #1 pick…Kirk doesn’t have it. You can take your rose-colored glasses and shove them up your butt. Kirk doesn’t have it.”

Banking on a career of historical evidence for Cousins’ struggles in primetime and in the playoffs, like many of us, Mike was really hung up on the final play of the game for the Vikings offense. Remember, that was the 3-yard dump down pass to T.J. Hockenson when the team was facing a 4th and 8 scenario. Naturally, the play came up short, and the season came to a screeching halt earlier than planned.

“The was THE play,” Florio exclaimed, loudly arguing against PA’s take that we can’t summarize the season by the final play. “That’s the season. That’s the incubator. That’s the test. That’s the accelerator…there are moments, there are opportunities, and they are fleeting…You wait all your life for that moment. When that moment arrives, what do you do…You either are that guy, or you aren’t that guy…Joe Burrow does it. Kirk Cousins doesn’t.”

Slightly taken aback, Allen took the opportunity, tongue firmly planted inside his cheek, to apologize to the audience, saying that he wanted to “wholeheartedly apologize to MN Vikings fans for the verbal macabre potentially ruining your days today” after Florio barnstormed the program.

https://vikingsterritory.com/2023/general-news/national-nfl-analyst



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 1:43:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Our most immediate need is defense at most all positions.
Ol needs a couple inside guys as well.


Our most strategic need is a QB who can deliver.

Out of 8 billion people on the planet there are about 4 of those - and they're tied up right now


One of the four is not Kirk Cousins, hence the strategic need. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I am all in on Trey Lance if the cost is true.... .I don't agree on Kirk not delivering.

Playoffs:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

There really are only a few clutch QBs in the NFL right now.....Brady, Burrow, and Mahomes. The rest aren't there--if you really are talking about delivering.

The discussion was on NFL Radio of how Lamar and Hurts really struggled in the playoffs last year and Burrow was so so last year but last week he turned it on and Allen somewhat regressed.

They also commented that Purdy will finally face a defense that will give him fits and Hurts will have to prove the same.

Then you dont understand the distinction between playing well and playing well enough to win a game. Or the difference between regular season games and playoffs.

Try giving him credit for his strengths but also recognizing the deficiencies. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Or we could just talk about his career accomplishments but that would mask his overall good production

We could do a helluva lot worse than Cousins. He can absolutely get you a playoff win. A playoff run? Very very unlikely. Too much rattle in him, not enough spontineity to overcome big game pressure.


They did go deeper and even considered how teams are built. The 4 teams in are the best built teams.....NFL Radio talked about it. In Fact they said Philly and SF might be the best built of the 4.....so Hurts and Purdy will be under a microscope. Ignoring team defeciencies and against Kirk seemed easier after a playoff loss (even though ESPN QBR showed he performed well).


Stop with the microscope crap which you keep bringing up just because you heard it.

One QB has had just two full seasons at the helm, the other around just eight games for his career.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 1:45:38 PM)

Maybe someone can reproduce Kurt's quote about that play ?

I was hoping Kurt would saying something like he wished he had instead led Osborn with a pass there, or thrown a prayer up to JJ, or something else.

What I read, Kirk said something like it wasn't a big deal, it was just one play, that he at least got the ball out without getting sacked. Is that correct, or am I not remembering it correctly ?



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 1:46:21 PM)

Jesus if Hurts and Purdy are "under a microscope" to see how they fare against top defenses, what does that say about 11 year vet Cousins against a lesser defense?

For the latter.. he folded like a cheap suit with the season on the line.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 1:49:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

#22 isn't great but also isn't dead last by any means. I should have mentioned PBWR is when the QB has 2.5 seconds to throw or better.

Team pass block win rate
1. Kansas City Chiefs, 75%
2. Chicago Bears, 68%
3. Cleveland Browns, 68%
4. Buffalo Bills, 67%
5. Green Bay Packers, 66%
6. Baltimore Ravens, 66%
7. Pittsburgh Steelers, 65%
8. Seattle Seahawks, 63%
9. Denver Broncos, 62%
10. Las Vegas Raiders, 62%
11. Carolina Panthers, 62%
12. Philadelphia Eagles, 62%
13. Los Angeles Rams, 61%
14. Arizona Cardinals, 61%
15. New England Patriots, 61%
16. New Orleans Saints, 60%
17. Houston Texans, 60%
18. Detroit Lions, 60%
19. Atlanta Falcons, 59%
20. San Francisco 49ers, 59%
21. New York Jets, 57%
22. Minnesota Vikings, 57%
23. Los Angeles Chargers, 57%
24. Miami Dolphins, 55%
25. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 55%
26. Tennessee Titans, 54%
27. Washington Commanders, 53%
28. Dallas Cowboys, 53%
29. New York Giants, 52%
30. Cincinnati Bengals, 50%
31. Jacksonville Jaguars, 49%
32. Indianapolis Colts, 49%


I see mobile QBs at the top of that list, which is one of the problem areas you alluded to about KC.



David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 1:59:46 PM)

Nick Korte of Over the Cap has put together his projection of the Compensatory Draft Picks that he believes will be given out for the 2023 Draft, and he has the Vikings receiving one extra pick. Earlier projections had them receiving two selections, but that has been reduced.

According to Korte’s projections, the Vikings will receive an extra fifth-round pick in the upcoming draft for the loss of tight end Tyler Conklin, who had a pretty good season for the New York Jets.



Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 2:07:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Our most immediate need is defense at most all positions.
Ol needs a couple inside guys as well.


Our most strategic need is a QB who can deliver.

Out of 8 billion people on the planet there are about 4 of those - and they're tied up right now


One of the four is not Kirk Cousins, hence the strategic need. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I am all in on Trey Lance if the cost is true.... .I don't agree on Kirk not delivering.

Playoffs:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

There really are only a few clutch QBs in the NFL right now.....Brady, Burrow, and Mahomes. The rest aren't there--if you really are talking about delivering.

The discussion was on NFL Radio of how Lamar and Hurts really struggled in the playoffs last year and Burrow was so so last year but last week he turned it on and Allen somewhat regressed.

They also commented that Purdy will finally face a defense that will give him fits and Hurts will have to prove the same.

Then you dont understand the distinction between playing well and playing well enough to win a game. Or the difference between regular season games and playoffs.

Try giving him credit for his strengths but also recognizing the deficiencies. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Or we could just talk about his career accomplishments but that would mask his overall good production

We could do a helluva lot worse than Cousins. He can absolutely get you a playoff win. A playoff run? Very very unlikely. Too much rattle in him, not enough spontineity to overcome big game pressure.


They did go deeper and even considered how teams are built. The 4 teams in are the best built teams.....NFL Radio talked about it. In Fact they said Philly and SF might be the best built of the 4.....so Hurts and Purdy will be under a microscope. Ignoring team defeciencies and against Kirk seemed easier after a playoff loss (even though ESPN QBR showed he performed well).

The ESPN QBR showed he played well until it mattered most. Do you disagree with that?

As far as the radio commentary, its their job to escalate the playoff conversation into life and death showdowns of biblical proportion. I'm sure last year they were pushing the Rams as a stone cold dynasty. How far did that go?

Ignoring team deficiencies? Like Burrows' injury-plagued OL last year and Mahomes' the year before?

All QBs face obstacles and play on teams that have deficiencies. Yes there are gradations of that but at some point, say, after 11 seasons playing on different teams with different coaches in different situations, you have to be able step back and say this is what he does well and this is what he does not so well.

I have a feeling that 2022s 13-4 team is going to be the zenith of Cousin's Vikings career. When we look back in future years. On paper, it sure doesn't look like it will be 2023 or beyond without some kind of deus ex machina intervention.

What a way to end your best chance. Just not who I want moving forward.



David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 2:40:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

#22 isn't great but also isn't dead last by any means. I should have mentioned PBWR is when the QB has 2.5 seconds to throw or better.

Team pass block win rate
1. Kansas City Chiefs, 75%
2. Chicago Bears, 68%
3. Cleveland Browns, 68%
4. Buffalo Bills, 67%
5. Green Bay Packers, 66%
6. Baltimore Ravens, 66%
7. Pittsburgh Steelers, 65%
8. Seattle Seahawks, 63%
9. Denver Broncos, 62%
10. Las Vegas Raiders, 62%
11. Carolina Panthers, 62%
12. Philadelphia Eagles, 62%
13. Los Angeles Rams, 61%
14. Arizona Cardinals, 61%
15. New England Patriots, 61%
16. New Orleans Saints, 60%
17. Houston Texans, 60%
18. Detroit Lions, 60%
19. Atlanta Falcons, 59%
20. San Francisco 49ers, 59%
21. New York Jets, 57%
22. Minnesota Vikings, 57%
23. Los Angeles Chargers, 57%
24. Miami Dolphins, 55%
25. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 55%
26. Tennessee Titans, 54%
27. Washington Commanders, 53%
28. Dallas Cowboys, 53%
29. New York Giants, 52%
30. Cincinnati Bengals, 50%
31. Jacksonville Jaguars, 49%
32. Indianapolis Colts, 49%


I see mobile QBs at the top of that list, which is one of the problem areas you alluded to about KC.


The stat is supposed to ignore a QB's mobility. It's supposed to track how many seconds the QB has to throw it or has to move. The fact that a mobile QB can avoid the pressure is irrelevant. It tracks the time until the point that the QB has to move - whether he takes a sack or a hit or avoids it isn't supposed to matter.



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 4:19:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Our most immediate need is defense at most all positions.
Ol needs a couple inside guys as well.


Our most strategic need is a QB who can deliver.

Out of 8 billion people on the planet there are about 4 of those - and they're tied up right now


One of the four is not Kirk Cousins, hence the strategic need. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?


I am all in on Trey Lance if the cost is true.... .I don't agree on Kirk not delivering.

Playoffs:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

There really are only a few clutch QBs in the NFL right now.....Brady, Burrow, and Mahomes. The rest aren't there--if you really are talking about delivering.

The discussion was on NFL Radio of how Lamar and Hurts really struggled in the playoffs last year and Burrow was so so last year but last week he turned it on and Allen somewhat regressed.

They also commented that Purdy will finally face a defense that will give him fits and Hurts will have to prove the same.

Then you dont understand the distinction between playing well and playing well enough to win a game. Or the difference between regular season games and playoffs.

Try giving him credit for his strengths but also recognizing the deficiencies. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Or we could just talk about his career accomplishments but that would mask his overall good production

We could do a helluva lot worse than Cousins. He can absolutely get you a playoff win. A playoff run? Very very unlikely. Too much rattle in him, not enough spontineity to overcome big game pressure.


They did go deeper and even considered how teams are built. The 4 teams in are the best built teams.....NFL Radio talked about it. In Fact they said Philly and SF might be the best built of the 4.....so Hurts and Purdy will be under a microscope. Ignoring team defeciencies and against Kirk seemed easier after a playoff loss (even though ESPN QBR showed he performed well).

The ESPN QBR showed he played well until it mattered most. Do you disagree with that?

As far as the radio commentary, its their job to escalate the playoff conversation into life and death showdowns of biblical proportion. I'm sure last year they were pushing the Rams as a stone cold dynasty. How far did that go?

Ignoring team deficiencies? Like Burrows' injury-plagued OL last year and Mahomes' the year before?

All QBs face obstacles and play on teams that have deficiencies. Yes there are gradations of that but at some point, say, after 11 seasons playing on different teams with different coaches in different situations, you have to be able step back and say this is what he does well and this is what he does not so well.

I have a feeling that 2022s 13-4 team is going to be the zenith of Cousin's Vikings career. When we look back in future years. On paper, it sure doesn't look like it will be 2023 or beyond without some kind of deus ex machina intervention.

What a way to end your best chance. Just not who I want moving forward.


13-4 a zenith? No way.

This was, is, and always will be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlsFltOgL-U



Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 4:19:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

#22 isn't great but also isn't dead last by any means. I should have mentioned PBWR is when the QB has 2.5 seconds to throw or better.

Team pass block win rate
1. Kansas City Chiefs, 75%
2. Chicago Bears, 68%
3. Cleveland Browns, 68%
4. Buffalo Bills, 67%
5. Green Bay Packers, 66%
6. Baltimore Ravens, 66%
7. Pittsburgh Steelers, 65%
8. Seattle Seahawks, 63%
9. Denver Broncos, 62%
10. Las Vegas Raiders, 62%
11. Carolina Panthers, 62%
12. Philadelphia Eagles, 62%
13. Los Angeles Rams, 61%
14. Arizona Cardinals, 61%
15. New England Patriots, 61%
16. New Orleans Saints, 60%
17. Houston Texans, 60%
18. Detroit Lions, 60%
19. Atlanta Falcons, 59%
20. San Francisco 49ers, 59%
21. New York Jets, 57%
22. Minnesota Vikings, 57%
23. Los Angeles Chargers, 57%
24. Miami Dolphins, 55%
25. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 55%
26. Tennessee Titans, 54%
27. Washington Commanders, 53%
28. Dallas Cowboys, 53%
29. New York Giants, 52%
30. Cincinnati Bengals, 50%
31. Jacksonville Jaguars, 49%
32. Indianapolis Colts, 49%


I see mobile QBs at the top of that list, which is one of the problem areas you alluded to about KC.


The stat is supposed to ignore a QB's mobility. It's supposed to track how many seconds the QB has to throw it or has to move. The fact that a mobile QB can avoid the pressure is irrelevant. It tracks the time until the point that the QB has to move - whether he takes a sack or a hit or avoids it isn't supposed to matter.


Got it.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 7:29:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Our 2 starting guards finished 1st and 3rd in pressures allowed.

Guessing Bradbury wasn't far behind had he played all 17 games.

This futility with the IOL is just embarrassing to watch. I'm no Cousins fan but he needs a pocket to throw from.



ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/27/2023 11:11:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Throw the Fing ball you pussy.


I dont know, man. Im not sure making decisions you disagree with qualify KC as a pussy.

He lives in a world you can't even begin to imagine.


no, but kirk cousins being a pussy, qualify kc as a pussy....



Brad H -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 7:02:11 AM)

All I can say is this. There has never been a better time to trade Kirk Cousins. His trade value will never get higher.

Having said that, it's still a tough sell and negotiation. We can only hope there is one sucker out there.



Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 7:54:31 AM)

.



marty -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 10:43:15 AM)

I think there would be a few suckers for Cousins, if Brady and Rodgers weren't available.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 11:18:10 AM)

Brady looked like he was 100 years old this season.

Rodgers trade would cost GB a 40ml dead cap hit. Barring restructure he's due 60ml this upcoming season. No one is giving up much to take on that salary. not sure how Gutenkuntz still has a job.

GB also is saddled with the decision on J Love 5th year option which is in the neighborhood of 20ml



Steve Lentz -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 12:13:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Our 2 starting guards finished 1st and 3rd in pressures allowed.

Guessing Bradbury wasn't far behind had he played all 17 games.

This futility with the IOL is just embarrassing to watch. I'm no Cousins fan but he needs a pocket to throw from.


YES!!!!!



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 12:29:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Our 2 starting guards finished 1st and 3rd in pressures allowed.

Guessing Bradbury wasn't far behind had he played all 17 games.

This futility with the IOL is just embarrassing to watch. I'm no Cousins fan but he needs a pocket to throw from.


YES!!!!!


Most resources should be directed toward the defense but if we had a superior oline we could run the ball more consistently and keep our defense off the field. Our inability to get one yard and constant pressure up the middle made it really hard to take this offense seriously. Take away Jefferson this was a bottom feeder offense.



joejitsu -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 12:36:09 PM)

Steve Avila could be a difference maker on our oline. He’s a big center, but he can also play rg and rt. He’d be a big upgrade for us. But, the defense has so many holes, we should focus on getting better on that side of the ball.



Steve Lentz -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 1:38:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

Steve Avila could be a difference maker on our oline. He’s a big center, but he can also play rg and rt. He’d be a big upgrade for us. But, the defense has so many holes, we should focus on getting better on that side of the ball.

Defense is the priority, just hope we can mix in a couple interior OL guys.



Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (1/28/2023 2:59:13 PM)

https://twitter.com/nickolsonnfl/status/1605021841474539521

Not sure if this worked but a great video of Darrisaw footage pummeling everyone



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