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Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/3/2023 3:35:55 PM)
The whole key all year has been TO differential. We are 8th in DVOA now.

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/3/2023 3:39:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro If you go off PFF scores. Patrick Jones has no business being on the 53 man roster. Time to give Villain some run. Jones is a poor man's Wonnum. Actually Carter and Roy aree the ones that should get run.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/3/2023 4:28:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro If you go off PFF scores. Patrick Jones has no business being on the 53 man roster. Time to give Villain some run. Jones is a poor man's Wonnum. Actually Carter and Roy aree the ones that should get run. Poor man's Wonnum, meaning fringe player/practice squad type.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/3/2023 7:48:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro If you go off PFF scores. Patrick Jones has no business being on the 53 man roster. Time to give Villain some run. Jones is a poor man's Wonnum. Actually Carter and Roy aree the ones that should get run. I wasn't aware that Roy was an OLB

Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 9:04:07 AM)
Dustin Baker @DustBaker Vikings Offense Rankings, Thru Week 4: 1st in Passing TDs 1st in Pass Play % 3rd in Passing Yards 3rd in Yards per Play 3rd in Passing First Downs 3rd in 15+ Yard Plays 4th in 3rd Q Pts Scored 4th in QB Pocket Time 6th in TDs 6th in Passer Rating 7th in Yards per Pass 7th in 25+ Yard Plays 9th in Yards 9th in 2nd Q Pts Scored 9th in Fewest Off Penalty Yds 10th in Completion % 10th in Yards per Rush 12th in Offense DVOA 13th in First Downs 13th in Points per Play 13th in 4th Q Pts Scored 14th in Passing DVOA 15th in QB Sacked % 16th in Points 17th in EPA/Play 17th in Dropback EPA/Play 20th in Redzone TD % 20th in Rush DVOA 20th in INT % 21st in 3rd Down Conv % 21st in Rush EPA/Play 23rd in Yards per Point 28th in Rush Yards 29th in Time of Possession 29th in QB Pressures Allowed 32nd in Rush TDs 32nd in Rush Play % 32nd in Rush First Downs 32nd in 1st Q Pts Scored 32nd in QB Hits Allowed 32nd in Turnovers 1:34 AM · Oct 4, 2023

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 9:46:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer Dustin Baker @DustBaker Vikings Offense Rankings, Thru Week 4: 1st in Passing TDs 1st in Pass Play % 3rd in Passing Yards 3rd in Yards per Play 3rd in Passing First Downs 3rd in 15+ Yard Plays 4th in 3rd Q Pts Scored 4th in QB Pocket Time 6th in TDs 6th in Passer Rating 7th in Yards per Pass 7th in 25+ Yard Plays 9th in Yards 9th in 2nd Q Pts Scored 9th in Fewest Off Penalty Yds 10th in Completion % 10th in Yards per Rush 12th in Offense DVOA 13th in First Downs 13th in Points per Play 13th in 4th Q Pts Scored 14th in Passing DVOA 15th in QB Sacked % 16th in Points 17th in EPA/Play 17th in Dropback EPA/Play 20th in Redzone TD % 20th in Rush DVOA 20th in INT % 21st in 3rd Down Conv % 21st in Rush EPA/Play 23rd in Yards per Point 28th in Rush Yards 29th in Time of Possession 29th in QB Pressures Allowed 32nd in Rush TDs 32nd in Rush Play % 32nd in Rush First Downs 32nd in 1st Q Pts Scored 32nd in QB Hits Allowed 32nd in Turnovers 1:34 AM · Oct 4, 2023 Dustin's stats and rankings are highly cherry picked and he won't answer my questions about what sources he pulls them from. Last week he had our O-line ranked 30th in pressure allowed so I asked him to provide his source becuase so many other sources had our O-line ranked in the top 10. I received no reply. Look at this week's rankings. 4th in QB pocket time yet 29th in QB pressures allowed and 32nd in QB hits allowed. That makes no sense. I'll try and get an answer out of him this week.

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 9:51:19 AM)
Someone got an answer. I followed up and asked what his sources are and pointed out the misleading nature of a ranking titled "QB hits allowed" and "QB pressures allowed" that don't account for the amount of time the QB had in the pocket. This is the kind of crap that Kirk-lovers love to throw out to protect their guy. Just post the raw facts and we'll all form our own opinions thank you very much. G6😈 @Goatfor6 · 2h 4th in pocket time, 15th in sack % & 32 in QB hits. Does that mean the ball is being held too long? Dustin Baker @DustBaker Yes.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 11:05:05 AM)
The Kirk-lovers, huh? As opposed to the haters? ;) Id be offended but that'd make me a hypocrite Lots to digest there. So he holds the ball too long - dude ain't afraid of getting whacked, huh? Tough SOB! He's gonna obviously take some hits (32) but only 15 in sacks (avg). I think they need a stat saying how often the hit caused a - play, or it was still +play Yet he's top 10 in some pretty impressive cats. So who gets to decide what we "cherry pick" makes him good QB or a horseshit bad QB? Obviously holding the ball "too" long doesn't stop you from putting up productive numbers - as opposed to only "stat boy" numbers. Now we need 20 stats on how the turnover ratio determines whether you are a successful team or not a successful team. Good stuff - don't take the snark personal

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 11:35:42 AM)
10th in Yards per Rush !!! Wow, not bad for a sloth. Imagine 22 other QBs that haven't gained as many yards as Kirk. ha ha 13 games to go. 3 months+ of football. id like nothing more than a strong finish. a good showing v KC would be a start - i mean if Det and NYJ can put on a show

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 11:43:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J 10th in Yards per Rush !!! Wow, not bad for a sloth. Imagine 22 other QBs that haven't gained as many yards as Kirk. ha ha 13 games to go. 3 months+ of football. id like nothing more than a strong finish. a good showing v KC would be a start - i mean if Det and NYJ can put on a show Umm...Those are team stats. I doubt Kirk's 17 yards on 5 carries is positively affecting that number...

David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 12:17:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The Kirk-lovers, huh? As opposed to the haters? ;) Id be offended but that'd make me a hypocrite Lots to digest there. So he holds the ball too long - dude ain't afraid of getting whacked, huh? Tough SOB! He's gonna obviously take some hits (32) but only 15 in sacks (avg). I think they need a stat saying how often the hit caused a - play, or it was still +play Yet he's top 10 in some pretty impressive cats. So who gets to decide what we "cherry pick" makes him good QB or a horseshit bad QB? Obviously holding the ball "too" long doesn't stop you from putting up productive numbers - as opposed to only "stat boy" numbers. Now we need 20 stats on how the turnover ratio determines whether you are a successful team or not a successful team. Good stuff - don't take the snark personal We can determine if he holds the ball too long by going through each play. My point is that posting rankings without sources or even disclaimers on what constitutes a "pressure allowed" is in the ballpark of misinformation. Oh, and I never take the snark personally. We should be allowed to express our opinions and feelings freely.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 12:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J 10th in Yards per Rush !!! Wow, not bad for a sloth. Imagine 22 other QBs that haven't gained as many yards as Kirk. ha ha 13 games to go. 3 months+ of football. id like nothing more than a strong finish. a good showing v KC would be a start - i mean if Det and NYJ can put on a show Umm...Those are team stats. I doubt Kirk's 17 yards on 5 carries is positively affecting that number... Oh! ha ha, I thought that was a QB stat - that is stretching things a little for sure

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 12:34:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The Kirk-lovers, huh? As opposed to the haters? ;) Id be offended but that'd make me a hypocrite Lots to digest there. So he holds the ball too long - dude ain't afraid of getting whacked, huh? Tough SOB! He's gonna obviously take some hits (32) but only 15 in sacks (avg). I think they need a stat saying how often the hit caused a - play, or it was still +play Yet he's top 10 in some pretty impressive cats. So who gets to decide what we "cherry pick" makes him good QB or a horseshit bad QB? Obviously holding the ball "too" long doesn't stop you from putting up productive numbers - as opposed to only "stat boy" numbers. Now we need 20 stats on how the turnover ratio determines whether you are a successful team or not a successful team. Good stuff - don't take the snark personal We can determine if he holds the ball too long by going through each play. My point is that posting rankings without sources or even disclaimers on what constitutes a "pressure allowed" is in the ballpark of misinformation. Oh, and I never take the snark personally. We should be allowed to express our opinions and feelings freely. Seems a little subjective and bias by just going by each play. If you're a hater you remember some longer than others - same for the lovers. I'm big on posting sources. But some of the stats in 1-10, are quite impressive and one would think belong to a winning team, are common knowledge. As far as what's a pressure and what isn't - shrug - obviously matter to some a lot more than others, I guess

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 12:49:46 PM)
per a previous post: 1st in Passing TDs 1st in Pass Play % 3rd in Passing Yards 3rd in Yards per Play 3rd in Passing First Downs 3rd in 15+ Yard Plays 4th in 3rd Q Pts Scored 4th in QB Pocket Time 6th in TDs 6th in Passer Rating 7th in Yards per Pass 7th in 25+ Yard Plays 9th in Yards 9th in 2nd Q Pts Scored 9th in Fewest Off Penalty Yds 10th in Completion %

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/4/2023 7:43:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The Kirk-lovers, huh? As opposed to the haters? ;) Id be offended but that'd make me a hypocrite Lots to digest there. So he holds the ball too long - dude ain't afraid of getting whacked, huh? Tough SOB! He's gonna obviously take some hits (32) but only 15 in sacks (avg). I think they need a stat saying how often the hit caused a - play, or it was still +play Yet he's top 10 in some pretty impressive cats. So who gets to decide what we "cherry pick" makes him good QB or a horseshit bad QB? Obviously holding the ball "too" long doesn't stop you from putting up productive numbers - as opposed to only "stat boy" numbers. Now we need 20 stats on how the turnover ratio determines whether you are a successful team or not a successful team. Good stuff - don't take the snark personal Nobody should dispute Cousins' toughness and durability. Its great to have a QB that doesn't flinch when he's about to get whacked. In fact, its more of a fish look than a flinch. And then, after a big whacking, he pops right up for the next big whacking. And, because he's about as sharp as a marble, even after 11+ seasons of compounded whackings, he still isn't smart enough to not hold onto the ball too long. It makes me wonder about his brain health down the road which is no joke. And you know, I'm talking like week five.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 3:15:37 AM)
. from the ny times.... 17. Minnesota Vikings (1-3) (Last week: 25) Sunday: Beat Carolina Panthers 21-13 The league’s third-most prolific passing offense (287.3 passing yards per game) finally got its first victory Sunday. Kirk Cousins leads the league in touchdown passes (11), but Sunday’s most chaotic play may have come when he threw a touchdown to the Panthers and then sprinted almost the length of the field only to get obliterated by a block.

Ricky J -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 8:57:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . from the ny times.... 17. Minnesota Vikings (1-3) (Last week: 25) Sunday: Beat Carolina Panthers 21-13 The league’s third-most prolific passing offense (287.3 passing yards per game) finally got its first victory Sunday. Kirk Cousins leads the league in touchdown passes (11), but Sunday’s most chaotic play may have come when he threw a touchdown to the Panthers and then sprinted almost the length of the field only to get obliterated by a block. Bet many had no idea Kirk could run so fast ;) 17 got rolled just as bad by the same dude

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 11:12:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David F. quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J The Kirk-lovers, huh? As opposed to the haters? ;) Id be offended but that'd make me a hypocrite Lots to digest there. So he holds the ball too long - dude ain't afraid of getting whacked, huh? Tough SOB! He's gonna obviously take some hits (32) but only 15 in sacks (avg). I think they need a stat saying how often the hit caused a - play, or it was still +play Yet he's top 10 in some pretty impressive cats. So who gets to decide what we "cherry pick" makes him good QB or a horseshit bad QB? Obviously holding the ball "too" long doesn't stop you from putting up productive numbers - as opposed to only "stat boy" numbers. Now we need 20 stats on how the turnover ratio determines whether you are a successful team or not a successful team. Good stuff - don't take the snark personal We can determine if he holds the ball too long by going through each play. My point is that posting rankings without sources or even disclaimers on what constitutes a "pressure allowed" is in the ballpark of misinformation. Oh, and I never take the snark personally. We should be allowed to express our opinions and feelings freely. I think Cousins is told to or wants to push the ball downfield. That is why he holds on to ball so long which leads to the high pressure rate. Maybe we need more quick slants or just check down and hope your guy can make a guy or two miss. Also, Cousins has had more than a few double clutch moments where he has got the ball out late or behind a receiver. Is he not trusting what he sees? Are DLineman getting arms up disrupting his view? He needs to just wing it this weekend. Nothing to lose. KC is being picked to kill us.

Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 11:16:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricky J quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer . from the ny times.... 17. Minnesota Vikings (1-3) (Last week: 25) Sunday: Beat Carolina Panthers 21-13 The league’s third-most prolific passing offense (287.3 passing yards per game) finally got its first victory Sunday. Kirk Cousins leads the league in touchdown passes (11), but Sunday’s most chaotic play may have come when he threw a touchdown to the Panthers and then sprinted almost the length of the field only to get obliterated by a block. Bet many had no idea Kirk could run so fast ;) 17 got rolled just as bad by the same dude Did anyone else notice how Bryce Young just gave up on Wonnum scoop and score? He easily catches him if he kicks it down. It was lucky that we didn't face Dalton. Blitzes wouldn't have phased him and he could have pushed the ball downfield against our CBs.

Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 12:08:56 PM)
Did anyone else notice how Bryce Young just gave up on Wonnum scoop and score? He easily catches him if he kicks it down. He probably saw what happened to Cousins on that pick six

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 1:00:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro Did anyone else notice how Bryce Young just gave up on Wonnum scoop and score? He easily catches him if he kicks it down. He probably saw what happened to Cousins on that pick six or emulating his hero Cam Newton?

twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 1:05:21 PM)
The Vikes have signed former Gophers QB Tanner Morgan. Awesome!

Trekgeekscott -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 1:12:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan The Vikes have signed former Gophers QB Tanner Morgan. Awesome! OK. Why?

fmaltes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 2:06:20 PM)
One thing that we hear on this forum repeatedly is that the Vikings need to "tear it down" and "reboot" to get higher draft picks. Yet, when one looks at the top teams in the league, NONE of them did this. Also, historically, in the NFL at least, this has not been the approach of Super Bowl teams. Drafting well, no matter what your spot, is critical. Besides drafting talented players, drafting players that fit your offensive/defensive schemes is also essential. Unfortunately, I think the last two drafts we drafted less talented players and players that may not fit our schemes. Having a coaching staff and organization that can develop players and put them in the best place to succeed is also critical. A big concern to me is the horrible first draft of the GM. The second draft may also be weak. The Vikings simply have a less talented team this year than last year. I personally thought there were more talented players on the board each time after the first pick this year. On Kirk Cousins, There were no realistic replacements that were actually better than him the last two years. That changes this next year with the draft. The Vikings can probably get a very good QB prospect in the 1st round. I would still keep Kirk for one more year even drafting a new QB. For now, the best thing the Vikings can do this year is double-down on an aggressive offense and hope the defense can be an effective speed bump. I actually think they may win the Kansas City game if they cut out the turnovers

jbusse -> RE: General Vikes Talk (10/5/2023 2:10:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott quote: ORIGINAL: twinsfan The Vikes have signed former Gophers QB Tanner Morgan. Awesome! OK. Why? Mitch Leidner wasn't available.

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