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David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 1:21:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

25M? 30?

2 years at 25 and use the first pick on the best available QB. I'd be perfectly happy with that although I get the angst from some about bringing him back at anything.


It would be great to sit the new QB for one year. Would Kirk even be ready to start week one of 2024?




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 1:25:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

25M? 30?

2 years at 25 and use the first pick on the best available QB. I'd be perfectly happy with that although I get the angst from some about bringing him back at anything.


It would be great to sit the new QB for one year. Would Kirk even be ready to start week one of 2024?


I really don't want to be the team that finds out.

Also what does Cousins with even less mobility look like? Because even if he's ready, that's a very likely possibility.




David F. -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 1:31:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

25M? 30?

2 years at 25 and use the first pick on the best available QB. I'd be perfectly happy with that although I get the angst from some about bringing him back at anything.


It would be great to sit the new QB for one year. Would Kirk even be ready to start week one of 2024?


I really don't want to be the team that finds out.

Also what does Cousins with even less mobility look like? Because even if he's ready, that's a very likely possibility.


I was reading some comments from a doctor that seemed to know about achillies injuries. He says the mobility shouldn't be affected but there would be concern about Kirk losing some of his effectiveness in driving the ball - so bascially he could lose velocity.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 1:33:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

25M? 30?

2 years at 25 and use the first pick on the best available QB. I'd be perfectly happy with that although I get the angst from some about bringing him back at anything.


It would be great to sit the new QB for one year. Would Kirk even be ready to start week one of 2024?


I really don't want to be the team that finds out.

Also what does Cousins with even less mobility look like? Because even if he's ready, that's a very likely possibility.


I was reading some comments from a doctor that seemed to know about achillies injuries. He says the mobility shouldn't be affected but there would be concern about Kirk losing some of his effectiveness in driving the ball - so bascially he could lose velocity.


That's not good as it appears he's already lost some. Felt like the ball was taking an extra beat to get there this year and that he wasn't as accurate in his ball placement as he has been in the past - likely due to overthrowing to compensate.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 1:47:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

25M? 30?

2 years at 25 and use the first pick on the best available QB. I'd be perfectly happy with that although I get the angst from some about bringing him back at anything.


It would be great to sit the new QB for one year. Would Kirk even be ready to start week one of 2024?



kirk is going to want at least two years guaranteed, most likely three...with a no-trade cause, and it's going to be around $35+mm/yr....

kirk's agent is loving what the vikings are going through right now - playing all these broken quarterbacks and o'connell struggling to design an offensive scheme around them..."everything worked fine with my guy" - and he looks at $35mm/yr as a discount.....




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 2:11:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

25M? 30?

2 years at 25 and use the first pick on the best available QB. I'd be perfectly happy with that although I get the angst from some about bringing him back at anything.


It would be great to sit the new QB for one year. Would Kirk even be ready to start week one of 2024?



kirk is going to want at least two years guaranteed, most likely three...with a no-trade cause, and it's going to be around $35+mm/yr....

kirk's agent is loving what the vikings are going through right now - playing all these broken quarterbacks and o'connell struggling to design an offensive scheme around them..."everything worked fine with my guy" - and he looks at $35mm/yr as a discount.....


100%. No way he takes a 1 year deal. If he looks bad coming off the injury, he's tanked any future value. He's going to want to be paid up front for the 2025 season (and probably the next).




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 2:14:34 PM)

Currently, Spotrac.com has Cousins' market value being worth an average annual salary of $39.6 million. That seems a little high for an older quarterback coming off an Achilles injury, so PFF's recent contract projection for Cousins in 2024 of two years for $60 million seems a little more believable.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 2:15:46 PM)

“I would love to be back in Minnesota. Hopefully, we can make that happen,” Cousins said on “The Adam Schefter Podcast” on December 18. “Tends to be more of a February, March conversation. And this is more right now about just finishing the football season, and trying to help us get to the playoffs and then stay in the playoffs.”

Brad Spielberger of Pro Football Focus projects Cousins’ next contract to resemble that of Philip Rivers in 2020, or, roughly 12.6% of the salary cap which was $198.2 million at that time, per Spotrac.

For Cousins, under a salary cap expected to exceed $240 million, Spielberger estimates Cousins’ deal could come in around $60 million over two years with $37.5 million in guaranteed money.

That $30 million annual salary works out to $12.5% of the projected cap in 2024.

The next question is should the Vikings be willing to invest that kind of capital into a quarterback who will be 36 years old by the start of next season and is coming off a major injury?

Cousins listed off a whole host of athletes (and other public figures and friends) who have overcome Achilles injuries. He notes that many – including teammates Cam Akers and Jordan Hicks, who has torn both of his Achilles before – came back as good if not better than before.

“I do believe there’s, probably, my best football still up ahead of me. But I gotta go prove that with the way I heal up and then with the way I play up ahead,” Cousins said. “The game is so much mental, and it’s so much on past experiences.”

“I’ve heard Tom Brady comment, … ‘I’ve spent my whole life in football to get to this point where I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times,'” Cousins said. “It’d be a shame if I’m the best version of myself but my arm can no longer do it. … Because the mental side of it, and even the emotional, is the best it’s ever been.”

Cousins again pointed to the “experience factor” and the reps that he has under his belt.

https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-vikings/cousins-future-contract-injury-brady-rodgers/




Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 2:31:37 PM)

As a fan, my experience factor is that KFC is a choking loser who sometimes makes good plays..

The ratio of good to questionable plays, audibles and escapability, under pressure leans heavily into the “ you suck” category.

If we go back over his tenure… I’d be willing to bet, “ delay of game, #8 “ penalty calls average 2 per game…

I can’t stand watching him doing line checks and garbage babble at 7 seconds or less on the play clock..

I have seen multiple plays where the snap comes right at ZERO, or shortly after that umpires have let slide..

I long for the seasons that he is not even on the roster.. going forward.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 2:43:59 PM)

I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times


too bad he hasn't seen clocking it that many times.....




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 4:37:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

25M? 30?

2 years at 25 and use the first pick on the best available QB. I'd be perfectly happy with that although I get the angst from some about bringing him back at anything.


It would be great to sit the new QB for one year. Would Kirk even be ready to start week one of 2024?



kirk is going to want at least two years guaranteed, most likely three...with a no-trade cause, and it's going to be around $35+mm/yr....

kirk's agent is loving what the vikings are going through right now - playing all these broken quarterbacks and o'connell struggling to design an offensive scheme around them..."everything worked fine with my guy" - and he looks at $35mm/yr as a discount.....


The Vikings don't have to blink.

It's understandable a team shouldn't perform as well with a backup. Yet the Vikings are scoring a bit over 19 points vs a bit short of 22 points with Cousins and we have the same winning percentage.

At the end of the day, if they can't afford him and want to move to a QB on a rookie pay scale, that's all they have to say.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 4:42:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times


too bad he hasn't seen clocking it that many times.....


Hey, at least he knows how to throw short of the sticks to end the season.

Simply put, he sounds like a desperate 12 year veteran coming off a major injury without a contract.




Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 4:48:59 PM)

Sure he'd love to return:

The HC/OC lets him do what he wants.

The Minnesota media are lightweight, team-first puppets.

Minnesota has a great WR, a very good rookie WR, and a very good TE.

Minnesota routinely hands tens of millions to him like its Monopoly money run amuck.

YES, OF COURSE HE WANTS TO GO BACK TO THE HOG TROUGH.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 4:50:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times
too bad he hasn't seen clocking it that many times.....

Hey, at least he knows how to throw short of the sticks to end the season.
Simply put, he sounds like a desperate 12 year veteran coming off a major injury without a contract.


I will call it the Flacco affect; it maybe the opposite (teams wanting him)....the limit or holdup is always the salary. MN isn't the only team that wanted him before--he will have suitors again.

Flacco gets 70k a win in addition to his salary---put in those kind of stipulations and I wouldn't mind paying kirk over 30 million if and only if he wins the super bowl.




Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/20/2023 5:05:57 PM)

Who in hells name , besides KFC himself, his “Stan’s”, and his HC/Fatal Attraction/ Misery/ man rush coach, wants this career do nothing back for any reason at any amount?

kFC is the definition of mediocre AND damaged ( bad) goods..

FFS for once do something smart and cut the fuquing snapping turtle off the set line and replace the damn game plan.




JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2023 12:46:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times
too bad he hasn't seen clocking it that many times.....

Hey, at least he knows how to throw short of the sticks to end the season.
Simply put, he sounds like a desperate 12 year veteran coming off a major injury without a contract.


I will call it the Flacco affect; it maybe the opposite (teams wanting him)....the limit or holdup is always the salary. MN isn't the only team that wanted him before--he will have suitors again.

Flacco gets 70k a win in addition to his salary---put in those kind of stipulations and I wouldn't mind paying kirk over 30 million if and only if he wins the super bowl.


Remember that one time when Flacco won a Super Bowl, and had arguably the best postseason a QB has ever had?




JT2 -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2023 1:25:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

“I would love to be back in Minnesota. Hopefully, we can make that happen,” Cousins said on “The Adam Schefter Podcast” on December 18. “Tends to be more of a February, March conversation. And this is more right now about just finishing the football season, and trying to help us get to the playoffs and then stay in the playoffs.”

Brad Spielberger of Pro Football Focus projects Cousins’ next contract to resemble that of Philip Rivers in 2020, or, roughly 12.6% of the salary cap which was $198.2 million at that time, per Spotrac.

For Cousins, under a salary cap expected to exceed $240 million, Spielberger estimates Cousins’ deal could come in around $60 million over two years with $37.5 million in guaranteed money.

That $30 million annual salary works out to $12.5% of the projected cap in 2024.

The next question is should the Vikings be willing to invest that kind of capital into a quarterback who will be 36 years old by the start of next season and is coming off a major injury?

Cousins listed off a whole host of athletes (and other public figures and friends) who have overcome Achilles injuries. He notes that many – including teammates Cam Akers and Jordan Hicks, who has torn both of his Achilles before – came back as good if not better than before.

“I do believe there’s, probably, my best football still up ahead of me. But I gotta go prove that with the way I heal up and then with the way I play up ahead,” Cousins said. “The game is so much mental, and it’s so much on past experiences.”

“I’ve heard Tom Brady comment, … ‘I’ve spent my whole life in football to get to this point where I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times,'” Cousins said. “It’d be a shame if I’m the best version of myself but my arm can no longer do it. … Because the mental side of it, and even the emotional, is the best it’s ever been.”

Cousins again pointed to the “experience factor” and the reps that he has under his belt.

https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-vikings/cousins-future-contract-injury-brady-rodgers/


All of that sounds so rehearsed and agent created. He may be the best QB ever.....at getting paid. That's what he's the best at. That wouldn't bother me at all if he played to the level of his pay. He doesn't. Never has.

He quotes Brady. I remember when Brady talked about striving for perfection and Belichick told him that wasn't enough, he said you need to expect perfection. Not a subtle difference. He played that way. Gronkowski, Edelman, White and a dozen of others got sucked into the mindset of a winner. He was a leader. He was the boss. Even Gronkowski figured out it's best to do what Brady says. In my opinion, Brady's best attribute was his ability to lead.

Cousins isn't cut from that same cloth. He's childlike in some ways. He needs his teammates to like him. Hopefully, soon, somebody will take charge of this team. It won't be Cousins. I'm doubting it will ever be Kevin (that's for Todd).




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2023 5:44:15 AM)

Just draft a 1st rd qb and put Cousins in the rearview mirror.




Phil Riewer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2023 10:04:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times
too bad he hasn't seen clocking it that many times.....

Hey, at least he knows how to throw short of the sticks to end the season.
Simply put, he sounds like a desperate 12 year veteran coming off a major injury without a contract.


I will call it the Flacco affect; it maybe the opposite (teams wanting him)....the limit or holdup is always the salary. MN isn't the only team that wanted him before--he will have suitors again.

Flacco gets 70k a win in addition to his salary---put in those kind of stipulations and I wouldn't mind paying kirk over 30 million if and only if he wins the super bowl.


Remember that one time when Flacco won a Super Bowl, and had arguably the best postseason a QB has ever had?


He was in a contract year if I remember correctly.




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2023 1:44:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
I know the defenses, I know the blitzes, I know the checks, I’ve seen them all that many times
too bad he hasn't seen clocking it that many times.....

Hey, at least he knows how to throw short of the sticks to end the season.
Simply put, he sounds like a desperate 12 year veteran coming off a major injury without a contract.


I will call it the Flacco affect; it maybe the opposite (teams wanting him)....the limit or holdup is always the salary. MN isn't the only team that wanted him before--he will have suitors again.

Flacco gets 70k a win in addition to his salary---put in those kind of stipulations and I wouldn't mind paying kirk over 30 million if and only if he wins the super bowl.


Remember that one time when Flacco won a Super Bowl, and had arguably the best postseason a QB has ever had?


He was in a contract year if I remember correctly.

Thats right. 6 playoffs, 3 AFC Championship games and one SB win / MVP …

unlike your boy, those tight bastard Ravens made Flacco earn that filthy rich contract.




David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2023 2:05:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2
He may be the best QB ever.....at getting paid. That's what he's the best at.


100%. Maybe the most mercenary player ever in the NFL regarding contracts. And not just with us. He did the same maximizing value with Washington.

Its funny because its the polar opposite of his public persona.




Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/21/2023 3:02:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2
He may be the best QB ever.....at getting paid. That's what he's the best at.


100%. Maybe the most mercenary player ever in the NFL regarding contracts. And not just with us. He did the same maximizing value with Washington.

Its funny because its the polar opposite of his public persona.



Not that I disagree with what you say but I have a bit of a different take on it living in DC at the time. Like the franchise or not (terrible owner, generally crap for 20 years ect) they have a very rabid fanbase. Almost as annoying as the Cowboys. I mention it because it was talked about to death.

When he took over for RG3 their GM crapped all over him. It was the weirdest form of disrespect I've ever seen. He did nothing wrong but it was like the GM was crapping on him because the RG3 situation was handled so poorly. Like that was somehow "KC's fault" because he was playing pretty well and made the RG3 pick look so bad.

The media and the fans started calling it out and it just got worse. It got to the point where, every time he was asked about him in public, the GM referred to him as 'Kurt". The first couple times people wondered if he didn't know his real name but it became clear he was doing it on purpose.

When KC's was up for the tag he bet on himself to spite the GM. It worked and he's been doing it ever since. It's one of the things I really respect about him. It's just an opinion but I think if he was treated "normally" he wouldn't be so ruthless now.




ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/22/2023 4:17:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2
He may be the best QB ever.....at getting paid. That's what he's the best at.


100%. Maybe the most mercenary player ever in the NFL regarding contracts. And not just with us. He did the same maximizing value with Washington.

Its funny because its the polar opposite of his public persona.



Not that I disagree with what you say but I have a bit of a different take on it living in DC at the time. Like the franchise or not (terrible owner, generally crap for 20 years ect) they have a very rabid fanbase. Almost as annoying as the Cowboys. I mention it because it was talked about to death.

When he took over for RG3 their GM crapped all over him. It was the weirdest form of disrespect I've ever seen. He did nothing wrong but it was like the GM was crapping on him because the RG3 situation was handled so poorly. Like that was somehow "KC's fault" because he was playing pretty well and made the RG3 pick look so bad.

The media and the fans started calling it out and it just got worse. It got to the point where, every time he was asked about him in public, the GM referred to him as 'Kurt". The first couple times people wondered if he didn't know his real name but it became clear he was doing it on purpose.

When KC's was up for the tag he bet on himself to spite the GM. It worked and he's been doing it ever since. It's one of the things I really respect about him. It's just an opinion but I think if he was treated "normally" he wouldn't be so ruthless now.



I remember all of that going on....what an asshole that gm is/was - the players' union should have come down on him...he paid cousins franchise tag money, and then franchise-2nd level before allowing him to split....


projected 2024 franchise tag qb: $36mm...for cousins, it being his 3rd time - $62.2mm = great value = let's do it!....





.




Bill Jandro -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/22/2023 6:28:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2
He may be the best QB ever.....at getting paid. That's what he's the best at.


100%. Maybe the most mercenary player ever in the NFL regarding contracts. And not just with us. He did the same maximizing value with Washington.

Its funny because its the polar opposite of his public persona.



Not that I disagree with what you say but I have a bit of a different take on it living in DC at the time. Like the franchise or not (terrible owner, generally crap for 20 years ect) they have a very rabid fanbase. Almost as annoying as the Cowboys. I mention it because it was talked about to death.

When he took over for RG3 their GM crapped all over him. It was the weirdest form of disrespect I've ever seen. He did nothing wrong but it was like the GM was crapping on him because the RG3 situation was handled so poorly. Like that was somehow "KC's fault" because he was playing pretty well and made the RG3 pick look so bad.

The media and the fans started calling it out and it just got worse. It got to the point where, every time he was asked about him in public, the GM referred to him as 'Kurt". The first couple times people wondered if he didn't know his real name but it became clear he was doing it on purpose.

When KC's was up for the tag he bet on himself to spite the GM. It worked and he's been doing it ever since. It's one of the things I really respect about him. It's just an opinion but I think if he was treated "normally" he wouldn't be so ruthless now.

How petty for a person in such a high level position. I was going to ask who on earth would hire such a flawed individual to run their franchise and then I pictured Daniel Snyders ugly mug in my head. It takes a puke to hire a puke i suppose.




Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/22/2023 8:11:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2
He may be the best QB ever.....at getting paid. That's what he's the best at.


100%. Maybe the most mercenary player ever in the NFL regarding contracts. And not just with us. He did the same maximizing value with Washington.

Its funny because its the polar opposite of his public persona.



Not that I disagree with what you say but I have a bit of a different take on it living in DC at the time. Like the franchise or not (terrible owner, generally crap for 20 years ect) they have a very rabid fanbase. Almost as annoying as the Cowboys. I mention it because it was talked about to death.

When he took over for RG3 their GM crapped all over him. It was the weirdest form of disrespect I've ever seen. He did nothing wrong but it was like the GM was crapping on him because the RG3 situation was handled so poorly. Like that was somehow "KC's fault" because he was playing pretty well and made the RG3 pick look so bad.

The media and the fans started calling it out and it just got worse. It got to the point where, every time he was asked about him in public, the GM referred to him as 'Kurt". The first couple times people wondered if he didn't know his real name but it became clear he was doing it on purpose.

When KC's was up for the tag he bet on himself to spite the GM. It worked and he's been doing it ever since. It's one of the things I really respect about him. It's just an opinion but I think if he was treated "normally" he wouldn't be so ruthless now.

Yes he was not treated well in WASH by the GM but he was paid millions and still given every opportunity to succeed. Not exactly the same lousy boss situation that a lot of people deal with.

I respect Cousins for playing his cards the right way.

He got the red carpet treatment here though … Spielman rubbed him down with jojoba, almond and coconut oils to get him to sign a groundbreaking deal based on projection - not success.

For someone biased like myself, the playing his cards right in WASH evolved to gaming the system in MIN with guaranteed extension / dead money … without producing what he was paid for and continuing to push for cap wrecking deals … the WASH vs MIN deals seem vastly more cynical and, as you say, ruthless.




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