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Mark Anderson -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 11:46:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes It was the funnest thing that could have happened for fans … It was the worst thing that could have happened to a bunch of newbies trying to build a franchise … Maxing out on luck in 2022. It has stunted our development. Too much belief in what we accomplished last year … too much self-reinforcement from 13-4 and not enough concern for the mediocre team that entered the playoffs. Even though the only real change we made from 2021 is the one thing that has improved this year, Flores. Otherwise, everything else is status quo. Stick to the plan. Play it close and call it conservative regardless of the opponent or situation. It worked last year on paper … oops injury, oops we aren’t playing teams with 3rd string QBs (all the time), oops didn’t get favorable calls, etc etc … didn’t see that coming / didn’t prepare or alter course or put contingencies in place. Doubling down this year on Cousins and Mullens, adding a fifth round pick - couldn’t be any more short-sighted or dumb for an organization’s standard operating 2 to 3 or 4 year plan. Thats a year by year placeholder plan. Like everybody, I’m going to hope that Hall has something. Which again is staking the franchise on getting lucky. Getting tired of this. For whatever reason, KOC is a better coach (and playcaller)when he is behind. Like last year. He knew he had to keep the pedal floored(for the most part) because of the sieve we had on defense. Flores competent defense has changed him. Way too conservative this year.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 11:59:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes It was the funnest thing that could have happened for fans … It was the worst thing that could have happened to a bunch of newbies trying to build a franchise … Maxing out on luck in 2022. It has stunted our development. Too much belief in what we accomplished last year … too much self-reinforcement from 13-4 and not enough concern for the mediocre team that entered the playoffs. Even though the only real change we made from 2021 is the one thing that has improved this year, Flores. Otherwise, everything else is status quo. Stick to the plan. Play it close and call it conservative regardless of the opponent or situation. It worked last year on paper … oops injury, oops we aren’t playing teams with 3rd string QBs (all the time), oops didn’t get favorable calls, etc etc … didn’t see that coming / didn’t prepare or alter course or put contingencies in place. Doubling down this year on Cousins and Mullens, adding a fifth round pick - couldn’t be any more short-sighted or dumb for an organization’s standard operating 2 to 3 or 4 year plan. Thats a year by year placeholder plan. Like everybody, I’m going to hope that Hall has something. Which again is staking the franchise on getting lucky. Getting tired of this. Maybe Levis turns into something. But, we may have dodged a bullet by skipping out on QBs last year and drafting one this year. Should have done both and more, drafted someone year one plus Hall and/or 3rd or 4th rd this year. Not first rd every year obviously ... that doesn't work. But I sure as hell am going to over-emphasize the value of the position, not under-value it, until I hit on a potential or actual long term solution. Also, the situation a player is drafted into has as much to do with their development as anything else. Its hard to say if a Levis or Willis or Pickett or Ridder would have played, developed better under our staff. Probably not. But a lot of players do better on their second teams ... they get some experience, mature ... but also find themselves in a place better suited to their traits. Its not impossible to have better luck with a prospect than a different team is having. I think. Any way you look at it, wouldn't the potential of a Levis be better than having Mullens as our backup? Maybe we dodged a bullet yes, maybe Levis is horrible – that's in retrospect ... I'm talking about the decisions we make in real time. The issue was not risking a pick on Ponder, it was not recognizing what you had in Ponder soon enough in the process. IMO Maybe we just didnt like Levis ... ok. I buy that. Its a crapshoot though. You really never know until they're on the practice field, in your meeting rooms, taking snaps in games. Our long term QB plan is to put all of our QB eggs are in the Cousins Mullens basket, one year deals at a time! No chance for developing anything there. A fifth rd pick is a lottery ticket ... how about we pray for something there after our 1st or 2nd or 3rd rounder fails.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 12:05:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M Just read and maybe missed it here but I guess we ignored Joe Flacco’s call when he showed interest in joining the team after Cousins went down. Man we have shit leadership. I'll give them a break on this one. Flacco was like 3-14 in his last 17 games he started(before Cleveland). I could just hear the moans and rants in here about another immobile QB. But, for right now, Stefanski>KOC Fair enough. You gave me better perspective. Yeah ... I did not mind taking a chance on Dobbs at all ... risking on the potential of a younger player as opposed to trying to squeeze something out what seems like an empty tank.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 12:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Todd M quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes Getting tired of this. Great post. You really help fill the void with quality posting. Umm ... thanks for approving of my insane long-winded ranting.

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 12:23:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson For whatever reason, KOC is a better coach (and playcaller)when he is behind. Like last year. He knew he had to keep the pedal floored(for the most part) because of the sieve we had on defense. Flores competent defense has changed him. Way too conservative this year. KOC is super conservative by nature. Which is too bad, because it does way more harm than good.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 12:57:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson For whatever reason, KOC is a better coach (and playcaller)when he is behind. Like last year. He knew he had to keep the pedal floored(for the most part) because of the sieve we had on defense. Flores competent defense has changed him. Way too conservative this year. KOC is super conservative by nature. Which is too bad, because it does way more harm than good. Which is bizarre because of him being quoted when they fired Donatell. Paraphrasing but he essentially said he wanted someone more aligned to his style of play. I'm not sure he used the word aggressive but that was the takeaway from everyone who read it.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 12:59:59 PM)
Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs?

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 1:02:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson For whatever reason, KOC is a better coach (and playcaller)when he is behind. Like last year. He knew he had to keep the pedal floored(for the most part) because of the sieve we had on defense. Flores competent defense has changed him. Way too conservative this year. KOC is super conservative by nature. Which is too bad, because it does way more harm than good. Which is bizarre because of him being quoted when they fired Donatell. Paraphrasing but he essentially said he wanted someone more aligned to his style of play. I'm not sure he used the word aggressive but that was the takeaway from everyone who read it. Maybe he meant a good defense so he could be conservative?

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 1:03:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs? I would love to know their rankings. Obviously we'll never know. They won't publish it before the draft and if they take a guy that "isn't there guy" they'll lie and say he was. If we end up with Nix I'm going to lose my collective shit.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 1:04:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson For whatever reason, KOC is a better coach (and playcaller)when he is behind. Like last year. He knew he had to keep the pedal floored(for the most part) because of the sieve we had on defense. Flores competent defense has changed him. Way too conservative this year. KOC is super conservative by nature. Which is too bad, because it does way more harm than good. Which is bizarre because of him being quoted when they fired Donatell. Paraphrasing but he essentially said he wanted someone more aligned to his style of play. I'm not sure he used the word aggressive but that was the takeaway from everyone who read it. He was pissed Donnatell's defense was set with 20 seconds to go on the play clock. Naturally, that was easy to do with just one defensive set in the playbook. The only time there was a pre-snap adjustment was when Donnatell yelled for the DBs to get further back.

Jeff Jesser -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 1:04:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson For whatever reason, KOC is a better coach (and playcaller)when he is behind. Like last year. He knew he had to keep the pedal floored(for the most part) because of the sieve we had on defense. Flores competent defense has changed him. Way too conservative this year. KOC is super conservative by nature. Which is too bad, because it does way more harm than good. Which is bizarre because of him being quoted when they fired Donatell. Paraphrasing but he essentially said he wanted someone more aligned to his style of play. I'm not sure he used the word aggressive but that was the takeaway from everyone who read it. Maybe he meant a good defense so he could be conservative? It's possible, I guess. Didn't he flat out say Donatell needed to be more aggressive though during the season?

David Levine -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 1:06:37 PM)
Sure. He wanted the defense more aggressive so he didn’t have to be…

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 1:10:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs? I would love to know their rankings. Obviously we'll never know. They won't publish it before the draft and if they take a guy that "isn't there guy" they'll lie and say he was. If we end up with Nix I'm going to lose my collective shit. If they don't like the QBs left on the board, take CB Kool-Aid McKinstry and call it a day.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 2:10:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs? It seems to me like they have passed the point of being finicky choosy to get QB lucky. Like me picking lotto numbers based on the final ages of my six dead dogs since childhood. Sure, makes perfect sense … does it get me any closer to winning? Time to adjust the spray nozzle to maximum wad size and let it rip. Make the QB draft picks rain.

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 2:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: David Levine quote: ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson For whatever reason, KOC is a better coach (and playcaller)when he is behind. Like last year. He knew he had to keep the pedal floored(for the most part) because of the sieve we had on defense. Flores competent defense has changed him. Way too conservative this year. KOC is super conservative by nature. Which is too bad, because it does way more harm than good. KOC is SAWFT!

bstinger -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 2:40:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs? It seems to me like they have passed the point of being finicky choosy to get QB lucky. Like me picking lotto numbers based on the final ages of my six dead dogs since childhood. Sure, makes perfect sense … does it get me any closer to winning? Time to adjust the spray nozzle to maximum wad size and let it rip. Make the QB draft picks rain. Disagree. Don't force picks out of desperation. Pick a guy you really want. If you have to overpay to move up and get that guy, go for it. But don't draft a dud just for the sake of making a pick.

Tom Sykes -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 3:05:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs? It seems to me like they have passed the point of being finicky choosy to get QB lucky. Like me picking lotto numbers based on the final ages of my six dead dogs since childhood. Sure, makes perfect sense … does it get me any closer to winning? Time to adjust the spray nozzle to maximum wad size and let it rip. Make the QB draft picks rain. Disagree. Don't force picks out of desperation. Pick a guy you really want. If you have to overpay to move up and get that guy, go for it. But don't draft a dud just for the sake of making a pick. I’m exaggerating. So are you … we are desperate to begin with, not forcing anything. Nobody is going to take a guy they dont like, nobody drafts a dud intentionally. When the talent is clear cut, dont reach for need. Clearly. All things equal, with multiple options of similar talent, need absolutely matters. My thing is … we are not only desperate but we suck at drafting. We need to invest resources. That’s all I ask.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 4:45:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs? It seems to me like they have passed the point of being finicky choosy to get QB lucky. Like me picking lotto numbers based on the final ages of my six dead dogs since childhood. Sure, makes perfect sense … does it get me any closer to winning? Time to adjust the spray nozzle to maximum wad size and let it rip. Make the QB draft picks rain. Disagree. Don't force picks out of desperation. Pick a guy you really want. If you have to overpay to move up and get that guy, go for it. But don't draft a dud just for the sake of making a pick. I’m exaggerating. So are you … we are desperate to begin with, not forcing anything. Nobody is going to take a guy they dont like, nobody drafts a dud intentionally. When the talent is clear cut, dont reach for need. Clearly. All things equal, with multiple options of similar talent, need absolutely matters. My thing is … we are not only desperate but we suck at drafting. We need to invest resources. That’s all I ask. there have been 13 trades for the 1st overall pick since 1967, and it looks like no team has ever paid even three 1st rounders for the first overall - they have paid as many as two 1st and several 2nds though.... the most recent.... Bears had the 1st overall - Panthers 2023 Bears received DJ Moore 1st on draft year #9 2nd on draft year #61 1st next year 2nd two years later Titans had the 1st overall - Rams 2016 Titans received 1st on draft year #15 2nd on draft year 2nd on draft year 3rd on draft year 1st next year 3rd next year I would gladly pay three 1st, or even more with trade-back picks - all for the #1 quarterback on our list.... i think that one of the keys is not to get financially bogged down on a veteran quarterback this year, i.e., cousins or whoever...we'll have some money for free agents, and with some nifty draft picking we could be reloaded and ready to go in 2025....

twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 4:54:40 PM)
Is anyone watching the Barstool Sports Arizona Bowl on CW? What is this? The announcers are absolute clowns. One of the guys just said "Let me tell you something...." And then it clearly got blocked for FCC purposes, I assume, as everything went silent. They come back all laughing and yakking it up. There is zero professionalism in this broadcast.

ratoppenheimer -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 4:58:34 PM)
. . here are a few from earlier years.... 1967 New Orleans Saints to Baltimore Colts Player picked at No. 1: DT Bubba Smith Saints received: QB Gary Cuozzo 1967 New York Giants to Minnesota Vikings Player picked at No. 1: T Ron Yary Giants received: QB Fran Tarkenton Vikings received: 1968 No. 1 pick (Yary), 1967 first-round pick (No. 2, RB Clint Jones), 1967 second-round pick (No. 28., WR Bob Grim) and 1969 second-round pick (No. 39, OL Ed White)

twinsfan -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 5:26:16 PM)
One of the announcers just said that tackling by the facemask should be legal.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 7:11:29 PM)
For those who like 2:1 ratios: Minnesota Vikings receiver Justin Jefferson has caught four touchdown passes during an injury-plagued season. The NFL has now fined him for post-score celebrations on two of them. The league announced Saturday that it had fined Jefferson $13,659 for unsportsmanlike conduct after a 26-yard scoring reception with 37 seconds remaining in the second quarter of a 30-24 loss to the Detroit Lions. After, Jefferson briefly pointed his fingers like a gun, a violation of an NFL rule that prohibits "any violent gesture." In Week 4, Jefferson was fined $10,927 for using the "too small" celebration -- which the NFL considers taunting -- after a 30-yard touchdown catch.

Bill Johanesen -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 7:18:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: bstinger quote: ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes quote: ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen Have always wondered if they chose Addison (or targeted a WR) in the 1st round as a hedge against JJ leaving via trade due to cap concerns or potentially just wanting out. At the time, Thielen had been released and Osborn was/is merely an ok #3 WR approaching free agency. QB could have been an option or need but there wasn't much to choose from. This is the year to get a QB. But absent a costly trade up, how far down the QB list are they willing to go considering they likely are not sold on every one of, say, the top 6-8 QBs? It seems to me like they have passed the point of being finicky choosy to get QB lucky. Like me picking lotto numbers based on the final ages of my six dead dogs since childhood. Sure, makes perfect sense … does it get me any closer to winning? Time to adjust the spray nozzle to maximum wad size and let it rip. Make the QB draft picks rain. Disagree. Don't force picks out of desperation. Pick a guy you really want. If you have to overpay to move up and get that guy, go for it. But don't draft a dud just for the sake of making a pick. I’m exaggerating. So are you … we are desperate to begin with, not forcing anything. Nobody is going to take a guy they dont like, nobody drafts a dud intentionally. When the talent is clear cut, dont reach for need. Clearly. All things equal, with multiple options of similar talent, need absolutely matters. My thing is … we are not only desperate but we suck at drafting. We need to invest resources. That’s all I ask. there have been 13 trades for the 1st overall pick since 1967, and it looks like no team has ever paid even three 1st rounders for the first overall - they have paid as many as two 1st and several 2nds though.... the most recent.... Bears had the 1st overall - Panthers 2023 Bears received DJ Moore 1st on draft year #9 2nd on draft year #61 1st next year 2nd two years later Titans had the 1st overall - Rams 2016 Titans received 1st on draft year #15 2nd on draft year 2nd on draft year 3rd on draft year 1st next year 3rd next year I would gladly pay three 1st, or even more with trade-back picks - all for the #1 quarterback on our list.... i think that one of the keys is not to get financially bogged down on a veteran quarterback this year, i.e., cousins or whoever...we'll have some money for free agents, and with some nifty draft picking we could be reloaded and ready to go in 2025.... Beyond the #1 overall: The Redskins gave up 3 first rounders and a second rounder for the #2 overall (RG III). The 49ers gave up 3 first rounders and a third rounder for the #3 overall (Trey Lance).

MDK -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 7:57:15 PM)
Flacco contacted the vikings org when Cousins went down Wait, they're not an organization They're a Motley Crew

Daniel Lee Young -> RE: General Vikes Talk (12/30/2023 8:54:29 PM)
I don’t think we go anywhere or do anything but ssdd, until we find a head coach who can adjust on the fly.. it sucks that management put All the season expectations into KFC’ s lap and wallet.. “He never gets injured for anything serious…” Wel.. you QB backup plan was mullet, minion and a panic trade for a guy that was exposed after a few games.. kAM, blew his first draft and it’s not even close.. KOC got a pass on his shit offensive playcalling by sheer record setting improbable wins.. Now this team is at a crossroads, and the path down KFC mediocrity lane, is looking like the “safetdance” that KAM will allow KOC to take. I expect nothing G until cap sucking medijesus boy hits the ****ing road in to his next victim/ team.

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